The whole "confidence"/ "self-worth" thing

[blueidealist24]

What Blueidealist meant I believe is why would you think you would be the exception to the so many many people who are helped by therapy?

 

I think he was quoting another poster, but I agree.. Matt, your case isn't really that bizarre. A lot of people who are depressed exhibit the same characteristics as you do, and aren't very optimistic about the prospects of therapy. I was optimistic about it and thought it was about the only thing that could help me when I was having depression/anxiety issues but some friends of mine who had issues had to be convinced to go by parents, other friends, etc.

[MattW]

What Blueidealist meant I believe is why would you think you would be the exception to the so many many people who are helped by therapy?

 

Well, because failing seems to be what I do best. It's kind of my "thing", at this point.

 

This might be something do explore with your therapist, why can't you let yourself be helped?

 

Man, I wish I knew the answer to that. I wish I knew why I loathe myself so much and pretty much WANT to be miserable and be a failure.

 

You don't let yourself be saved by therapy. You choose to be active and proactive in making the necessary changes with the therapist as an expert and professional facilitator. Move on from any therapist who tells you he can help you "save yourself".

 

No, I know, it's just a figure of speech, expanding on the idea that I don't believe I'm worth saving/ helping.

 

I think he was quoting another poster, but I agree.. Matt, your case isn't really that bizarre. A lot of people who are depressed exhibit the same characteristics as you do, and aren't very optimistic about the prospects of therapy.

 

Well, so... What do I do about that?

[blueidealist24]

 

Well, so... What do I do about that?

 

Just try therapy anyway, even if you're not optimistic. What if it works? You don't really have anything to LOSE by trying one therapist.

[Batya33]

"Well, because failing seems to be what I do best. It's kind of my "thing", at this point."

 

 

Then why do you feel sorry for yourself that you haven't found anyone? Do you really think that someone would be interested in getting romantically involved with a person whose "thing" is failing? The person who would be into that likely wouldn't be a good candidate for a healthy relationship. When are you going to choose a different "thing?"

[MattW]

Then why do you feel sorry for yourself that you haven't found anyone? Do you really think that someone would be interested in getting romantically involved with a person whose "thing" is failing?

 

Well, because I don't WANT to believe I'm a "failure". I WANT to believe I'm a good, worthwhile person.

 

When are you going to choose a different "thing?"

 

Um... When I find something I don't fail at?

[t1lersm0m1]

My brother used to be 400 pounds and had women lined up for him because he has the confidence of a bull and the charisma of a famous actor. It really is all about confidence.

[Batya33]

Well, because I don't WANT to believe I'm a "failure". I WANT to believe I'm a good, worthwhile person.

 

 

 

Um... When I find something I don't fail at?

 

Well no that's not how it works - by choose a different "thing" I mean find a way to choose a different mindset (yes, by working with a professional) as to how you approach new challenges, opportunities for growth, etc. I don't believe you when you write you want to believe you're a good, worthwhile person -I think you get far more out of the woe-is-me attitude.

 

And as to the point about the 400 pound guy. It's so very true -it's happened to me (with a person who was extremely obese) and to many other people I know - whether it's obesity or some other trait that many believe to be a "negative" -if you have that true confidence it really can carry the day.

[MattW]

Well no that's not how it works - by choose a different "thing" I mean find a way to choose a different mindset (yes, by working with a professional) as to how you approach new challenges, opportunities for growth, etc. I don't believe you when you write you want to believe you're a good, worthwhile person -I think you get far more out of the woe-is-me attitude.

 

Well, sure, maybe on the surface, the negative side of me practically gets off on that so-called "woe is me attitude", but that tiny little flickering flame of a good, positive person that's just barely holding on from being extinguished, that part of me does want to believe I'm that good worthwhile person I want to be. It just feels like a losing battle.

 

In the meantime, I'm still trying to find a professional with an open booking I'm available for. It's starting to get annoying to me how difficult this actually is to find.

 

And I really hate to say it, but on a more "whimsical" note, I've started having these little "fantasies", in which I attempt to sweet talk this girl I work with and manage to win her over yet. There are some particular things I'd really like to say to her, but trust me, you guys don't have to remind me what I'd be setting myself up for. It's just, I want to believe that I may have jumped to conclusions about her and that other guy, and lately, I've kinda picked up on some little things I've heard her say that makes it sound like now that she's had some time apart from her other ex, she's starting to feel a little lonely, but also somewhat myopic about people. I just wish so much I could remind her how much I care, and how much she can trust me and count on me, especially before some other guy drifts in and wins her over. But, yeah, I know how bad the repercussions would be if I weren't successful, so I'm doing what I can to make sure this all just stays a "fantasy". *sigh*

[Rosti87]

You say you don't like to fail and that you want 'guarantees.' Here's a guarantee for you. If you try to approach her as you state above, you are guaranteed to fail. That will not help your confidence/self worth at all.

[Batya33]

I hope it's just whimsical and that you are not going to act on these feelings. Whether she is single or not is irrelevant -she is not with you because she chooses not to date you. She's allowed to do that.

[blueidealist24]

Failing isn't really your thing.. you just see it that way. Did you fail at getting an internship? It seems not. You've managed to hold on to a job for years, right?

[MattW]

Failing isn't really your thing.. you just see it that way. Did you fail at getting an internship? It seems not. You've managed to hold on to a job for years, right?

 

I don't really consider basic things like those as proof against me failing. I mean, my job is as a cashier at a retail store, one of the lowest possible jobs someone can have; you don't exactly have to be "successful" to do that. Heck, the place I got an internship at didn't even read my resume/ cover letter, they were just so desperate for interns that they called me in. I'm not saying that my life is all bad, there are good things in my life, but they're all things that only happened due to chance, not because I worked hard and earned them.

 

That's where the issue lies. No matter how hard I work at something, how much effort I put in, I fail at it. I fail where it matters the most. I fail at getting the things I want the most out of life.

 

she is not with you because she chooses not to date you. She's allowed to do that.

 

I'm not saying she isn't allowed to do that, I'm just saying that sometimes people don't act rationally, sometimes they need a bit of a nudge in the right direction. Heck, if I were in a situation where a girl was into me, and I rejected her, but we remained friends, and after more than a year, I decided I wanted to date her after all, I feel like I'd be sheepish about pursuing that. I mean, would she still be interested? Would she hold it against me that I rejected her before? Would it be too little, too late? It would be an awkward subject to work around, unless there were clear signals on her end giving me the go ahead.

 

And not only that, but I can't help but wonder to what extent this girl knows I'm into her. I mean, obviously she knows I like(d) her and would want to date her, but for all I know, maybe she just thinks I just want to sleep with her? I just wish I could convey to her some how that I see her as so much more than just a sexual partner. I know I'm not the "hottest" guy, nor am I the biggest, strongest guy, to her, but I'm the guy that thinks the world of her, the guy that would never intentionally do anything to hurt her, the guy that would always have her back when she needs it, the guy that is constantly trying to find ways to put a smile on her face because doing so brightens my day that much more, the guy that absolutely thinks she's worth fighting for. I just wish she could know all of that.

 

I hope it's just whimsical and that you are not going to act on these feelings.

 

Yeah... I doubt that I will, because I see no way to even smoothly enter into this discussion with her.

 

Yanno, the reason I'm so hooked on this girl is because I see so much of me in her. The same personality, the same demeanor, the same outlooks on life and the word, the same sense of humor, even the same quirks and odd behaviors. To me, that's what I'm attracted to. I don't tend to meet people that remind me of myself very often, let alone girls. I consider myself a bit of an "oddity" as it is, so that would mean people similar to me are pretty uncommon, meaning I'm not likely to meet them very often, which leads to me not finding most girls personally attractive.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that, also much like me, this girl may have some personal problems of her own. Granted, ours are different (hers allow her to date people, they just tend to be people that don't treat her well; mine don't allow me to date at all). I just really wish she didn't have her issues. On some stupid level, because of the personal connection I have with her and the knowledge of what it's like to have personal problems, I sort of wish I could "save" her from her problems. I know how that sounds. But I really think she and I could've been happy together, and that it would've been good for both of us to be with each other. She might have her issues, but I still see the good in her, and part of me just doesn't want to stop fighting to bring out that good and win her over. Ironic how I'm so set on trying to "save" someone that reminds me so much of myself, yet I can't seem to find the ability to save myself.

 

Thing is, going back to considering myself an "oddity", I've just never felt like I "belong" anywhere, with anyone. I don't mean that in a malicious way towards anyone I've known. I just always felt like I never "fit in", I never "belonged". In a way, that probably has a lot to do with my social issues. But for the first time in my life, being around this girl made me feel like I "belonged" somewhere. I never felt like the "abnormality that doesn't fit in" around her. Now that there's been a bit of a disconnect between she and I (although, again, it's been slightly mended over time), I've started feeling like a bit of an outcast again. I'm still dreading the inevitable event in the next few months when one or both of us find a new job and go our separate ways, because once that happens, I go back to feeling like that abnormality, that guy that doesn't "belong". I hate the idea of letting go of her, because that means letting go of feeling like I belonged, and going back to feeling like I don't.

 

Like I said, I know the repercussions I face if I try again and fail with this girl, and as such, I don't anticipate that I'll ever actually do or say anything. It's just hard not to think about, especially when it seems like she's looking to get back into the dating scene and is overlooking someone that cares so much about her and would treat her so well, not to mention the fact that I don't know how much time left I even have to see her anymore.

 

 

 

I dunno. I'm continuing to look into therapy, and I'll continue to do so. Like I said, it's starting to become frustrating to me at this point that I can't seem to find an appointment that lines up properly with my scheduling.

 

I'm sure I'll continue posting and unintentionally being a nuisance to you all, but I really don't know what's going to end up happening with me, so...

[Angler]

And not only that, but I can't help but wonder to what extent this girl knows I'm into her.

 

She knows.

[Batya33]

"especially when it seems like she's looking to get back into the dating scene and is overlooking someone that cares so much about her and would treat her so well, not to mention the fact that I don't know how much time left I even have to see her anymore."

 

But she's not overlooking, she looked and decided it was a no go - nothing personal, many people do that. Looking to get back in the dating scene has no relevance - if she wanted to be with you she would, even when she was with the other guy (meaning she would have stopped dating him and started dating you). It's a two-way street -people of course want someone thoughtful and caring but they also want someone they're inspired to be caring towards as well. If she just wants someone who wants her she can get a puppy.

[Wonderstruck]

I'm not saying she isn't allowed to do that, I'm just saying that sometimes people don't act rationally, sometimes they need a bit of a nudge in the right direction.

 

This is actually getting really disturbing. You sound completely delusional.

 

Do you honestly believe that she just "doesn't realize" her feelings for you, and she simply needs you to guide her in the "right direction"? How deep in denial ARE YOU? And honestly, that sounds so condescending, as if the only reason that she hasn't shown interest towards you yet is because she's "misguided", and you just need to help her realize that the logical and correct conclusion is that you two belong together.

 

Why can't you just accept that she has absolutely NO INTEREST IN YOU? This alternative theory that you're spinning in your head is beyond creepy.

 

 

And not only that, but I can't help but wonder to what extent this girl knows I'm into her.

 

She's WELL-AWARE, trust me. Your co-workers are well-aware. Her ex-boyfriend was well-aware. You even got into trouble at work over it. SHE KNOWS.

 

I mean, obviously she knows I like(d) her and would want to date her, but for all I know, maybe she just thinks I just want to sleep with her? I just wish I could convey to her some how that I see her as so much more than just a sexual partner. I know I'm not the "hottest" guy, nor am I the biggest, strongest guy, to her, but I'm the guy that thinks the world of her, the guy that would never intentionally do anything to hurt her, the guy that would always have her back when she needs it, the guy that is constantly trying to find ways to put a smile on her face because doing so brightens my day that much more, the guy that absolutely thinks she's worth fighting for. I just wish she could know all of that.

 

She doesn't care. She's not interested in you, so what does any of that other stuff matter? Again, as we've repeated ad nauseum, being a caring person who adores somebody is not enough to make the person have feelings for you in return.

[MattW]

Glitz, why do you always insist on putting words in my mouth? Look, all I'm saying is that I believe it's possible that someone can not necessarily be unattracted to a particular individual, but just hasn't quite seen enough to really bring that attraction to the forefront of their mind. I'm not calling anyone misguided, nor am I saying I need to show this girl that she's wrong and doesn't know what she really wants, or whatever. All I'm saying is that I sometimes find myself wondering if perhaps she may have SOME interest, just not enough yet to say "Yes, definitely", and if there's anything I can say or do to get her there. That's really all I was trying to suggest. The world isn't so cut and dry, black and white, as some of you make it out to be.

 

Anyway, whatever. I already said it's all just thoughts, so what difference does it make? I welcome any and all input, but I really don't appreciate certain people constantly putting words in my mouth and twisting my words around just to try to vilify me. Glitz, if you're insistent on seeing me as some kind of horrible dangerous psychopathic monster, go ahead, but if that's what you're here to do, then please stop posting in my topics.

 

I mean, what do you want me to say? It's not like I'm proud of myself, here. Yes, I'm hopelessly head over heels for a girl I know I'll never be with, and I'm marred by problems of depression, self-doubt, and the idea that I'm doomed to be alone for the rest of my life. You think I'm not well aware of the way things are? You think I don't hate myself for having so much difficulty in fixing myself? But no, I'm sure you'll just pick and choose parts of my posts and look for some twisted meaning in my words just so you can continue to tell me what a horrible piece of **** I am. I don't even know why I bother.

[Batya33]

No, it is not black and white but the gray area part -i.e. the possibility that she will become attracted to you based on something you do - is so remote as to be unrealistic. And given your negative "I'm a failure" mindset it's particularly dangerous for you to attempt to pursue her again because of how you will react to her declining to go on a date with you.

[Wonderstruck]

Glitz, why do you always insist on putting words in my mouth? Look, all I'm saying is that I believe it's possible that someone can not necessarily be unattracted to a particular individual, but just hasn't quite seen enough to really bring that attraction to the forefront of their mind. I'm not calling anyone misguided, nor am I saying I need to show this girl that she's wrong and doesn't know what she really wants, or whatever. All I'm saying is that I sometimes find myself wondering if perhaps she may have SOME interest, just not enough yet to say "Yes, definitely", and if there's anything I can say or do to get her there. That's really all I was trying to suggest. The world isn't so cut and dry, black and white, as some of you make it out to be.

 

I don't put words in your mouth. I respond to your posts exactly as you write them. You yourself said that "sometimes people don't act rationally" and "sometimes they need a bit of a nudge in the right direction". So, you're saying that she may not have realized her feelings for you yet because she may be "acting irrationally" and she just needs "a bit of a nudge in the right direction". Sorry, how is that NOT implying that she's misguided? How is that NOT condescending?

 

After the fact you always say "Don't put words in my mouth!", but I'm only working with exactly what you're giving me.

 

Anyway, whatever. I already said it's all just thoughts, so what difference does it make? I welcome any and all input, but I really don't appreciate certain people constantly putting words in my mouth and twisting my words around just to try to vilify me. Glitz, if you're insistent on seeing me as some kind of horrible dangerous psychopathic monster, go ahead, but if that's what you're here to do, then please stop posting in my topics.

 

Stop being so melodramatic. Did I say that? Now who's putting words into who's mouth?

 

I don't think that you're a psychopathic monster (just for the record, psychopaths are incapable of forming emotional attachments to people, so the last thing you would be is a psychopath). I DO think that this infatuation is getting extremely unhealthy and obsessive, and that you're so incapable of accepting that this girl has no interest in you that you've started engaging in vivid delusions and buying into them. Anything to avoid accepting the painful reality that she DOES NOT WANT YOU.

 

The one thing that we do agree on is that I should stop posting in your threads for good. I just don't have the patience required to read the same posts over and over again, and know that no matter what ANYONE says here, you absolutely REFUSE to change a single thing about yourself or your situation. Yet you have no problem continuing to create threads, continuing to ask for advice, and refusing to follow through on ANY of it. So, what's the point?

 

I honestly think that you create these threads as an excuse to talk about this girl. EVERY SINGLE THREAD, no matter what the subject matter, ends up with you lamenting about how much you adore her, how you can't understand why she doesn't feel the same, and how unfair it all is. Look at this thread, for example. The subject heading is "The whole "confidence/self-worth" thing", and people started giving you solid advice about how to increase your confidence/self-worth, and why that's so important, but rather than take any of that advice, you jumped on the first opportunity to derail the thread onto the subject of this girl. Because that's all you REALLY want to talk about. How many times have you repeated that "gold medal/silver medal/bronze medal" analogy practically verbatim in various threads?

 

These threads are not actually about you getting better, they're about you figuring out how to win over this girl, despite the fact that everyone has told you repeatedly that she's NOT INTERESTED.

 

Someone giving you advice on improving your confidence and sense of self-worth gets a one or two line dismissive response from you. Someone responding to something you said about this girl gets a three paragraph diatribe from you. It's not hard to see what's going on here. And honestly, if all you're interested in is analyzing the situation with this girl to death, then it's for the best that I bow out, because I have nothing new to contribute except for SHE'S NOT INTERESTED, PLEASE JUST ACCEPT IT GRACIOUSLY.

 

I'm out.

[bulletproof]

Glitz, why do you always insist on putting words in my mouth? Look, all I'm saying is that I believe it's possible that someone can not necessarily be unattracted to a particular individual, but just hasn't quite seen enough to really bring that attraction to the forefront of their mind. I'm not calling anyone misguided, nor am I saying I need to show this girl that she's wrong and doesn't know what she really wants, or whatever. All I'm saying is that I sometimes find myself wondering if perhaps she may have SOME interest, just not enough yet to say "Yes, definitely", and if there's anything I can say or do to get her there.

 

You can wonder that all you want, but it does seem as though she has no interest.

 

Some might say that you can't make someone love you, and to some extent, that is quite true; however if you really want to know what you can "say or do to get her there" (which you really have no business doing, but I'll indulge for the sake of this argument), then I'll tell you what *might* work: go to therapy; learn how to make friends and build a support system; stop hating yourself (and stop being argumentative, stubborn, and overdramatic); and most importantly, leave this girl alone.

 

There's your answer.

[MattW]

Yeah, okay, I've admitted that I'm having a lot of trouble with my feelings for this girl, and no matter how I look at things, I can't help but circle back to her. I don't mean for my topics to go in that direction, but I can't approach dating and even just friendship without being reminded of the girl I'm crazy about.

 

I'm not proud of that fact, I'm not happy that I'm stuck on her, that I can't see myself meeting anyone as good as her, that I can't see myself having the future I want. I'm desperate to not let go, because letting go means accepting the very real possibility that I'll never meet someone else I like and that I'll be alone for the rest of my life.

 

And given your negative "I'm a failure" mindset it's particularly dangerous for you to attempt to pursue her again because of how you will react to her declining to go on a date with you.

 

I guess, but I've kind of already felt that way about myself, so why would it be any different than last time?

[t1lersm0m1]

There are PLENTY of women out there. You're young. Trust me, this is not the last girl in the world.

[MattW]

There are PLENTY of women out there. You're young. Trust me, this is not the last girl in the world.

 

Yeah, people seem to say this a lot, but how true is that really? 25 really isn't really young anymore. I can't believe how fast life is already going by. 2013 is already coming to an end, and it seems like it has just started. I don't have as much time as I'd like to think I do.

 

I know so many people that are getting engaged, married, having kids... I can't even get my life started, and everyone around me is already moving into phases of their lives that I can't even imagine.

[bulletproof]

Yeah, people seem to say this a lot, but how true is that really? 25 really isn't really young anymore.

 

Perhaps people say it a lot because it is true.

[Rosti87]

LOL! Wait til you are 60, 70... you wont say that. 25 in this modern age of longer life expectancy is YOUNG. You have plenty of time to improve yourself. PLUS you are a man. Men have the advantage of starting marriages and children later than women. If you were 65 years old and were lamenting about time, then I would empathize. You're a 'baby' in life as far as I'm concerned.

[blueidealist24]

Please don't make any moves on this girl again. She knows that you're interested and she simply isn't. I think you might be imagining that she has more things in common with you than she really does. To me, she sounds pretty flaky while you sound rather deep. But anyway, keep in mind what happened at work the last time you approached her in a romantic manner.. you don't want that to happen again. Really. It could be worse this time (ie. firing).