Can't see past the anger anymore...

[allcity]

Listen to everyone, man! They're all right. Clearly you have a strong mix of fear of change, fear of facing up to your problems, and a totally circular way of thinking where you spin every positive suggestion into a negative, in order to avoid having to try it.

 

As someone else here said (I think) this is the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're accepting no active responsibility for your own life or happiness and yet you're clearly very unhappy with your life and lack of happiness. Surely it's time to take the reigns.

 

And if your upbringing etc was pretty bad and laid a very unstable foundation for your adult life, then sure it'll make things harder to change, but it's still very possible to do. It'll just require even more courage and willingness on your part to change.

 

Speak to a professional and/or read some self-help books and/or stuff online. You're far from the only person in the world that's ever felt and acted like this and there are plenty of ways you can help yourself. You've just got to want to and to stop finding excuses.

 

Or you can wake up next year and the year after feeling exactly the same.

 

And don't make the mistake that many frustrated guys here make of thinking that a woman is the answer for them, if they could just find someone to love them. All these attitudes of yours/theirs would absolutely sabotage any relationship's potential.

 

As hard and maybe depressing as it might be to hear, getting a few dates is actually the easy part of a relationship. It's keeping the relationship going that really takes work and is extremely closely tied to how well we handle our problems and are able to deal with the inevitable obstacles that life throws up.

 

So think of self-help, therapy etc as a triple-whammy, as it'll help you feel happier now, it'll help your chances of attracting someone and it'll absolutely help your chances of keeping the relationship happy, healthy and stable once you do find it.

 

Or you can be like the group of guys here at ENA (no names mentioned, but take a look around the dating threads and you'll know who) that stay here year after year posting the same elementary school questions, then avoid every bit of advice they get, and then keep on posting as if that's what will solve things for them, rather than just wasting their lives.

 

You can ask for advice as much as you want! And you can receive advice as much as you want. Until you start taking the advice and changing the course of your thoughts and life, though, your life won't change. And it can start to change TODAY if you choose to take the lead and change it.

[Wayfara]

there is zero chance any girl will ever be physically attracted to me. I'm not physically attractive at all, and I'm not talking about stuff I can change, like weight or shape. I cannot attract a girl based on physical attraction.

 

Says the guy who had an extremely steamy IM conversation with a woman last weekend, this after you had already shown each other pictures of yourselves.

 

You really think she would engage in a steamy conversation like that if she had no physical interest in you whatsoever? That will say unless you are convinced she's some sort of an attention junkie or scammer, and I don't see why you would want to meet her if this is what you believe. Maybe she is blowing you off, maybe the attraction isn't strong enough to act on, but you have had second thoughts too, people don't always act on their attraction, doesn't mean it's not there. You seem so eager to say no girl could ever be physically attracted to you even when the evidence indicates otherwise so your analyzing method to come to this conclusion seems pretty faulty to me.

[MattW]

Says the guy who had an extremely steamy IM conversation with a woman last weekend, this after you had already shown each other pictures of yourselves.

 

You really think she would engage in a steamy conversation like that if she had no physical interest in you whatsoever? That will say unless you are convinced she's some sort of an attention junkie or scammer, and I don't see why you would want to meet her if this is what you believe. Maybe she is blowing you off, maybe the attraction isn't strong enough to act on, but you have had second thoughts too, people don't always act on their attraction, doesn't mean it's not there. You seem so eager to say no girl could ever be physically attracted to you even when the evidence indicates otherwise so your analyzing method to come to this conclusion seems pretty faulty to me.

 

Heh, I kinda figured someone would bring that up after I made that last post. I mean, I kinda think, though, that she may just be taking what she can get. I have urges, she has urges, neither of us are having our urges fulfilled one way or another, and we just happened to cross paths. In other words, I don't know that I think she's specifically physically attracted to me, but rather, she and I are both just looking for the same thing and we just happened to be at the right place at the right time.

 

Regardless, I still don't believe "physical attraction" is a need I can ever meet for a great girl. At best, I could get a girl that's so desperate for anyone that looks are completely unimportant, but there's never going to be a good worthwhile girl that looks and me and is attracted to me on a physical level.

[Slimpee]

Just an FYI, women aren't nearly as shallow as we are. Yes, physical attraction is important but there are countless stories here from women that begin "At first I wasn't all that attracted, but then I got to know him." Or "He's not my usual type, but there's just something about him."

 

Men, on the other hand, say things like "The first time i saw her i, i was blown away."

 

Were lucky because women dont expect us to have six packs and chiseled features. As long as you take care of your body, develop good hygiene, and dress reasonably well, you're on the right track. Trust me on this.

 

Granted, if you're going after super hot women...that's a different story.

[Thorshammer]

Just an FYI, women aren't nearly as shallow as we are. Yes, physical attraction is important but there are countless stories here from women that begin "At first I wasn't all that attracted, but then I got to know him." Or "He's not my usual type, but there's just something about him."

 

Men, on the other hand, say things like "The first time i saw her i, i was blown away."

 

Were lucky because women dont expect us to have six packs and chiseled features. As long as you take care of your body, develop good hygiene, and dress reasonably well, you're on the right track. Trust me on this.

 

Granted, if you're going after super hot women...that's a different story.

 

No, women scan for behavioral traits, some go pass this and scan for what resources you bring. It doesnt make them less shallow.

 

I've heard women bragging about what their boyfriend does for a living, or how funny and confident he is. Those are all traits as well, and i can see less successful men, or less social dominant men yelling how women are shallow too.

 

It does balance out. If anything, women do look at looks too, so we have to have everything together in some cases.

 

I would like to agree with everyone so that i wont fuel the fire, but i was in his shoes when i was younger. I think you need to build your confidence up. You might lack initiative and ignore signs because you dont have the experience to see what is GO and what is STOP when you chat with a woman. I was in your shoes, women just laughed at me when they realized i lacked confidence, now i can go on a date and break out into a salsa solo for no reason just because i heard a guy drive by playing my music- the girl has to hit me in the head to feel any hint of nervousness or insecurity.

[Slimpee]

No, women scan for behavioral traits, some go pass this and scan for what resources you bring. It doesnt make them less shallow.

 

The OP was talking about physical attraction so that's what I was referring to as "shallow". People have to judge on some level...i'm just saying that men place a higher value on appearance than women do.

[Thorshammer]

The OP was talking about physical attraction so that's what I was referring to as "shallow". People have to judge on some level...i'm just saying that men place a higher value on appearance than women do.

 

Im basing this on his first post about him lacking confidence. His whole first post was focused on certain behavior being attractive/unattractive.

[Slimpee]

Im basing this on his first post about him lacking confidence. His whole first post was focused on certain behavior being attractive/unattractive.

 

I was replying to the second paragraph of post #104. I was on my phone and being lazy with quoting. The entire thread is about confidence and deeper issues...I was just responding to OP saying that no woman will ever find him physically attractive.

[Wayfara]

I kinda think, though, that she may just be taking what she can get. I have urges, she has urges, neither of us are having our urges fulfilled one way or another, and we just happened to cross paths.

 

This is off topic but it seems strange to me how someone you are not physically attracted to would be able to fulfill your physical urges, having to be physical with someone you don't want to be physical with would just feel traumatic to me. However I know guys who say they sometimes can have sex with girls they are not attracted to just to fulfill their needs, they just get really drunk and pretend it's someone else. Is this a similar case?

 

I still don't believe "physical attraction" is a need I can ever meet for a great girl. At best, I could get a girl that's so desperate for anyone that looks are completely unimportant

 

Finding someone attractive and feeling attracted to someone are not the same thing, you can have one thing without the other.

 

Physical attraction = the thought of being physical is attractive

Physical attractive = the physical features are attractive

 

Sometimes you are attracted to someone without finding them particular attractive and sometimes you find them attractive but you are not attracted. What is important isn't that a girl thinks you are a stunner but that she is drawn to you.

 

there's never going to be a good worthwhile girl that looks and me and is attracted to me on a physical level.

 

Physical attraction isn't always instant, sometimes it can grow over time. Someone you don't initially find attractive could have a really cool personality that draws you in which later transforms into an attraction on a physical level.

 

I'm curious though, if you don't believe it's possible for girls to be physically attracted to you why did you ask this girl out thinking she couldn't be? Did you hope physical attraction wouldn't be something she wanted to feel for boyfriend? That she would like you enough to let you be physical intimate with her despite not being physically attracted to you (which would make the intimacy just something she puts up with)? It's one thing to ask someone out in hopes that the attraction would be mutual and another to ask someone out in hopes that they would agree to be with you regardless of attraction.

[MattW]

Just an FYI, women aren't nearly as shallow as we are. Yes, physical attraction is important but there are countless stories here from women that begin "At first I wasn't all that attracted, but then I got to know him." Or "He's not my usual type, but there's just something about him."

 

Were lucky because women dont expect us to have six packs and chiseled features. As long as you take care of your body, develop good hygiene, and dress reasonably well, you're on the right track. Trust me on this.

 

Well, that's what I'd LIKE to believe, but in practice, I don't feel like I ever see that work out for myself. I have a pretty average body type, but I generally take care of myself, and my hygiene, and I dress as well as I can with what suits me. But I don't feel like that actually matters, at least not for me. I mean, I'm extremely short, I have the face of a ten year old boy, and I have a pretty high voice; most people look at me and, based on looks alone, see me as a "little boy" rather than a "man". The fact of the matter is, no woman wants to date a "little boy". It doesn't matter if I'm mature, well-spoken, if I have other good qualities, I'm forever seen as a "little boy" based on things I have no control over.

 

Granted, if you're going after super hot women...that's a different story.

 

I don't. Honestly, if I think a girl is "hot" (I use the quotes because I'm referring to "hot" in terms of what society in general sees it as), I don't even consider the thought of her and I together. I tend to prefer girls that lean more towards what society would deem as "average".

 

I would like to agree with everyone so that i wont fuel the fire, but i was in his shoes when i was younger. I think you need to build your confidence up. You might lack initiative and ignore signs because you dont have the experience to see what is GO and what is STOP when you chat with a woman. I was in your shoes, women just laughed at me when they realized i lacked confidence, now i can go on a date and break out into a salsa solo for no reason just because i heard a guy drive by playing my music- the girl has to hit me in the head to feel any hint of nervousness or insecurity.

 

Im basing this on his first post about him lacking confidence. His whole first post was focused on certain behavior being attractive/unattractive.

 

I was replying to the second paragraph of post #104. I was on my phone and being lazy with quoting. The entire thread is about confidence and deeper issues...I was just responding to OP saying that no woman will ever find him physically attractive.

 

See, despite how I come accross on here, I still question the notion that I "lack confidence". I'd say, out in the real world, I am "confident", I just don't display it the way a lot of other people seem to. I feel I have more of a "quiet" confidence. Heck, the other day, one of my classmates noted how laid back and "chill" I am, and while he and I aren't super close, I don't act any differently around him than I do anyone else. I took that as a compliment, because that's how I want to be seen, that's how I want to project myself. I guess "quiet confidence" just isn't as attractive and appealing to women...?

 

This is off topic but it seems strange to me how someone you are not physically attracted to would be able to fulfill your physical urges, having to be physical with someone you don't want to be physical with would just feel traumatic to me. However I know guys who say they sometimes can have sex with girls they are not attracted to just to fulfill their needs, they just get really drunk and pretend it's someone else. Is this a similar case?

 

Hm. This might be tough to properly explain. Let me put it this way... I have certain "fetishes" that arouse me in a sexual way, but they're not qualities I would actually want in a partner that I'd be dating and having a proper relationship with. For instance, I've sometimes fantasized about being with an older woman, and this woman fulfills that fetish. I wouldn't want to actually date someone that's 10+ years older than me, but it's kind of a sexual thrill. Does that make sense? In other words, this woman simply fulfills a few little fetishes I've always had, but beyond that, she's not someone I'd really want to date.

 

Now, why she is on board with having sex with me, I don't know. Again, I assume it was simply a matter of us both looking for the same thing and happening to be at the right place at the right time. Perhaps I fulfill certain "fetishes" for her, like she does for me. Perhaps she simply gets a kick out of "deflowering" a virgin and "teaching" him how to do it well. Who knows? But I don't necessarily see it as her being physically attracted to me.

 

Finding someone attractive and feeling attracted to someone are not the same thing, you can have one thing without the other.

 

Physical attraction = the thought of being physical is attractive

Physical attractive = the physical features are attractive

 

Sometimes you are attracted to someone without finding them particular attractive and sometimes you find them attractive but you are not attracted. What is important isn't that a girl thinks you are a stunner but that she is drawn to you.

 

Physical attraction isn't always instant, sometimes it can grow over time. Someone you don't initially find attractive could have a really cool personality that draws you in which later transforms into an attraction on a physical level.

 

You... kinda confused me with that first bit, there, but again, that's what I'm getting at, I'll never be able to get a girl "drawn" to me based on looks/ physical attraction. I HAVE to rely on personality and other factors to do the trick, but even when I'm at my best, those things still don't seem to count for much. Let me once again use the last girl I liked as an example.

 

She and I actually knew each other for a while before I liked her. We hadn't ever really talked much, though. When we first met, I must've picked up on something, because I remember randomly thinking about dating her, but I wrote it off, and honestly, I didn't find her very attractive physically. Not that she looks bad; she's actually in pretty good shape, but I like a cute face, and she didn't do much for me that way, and she also has a very noticeable birthmark on her arm that irked me. I wrote that thought off pretty quickly, and didn't give it another thought, until almost a year later, when she started talking to me. I didn't think much of it, at the time, but she started becoming more and more persistent trying to talk to me, and stuff. If I was off doing my own thing, she'd come find me and want to talk and goof off. Before I liked her, I actually thought she was into me, and that kind of weirded me out, at first. The more I started to see her personality, and get to know her, I started realizing how much I liked her, and once I realized I liked her, I became physically attracted to her, as well, not even thinking about the things that turned me off before. The more I started opening up back to her, she would get uncharacteristically cutesy and girly about me doing so, which further added to my belief that she was interested. Then, of course, I eventually asked her out, and it all went to hell.

 

But I understand that can happen, as it happened for me with this girl. I just don't understand why it never happens the other way around, why I never develop a good dynamic with a girl, and get her to see me in a way that makes her want to date me.

 

I'm curious though, if you don't believe it's possible for girls to be physically attracted to you why did you ask this girl out thinking she couldn't be? Did you hope physical attraction wouldn't be something she wanted to feel for boyfriend? That she would like you enough to let you be physical intimate with her despite not being physically attracted to you (which would make the intimacy just something she puts up with)? It's one thing to ask someone out in hopes that the attraction would be mutual and another to ask someone out in hopes that they would agree to be with you regardless of attraction.

 

Because at the time, I was much more optimistic. I thought I could definitely charm a girl with my personality, and that I wasn't so physically unappealing that it would be an issue. But ever since things went to hell with her, I've completely lost sight of all of that. I started noticing the kind of guys she WAS attracted to, the guys she DID date. I started noticing the kind of guys other girls I know/ knew were dating and finding themselves attracted to. I started to realize just how little I can actually compete with other guys in terms of attracting a quality woman. It was one big giant domino effect that has led me to the conclusion that my good qualities do not matter, and that I'll never find a happy healthy relationship with mutual attraction due to the things I lack.

[Blue Spiral]

I started noticing the kind of guys she WAS attracted to, the guys she DID date. I started noticing the kind of guys other girls I know/ knew were dating and finding themselves attracted to.

 

That was a painful moment for me, as well. When I was younger, female friends would tell me to just keep being myself, that I'd eventually find someone, etc. Except...the guys they were attracted to were 100% the opposite of me, and it was the same with all their friends. "Girls love guys like you! I mean, not girls like me, but probably some other girls, somewhere." When it comes to figuring out what people really like and value, pay attention to their actions, not their words.

 

One thing that helps is to consider a girl's type and history. If she tends to be attracted to guys that aren't like you, don't think that you're going to be the exception. Playing the numbers doesn't always work. You're better off competing for the two or three girls that like guys like you (and they're out there, I guarantee you), as opposed to thinking you can find a girl amongst the hundreds that don't like guys like you, or that you'll have to work extra-hard to win over. Find someone you're naturally compatible with, not someone that will constantly be drawn to something you're not.

[allcity]

^

Great advice! Making smarter choices is definitely a much better plan than ever trying to aim for people that will likely never be into your type (whatever type that may be).

 

That said, a lot of people's 'type' can change over time, especially if they find that their type is actually no good for them and that they've been messing up their own chance of happiness for years by choosing the wrong guys.

[simplexity]

Ask this important question to yourself, If you were the opposite sex, would you date yourself? or will you fall in love with you?

Before you try to find the solution in finding someone else for you, just look and see within you and ask whether being the you now will give reason to someone to fall for you hope this helps

[Wayfara]

I don't feel like that actually matters, at least not for me.

 

most people look at me and, based on looks alone, see me as a "little boy" rather than a "man". The fact of the matter is, no woman wants to date a "little boy". It doesn't matter if I'm mature, well-spoken, if I have other good qualities, I'm forever seen as a "little boy"

 

I don't remember you sending me and the rest of the female population pics asking if we all see you as a little boy so basically you feel that way and then you make assumptions on that feeling. Even the fattest man in the world got himself a girlfriend so I very much doubt your chances would be absolute zero when it wasn't even for him. So maybe you will find someone or maybe you won't, no one can really tell.

 

I still question the notion that I "lack confidence".

 

You can be confident in your job or in school but insecure in your love life, confidence in one area doesn't always translate in confidence in other areas.

 

Anyway, someone who says they would date anyone who liked them regardless how they felt about them isn't a person I would call confident. Letting your desperation get the best of you so you would lead someone on just to have someone to be with (making you both miserable in the process) would be signs of an insecure jerk. You might not have done it yet but you say you probably would given the chance so it seems you have it in you to be this desperate, and desperation is pretty much the antipode of confidence.

 

You also say in this thread you can't see past the anger anymore and while you blame the universe and not the girl it doesn't take away that rejection/not getting the girl makes you angry. And to be honest, if I rejected a guy and he instead of cursing me he cursed the universe I would still see that as him being angry with me as it was my rejection that angered him so him blaming the universe for my actions is kinda anger misdirected. Anyhow, in my opinion, if you were really feeling confident a rejection wouldn't make you angry.

 

the other day, one of my classmates noted how laid back and "chill" I am, and while he and I aren't super close, I don't act any differently around him than I do anyone else.

 

If chill and laid back is the image you always project I don't think your co-workers would have gone to management when you were sad about this girl not liking you back (sorry it happened to you though, I do understand they overreacted and made a huge mess for you).

 

I guess "quiet confidence" just isn't as attractive and appealing to women...?

 

Quiet confidence is attractive but a list of attractive traits won't make someone attracted to you by its own, there have to be some chemistry between you too (romantic connection that both you and the girl feel).

 

I've sometimes fantasized about being with an older woman, and this woman fulfills that fetish.

 

Perhaps I fulfill certain "fetishes" for her, like she does for me. Perhaps she simply gets a kick out of "deflowering" a virgin and "teaching" him how to do it well.

 

Physical attraction simply means you want to be physical with that person and, in my opinion, it doesn't matter if it's based on looks or on a fetish. Maybe it's too early to tell if you are physically attracted to her as you haven't her in person yet but at very least one could say you are attracted to the idea of her, she probably to the idea of you.

 

that's what I'm getting at, I'll never be able to get a girl "drawn" to me based on looks/ physical attraction. I HAVE to rely on personality and other factors to do the trick

 

Physical attraction isn't about looks, it's about wanting to kiss and have sex with the person. So when people say physical attraction is essential, they mean it's essential that the girl likes the idea of being physical with you and vice versa. Hot looks are not the only thing that can create physical attraction, sometimes it's about their personality, their swagger etc etc. So what I tried to explain is that if you get someone hot for you because of your personality that is still physical attraction (for wanting to be physical with you).

 

at the time, I was much more optimistic. I thought I could definitely charm a girl with my personality, and that I wasn't so physically unappealing that it would be an issue. But ever since things went to hell with her, I've completely lost sight of all of that.

 

So one girl not getting charmed is enough to convince you that no girl could ever be charmed?

 

I started noticing the kind of guys she WAS attracted to, the guys she DID date.

 

Well when someone rejects you it only makes sense that their type wouldn't be you (likely the cause of the rejection) and therefore their exes wouldn't resemble you very much, like if you had gotten rejected by a lesbian you would have noticed that the people she dates are all of female gender.

 

I started noticing the kind of guys other girls I know/ knew were dating and finding themselves attracted to. I started to realize just how little I can actually compete with other guys in terms of attracting a quality woman.

 

As you have said it has only been like three or four girls in your life that you have been interested in dating I'm assuming these girls weren't among them so why would their choice of men matter to you? They are not your type and you found out you were not their type, unless you want them to hopelessly pine over you like you do over this girl that's a good thing. Would it make sense to you for them to get upset over you liking snarky girls and not girls more like them and be like "but I can't compete with that!" when they are not attracted to you either?

 

It was one big giant domino effect that has led me to the conclusion that my good qualities do not matter, and that I'll never find a happy healthy relationship with mutual attraction due to the things I lack.

 

You come to this concluion after getting rejected by one girl you like and noticing that a bunch women you don't want to date don't date your type. Most people don't hit gold on their first try and the type of guy girls you don't want to date go for is immaterial as you don't want to date them anyway.

[MattW]

I don't remember you sending me and the rest of the female population pics asking if we all see you as a little boy so basically you feel that way and then you make assumptions on that feeling.

 

Sure, but enough people have made that judgment about me and said it to my face offline that I HAVE to assume that's how the world generally sees me. If it were something I've heard once or twice, that's no biggie, but people make comments quite often about thinking I'm under the age of 12 just from looking at me/ hearing my voice. If that many people are saying it, that's a pretty good indication as to how women see me, too. And again, no girl wants to date someone that they see as a "little boy".

 

You can be confident in your job or in school but insecure in your love life, confidence in one area doesn't always translate in confidence in other areas.

 

Okay, but wouldn't people have to date me (or at least, have extensive conversations with me about my "love life") in order to see my insecurities there? I mean, if it can really be situational, like you're saying, how does anyone know until they've actually seen me that way? Why does the confidence I have now not draw people in?

 

Anyway, someone who says they would date anyone who liked them regardless how they felt about them isn't a person I would call confident. Letting your desperation get the best of you so you would lead someone on just to have someone to be with (making you both miserable in the process) would be signs of an insecure jerk. You might not have done it yet but you say you probably would given the chance so it seems you have it in you to be this desperate, and desperation is pretty much the antipode of confidence.

 

I see what you're saying, but a lot of people end up "settling", right? I don't WANT to "settle", and to be honest, I think that's a big reason why I've been so resistant to just dating whoever, in the past, because I know that if get into a habit of dating a person, even if I'm not ACTUALLY that into them, I'll keep doing it, because at least I'll have someone in my life, and that will be easier than having to go look around for someone I'm more into. But again, I don't WANT to settle in this way, and that's why I don't make more of an effort to just go on dates with as many girls as I can "for fun", because I don't want to let myself fall into that kind of behavior. That's why I only make the effort to date when I find a girl I REALLY like; but then, that happens so infrequently that I end up getting too attached to those few girls, which creates other problems for me.

 

If chill and laid back is the image you always project I don't think your co-workers would have gone to management when you were sad about this girl not liking you back (sorry it happened to you though, I do understand they overreacted and made a huge mess for you).

 

To be honest, now that I know a little more about the situation, I think what happened is that one or two coworkers gossiped to her about how I was feeling, and she was a little uncomfortable and would've handled things with me personally, but then she told her boyfriend about it, and he pushed her to go to management. The few times I crossed paths with this guy when he was dating her, I could tell he knew, and he always sort of gave me this "death glare" every time he was around. It was extremely uncomfortable, really. I don't think he ever liked me very much before he dated her, and I think that when he found out I was into the girl he was dating and "acting weird", he got super territorial and pushed her to go to management. That's just my guess, though.

 

Physical attraction isn't about looks, it's about wanting to kiss and have sex with the person. So when people say physical attraction is essential, they mean it's essential that the girl likes the idea of being physical with you and vice versa. Hot looks are not the only thing that can create physical attraction, sometimes it's about their personality, their swagger etc etc. So what I tried to explain is that if you get someone hot for you because of your personality that is still physical attraction (for wanting to be physical with you).

 

Fine, but clearly I'm not able to make this happen for myself. Again, even when I'm at my best and my most charming, my most confident, my most fun and playful, and all of that, I'm still not seen as "attractive". So I just don't get what else it takes. I don't understand what it is that I'm lacking, I don't understand why I just cannot be the guy that a girl wants to be with.

 

So one girl not getting charmed is enough to convince you that no girl could ever be charmed?

 

It stung the most because of well we seemed to hit it off, yes. With me and her, it was like when you watch a movie or a show where there's a budding romance between two people. That's how it felt, and obviously, I've always convinced myself "Oh, that's just movies/ TV, that doesn't happen in real life", and then it happens for me, and it's amazing, and then... she says no, we go through a rough patch platonically, she dates some other guy that ends up mistreating her, and now we're back to being somewhat flirty with each other. It's just rough for me because this is the most I've ever liked a girl, this is the most "elated" I've ever felt about being with another person, and I just don't get to ever really see those feelings through.

 

Then on top of that, I try to use online dating as a means of meeting other people and just trying to get myself out there, seeing other girls, so I can get over the one I really liked, only for me to write to over 100 girls, and not get a single date out of it.

 

I just... feel like "the writing is on the wall", at this point. How can I not? As it is, I've gone 7-ish years without having a girl express even the vaguest interest in dating me. Then I find an amazing girl that seems to be into me, only I find out she's actually not. Then I try to find another "fish in the sea", and after contacting 100+ girls, I still can't get a date. That's pretty rough, and after all that, I see no good reason NOT to question my ability to attract a woman.

 

As you have said it has only been like three or four girls in your life that you have been interested in dating I'm assuming these girls weren't among them so why would their choice of men matter to you? They are not your type and you found out you were not their type, unless you want them to hopelessly pine over you like you do over this girl that's a good thing. Would it make sense to you for them to get upset over you liking snarky girls and not girls more like them and be like "but I can't compete with that!" when they are not attracted to you either?

 

Well, because I took a step back from the kind of girl I DID want to date, and started looking at women in general, to see the kinds of guy they were interested in. Again, going back to the idea of "settling", it's crossed my mind plenty of times that perhaps I'll just never be able to be with the kind of girl I WANT to be with, and perhaps I'll have to be with a different kind of girl in order to have that in my life. So I was looking for perspective on what kind of men women are attracted to. And when I look around, I generally see the same thing -- guys with qualities that I'll just never have.

[Wayfara]

If that many people are saying it, that's a pretty good indication as to how women see me, too. And again, no girl wants to date someone that they see as a "little boy".

 

So many mistake you for a boy, but do everyone? Nobody have assumed/guessed you to be an adult too? You say women wouldn't want to date someone they see as a little boy ... Well most women wouldn't want steamy conversations with someone they see as a little boy either so do you think this woman you have been sexting with has been is using you as a safe way to explore her secret attraction to children? Or might it be possible that she doesn't see you as a little boy? If yes, if it's possible for her shouldn't it be for others too?

 

Okay, but wouldn't people have to date me (or at least, have extensive conversations with me about my "love life") in order to see my insecurities there? I mean, if it can really be situational, like you're saying, how does anyone know until they've actually seen me that way?

 

You could tell that this guy from your work didn't respect you the very day you met him. Did you get that feeling after an extensive conversation with him? Or maybe you just sensed it? I'm guessing the later. We sense things from people all the time, sometimes it's inacurate, sometimes we project from the state of our mind, but many times it is unusally right on the spot. With all the threads you have done about your frustrations in dating it seems that this is something you think about a lot and that is bound to shine through in one way or the other unless you are a very good actor. Where it will shine through the most is probably where you think about it the most. So if being around women you like trigger your frustration about not being good enough, well then you will probably not come off as very confident. Then there are the women you are considering settling for and as settling is in your mind it wouldn't surprise me if that shows on you, that you are desperate enough take anyone.

 

Why does the confidence I have now not draw people in?

 

You wouldn't date a girl who wasn't nice to you, would you? So niceness is an attractive quality, even essential. But are you drawn to every nice girl? Probably not. So why don't all nice girls draw you in?

 

There is no recipe to attraction, just guidelines. Niceness would probably make it more likely for you to be attracted to the girl as you notice her when you notice the kindness, and a girl not being nice to you would probably be a turnoff. But niceness doesn't create attraction just for being there, it only makes it more likely to happen. It's the same with confidence.

 

even when I'm at my best and my most charming, my most confident, my most fun and playful, and all of that, I'm still not seen as "attractive". So I just don't get what else it takes.

 

If we are talking about attracting women in real life you have just asked out one girl so you don't know how other women would respond to you. And yes, there will be many times your most charming, confident, fun and playful you won't be seen as attractive, actually most times. This is how it is for most people, you will never be seen as attractive to date by everyone, most of us are only that to a small part of the population as there are so many variables that have to click.

 

I try to use online dating as a means of meeting other people and just trying to get myself out there, seeing other girls, so I can get over the one I really liked, only for me to write to over 100 girls, and not get a single date out of it.

 

I've never done online dating so I can't give really you much advice. I know friends who have tried it though and they say they usually delete messages that look like it could have been sent to anyone. Did you send a different message to each one or did you send the same to everyone? Were the meassages short or long?

 

going back to the idea of "settling", it's crossed my mind plenty of times that perhaps I'll just never be able to be with the kind of girl I WANT to be with, and perhaps I'll have to be with a different kind of girl in order to have that in my life. So I was looking for perspective on what kind of men women are attracted to.

 

Well as you are ready to settle for someone who is not your type would it be so terrible if you are not her type either? What I mean, birds of feather flock together, to settle find someone who, like you, would date anyone and then her type won't matter anyway as she's settling too.

[Wonderstruck]

To be honest, now that I know a little more about the situation, I think what happened is that one or two coworkers gossiped to her about how I was feeling, and she was a little uncomfortable and would've handled things with me personally, but then she told her boyfriend about it, and he pushed her to go to management. The few times I crossed paths with this guy when he was dating her, I could tell he knew, and he always sort of gave me this "death glare" every time he was around. It was extremely uncomfortable, really. I don't think he ever liked me very much before he dated her, and I think that when he found out I was into the girl he was dating and "acting weird", he got super territorial and pushed her to go to management. That's just my guess, though.

 

Can you really blame her boyfriend for giving you a "death glare" every time he saw you, when he KNEW that you were deeply interested in his girlfriend? What did you expect? And especially since you being so into her and being so public about it with your multiple facebook statuses was enough to make HER uncomfortable, and enough to make HER choose to talk to her boyfriend about it - obviously he knew that it wasn't just a harmless little crush.

 

I don't think his actions were a sign of him being "super territorial" or "possessive" or anything - I think his reaction was pretty standard for anyone in that situation. You better believe that I would strongly dislike any girl who was openly interested in my boyfriend, KNOWING that he was in a relationship with me, who would openly pine after him and write multiple mopey lovesick facebook statuses about it. ESPECIALLY if her behaviour made my boyfriend so uncomfortable that he confided in me about it.

 

Sorry, but it doesn't sound like she was all that impressed with your behaviour (she may have even been creeped out by it), and her boyfriend did nothing wrong. There's no reason for him to like you, or to pretend to like you after how disrespectful you were being by openly pining after someone who you knew was in relationship. You can justify it to yourself by pretending that he's a "super territorial" jerk, but really, I don't think his behaviour was out of line.

[MattW]

Okay, let's back up for a second. I'm not saying anything you said is totally wrong, but I just feel the need to clarify some of the aspects of the story, because while I'm not proud of the way I acted, I don't feel like I was 100% the "bad guy" in all of this.

 

First and foremost, I actually worked this guy for a while before I even knew this girl, and honestly? I never liked him much to begin with. He was both very smug, but also very immature. I always disliked him because, despite those facts, EVERYONE seemed to adore him and bend over backwards for him at work. I would bust my ass at work and often go overlooked, and he would do very little and get praised. I would try to be friendly with all my coworkers, and they were pretty indifferent to me, but again, everyone loved this other guy. I repeatedly asked management to let me do other things at work, and I was always told "We don't have the budget to put you somewhere else", or some other excuses, but this guy decides he wants to work in a different department, and just like that, it's done for him. I've always harbored a lot of resentment for him over the years, and I was happy when he left our current job, but it drove me nuts that, even after he left, he still managed to get one more "win" over me by dating the girl I was totally crazy about. Was he a bad guy? Not necessarily. But I always disliked him before this girl had anything to do with anything, and it killed me inside to see him constantly "one up" me every single time.

 

As for my behavior towards this girl... To be honest, the Facebook stuff got blown way out of proportion. The stuff I was posting was so incredibly vague that they literally could have applied to anything. Granted, in the beginning, a lot of it was me expressing my sadness at her rejection, but as time went on, they became less about her specifically and more about my inability to find love. But the only reason people made a big deal about this stuff is because a handful of coworkers figured out I had feelings for her, so every time I posted something, they jumped to conclusions based on that, and made a big deal about it to her. Again, it was totally blown out of proportion. Now I admit, I did act a bit weird after she rejected me, but at worst, I was just overly clingy; I wanted to spend time with her, talk to her, joke, etc. In my mind, part of me wanted to show her that I was okay with her saying no and that we could still be friendly, but I guess I went a bit overboard. So tell me, does what I did really make me a horrible, despicable, disrespectful person?

 

When she sat me down and had that conversation with me, I had no idea she was even seeing someone, let alone this guy I hated (so it's not like I was after someone I knew was "taken"). In this conversation, I made it very clear to her that I was NOT "pursuing" her anymore. I understand her having felt uncomfortable about my behavior, but think about this... Why did she come to me and have a conversation about it? Why did she give me a heads up that management knew? If she had totally written me off as a creepy jerk, I feel like she would've just kept her distance, not told me anything, and let whatever happen. I feel like she wanted to believe I wasn't a bad person, or anything, and that she respected me enough to give me the chance to say my piece and clear things up. The way she said it, it sounded as though she wouldn't have even gone to management had someone else not pressured her into it. I feel that should speak relatively positively about the way she view(ed)s me...

 

After this conversation, I did my best to keep a distance from her. At this point, I really honestly wasn't "pining" for her. Internally, I still felt very sad that we couldn't be together, and I still wanted that, but I was doing my best to just leave it alone. When I found out she was dating that other guy later on, internally, it just crushed me. It was a knife through my heart. Like I said, I always resented that guy, so to find out they were dating was a very tough pill to swallow, but I internalized my sadness and my anger, and dealt with it away from her or anyone else. I'm not saying he should have "liked" me, or anything like that (I certainly wouldn't have "liked" him, so...), but at that point, I had already made it clear to her that I wasn't after her, and I hadn't been "pining" for her for a while now. I just felt uncomfortable the way he'd constantly pop into work and be so awkward and cold to me.

[Rosti87]

It is risky to use social media to express personal feelings. I know that this is a common activity but it always comes back and bite you in the backside. Plus it will always be out there. People will interpret your commentary differently depending on their views and it is difficult to defend it. Hopefully there is a lesson learned in that action.

 

Whether she was advised by others to complain to management or not, she somehow felt uncomfortable. The fact that she spoke to you directly showed that she did have respect for you. Even if you don't like her guy, you need to respect her boundaries by tolerating her boyfriend as long as he does not directly harass you. It does not sound like he did much to you at all.

 

He has a right to take advantage of opportunity in a company if it is available. We all know that corporate America is seldom 'fair.' It's important to find a way to let go of your anger and resentment and move forward.

[NorthDallas40]

Okay, let's back up for a second. I'm not saying anything you said is totally wrong, but I just feel the need to clarify some of the aspects of the story, because while I'm not proud of the way I acted, I don't feel like I was 100% the "bad guy" in all of this.

 

Y'know man, I've been following this thread... and just once it would be awesome to see you respond with something like:

 

"Wow, that's a different perspective. Thanks for showing me a different side!"

 

or

 

"Great advice - I'm going to try what you suggested!"

 

...instead of writing a five-paragraph rationalization of why your negative mindset/actions are justified.

 

Almost everyone here has gone through similar situations as you, but the successful ones tried a different approach instead of doing the same things over and over.

 

Think about it.

[Wonderstruck]

How is this explanation supposed to cast you in a more positive light? All it tells me is that you were already bitterly jealous over how superior you felt this guy was to you in every way, and how adored and respected you perceived him to be compared to you. So, basically, you already resented him and disliked him before he even got involved with the girl you were infatuated with, which means that you were already biased against him.

 

From what you've described, he didn't even DO anything to you - he just committed the high crime of being well-loved and well-respected at work, and consequently invoking your jealousy/resentment. What's he supposed to do? Apologize to you for being well-liked? Apologize to you for being able to attract the girl that wasn't attracted to you? It's not like he was single-handedly standing between you and this girl getting together - even if he hadn't started working at your work, this girl still wouldn't have started dating you. She told you that she wasn't interested.

 

 

 

I can't help but feel like you're completely downplaying the reality of this situation. Your co-workers didn't "jump to conclusions" and "make a big deal about it". They KNEW that your statuses were all about the same situation, the same girl, and honestly, it sounds like you had plenty of statuses over a number of months about this particular situation with this girl. You can claim that the statuses were vague, but obviously they weren't THAT vague since your co-workers were instantly able to figure out who they were about.

 

I know a few of us have mentioned this to you before, but I feel like it bears repeating - it is NEVER wise to air dirty laundry on facebook, especially when you have mutual coworkers, friends or family on your friends list who could easily determine who or what your statuses are about. I just hope that you learned a valuable lesson from this and won't repeat this behaviour in the future.

 

As for "acting a bit weird" after she rejected you, I, again, feel like you're downplaying your own behaviour. When you say stuff like "at worst I was overly clingy" and "I guess I went a bit overboard", I can't help but wonder what the extent of it really was. People have a vested interest in downplaying their own negative behaviour when relaying a story to somebody else, and when even YOU are acknowledging that you were overly clingy and went overboard, and she became uncomfortable, it does make me wonder how bad it really was.

 

Either way, the point is that instead of downplaying your behaviour and trying to justify it to yourself and everyone else, you should concentrate on LEARNING FROM IT and not repeating the same mistakes in the future. We all make mistakes, we've all engaged in embarrassing behaviour that we're not proud of, and you're only 24 years old - you're not a terrible person for acting in a way that you regret or are embarrassed by. But what concerns me is that you NEVER take any responsibility for your behaviour after the fact - you don't seem to learn any lessons from it about what NOT to do in the future, or how NOT to behave. You seem like you're more concerned with justifying it to yourself and everyone else, which makes me think that you will just repeat this behaviour in the future, because you don't really seem to see anything wrong with it.

 

 

 

Okay, but again, what did you expect? If you don't expect him to like you, and you admit that you don't like him, why WOULDN'T he act awkward and cold towards you? It doesn't matter that you were no longer actively pursuing his girlfriend - the only reason that you weren't was because she rejected you, and you found out that she had a boyfriend. So, he's not going to suddenly warm up to you, and I think if the worst that happened was that he acted awkward and cold towards you, that's really not that big of a deal, and should have been expected.

 

And I find it baffling that you're acting like HE was being rude by acting awkward and cold towards you, when you've admitted here that you practically despise the guy. Maybe he knew all along that you strongly disliked him, even before he found out that you were also interested in his girlfriend? It's not hard to sense when somebody doesn't like you, and I'm sure you made it abundantly clear through your actions over a period of time that you weren't his biggest fan. So, why should he act warm and friendly towards you, and why would you feel surprised and uncomfortable when he doesn't?

[MattW]

Look, Glitz, I feel like you're focusing on things I said that I didn't really mean anything by. I never said that I was upset or offended that the guy was being cold to me, the only reason I brought that up is because I could tell he knew about it one way or another. That's the only reason I mentioned that at all. I was just going over things, and I simply cited that fact as a reason I could tell that he knew, and to further my theory that it was him who pushed her to go to management about me. Like I said, judging by the fact that she came to talk to me, and everything she said, I feel like she probably wouldn't have went to management otherwise and would've just tried to handle things with me directly. Again, I feel like that was a sign that she had some faith in me, as a person.

 

But anyway, let's bottom line the way I feel in general, because again, I think some people here have started running a little too far with things that don't REALLY need to be addressed to begin with.

 

In a way, I feel like the relationship I had with this guy and this girl is a good illustration of the hell I'm stuck in; as in, there's always going to be some guy right around the corner that constantly "one ups" me, even when I'm busting my ass, putting in the effort, and being the best person I can possibly be. It doesn't matter how good I am, it doesn't matter how likable I am, it doesn't matter what good qualities I have, THAT guy is always going to be get all the attention, that guy is going to have friends, that guy is going to attract every great girl that I happen to fancy. And I'm being a bit metaphorical, here; "that guy" might not be someone I know personally, heck, there may even be more than one "that guy" at any given time. But they're always going to exist, and the fact that I can't seem to figure out how to compete with them is what frustrates me, depresses me, and makes me angry.

 

It also frustrates me that I can't seem to become personally attracted to very many girls. It's like, once every 4-5 years, I meet a girl I want to date, and she shoots me down. That's a difficult issue to face. And okay, you can say I need to get out more and meet more people, and that's fair, but I've met a ton of girls over the last eight or so years. The fact that I've only been personally attracted to is still a pretty scary statistic, and a good indicator that even if I were out meeting more people, I probably still wouldn't meet very many girls I want to date at all. This last girl was the best possible match for me, and to know that I simply wasn't "good enough" (however you want to spin it, that's what it is, let's call a spade a spade, I wasn't "good enough") for her is just heartbreaking. I find the one girl that I have an amazing connection with, and I just can't be with her. Again, I'm not angry at her, I'm just angry that the universe has put me in this situation. To be honest, I wish I never even met this girl, because while it started out as one of the best feelings I've ever felt, it quickly became one of the worst.

 

I'm upset because this leaves me with no "direction", and I hate this feeling, this feeling of just "floating along aimlessly", and "keeping myself busy" while "hoping for the best". When I thought I had a chance with this girl, I had a clear vision, I felt like I was working towards something and making progress, but now that I know it's not happening, all I can do is "work on myself" for the next 4-5 years until the next girl wanders into my life, and then she'll probably reject me, too, and I'll have to repeat this all over again.

 

I'm also upset because "dating" and "socializing" are such relatively standard parts of human life, and I don't know a single person in real life that struggles with either thing as much as I do. Everyone around me has friends, everyone around me has been dating for years now. And I just don't get it. I don't get why I can't grasp these concepts the way a normal person can. I don't get why I can't be "normal". I don't understand why I can't look at what you guys tell me and say "That's a good point, I'll do that".

 

Having friends, and falling in love and dating, those are two things I want more than anything in life, but deep down in my heart, I know that I'll never be able to have either one of those things. The fact that I know what I want, but also know that I'll never have it is extremely... distressing. I mean, what's the point of living if I know for a fact, with 100% certainty, that I will never have what I want out of life?

 

I know you guys are sick of me, and I know you guys are sick of the way I act. I know it, and I swear to god, I apologize for all of this. I do. But if you think my posts are bad, you should see what it's like living inside my head 24/7. It's a mess in there. I seriously lose sleep over these issues. I wake up every morning not wanting to even get out of bed. My head, my mind, is broken beyond repair. It's torture. I can keep my mind at bay when I'm around others, but the second I'm by myself, the second I can relax, I'm just crushed and buried beneath all the issues that are running circles through my head. That, combined with knowing the life I'm doomed to, makes it extremely difficult to even keep pushing forward day to day. I mean, what's the point? Why bother? I'm completely ****ed in the head, and I can't have the life I want to have. It just doesn't seem like a life worth living.

[Blue Spiral]

I'm also upset because "dating" and "socializing" are such relatively standard parts of human life, and I don't know a single person in real life that struggles with either thing as much as I do. Everyone around me has friends, everyone around me has been dating for years now. And I just don't get it.

 

I never did, either--and I eventually decided that it wasn't worth the stress.

 

This thread could go to a thousand pages, and the majority of the people here would never stop blaming you. If they have to choose between "something's wrong with you" and "something's wrong with how this dating stuff works", they're going to blame you every single time, because the alternative is unthinkable to them.

 

They can't help you, only you can help yourself. Their opinion doesn't matter; debate isn't going to solve anything. Find a way to make yourself happy and do it (and you can't expect other people to make you happy). If you're able to function in this area of life, it won't come unless you're happy, first.

[blueidealist24]

I never did, either--and I eventually decided that it wasn't worth the stress.

 

This thread could go to a thousand pages, and the majority of the people here would never stop blaming you. If they have to choose between "something's wrong with you" and "something's wrong with how this dating stuff works", they're going to blame you every single time, because the alternative is unthinkable to them.

 

They can't help you, only you can help yourself. Their opinion doesn't matter; debate isn't going to solve anything. Find a way to make yourself happy and do it (and you can't expect other people to make you happy). If you're able to function in this area of life, it won't come unless you're happy, first.

 

This is a great post.

[BrianH46]

I never did, either--and I eventually decided that it wasn't worth the stress.

 

This thread could go to a thousand pages, and the majority of the people here would never stop blaming you. If they have to choose between "something's wrong with you" and "something's wrong with how this dating stuff works", they're going to blame you every single time, because the alternative is unthinkable to them.

 

They can't help you, only you can help yourself. Their opinion doesn't matter; debate isn't going to solve anything. Find a way to make yourself happy and do it (and you can't expect other people to make you happy). If you're able to function in this area of life, it won't come unless you're happy, first.

 

I would go out on a limb and say neither you nor he would be here if your respective parents wasted time thinking how unfair life is.