The whole "confidence"/ "self-worth" thing

[blueidealist24]

Maybe this girl (which I think others have hinted at) is simply attracted to jerks. Some girls are, so if you're not a jerk, you may have no chance. That might not be the only reason she's not attracted to you, but it might be one of them.

 

Do you talk about the digital media stuff in your online dating profile? It seems like your best bet would be to somehow find a girl who is into that, too. Then she would clearly find talking about it with you at least somewhat interesting.

[Angler]

With all due respect, does it really matter which forum I post on? Regardless of where I post, it's always just going to be the same people, saying the same stuff.

 

When you stop saying all the same stuff, I'm sure everyone else will, too.

[radiohead20]

"As far as the whole "personal development" and "working on yourself" stuff goes, again, all that seems to come down to is "Go out more, do more stuff, be an interesting person!", and again, that's so much easier said than done.

 

 

I think this is BS, or at least severely overrated. Improving yourself, even to a higher degree is no guarantee that women will suddenly become magnetically attracted to you and you will be swimming in a see of poonanny. What women are attracted to is your core personality and your image. your image, literally is what gets you the "audition". If you are an introvert and you decide to go after your passions but it does not change the fact that you are an introvert that dislikes dressing up, going out to bars/clubs, flaunting yourself bombastically, nothing is going to change from womens' perception of you. You have to change the things that you are lacking in order to attract women, which are related to increasing your masculine energy and physical appearance, in my very very strong opinion. Speaking in a deeper, more controlled voice, bettering your posture and growing a five o clock shadow and working out and fitting in a tight t shirt is going to get your more results than succeeding in your personal business or completing an ultra-marathon. Sad but True.

[MattW]

Maybe this girl (which I think others have hinted at) is simply attracted to jerks. Some girls are, so if you're not a jerk, you may have no chance. That might not be the only reason she's not attracted to you, but it might be one of them.

 

Eh... But she's so smart and mature, and she always used to hint around to me that she hated guys like that. It just drives me crazy to think how she can be attached to guys like that, and not to me.

 

I'm starting to feel worse and worse about it, too. I keep getting stuck working the same shifts as them, and it bothers me having to sit by while they hang all over each other, and disappear in the warehouse or office for 20+ minutes at a time doing god-knows-what. It happened today, and I've had that feeling of "boiling blood" ever since. I'm in a horrible mood, and my body is literally so tensed up that it hurts. I just can't calm down right now. I'm so tired of feeling like this, but I just can't get away. v_v

 

Do you talk about the digital media stuff in your online dating profile?

 

Yeah, I do. Still don't really find it to be a point of interest for anyone, unfortunately.

[blueidealist24]

Maybe she thinks she hates those guys, but subconsciously something draws her to them.

 

There has to be some girl out there who's interested in digital media. I'm actually mildly interested in it since I had to make a video for a fundraising campaign for a non-profit, but there have to be girls out there who know more about it than me.. perhaps you should check out some forums related to it; you might come accross someone in your own area, even to have as a friend.

 

Maybe you should look for a new job, even if it's another retail job, if working with them is bothering you so much. IIRC you said there wasn't much chance for upward mobility at the job you have.

[Batya33]

You quoted me but I didn't write that. And I don't think your response -to MattW -has much to do with what he wrote. I will say that one of the reasons my husband and I were far more into each other and compatible the second time around that we dated was because in the 8 years we were apart he followed his dream (relating to career) and following that dream really increased his self-confidence and happiness which in turn made him more attractive and desirable.

[MattW]

Maybe she thinks she hates those guys, but subconsciously something draws her to them.

 

I guess, I just... I don't understand why it has to be this way. The one time I manage to meet a girl I hit it off with and connect well with, a girl that seems so different than the rest, and yet, it doesn't matter at all, because a douchey full-of-himself womanizer is more attractive than I am.

 

There has to be some girl out there who's interested in digital media. I'm actually mildly interested in it since I had to make a video for a fundraising campaign for a non-profit, but there have to be girls out there who know more about it than me.. perhaps you should check out some forums related to it; you might come accross someone in your own area, even to have as a friend.

 

Maybe. I dunno. It's not really important to me that I meet a girl that's into digital media production. Anyway, I'm on a couple different video production community sites, but I never really "meet" people through them.

 

Maybe you should look for a new job, even if it's another retail job, if working with them is bothering you so much. IIRC you said there wasn't much chance for upward mobility at the job you have.

 

I REALLY don't want to leave a retail job for another retail/ service job. Actually, I made a promise to myself a long time ago that my next job will be an entry level job into a more fulfilling career. I need to move forward, not... "sideways". I don't want to leave cashiering here just to go cashier somewhere else. Not to mention, I already know how everything works at my store, and I already know everyone. I really don't want to start all over, just doing the same crap somewhere else.

 

Still... It's really becoming a challenge being around the two of them. I don't know what would actually feel worse; to continue wondering IF there's something going on between them, or to know that there IS something going on between them. They way they act, the way they constantly hover on each other, the way they sometimes act weird and secretive around me, they way they hide out in the office together for what seems like the longest time...

 

Whenever I'm around them, I just can't stop wondering what they're talking about, what they're doing behind closed doors, what's going on between them. Maybe I'm wrong and they're not actually "together", but what else am I supposed to think? Honestly, I'm still feeling tensed up and sore, and my chest still hurts, and it's only going to keep getting worse the more I have to keep being around them. Every time I see them going off together or ducking out in the office, I get that sharp pain in my chest, and I just can't stop my blood from boiling.

 

I know it's pathetic that I'm still so stuck on all of this, but this whole thing is just really upsetting, and it's stressing me out more and more. It drives me crazy that most awesome girl I've ever met is just not attracted to me in the slightest. It drives me crazy that this guy I've hated, who acts like a complete ass, yet always manages to get exactly what he wants, has managed to get my dream girl. And all I can do is sit back and watch, and agonize over it, because the whole thing just sucks. Like I've been saying, what are the odds I'll ever meet a girl as awesome as her, let alone any time soon (within the next 2-3 years)? And what are the odds that girl will be attracted to me? What are the odds there won't be some other charismatic silver-tongued sleaze that wins her over instead of me?

 

If I had never met this last girl, honestly, I don't think I would've really hated the idea of "settling" for someone I'm not particularly attracted to, later on in life. But meeting her screwed all that up, because I know exactly what I want, now. I want her, I want someone like her. I don't want to settle for anything less. But she's one in a million, the kind of girl someone like me only meets once in a life time. And I met her; but, I just couldn't be with her, and now that's gone, "once in a life time" has come and gone, and all I can do is hope that *maybe* I'll find the "second best" some time before I die. *Maybe*. What a bleak reality I have before me...

[blueidealist24]

It does really suck to have to watch that (I've been there, a few years ago), but you're going to have to find SOME way to deal with it if you're going to stay at that job. I really think therapy or even anxiety medication could help you, if you're having that bad anxiety when you watch them. Try not to jump to conclusions though. After all, you said that you don't know if they're really together. When people are anxious they tend to jump to worst-case scenarios. Of course, if they are together you'll have to deal with it but if not, maybe you're experiencing a lot of this anxiety unnecessarily.

[MattW]

Try not to jump to conclusions though. After all, you said that you don't know if they're really together. When people are anxious they tend to jump to worst-case scenarios. Of course, if they are together you'll have to deal with it but if not, maybe you're experiencing a lot of this anxiety unnecessarily.

 

It's getting harder and harder not to jump to conclusions, though. I can't stop wondering what they're talking about when I see them together, I can't stop wondering if they're constantly hiding out in the store office so they can go have sex inside the store, I can't stop wondering what it is they have going outside of work... Why can't I find that mutual attraction, or mutual lust, why can't I find someone that wants to spend time with me, why can't I find someone that wants to have fun adventurous sex in naughty places with me? The thing is, even if I'm wrong about all of that, and they're not "together", it still bugs me that she's so eager to spend so much time with him at work. Why him and not me? There was a time, before I asked her out, that she actually used to seem eager and excited to spend time with me; we used to have so much fun together, we used to have good conversations, she always laughed at all my stupid jokes, she'd constantly find me to hang out at work, she genuinely seemed to enjoy my company. But ever since I asked her out, it's like all of that went downhill, and ever since she split with her last boyfriend who cheated on her, she's been all over the other ex that cheated on her that still works with us. I just don't get it. Why did I lose what I had with her, why does she not want to spend time with me anymore, but can't get enough of spending time with her sleazy cheating ex?

 

In a way, I also wonder if the guy, himself, is doing this to "get back at me" for having feelings for a girl he used to date. I obviously regret it now that he ever found out I liked her, but he acted so cool and supportive about it at the time, and I wasn't exactly secretive to him about how special she was to me. At the same time, I've told her that she's the coolest girl I've ever met, and I've also made it very clear to her that I hate said sleazy ex. I mean, if they're going to do what they're going to do, why can't they at least have the decency to do it outside of work, or at least, not when I'm there? If they're together, it's like they're flaunting it right in front of my face, and that bothers me. He might as well be saying "Hey, you know the girl you're totally crazy about? Well, I'm banging her every chance I get! Haha!".

 

That's why I have such a bleak outlook in general, because the world is biased towards guys like that. All the best girls tend to gravitate towards guys like that, and yeah, maybe they'll learn their lesson years down the line, but that means us guys who aren't like that have no choice but to wait around and take whatever we can get. Why can't I be the guy that hits it off with an awesome girl, why can't I be the guy that she's attracted to, why can't I be the guy she wants to spend time with and be intimate with? Like I said, there was a time where I was absolutely sure this girl enjoyed being around me, and yet, in the end, that meant nothing, and the first chance she got, she distanced herself from me so she could go hang all over some creep that probably doesn't even really care about her. I feel like this is the cycle I'm ALWAYS going to fall into with a girl, because there's ALWAYS going to be a guy like that just right around the corner, and once she knows I like her, and once she sees that other guy, she's gone.

 

And like I said, now that I've seen the "first place" girl for me, I just don't want anything less. I don't want "second place" or "third place", but "first place" is once in a life time, and it came and went. I just can't feel excited about looking for my "second place" girl. Why did I have to meet this girl in the first place? All it did was show me someone that's exactly what I want in a person, only to show me that I can't ever have that. Why couldn't I have just lived blissfully ignorant, believing my dream girl was just that, a fantasy, rather than knowing she's out there, but I can't have her?

 

Ugh. After trying to get some sleep for the night, I still feel "upset" this morning. There's a sharp pain in my chest, I have bad indigestion, my eye keeps twitching, and there's a very unnerving feeling just pumping through my body. The more I'm around this girl and this guy, the worse it's getting. At this point, I have no idea how I'm going to get through the next however many months before one or all three of us move on to different jobs. This stress just might do me in...

[Angler]

I can't help but make an observation:

 

You blame your schedule for being unable to find the time for a therapist, but you have the time every day to write paragraphs about why you can't or shouldn't seek help.

[MattW]

I can't help but make an observation:

 

You blame your schedule for being unable to find the time for a therapist, but you have the time every day to write paragraphs about why you can't or shouldn't seek help.

 

When you're a fast typer, it doesn't exactly take a long time to write up posts even as long as I write. Not to mention, most of my longest posts are early in the morning or late at night, when I actually have the time to sit down and type. All my other posts are typically done via my phone, when I'm at work, school, or interning.

[Wayfara]

But she's so smart and mature

 

What's so smart and mature about a sleazeball lover with no self insight or self respect who uses paid work hours to have sex with her cheating ex?

 

All the best girls tend to gravitate towards guys like that

 

People who gravitate to cheaters and abuser don't have respect for themselves so it's a mystery to me why you think this group of people is the best.

[Batya33]

"And like I said, now that I've seen the "first place" girl for me, I just don't want anything less. I don't want "second place" or "third place", but "first place" is once in a life time, and it came and went. I just can't feel excited about looking for my "second place" girl."

 

I know very very few people who are now with their first loves in a long term relationship. I'm sure what I'll write will fall on deaf ears but here goes. Yesterday I met with a woman in her late 40s who I hadn't seen in 30 years. I really liked her back then because she is bright, compassionate and spunky. About 15 years ago due to a tragic accident she became a paraplegic. I didn't know about this until a few weeks ago (and by the way not until after we made plans to meet- my wanting to see her had nothing to do with her situation). I can tell you, she hasn't changed a bit -she is still bright, compassionate and spunky. Except now she has an awesome career (part of it is helping people with disabilities but she also did that before her accident) and lives on her own, independently where as teenagers of course we didn't. It's incredibly unfair that this happened to her. But she is a true hero. So, sure, dismiss what I wrote as "yeah I know lots of people have it harder than me BUT it's just so hard to do _____". I just figured I'd share just in case it might get through to you in a different way. Can't blame a girl for trying.

[blueidealist24]

I honestly don't think they're going to go off and have secret sex inside the store, even if they did happen to be hooking up somewhere else. I don't think the guy is doing it to hurt your feelings, either, although he may not really care about your feelings. A hot girl, or semi-hot anyway is just paying attention to him so he's just lapping it up without thinking about you or really anybody else besides himself and maybe her (but, given his character, probably mostly himself). It sounds like the girl liked to hang out with you before but is distancing herself now so she doesn't accidentally give you the idea that she has romantic interest. I know it's hard for you to see her as anything but smart and mature, but really, if her behaviour is exactly as you describe it, her actions sound quite illogical to me. It sounds like she just flits from guy to guy to flirt with (including you, for awhile), without any really logical pattern behind things. I'm wondering if he were to want something serious besides "banging" or whatever lol, she would lose interest in him like she did in you. Maybe she sort of ran away from you since she knows you're the type of guy to want something serious and she just wants to fool around lightheartedly for now.. which makes those guys you say are jerks the best choice at the present time.

 

I think it all might come down to this girl actually being immature and maybe not so smart, but you not seeing her true colours. If you were able to see her for what she really is (I know I and other posters don't know her, and you do, but often you see your love interest through rose-coloured glasses), you might be able to move on.

 

A personal example, once I had a crush on a guy and fooled around with him. I saw him as the funniest, hottest, most friendly guy ever, whom I wanted to spend all day with. Unfortunately, he didn't want a relationship and started having sex with someone else. I was devastated for months because I still thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and being with him would make my life oh-so-complete. Then after not seeing him for weeks and seeing him again, all of a sudden it was like reality hit me on the head and I thought to myself, "Wow, this guy is a jerk. He's STUPID. What was I smoking before when I liked him? He doesn't have much of anything to offer besides a body!" Then, I was able to move on in my mind, thankfully, since he had already moved on quite some time before.

[MattW]

What's so smart and mature about a sleazeball lover with no self insight or self respect who uses paid work hours to have sex with her cheating ex?

 

Well, that's part of it, I don't WANT to believe that she's like that, that she's actually doing that. But that's how it looks to me, and as someone that spent a bit of time getting to know her, I just don't understand why she would do something like that and why she would choose to do it with someone like him. It just makes no sense to me, and that bothers me a lot. Everything I learned about her tells me that she's got a good head on her shoulders, but I see the guys she dates and the things she does with them, and I just don't get it.

 

People who gravitate to cheaters and abuser don't have respect for themselves so it's a mystery to me why you think this group of people is the best.

 

What I'm saying is that a lot of cheaters and abusers have the uncanny ability of making themselves seem like the greatest guys on the planet. They're charismatic, and they know exactly what to say and what to do to get the women they want. Women gravitate towards those guys because they know how to paint an attractive picture of themselves, even if it's all a lie. They can make themselves seem like the most awesome, exciting, fun people around, and whether it's true or not, it seems to work out in a lot of cases.

 

Whereas, someone like me, a good, sweet-hearted guy, albeit with average looks, that's kind, compassionate, friendly, and supportive, with a light fun playful attitude, that's just not enough. I'm not an aggressive, in-your-face kind of person, I'm mild mannered, I'm laid back, and I'm pretty easy going. I'm not AS funny, creative, or clever as I wish I was, but I still try. And yet, I still can't compare to the silver tongued guys loaded with charisma that can make themselves out to be god's gift to women. I just can't do it.

 

I'm sure what I'll write will fall on deaf ears but here goes. Yesterday I met with a woman in her late 40s who I hadn't seen in 30 years. I really liked her back then because she is bright, compassionate and spunky. About 15 years ago due to a tragic accident she became a paraplegic. I didn't know about this until a few weeks ago (and by the way not until after we made plans to meet- my wanting to see her had nothing to do with her situation). I can tell you, she hasn't changed a bit -she is still bright, compassionate and spunky. Except now she has an awesome career (part of it is helping people with disabilities but she also did that before her accident) and lives on her own, independently where as teenagers of course we didn't. It's incredibly unfair that this happened to her. But she is a true hero. So, sure, dismiss what I wrote as "yeah I know lots of people have it harder than me BUT it's just so hard to do _____". I just figured I'd share just in case it might get through to you in a different way. Can't blame a girl for trying.

 

Look, I get the message you and others are trying to get accross, with stories like this, but I'm not trying to say I have it worse than people like this. But I think on some level, the environment around us shapes us to be who we are, and unfortunately, the environment I've been in all my life has conditioned me to be the way I am now. It's great when people can find ways to overcome their disabilities or whatever problems they have, but that's because they were conditioned to do so.

 

My environment has always been lousy. I've been raised by a mother and father that are in a loveless marriage, with my mom being a lying, cheating manipulator. I've been raised by a mother and father who both have no semblance of a social life or any kind of life outside of the "daily grind" of life. I've been raised by a family that's filled with nothing but divorces, loveless marriages, cheating, and general unhappiness. I've been raised to fear and/ or have no trust in people. I've been raised to think the world is against me and that happiness isn't an option. This the environment I've been conditioned by for the entirety of my life. There was never any positive reinforcement, there were never any positive role models, I wasn't raised to be a happy, optimistic person. I don't like that fact, and I DO want to be different, I really do, but I just don't know how to "uncondition" myself from everything I've seen over the entire course of my life.

 

I know very very few people who are now with their first loves in a long term relationship.

 

I'm not talking about only ever being with the "first love". I'm just saying that this last girl I liked was the most perfect (within reason, of course, I'm not talking literal) match up for me that I could possibly dream of. I've liked a handful of other girls in the past, but none of them even compare to this girl. What I'm saying is, I feel like this girl was the "peak" for me, the best possible girl I could've ended up with. I question whether I can find a girl even half as good a match for me as her, let alone someone that's AS good a match (or better, even). That's what I'm talking about with the "first place", "second place" stuff. This girl was like the "gold medal". It seems to me that the best I can ever find again is "silver medal", at this point.

[Angler]

I feel like this girl was the "peak" for me, the best possible girl I could've ended up with. I question whether I can find a girl even half as good a match for me as her, let alone someone that's AS good a match (or better, even). That's what I'm talking about with the "first place", "second place" stuff. This girl was like the "gold medal". It seems to me that the best I can ever find again is "silver medal", at this point.

 

Given that there are +/- 3.5 billion females in the world, I would say even your recent #1 was probably at least 5th or 6th place. A local, not absolute, peak if you will.

[Wayfara]

I don't WANT to believe that she's like that

 

they know how to paint an attractive picture of themselves, even if it's all a lie. They can make themselves seem like the most awesome, exciting, fun people around, and whether it's true or not, it seems to work out in a lot of cases.

 

Yes, there are charismatic people who can paint a pretty picture of themselves and make themselves out to be the most awesome, exciting, fun people around. You obviously think this girl is the most awesome girl around depite her obvious character flaws so it seem to work out in a lot of cases as you say. You keep asking why him but you are doing the same thing so reverse the question and you should be able to answer it. Why her? She painted an attractive picture of herself and it was so pretty that you cling to it even when evidence shows a different picture.

[MattW]

I honestly don't think they're going to go off and have secret sex inside the store, even if they did happen to be hooking up somewhere else.

 

I'd hope not, but this guy hinted around to me in the past that he's had sex with another coworker in the store before, so I'm sure he could definitely talk this girl into it.

 

Given that there are +/- 3.5 billion females in the world, I would say even your recent #1 was probably at least 5th or 6th place. A local, not absolute, peak if you will.

 

Eh. I can't imagine there are 4-5 girls out there better for me than this girl. That seems like a stretch at best. Even if they do exist, they won't want to date me (if I can't get this supposed "5th or 6th place" to date me, I have virtually no hope for anyone better).

 

Yes, there are charismatic people who can paint a pretty picture of themselves and make themselves out to be the most awesome, exciting, fun people around. You obviously think this girl is the most awesome girl around depite her obvious character flaws so it seem to work out in a lot of cases as you say. You keep asking why him but you are doing the same thing so reverse the question and you should be able to answer it. Why her? She painted an attractive picture of herself and it was so pretty that you cling to it even when evidence shows a different picture.

 

Hm. Well, your logic certainly makes sense here. The issue I have is that in the case of this girl, my rational and emotional sides are at odds. Rationally, I do see what you're saying. But my emotions are in so much control when it comes to this girl that I just can't imagine myself with anyone but her (or someone that has all the same qualities as her). She's more or less my dream girl. How often does anyone ever meet their dream girl? It's a hard thing to disconnect from.

[blueidealist24]

I'd hope not, but this guy hinted around to me in the past that he's had sex with another coworker in the store before, so I'm sure he could definitely talk this girl into it.

 

 

Eep, he is a piece of work, it sounds like. Well, hopefully if he has sex with anyone else inside the store, he gets fired and you won't have to see him again.

[MattW]

Eep, he is a piece of work, it sounds like. Well, hopefully if he has sex with anyone else inside the store, he gets fired and you won't have to see him again.

 

Yeah, I dunno. He tends to get away with a lot, and it's not like our store has any kind of camera system or any other way for them to get caught anyway.

 

I went into work still feeling agitated and upset, but today, it was just me, her, and a couple other coworkers that aren't involved in any of this. I hate to say it, but getting to spend time with this girl without that other guy around actually soothed me and calmed me down, and I'm feeling okay for now. I got to talk to her and joke around a little, and that really went a long way in helping me unwind.

 

It's bothersome to me that that this girl tends to be involved in things that either make me very upset, or very happy. It's like, I'm constantly shifting from one extreme to another, around her. I'm either super upset that she and her ex are hanging all over each other, or super happy when I get time with her, myself. Ah well. I just wish I could get more shifts like this, instead of the ones where I work with both of them together. v_v

[penelope13]

you need a detox from her. what you describe sounds so unhealthy

[blueidealist24]

Can you switch shifts to avoid him?

[MattW]

Can you switch shifts to avoid him?

 

Not really, no. He and I have very similar availability, so that kind of explains why I'm stuck around him so much, and with her being one of the assistant managers, her schedule often overlaps with ours, as well. On the bright side, aside from a few hours this Saturday, I shouldn't be working with both of them together for at least the next week (unless anything changes unexpectedly). Although, Saturday night is our inventory night, so she, this guy, and some other coworkers will be there until late at night, so even though I won't be around for all of it, I've had nagging thoughts about how she and him will probably go out after they get out of work that night and do whatever.

 

I do hate having to take things week-by-week, though. I mean, it's nice that the next week, after Saturday, won't have any of these shifts I hate so much, but that's just one week. For all I know, the week after will be filled with these awful shifts.

[Wayfara]

She's more or less my dream girl. How often does anyone ever meet their dream girl? It's a hard thing to disconnect from.

 

Would the girl of your dreams be unattracted to you? Would the girl of your dreams lack self respect? Would the girl of your dreams say she hate sleazeballs yet jump at the chance of having sex with a one? Would the girl of your dreams be so unproffesional that she does the naughty at work? So is she really your dream girl?

[MattW]

Would the girl of your dreams be unattracted to you? Would the girl of your dreams lack self respect? Would the girl of your dreams say she hate sleazeballs yet jump at the chance of having sex with a one? Would the girl of your dreams be so unproffesional that she does the naughty at work? So is she really your dream girl?

 

Well, I mean, obviously the whole "not attracted" thing is an issue, but like I said, there's a part of me that doesn't WANT to believe that the rest of that stuff applies to her. I'm clearly referring to the qualities that I do like about her when I call her my "dream girl", and there's a lot of those qualities.

 

See, I've always had a pessimistic approach towards people, that people all suck, are stupid, selfish, hypocritical, untrustworthy, etc. For the last 2-3 years, I've been trying to learn to think differently about people, and see that that's not the case. This girl was a big point for my progress with this last year, because of how amazing she seemed. I just... I hate to even consider that she's hypocritical, and unprofessional, and lacks self respect, and does stupid things, because that just feeds back into my old pessimism about people. She's the first person I've ever really had an enormous amount of faith in, as a person, someone I felt I could respect and think highly of, someone who seemed to have a good head on her shoulders, someone I could absolutely trust with anything. If I accept the possibility that these things might not actually be true, I feel like it just gives me the excuse to continue being pessimistic about people and having no faith in the rest of the world.