The whole "confidence"/ "self-worth" thing

[allcity]

Well, you've already decided that the things you want are unattainable for you, so the real question is have you truly exhausted all opportunities to improve your situation and explored all avenues that are available to you, to help you become 'better' at dating and finding love/friends etc?

 

If the answer is yes, then you just need to find peace with your life as it is, while either continuing to try creating the life you want, or giving up entirely on those dreams and choosing to find happiness with your life as it is. It's not easy to do, but nothing worthwhile ever is (pardon the cliché).

 

But if the answer is no (which I'm totally assuming it is, based on your other threads), then you still have every opportunity to create the life you want, IF you choose to work for it and put 100% effort into changing things for yourself. Dreams are made…they very rarely just fall into our laps!

 

Just take a look at the pathetically long line of so-called men on this forum that spend day after day here bleating away about how they deserve a woman in their life and how they're such great guys and how women are all to blame for being so blind as to not see how great they are. Then take a look at all the wonderful women that are out there and are struggling to find a good man to fall in love with.

 

I've known many great women that would love to fall in love and yet they would STILL rather be alone and lonely than be with a 'man' that spends his life whining and blaming everyone else for the failures that they have created for themselves, while simultaneously doing absolutely nothing to change things.

 

One guy here recently even went as far as to say he sometimes questions whether women even like men at all, since none of them want to go out with him. The mind boggles at that level of deluded, self-obsessed denial. Even in the threads they create here they still manage to repulse women with their attitudes and beliefs and yet they still think of themselves as 'good men'. Bizarre!

 

Your life is in your control and your dreams are entirely possible for you. Only once you've put 100% into trying everything you can without success, can you say that you're undesirable and unable to find love. And even then you can still lead a happy and fulfilling life. It's your choice!

 

However, if a person chooses to avoid all options and advice available to them that could improve their life, while feeling frustrated and sad that their dreams haven't just magically fallen into their lap, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

If the worst of your problems are a lack of friends and no one that wants to sleep with you right now, then you're doing a lot better than many people. And your dreams are far from being out of your reach!

 

Heck, I've been called gorgeous and the 'perfect man' many times over and yet I've been single for ages too. Life's like that sometimes. You just have to keep working to achieve what you want, don't let yourself get floored by every bump in the road and don't EVER assume that anyone else has had it easy, until you know for sure that they didn't bust their butt to get what you think just magically came into their life.

[NorthDallas40]

If you do great things, but no one else cares what you do, how satisfying can it really be to do those things?

 

Sometimes you have to look at the long view.

 

You may spend 5 years doing great things that "nobody" cares about, then meet a girl who ends up being thoroughly impressed & attracted to you and your accomplishments.

 

But how would she feel if you had you done NONE of those "great things" during that time?

 

Unfortunately, nobody is GUARANTEED a relationship and nobody can control how other people feel about them. It's just a cold reality of life.

 

But the more you strive to be a healthy, stable, accomplished and good person with measurable achievements, the better your chances are of attracting a future partner, or even just a good social network.

 

So instead of impatiently wanting results RIGHT NOW, look at self-improvement as a longterm investment that will reward you in the future more fully the more you put into it.

[Batya33]

"Eh. I've actually tried e-mailing some places to set up something with a therapist, but I've hit a bit of a snag, because with my part time job, full time education, and part time internship, I can't seem to find an appointment that lines up right with my schedule."

 

People who believe in the importance of doing something find the time to do it.

 

 

"And I'm working on those other things,"

 

Well no, you're not. You're not seeing a therapist (or even actively looking for one), and you have yet in all your threads to spend more than a very few posts detailing what you are working on. And those very few posts were quite vague. So the impression is -no, you're not.

[lifesatrip]

Experiments like that only teach us that the average human being is too dumb and weak to not instinctively act like a herd animal, rather than use their own initiative and independent thought.

 

This thread and the advice in it is suggesting exactly the opposite of that kind of thinking, as that kind of thinking is what got MattW here in the first place.

 

My point was that "independent thought" can only get you so far. One might intellectually grasp the necessity for inner confidence, but that doesn't translate into the emotional experience of said confidence. Although it's popular opinion that confidence and self-perception is all about creating the right mindset from within, that is only half of the truth. Our sense of self is shaped by our inner thoughts and self determination, but it is also shaped by the image that is reflected back at us by other people. This doesn't mean that one can't mold oneself through self-determination, but the process is harder/more involved than just making the decision to do so. We have to understand the external forces that go into creating a sense of identity and strategically use those forces to create the desired result (sort of like a martial artist). This is harder and more involved than most people recognize. The attitude you expressed tends to leave the person suffering from low confidence thinking they are weak for not being able to fix their confidence problem, which obviously creates more of a problem. In reality the person is not weak, they are dealing with an issue that has very complex dynamics. The dynamics can be negotiated, but simplistic solutions only alienate the person and perpetuate the problem.

 

Also, I take issue with the idea that humans acting from their herd instinct are "weak" and "dumb." Humans are animals, and we won't escape that. The herd instinct is tied in with love, cooperation, empathy, etc, qualities that are undervalued in today's society. I'm not saying humans shouldn't be self-reflective and learn to be more self-determining, however I do think your comment about weakness reflects a societal bias which prizes "independence" and self-interest. Self interest is also a biological instinct, however it is rarely treated as such in this society. Instead it is seen as the ultimate "rationality," which really makes no sense when you consider that cooperation as opposed to pure self-interest is necessary to human survival and fulfillment and is therefore is extremely rational. [End of tangent].

[allcity]

I think you might have missed the points of my posts. I didn't say anything would be easy and there were no simplistic solutions offered (unless you think of working to rebuild your confidence from the ground up despite what others think of you as being 'simple').

 

I also didn't say that all human behaviour based on a herd instinct is 'weak' and 'dumb'. Put it into context first. You referenced the Stanford Prison experiment…not really an experiment that showed the best human behaviour or showed us as being particularly strong, smart or moral.

 

Building self-confidence can be done without others' approval. It is very hard to do but is also very worthwhile. It does take commitment. And it does all start with a simple decision to actively try and change your life for the better. In my experience at least.

[MattW]

Well, you've already decided that the things you want are unattainable for you, so the real question is have you truly exhausted all opportunities to improve your situation and explored all avenues that are available to you, to help you become 'better' at dating and finding love/friends etc?

 

How should I know? What can I really do? It doesn't matter how many activities I do, or what groups I join, because even if I manage to meet people, it doesn't mean we'll become friends (and by "friends", I mean people I talk to and hang out with outside of the activity/ group I know them from), it doesn't mean I'll actually develop a social circle. Since I was 19, I was taking various classes at community college, working at a job where I come into contact with the general public all the time, now I've started at a new school, I'm interning, and after all this time, after all these "groups" I've been a part of over the last five or so years, I don't have one actual "friend", I have no social circle, I have no romantic prospects.

 

Again, that's why I feel bad about myself, because after all this time, after all the people I've met, after everything, I still haven't been "wanted" or "desired" in any way by anyone. I'm not worth anything to anyone.

 

If the answer is yes, then you just need to find peace with your life as it is, while either continuing to try creating the life you want, or giving up entirely on those dreams and choosing to find happiness with your life as it is. It's not easy to do, but nothing worthwhile ever is (pardon the cliché).

 

Can I be completely honest? If I could somehow see into the future and know for a fact that I will be completely alone for the remainder of my life, I would give serious consideration to ending my life right now. I just don't think that's something I could ever truly make peace with. I want it too much, it would just be too sad to me if I can't ever have it.

 

Sometimes you have to look at the long view.

 

You may spend 5 years doing great things that "nobody" cares about, then meet a girl who ends up being thoroughly impressed & attracted to you and your accomplishments.

 

But the more you strive to be a healthy, stable, accomplished and good person with measurable achievements, the better your chances are of attracting a future partner, or even just a good social network.

 

So instead of impatiently wanting results RIGHT NOW, look at self-improvement as a longterm investment that will reward you in the future more fully the more you put into it.

 

I understand, but like I've been saying, it's not like I've been doing absolutely nothing up to now. In some shape or form, I've been trying to work on myself and work towards my goals for several years. Granted, I may have made a lot of wrong decisions, and wasted a lot of time, and whatnot, but I've been trying in some way. I don't necessarily expect to have everything right here and right now, but after everything I've been through, it's both frustrating and depressing to see that I've made zero progress towards having people in my life. I should have made at least SOME progress by now. How much longer do I have to hold out? How many more hoops do I have to jump through?

 

"Eh. I've actually tried e-mailing some places to set up something with a therapist, but I've hit a bit of a snag, because with my part time job, full time education, and part time internship, I can't seem to find an appointment that lines up right with my schedule."

 

People who believe in the importance of doing something find the time to do it.

 

I understand that, but what am I supposed to do? I can't exactly blow off work or school, and I don't want to mess things up with my internship by taking time away from it. It's unfortunate, for the sake of my mental health, but I want to have a good career, something I enjoy, and I have to devote time to that.

[Sportster2005]

"What other people think of me is none of my business."

Dr. Wayne Dwyer

 

Live it.

[blueidealist24]

 

Can I be completely honest? If I could somehow see into the future and know for a fact that I will be completely alone for the remainder of my life, I would give serious consideration to ending my life right now. I just don't think that's something I could ever truly make peace with. I want it too much, it would just be too sad to me if I can't ever have it.

 

 

You don't know that though. Next year you could be posting here while in your first relationship. Even people who don't have close friends sometimes are able to get into relationships, due to meeting someone randomly or even online. I know you said the online dating hasn't worked so far, but you might "strike gold" after many messages.

 

Just because it isn't happening now doesn't mean it won't happen. When I was 15 I thought I would never be able to get a job, and I've had several jobs. I also thought when I was around that age that I would never make out with a guy, and then I did.

[Rosti87]

 

Eh. I've actually tried e-mailing some places to set up something with a therapist, but I've hit a bit of a snag, because with my part time job, full time education, and part time internship, I can't seem to find an appointment that lines up right with my schedule.

 

Most universities have psychiatric counseling centers. The fees are not huge either. Make the time.

 

The amount of time you spend on this forum in a weeks time probably would add up to at least an hour. A counseling session is only an hour long. I'm quite sure you can make arrangements with either your job or internship for an hour's worth of counseling.

[Batya33]

"I understand that, but what am I supposed to do? I can't exactly blow off work or school, and I don't want to mess things up with my internship by taking time away from it. It's unfortunate, for the sake of my mental health, but I want to have a good career, something I enjoy, and I have to devote time to that."

 

Then you don't understand, at all, what I wrote, or you do but you're choosing to ignore it. Many people far far busier than you make time for therapy or anything else that's really important to them. You just like to say you "tried" and then go back to complaining. Not healthy behavior.

[MattW]

You don't know that though. Next year you could be posting here while in your first relationship. Even people who don't have close friends sometimes are able to get into relationships, due to meeting someone randomly or even online. I know you said the online dating hasn't worked so far, but you might "strike gold" after many messages.

 

Just because it isn't happening now doesn't mean it won't happen. When I was 15 I thought I would never be able to get a job, and I've had several jobs. I also thought when I was around that age that I would never make out with a guy, and then I did.

 

Yeah, but that's been the story of my life for so many years now. Things could be different 12 months from now. But a year ago, things also "could've been different from 12 months from now". Same for the year before, and the year before that, and so on and so forth. And yet, that never works out. Things don't happen "serendipitously" for me like that. It's always just the same. Regardless of what I do, what I try, all roads tend to lead back to the same place. I'm just not wanted by people, anyone, not wanted by the world.

 

The amount of time you spend on this forum in a weeks time probably would add up to at least an hour. A counseling session is only an hour long. I'm quite sure you can make arrangements with either your job or internship for an hour's worth of counseling.

 

Then you don't understand, at all, what I wrote, or you do but you're choosing to ignore it. Many people far far busier than you make time for therapy or anything else that's really important to them. You just like to say you "tried" and then go back to complaining. Not healthy behavior.

 

I think it's a little unfair to think I'm using my schedule as an excuse. As it is, I feel a bit overwhelmed. I've had to give up hobbies and whatnot just to accommodate the schedule I have now. It's stressful and it's a lot of work, but I'm powering through it because once I finish school and acquire experience through interning, I can finally start pursuing a proper career.

 

Like I said before, too, the nearest therapists to me seem to be about a half hour away, so even if I only spend an hour with them per session, that's also an hour worth of driving back and forth, and if I have to shop around for other therapists, that distance is only going to go up.

 

I'm not "giving up" on it, I just can't work it into my schedule yet. I'm already juggling so many things, and I'm not the best at time management, so it's just hard to find time for anything else.

 

Still, I mean... do you guys really think therapy can help me? I feel like I would be a tough case for even the best therapists in the world to handle, and I'd imagine the people at the top of their profession aren't exactly local at all to me. v_v

[allcity]

No offence man, but I'd hazard a guess that you're far from being a particularly challenging case for a therapist. And you can work it into your schedule. You just don't want to, or you'd have found a way already.

 

Therapists deal with people with serious psychological problems, on a daily basis. And unless you have some very dark secrets to hide, the odds are that your worst problems at the moment are a lack of confidence, a fear of being alone and a tendency to procrastinate and sometimes over-dramatize fairly minor issues. Not really the kind of stuff that puts the average mental health professional to the test.

 

You wont know until you try, though, will you? We can't say whether it will work. Only you can find out for yourself. So stop finding reasons why you can't do it and just give it a try.

 

I'd also suggest taking women and relationships off such a high pedestal. I know you're only 24 but to say that you'd consider suicide rather than accept that you may never have a relationship is pretty ridiculous and is clearly very immature, attention-seeking behaviour, since you have no frame of reference yet.

 

You'd rather die than accept that you may never have something that you haven't even tried yet to even see if you enjoy it?!

 

Long-term relationships can be great but they also take a lot of effort, a lot of patience, a lot of compromise, and a lot of willingness to commit to ongoing self-development in order to keep them fresh and functioning, so you might want to reserve judgement on whether your life is worth living without a relationship, until you've actually experienced the reality of one, rather than your dream idea of how a relationship is.

 

Relationships can be incredibly fulfilling if both people are functioning adults, but they can be a total nightmare if one or both people aren't.

 

You need to lose the illusion that a relationship will complete you and make you happy, as while a good relationship can be a wonderful complement to an already successful and happy life, it won't fix your problems or make you happy long-term. Those are issues that only you can fix. And make no mistake, a bad relationship can quickly make you yearn for the days when you were single again.

[MattW]

I'm talking more about my stubbornness and inability to improve my life.

[allcity]

Well your first hurdle is to actually get through the therapists' door and onto their couch. Tackle that hurdle first and then see where they can get you from there.

 

What really needs to sink in is that your life is very unlikely to change, unless you start taking active steps to change it. And that applies to all of us, not just you!

 

Since a life without a woman is apparently worthy of you committing suicide, I'd say that booking a therapist appointment right away and making the time to attend it would be a great start!

 

Change starts with a decision to stop procrastinating and to start being strong enough to be the man you want to be. So make that decision sooner rather than later.

[Wayfara]

If I could somehow see into the future and know for a fact that I will be completely alone for the remainder of my life, I would give serious consideration to ending my life right now.

 

You can't have any big passions in life if the only thing that gives you will to live is the hope of someone wanting you.

 

Still, I mean... do you guys really think therapy can help me? I feel like I would be a tough case for even the best therapists in the world to handle, and I'd imagine the people at the top of their profession aren't exactly local at all to me. v_v

 

What do you do if you get stranded on a desert island? Do you try to find food and water and build a shelter trying to survive until ship can find you? Or do you lay down and wait to die because there are no guarentees that a ship would making efforts useless anyway? Sometimes you have to do things on faith, it seems to me you are afraid of making efforts you don't know will result in successes. To get ahead you have to make efforts and many of the efforts will lead to nowhere (this is how you learn what efforts are worth doing), if you can't accept the risk of maybe making useless efforts you are going to be stuck where you are forever.

[penelope13]

Just out of curiosity: did you simply not see the question or are you choosing to ignore it?

 

Did you give any of the suggestions or websites from your last thread a serious try?

[MattW]

Since a life without a woman is apparently worthy of you committing suicide, I'd say that booking a therapist appointment right away and making the time to attend it would be a great start!

 

I meant a life without anyone, platonic OR romantic. That's where I'm at, that's where I've been, that's where I probably will be for a long time to come, and if I'm right, that's where I'll be for the remainder of my life.

 

Change starts with a decision to stop procrastinating and to start being strong enough to be the man you want to be. So make that decision sooner rather than later.

 

I think what I'm getting stuck on is the fact that there's no real sense of "karma" or "justice" in the way the world works. People can be horrible and get everything they want, and at the same time, people can be good and have miserable lives. People can be bad at their jobs and still get all the promotions and the special attention at work, while people can be great at what they do and go nowhere in their careers. Men can treat women horribly but still get more women than they could possibly need, while men who would be good partners are ignored or overlooked for one reason or another.

 

It just seems to me that it doesn't really matter what anyone does, and that's such a bleak realization, because what's the point of doing anything, then? I understand that what I'm doing right now isn't working for me, but that doesn't mean doing things differently will bring me success. Just the fact that I could do everything right and STILL end up alone and unhappy makes it extremely difficult for me to find the motivation to change or do anything.

 

Sometimes you have to do things on faith, it seems to me you are afraid of making efforts you don't know will result in successes.

 

I guess this is pretty accurate, then. Er, well, I don't know about "afraid". But it just seems pointless to me to bother with anything when the chances of them giving me the results I want are so incredibly low.

 

Just out of curiosity: did you simply not see the question or are you choosing to ignore it?

 

I missed it last time I was replying to a few posts at a time. I started on Luminosity a little while back, and I think I did the first lesson or so, then I just kept getting distracted by other things and forgetting to go back to it. They keep emailing me about the next set of lessons. I'll go back to it eventually, but at this point, I'll probably start over.

[The_Seeker]

Depends on your definition of confidence.

 

Too many people say "Confidence." Then people fake confidence. And wonder why they don't get the result they wanted.

 

My definition of confidence is being authentic who you are. If you know who you are, then you will have no problem being who you are. That only if you are being truthful and not harming people. There's a limit to confidence. You can be crying. People find people who cried weak. However, I find people who cried shows they are human beings that have emotions and aren't afraid to express. It depends a lot of variables.

 

As for self-worth, how do you want to be treated? If you treated people the way you wanted to be treated, then you will be treated the same. However we live in the world who don't follow that belief because "Respect has to be earned," then you let them go.

 

No matter what you do, you're not going to get EVERY person on this planet. It may work on someone but it doesn't work for everyone. Hence the term "authentic." If someone likes the way you are, then you will get that girl that likes the way you are.

 

If you come accross superficial, narrow-minded, trust me, you are never going to be happy because you weren't truly you in the first place as in with integrity and not harming people.

 

By harming, I mean physically harm. By integrity, I mean speaking the truth instead of being honest.

[penelope13]

I missed it last time I was replying to a few posts at a time. I started on Luminosity a little while back, and I think I did the first lesson or so, then I just kept getting distracted by other things and forgetting to go back to it. They keep emailing me about the next set of lessons. I'll go back to it eventually, but at this point, I'll probably start over.

 

That's great that you started - now train yourself to stick with it. You don't HAVE to do the sessions in the order they suggest, but you can individually pick up which game to play when, as often, whenever you want. The suggestions that they are emailing you are to try to ensure that you are training all different aspects of activity, but you are not locked into it.

[NorthDallas40]

OP, maybe you should read this thread. Its 24 pages are chock-full of encouragement, tough-love, and really good advice for someone like you:

 

 

 

Oh wait... I just realized who started that thread too.

 

 

[allcity]

This thread and the last are like watching a hamster on a wheel. Except at least the hamster enjoys himself and doesn't complain about the fact that he didn't get very far once he steps off.

[Wayfara]

Men can treat women horribly but still get more women than they could possibly need, while men who would be good partners are ignored or overlooked for one reason or another.

 

Some men can get away with treating women horribly and still get more women than they could possibly need because they have charms and radar for weak women. The average guy giving his female date a blue eye instead of a hug at the end of the evening probably won't. There are many unsuccessful bitter and lonely bad guys out there too, some jerks nobody likes because they don't have the charms or intelligence to get away with it. The second part I disagree with because if someone is being overlooked it's because there is no attraction and if there is no attraction they make a bad partner by default. Sometimes attraction can grow but until that happens (if it happens at all) someone you are not attracted to isn't someone you should get involved with.

 

it just seems pointless to me to bother with anything when the chances of them giving me the results I want are so incredibly low.

 

The chance of becoming a famous actor is incredibly low yet the actors who succeeded were those who tried anyway. The chance of getting a novel published is incredibly low yet published authors are those who tried anyway. The chance of inventing something new is incredibly low yet inventors are those who try anyway. Making an effort you at least have a chance, you can't win the lottery without playing.

 

Anyhow, I'm going to be blunt (sorry), needing other people valuing you in order to not considering suicide is being needy. Settling for anyone who wants you regardless of your own feeling (which you said you would in other threads) is being desperate. So, so far you have tried being needy, desperate and basing you self-worth on other people desiring you and it has yet not given you happiness or the success you want with women. You can make a choice, either to give desperation and neediness more time, hoping it will eventually make you happy and attract a woman, or you could try something new by finding more things to live for and valuing yourself independently of others. If it doesn't help you to find a partner it could still help you finding happiness, so what's harm?

 

Now I know you have said things on the note before that no one could possibly be able to notice your desperation in real life but how can you know for sure it's your good sides being overlooked and not your bad sides being noticed that is the problem until you really fix it? I'm not saying it's your desperation that is the problem, it could be, it could that the people living where you live are conditioned to like jerks more, it could be pure bad luck, it could be many things, the only way to find out is to cross them out one by one.

[Tearsbegone]

Anyone have any good advice on how to foster self worth and self love from within? I don't want to be dependent on others for how I view my self or worth. I want to love me and be ok when others don't. Books? Therapy? How does one do this.

 

Sorry to hijack...

[BrianH46]

Anyone have any good advice on how to foster self worth and self love from within? I don't want to be dependent on others for how I view my self or worth. I want to love me and be ok when others don't. Books? Therapy? How does one do this.

 

Sorry to hijack...

Books help a lot but internal conversation with yourself is needed, reflection is needed. The one and only thing you have any control over in this life is yourself. Repetition strategies also work well.

[HeatherB]

Anyone have any good advice on how to foster self worth and self love from within? I don't want to be dependent on others for how I view my self or worth. I want to love me and be ok when others don't. Books? Therapy? How does one do this.

 

Sorry to hijack...

You just have to be willing. What helped me to start was to remember back to when I was a little girl. I was so freaking adorable. How could anyone not love me then? So it was easy to love that version of myself. Then I kept in mind that I'm still that blameless innocent person, deep down. Go back as far as you need to to remember yourself as truly lovable. Then hold onto that feeling. Because it's true; it's part of you.

 

Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me...