The whole "confidence"/ "self-worth" thing

[Batya33]

"See, I've always had a pessimistic approach towards people, that people all suck, are stupid, selfish, hypocritical, untrustworthy, etc. For the last 2-3 years, I've been trying to learn to think differently about people, and see that that's not the case. This girl was a big point for my progress with this last year, because of how amazing she seemed. I just... I hate to even consider that she's hypocritical, and unprofessional, and lacks self respect, and does stupid things, because that just feeds back into my old pessimism about people."

 

Really? Based on one or even a group of people you're going to generalize to that extent? There's always excuses to be negative and take the easy way out. So what?

[blueidealist24]

Would the girl of your dreams be unattracted to you? Would the girl of your dreams lack self respect? Would the girl of your dreams say she hate sleazeballs yet jump at the chance of having sex with a one? Would the girl of your dreams be so unproffesional that she does the naughty at work? So is she really your dream girl?

 

Yeah, this poster has a point (except about the having sex at work, since you don't know for sure if she's really done that or would).

[MattW]

Really? Based on one or even a group of people you're going to generalize to that extent? There's always excuses to be negative and take the easy way out. So what?

 

All I'm saying is that I've always had a hard time having faith in people, but I was able to put a lot of faith into this girl. If I allow myself to see that maybe she is a hypocrite, maybe she does make bad decisions, maybe she has no self respect, then it makes me feel like it was all for nothing, it makes me feel stupid for having faith in her, and it confuses me even further as far who I can actually put my faith into.

 

Again, what are the odds that I'll ever meet a girl that has all the same (good) qualities this girl has? And if I manage to meet a girl that does, what are the odds that she'll be mutually attracted to me? Like I said before, if you factor in only the good qualities, this last girl was pretty much the "gold medal" for me. I don't want "silver" or "bronze", but I also don't want to be alone. But chances are, there won't be any "gold medals" in my future, at least not any time soon, and even if there are, I won't be able to have them.

[penelope13]

what are the odds that she'll be mutually attracted to me?

 

To be frank, with your current frame of mind, it will be difficult for you to attract (even more so maintain) a romantic relationship. Having to deal with a constant negative frame of mind is already challenging in friends (who you are usually only spending a limited amount of time with), but in a partner it can be physically and emotionally exhausting.

 

The good thing is - it's in your power to change your negative outlook on everything ... you just have to make the decision that you had enough of being miserable and stuck

[Batya33]

I won't rewrite Penelope's post. ditto. As for your first paragraph, so what? Lots of things are hard. Reread my post about my friend who is a paraplegic since age 30.

[Rosti87]

I believe one attract who they are in that moment. If your general view of people are what you cite above. then you will continue to attract those type of people. Personally I think your 'dream girl' is one of them.

[blueidealist24]

You know how you said that when you get up on a certain day and intend to act cold and withdrawn from everyone, you end up being happy and joking around, and when you try to be positive, you end up falling back into negativity? Maybe your mind plays tricks on you that make you see semi-good people as bad, and people who could not be good for you in some ways as good. I'm not a therapist, of course, but this could be some subconscious thing your mind has designed to intentionally make you miserable, since I think you mentioned several times that some part of you wanted to stay miserable.

[HeatherB]

This is sort of like me starting a thread about how I really want to be a jetfighter and join the Blue Angels, but they have all these requirements like knowing how to get into the cockpit and read an altimeter. And I really want to want to know how to do all that but I can't make myself do anything. Why does the world have to be that way? What's wrong with me that I can't fix myself? All I want is to be a Blue Angel but the world won't let me and I can't stop getting in my own way. What should I do guys?

 

Uh huh. You're right but. No. But that won't work. Because I can't make myself do that. I guess I'll have to keep wishing and hoping for change. What should I do? No, that won't work because I can't make myself want to do that. What should I do?

 

ad nauseum yet amazingly self sustainable

[MattW]

To be frank, with your current frame of mind, it will be difficult for you to attract (even more so maintain) a romantic relationship. Having to deal with a constant negative frame of mind is already challenging in friends (who you are usually only spending a limited amount of time with), but in a partner it can be physically and emotionally exhausting.

 

The good thing is - it's in your power to change your negative outlook on everything ... you just have to make the decision that you had enough of being miserable and stuck

 

You guys have said before that I would be a bad partner because of my issues, but I wonder, how so? Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

I believe one attract who they are in that moment. If your general view of people are what you cite above. then you will continue to attract those type of people. Personally I think your 'dream girl' is one of them.

 

I'm not sure I follow...?

 

You know how you said that when you get up on a certain day and intend to act cold and withdrawn from everyone, you end up being happy and joking around, and when you try to be positive, you end up falling back into negativity? Maybe your mind plays tricks on you that make you see semi-good people as bad, and people who could not be good for you in some ways as good. I'm not a therapist, of course, but this could be some subconscious thing your mind has designed to intentionally make you miserable, since I think you mentioned several times that some part of you wanted to stay miserable.

 

I'm also not sure I follow this, either...?

[Batya33]

You guys have said before that I would be a bad partner because of my issues, but I wonder, how so? Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

 

 

I'm not sure I follow...?

 

 

 

I'm also not sure I follow this, either...?

 

At least for me when I was dating the number one reason I chose not to meet someone for a date or go on another date was because of the person's negative outlook/mindset whether it was in my face or just his vibes/energy. Huge turn-off.

[Rosti87]

You guys have said before that I would be a bad partner because of my issues, but I wonder, how so? Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

A strong partner is a whole person. You have to ask yourself if you are a whole person. An incomplete person can be a emotional burden on your partner.

 

A strong partner is resilient under pressure or down periods. You have to assess how you handle down periods. If you can't you will wear out your partner.

 

A strong partner has needs but is not needy. You have to ask yourself am I needy? If you are needy you will tire your partner.

 

A strong partner trusts others. You have to ask yourself do you trust others. If you don't trust others you will unnecessarily worry about 'rivals' and in turn drive your partner nuts.

 

A strong partner sees both the good and bad in people not extremes in either direction. You have to ask yourself if you put people too much on a pedestal. You have to ask yourself if you are too negative toward people. Either extreme regard toward you partner will scare them away.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I follow...?

 

Example: If a person has a mindset that people are not trusting they will be attracted to/attract people that are not trusting. People who are confident in themselves and are open to others are attracted to/attract other confident open people. You attract who you are. You are attracted to who you are in that moment.

[Angler]

You guys have said before that I would be a bad partner because of my issues, but I wonder, how so? Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

DISCLAIMER: Please don't take this as anything other than critical feedback, and I only post this because you asked.

 

Based on what you've written here and in other posts, I think the character traits that would currently hinder a relationship would be:

 

Needy

Clingy

Passive Aggressive

Insecure

Jealous

Pessimism

Nihilism

Stubborn

Untrusting

 

If you think getting into a relationship will make everything better you're wrong. Getting into a relationship in your current state of mind is the worst thing you could do. If you're in pain now watching the behaviour of a crush, wait until a girlfriend cheats or breaks up with you...which is a forgone conclusion based on the behaviours you exhibit in real life and online.

 

I highlighted the word currently above because you have the power to change.

 

Please, make therapy a priority. Please.

 

Remember - no one is posting in here because they don't care, even if we're tough on you. We're trying for you.

[MattW]

It's not that I think finding someone will make everything all better, though, it's just that this desire has been unfulfilled for me for so long that it's become a bigger and bigger priority, and it's blown up so much that it's affecting my emotions in a very big way.

 

The thing is, even if I do therapy and by some miracle, it actually helps me, if I still end up not being able to date and connect with people afterwards, I think there's a good chance my emotions will explode all over again. In other words, I feel like therapy would only be a temporary solution, a "bandaid on a horrific wound", so to speak. It might help me for a little while, but when I realize again that I'm still all alone, I'm just going to spiral back out again.

 

I really don't think I can ever "make peace" with the idea of being alone for the rest of my life. I absolutely do not want that. But I sincerely believe that I will not meet other girls I connect with in a good way, and I also believe that even if I do manage to stumble on to some awesome girl, there's no chance she'll date me, whether I have these issues or not. That's why I have my doubts about therapy in the long run, because there's nothing a therapist can say that will help me make peace with the fact that I'm always going to be alone. Nothing.

 

Remember - no one is posting in here because they don't care, even if we're tough on you. We're trying for you.

 

No, I know. But on the flip side, I hope you guys understand that I'm not acting the way I am as a sign of any kind of malice or anything like that. I want to try for myself, too, but my issues are just too much for me to handle.

[penelope13]

The thing is, even if I do therapy and by some miracle, it actually helps me, if I still end up not being able to date and connect with people afterwards, I think there's a good chance my emotions will explode all over again.

 

... or therapy would really help you, you would start making friends, build a social network, start dating and find a suitable partner ....

[Angler]

The thing is, even if I do therapy and by some miracle, it actually helps me, if I still end up not being able to date and connect with people afterwards, I think there's a good chance my emotions will explode all over again. In other words, I feel like therapy would only be a temporary solution, a "bandaid on a horrific wound", so to speak. It might help me for a little while, but when I realize again that I'm still all alone, I'm just going to spiral back out again.

 

It might be something you have to maintain over time. Some people remain in therapy for years.

 

If you're serious about connecting with more people on a platonic level, and eventually romantically, you're going to have to make this a priority in life.

[blueidealist24]

You guys have said before that I would be a bad partner because of my issues, but I wonder, how so? Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

 

I'm not really sure how to explain what I was trying to say before better.

 

While I don't think you would necessarily be a bad partner in the long run, the things that Angler suggested would turn someone off when it comes to starting to date you, and you have to have the start to get into the relationship, clearly lol.

[sportsguy9981]

I think a lot of people have to put themselves in the right circumstances in order to meet the right person.. I find it very hard to be in the right circumstance because Im in a small town, yet I don't want to quit my job yet, so Im trying to figure out ways to make it work here.. but if you really aren't in the right circumstance, sometimes things just cant happen.

[MattW]

... or therapy would really help you, you would start making friends, build a social network, start dating and find a suitable partner ....

 

Perhaps, but I'm not the type of person that can look at it that way. I mean, I understand the idea of telling yourself "This is the result I'm going to have" in order to be positive and get the results you desire, but every single time I've had that mindset, I've never gotten the result I wanted in the end. That repetitive "failing" has conditioned me into a very "glass half empty" kind of person. Why should I believe that the best can happen for me? It hasn't happened before, in anything I've attempted, so why would this be the time it will?

 

Again, I'm inclined to believe that therapy would maybe set me straight for a few years, but if/ when I STILL fail to have anyone in my life afterwards, I'm just going to relapse. Like I said, there's no way I can ever make peace and be okay with being alone. It's just not going to happen.

 

It might be something you have to maintain over time. Some people remain in therapy for years.

 

I guess. That kinda depresses me, though. If I need therapy for five or so years, I'll be 30 by the time I'm done with it. Once I'm done with it, it'll probably take me another 3-5 years to start having friends, and another 3-5 years to start dating. Then I'll be in my 40s, at which point, it'll probably take me 5-10 years to find someone I want to marry. I just don't want to have to wait that long. I hate that I'll probably never get to experience "young love", or anything like that. I don't want to be an old man by the time I'm getting ready to get married for the first time.

 

While I don't think you would necessarily be a bad partner in the long run, the things that Angler suggested would turn someone off when it comes to starting to date you, and you have to have the start to get into the relationship, clearly lol.

 

I dunno. Personally, I still think I do an okay job of hiding all that stuff when pursuing a girl (or even just people as friends). Actually... as much as I hate to admit it, I think I've inherited my mother's ability to mask who she really is. Of course, she uses it to be a horrible, selfish, sex-crazed woman, whereas, I just use it to conceal my self-destructive issues from the rest of the world. I know you guys obviously doubt me when I say this, but the way I am on here is really not how I present myself to people in real life. It sounds crazy (and it probably is a bit "psychopathic"), but when I'm out around people, it's seriously like some kind of "switch" has been flipped, and even though I feel like **** inside, I'm a very warm, caring, friendly person, and I demonstrate a positive, confident attitude. Granted, many times, I'm often a bit too "quiet" and "boring" for people to care much about, but I really don't feel like my inner issues manifest themselves to people the way you guys think I do.

 

Honestly, I still think I'm perhaps just a boring person in general, as well as a physically unattractive one (because I look like a very young child). And there's not much I can about those. I can't change the way I look, and being "boring" isn't a choice; you're either fun and interesting, or you're not. I'm not. Well, at best, I think I maybe come close, but I'm just under that line.

[blueidealist24]

Sorry about the bad grammar since my apostrophe key isnt working..

 

You wont necessarily have to wait until youre DONE therapy to have friends or date. You may see some improvement in a few months or even weeks, enough to start forming some relationships.

 

About hiding your problems, maybe people can sense that youre not really opening up and thats kind of off-putting. They may feel like they cant really get close to you. They might not know exactly what youre hiding but will just get a general sense that they arent seeing the entire person. Therefore, they might not really trust you or feel any connection whatsoever.. you know what I mean.. it might seem like theyre kind of talking to an actor, but have no idea what hes really like underneath.

[Rosti87]

Therapy helps one discover their issues and then address them. Good therapy teaches you skills to manage the part of yourself that are badly damages. By acquiring skills to manage these issues, one is able to move forward. There is no such thing as a panacea. It takes WORK lots of work. But once the work is done and one is able to manage their issues, progress will be made and growth will follow.

[SB1]

The confidence comes first, the positive treatment based on this confidence then ensues. Asking for it the other way around is asking the impossible!

[Wayfara]

I hate to even consider that she's hypocritical, and unprofessional, and lacks self respect, and does stupid things, because that just feeds back into my old pessimism about people.

 

I think I've inherited my mother's ability to mask who she really is.

 

even if I do therapy and by some miracle, it actually helps me, if I still end up not being able to date and connect with people afterwards, I think there's a good chance my emotions will explode all over again.

 

I think those are excuses you give yourself to avoid responsibility.

 

Your don't want you to see this girl for who she really is because then you would be responsible to move on and that's too much effort so you rationalize it's actually better to keep idolizing her as stopping would make you "too cynical", that way you can allow yourself to complain about how all amazing girls fall for undeserving jerks.

 

You don't want to see your desperation and neediness as a problem as that would make you responsible to work on it and that's too much effort so you rationalize it's okay to needy and desperate because you are "good at hiding it", that way you can allow yourself to complain about how good guys like you are overlooked as your bad sides aren't supposed to be noticed anyway.

 

You don't want to see improvements as something that could help you as that would make you responsible to make them and that's too much effort so you rationalize that as they aren't guaranteed to get you a relationship so it's "a waste of time", that way you can allow yourself to complain about how helpless you are without even trying to get help.

 

You have earlier you aren't afraid afraid of efforts, they just seem pointless to do when the chance to succeed seems so low, in my opinion that is laziness. What if you don't succeed, what could possibly get worse? Nothing, you don't really anything better to do. What use would you have for the time and money you save if you only live on the hope that someone will want you? Your life would suck the same but by investing some effort you would at least have a chance of it not sucking.

 

I'm clearly referring to the qualities that I do like about her when I call her my "dream girl"

 

Maybe this girl thinks the sleazeball ex is her "dream guy" apart from being a scumbag cheater. Bad qualities count as much as good ones, you have to consider the whole package.

 

She's the first person I've ever really had an enormous amount of faith in, as a person, someone I felt I could respect and think highly of, someone who seemed to have a good head on her shoulders, someone I could absolutely trust with anything. If I accept the possibility that these things might not actually be true, I feel like it just gives me the excuse to continue being pessimistic about people and having no faith in the rest of the world.

 

I think that is your excuse to keep idolizing her. You say you have felt connection to people in the past, did they all prove to be bad people? If not, then you already have proof there are good people out there.

 

I know you guys obviously doubt me when I say this, but the way I am on here is really not how I present myself to people in real life.

 

Very few people openly present themselves as insecure and needy, it's usually something that is noticed anyway beyond the smiles. And if you really were an amazing actor you would probably not have any problems attracting people. You have blamed your looks in other threads but you also say you are not that ugly and the girls you go for not that hot. When you go for girls at your same level of attractiveness it's not your looks that are at fault, it's something else. It could be a case of bad luck but as you do have problems with neediness and desperation I would fix that first before calling it a mystery.

 

Even if we say you really do fool everyone into thinking you are this very confident positive guy, do you really want girls to fall in with a fake you that doesn't exist? Even as an amazing actor these girls would eventually find out how you are and when they see that you don't really have the qualities you pretend to have they would look for someone who has them for real.

 

Can you guys give me specific examples of how I would be a bad partner to a girl? Because I don't really see how that would necessarily be the case.

 

Neediness and desperation are turn offs which would make it hard for a partner to stay attracted to you in your current state of mind (you might think you can fake it with people who don't know you well enough but thinking you can fake it with a partner is unrealistic). And without attraction you would basically just be a her friend, not someone she desires to be with.

 

You say you can't make peace with the possibility of not finding someone to be with. I think that's where you fall and it would be sad to know that the reason you can't be wanted is because you can't see a life without being wanted. If your happiness is dependent on a having a woman loving you don't really have a life as it is and no life to share with anyone. And your girlfriend would have less of a life with you as partner than she would have being on her own as with you you would both be living her life so she would only have half of a life left, you would be a burden to her.

[MattW]

You wont necessarily have to wait until youre DONE therapy to have friends or date. You may see some improvement in a few months or even weeks, enough to start forming some relationships.

 

Maybe, but that doesn't seem very plausible to me.

 

About hiding your problems, maybe people can sense that youre not really opening up and thats kind of off-putting. They may feel like they cant really get close to you. They might not know exactly what youre hiding but will just get a general sense that they arent seeing the entire person. Therefore, they might not really trust you or feel any connection whatsoever.. you know what I mean.. it might seem like theyre kind of talking to an actor, but have no idea what hes really like underneath.

 

Doesn't that only really matter when it seems as though you're hiding things in such a way so as to get something from someone? You can kinda tell when someone is using you, but I don't see how I could give off that vibe, since I'm not looking to "use" anyone.

 

Your don't want you to see this girl for who she really is because then you would be responsible to move on and that's too much effort so you rationalize it's actually better to keep idolizing her as stopping would make you "too cynical", that way you can allow yourself to complain about how all amazing girls fall for undeserving jerks.

 

It's not that "moving on" would be "too much effort", it's just... I can't disconnect myself from this girl, at this point. Like I said, she's pretty much my "dream girl", the kind of person you only meet once in a lifetime. When you never meet anyone you can say that about, and then suddenly, that person is right there in front of you, and you're around them for a few years, getting to know them and making connections with them, how do you really let go of that person? Letting go means going back to living in the complete unknown, and I'm so resistant to that. I don't like things being a complete question mark, I don't like the idea of spending the next several years hoping I *might* meet someone (when in reality, I'd probably just spend the next several years alone, or at best, caving and settling for someone that I don't actually feel anything for).

 

At least with this girl, there's still "something" for me to focus on. While it's obviously foolish and won't happen, I can continue to entertain the idea that maybe if I say or do the right thing, she just might see me in a different light and will want to give me a shot. And again, even though the rational part of me knows that's silly, I'd still rather feel like I have my sights on something specific, than to let go of her completely and drift back into living in the unknown. I don't like the unknown, I hate the unknown. I have that feeling I get of just "drifting along". I felt that for years before I hit it off with this girl, and it was awful, but it is what it is. The idea of actually letting go of this girl doesn't seem "freeing" to me, it just seems like I'd be getting dropped off in the middle of a wild jungle, with no supplies, and no sense of direction of how to get out, and that's just too "scary" to me, I don't want to do that again.

 

You have earlier you aren't afraid afraid of efforts, they just seem pointless to do when the chance to succeed seems so low, in my opinion that is laziness. What if you don't succeed, what could possibly get worse? Nothing, you don't really anything better to do. What use would you have for the time and money you save if you only live on the hope that someone will want you? Your life would suck the same but by investing some effort you would at least have a chance of it not sucking.

 

I don't really have an answer for this. It's just, the world has beaten it over my head time and time again (not just with friends, dating, etc., but with any endeavor at anything) that I absolutely cannot succeed in anything that I do. Regardless of how hard I try, regardless of how much effort I put in, regardless of whatever, I ALWAYS fail. That's the reoccurring theme of my life. Things feel pointless to me because by now, I feel like the world has taught me my lesson -- I'm a failure. Plain and simple. I've always failed at everything I've wanted to do, and I always will. That's just my life.

 

By now, I *should* have a thick skin to failure, but the thing is, I don't. It just keeps piling on, making me more and more frustrated, man, sad, and self-loathing. I'm afraid that I'm reaching a breaking point, and that if I continue to fail as much as I have been in the past, it just might "break" me for good, and possibly lead to me doing something drastic, such as taking my own life. "Making effort" does seem pointless to me because I feel like I already know the outcome, but I'm also scared because I don't think I can really take much more "failure". I need a "win" so badly, but I feel like that's just not going to ever happen.

 

I think that is your excuse to keep idolizing her. You say you have felt connection to people in the past, did they all prove to be bad people? If not, then you already have proof there are good people out there.

 

I don't know about "bad", but I've definitely noticed a bit of a phenomenon with people; I've had it happen many times in my life where people will suddenly be very interested in me, learning about me, getting me to open up, and whatnot. And I'll let them in, and they'll indicate to me that they like me and think I'm a really cool person. But then shortly after we hit that point, without any warning or indication as to why, they pull away and become distant, and I'm back at square one. In a way, it's almost like people use me for whatever, and once I've outlived my purpose to them, they go back to not caring about me. I'm not saying that's what actually keeps happening, as I don't really have much anyone could "use" me for, but that's the best way I can describe it. This literally happens every single time I try to get close to someone.

 

You have blamed your looks in other threads but you also say you are not that ugly and the girls you go for not that hot. When you go for girls at your same level of attractiveness it's not your looks that are at fault, it's something else.

 

Yeah, but even girls that aren't "out of my league" want someone reasonably attractive. When you combine my extreme shortness, my naturally looking childish face, my higher pitch voice, and my inability to properly grow facial hair, I look like a little boy. It doesn't matter how I dress, it doesn't matter how mature and punctual I am, that's what everyone sees me as -- a child. No woman, attractive or not, wants to be intimate with a little boy. That's just how it is. Certain people have hinted at this to me in the past, so it's not all in my head.

 

Even if we say you really do fool everyone into thinking you are this very confident positive guy, do you really want girls to fall in with a fake you that doesn't exist? Even as an amazing actor these girls would eventually find out how you are and when they see that you don't really have the qualities you pretend to have they would look for someone who has them for real.

 

See, though, I don't "fake" it to be manipulative or dishonest with anyone. I "fake" it because that's the person I actually want to be. I "fake" it because I want to believe that under the right circumstances, and after I've "faked it" enough, that I can actually BE that person.

 

You say you can't make peace with the possibility of not finding someone to be with. I think that's where you fall and it would be sad to know that the reason you can't be wanted is because you can't see a life without being wanted. If your happiness is dependent on a having a woman loving you don't really have a life as it is and no life to share with anyone. And your girlfriend would have less of a life with you as partner than she would have being on her own as with you you would both be living her life so she would only have half of a life left, you would be a burden to her.

 

Well, like I've been saying, it's not that being with someone is ALL I want, nor am I saying that I can't have ANY happiness in other areas of my life. I'm also not saying that if I were with someone, that person would be my whole world. I'm just saying that I want to be with someone, I want to have friends, I want to have a romantic partner, and there's absolutely nothing anyone can say, therapist or not, that can make me stop wanting those things. I can be relatively happy in other areas of my life, but my failures in having a social life and love life will always stand out to me, and I'll always be reminded of them in one way or another.

[Rosti87]

Well, it is obvious that you are at rock bottom. Therefore you have nothing to lose but to call that therapist up and start climbing out of that hole you are in.

[blueidealist24]

Doesn't that only really matter when it seems as though you're hiding things in such a way so as to get something from someone? You can kinda tell when someone is using you, but I don't see how I could give off that vibe, since I'm not looking to "use" anyone.

 

 

No, I used to fake happiness and act like a party girl when I actually was severely depressed and anxious a few years ago. It would work well for awhile but after people knew me for a few months the odd one would make a comment that it bothered them that they couldnt get to know me on a deeper level. I wasnt trying to use anybody for anything either.. just make them think I was fun and happy. Well, the fun part wasnt completely untrue, but the happy was.