Can't see past the anger anymore...

[penelope13]

and typically, browser games are formatted in a way differently than regular websites, and as such, they don't tend to work well (or at all) on phone/ tablet browsers.

 

actually lumosity has an app for mobile devices. if you had looked at the site you could have discovered that ...

[blueidealist24]

Btw, I've been to moodgym when I was struggling with depression. I don't have a tablet but from the way the site is set up, I'm pretty sure at least most of the things will work on a tablet.

[Wayfara]

I know you guys clearly don't believe it when I say I'm not as cynical and sour and depressive offline around people as I am on here, but I'm really not. I just don't know WHY I'm not "attractive". I mean, again, I know I'm not physically attractive, and that's a complete lost cause, but I don't understand why my personality just isn't enough to make me an attractive person.

 

You think people should acknowledge and appreciate your good qualities yet you can't imagine that anyone could get a whiff of your less attractive ones. Your personality isn't just the part you want to display, it includes both the good and the bad, it's the whole package. I get that you aren't openly angry as you, as most people, don't want project a bad image of yourself. This is however what most people try to do, keeping their flaws hidden from the public eye, and if this really worked we would all seem pretty flawless. People might not see the extent but I very much doubt they wouldn't sense anything at all.

 

Anyway, in my opinion, anger in this context grows from seeing romantic love as something you should/ought to get and then when you don't get it you feel wronged. I think romantic love should be approached without expectations because recieving romantic love isn't an human right, it's a gift and gifts can't be forced or they wouldn't be gifts. You say you want to project yourself as chill and laid back so work on getting a chill and laid back attitude to love and dating. Finding someone to be with is great, but if you don't there is more to life than just relationships.

 

About positive affirmations, they don't work as well with very depressed people because when you are very down the positive affirmations feel false so you don't believe in them anyway. You have to believe to get it to work.

[Wayfara]

Do you really think that individual willpower/ability alone is always going to be enough to overcome one's environment? Do you really think it's healthy to have a growing "underclass" of men who are basically dropping out of relationships/society en masse?

 

There will always be people who want but for some reasons will never have romantic relationships. It's sad but I don't think it's wrong. Relationships happen because both parties want it and when it doesn't happen it's because one of them or both didn't want it to. Everyone has a veto right regarding who they want to get romantically involved with and the consequence of that is that people can get rejected. The only way to prevent it would be to revoke the veto and replace it with a right to romantic relationships, which would reintroduce slavery forcing people to be in relationships they don't want to be in.

[MattW]

actually lumosity has an app for mobile devices. if you had looked at the site you could have discovered that ...

 

Looks like it's only for iPhone and iPad right now. I'm all Android.

 

Btw, I've been to moodgym when I was struggling with depression. I don't have a tablet but from the way the site is set up, I'm pretty sure at least most of the things will work on a tablet.

 

I'll look into that.

 

@wayfara

 

It's less about a "right" to love, and more about what the sense of rejection does to my self worth. It's just... hard to handle the fact that I'm not "desirable" to other people, despite what I have to offer. Yeah, I get that there's more to life than love, but I just hate to think that I'll never be wanted or desired by someone else. I'm not angry because I feel entitled to a relationship, I'm angry that despite being an all-around good person, I'm not attractive enough, for one reason or another, to warrant another person wanting to be with me. That's just... sad.

[Wayfara]

I'm not angry because I feel entitled to a relationship, I'm angry that despite being an all-around good person, I'm not attractive enough, for one reason or another, to warrant another person wanting to be with me.

 

Isn't that pretty much the same thing? You feel that someone should want you as not having someone wanting you makes you angry so while you might not feel entitled to the relationship you feel entitled to having someone wanting you. If not, why anger? Anger usually comes with someone having done something you feel is wrong so if you don't feel wronged in any way what is there to be angry about? I can understand being sad but that is a different thing.

[blueidealist24]

It's kind of hard not to feel wronged by not getting something that most other people seem to obtain early in their lives.. just saying. It's like if you were incapable of passing high school, and knew that nearly everyone else has a high school diploma, you would feel kind of angry, wouldn't you?

[Wayfara]

It's kind of hard not to feel wronged by not getting something that most other people seem to obtain early in their lives.. just saying. It's like if you were incapable of passing high school, and knew that nearly everyone else has a high school diploma, you would feel kind of angry, wouldn't you?

 

Being incapable of passing high school would make me sad, to be angry there would have to someone I blame, like if I got perfect score on all examinations in every class and the teachers refused to pass me anyway (which would be against the law). We can all have momentary feelings of illogical anger though, like getting angry at the other cars for standing in the way in a tailback but we know it's silly because we are doing exact the same (standing in the way of other cars in the tailback) so the anger passes.

 

I used to have a problem with anger when I was younger (was a very angry kid) and the way I resolved it was by asking myself each time if someone really had violated any of my rights, if no (and usually it was a no), then I saw I had no real reason to be angry and I could let it go. We all have different strategies, what works for one might not work for another but I think it's important to find the root to the anger because knowing the cause makes it easier to fight it.

[allcity]

It's kind of hard not to feel wronged by not getting something that most other people seem to obtain early in their lives.

 

Just saying. It's like if you were incapable of passing high school, and knew that nearly everyone else has a high school diploma, you would feel kind of angry, wouldn't you?

 

Only if you truly knew every other person's entire backstory and knew for a fact that they didn't actually just work their butt off to get the things that you assume just fell in their lap.

 

I've found that pretty much every person I know (including myself) that is seen as 'successful' and is envied by others, actually showed immense strength and determination to get there.

 

They just don't whine about it and expect people to feel sorry for them, so they only appear to have had an easy ride when the reality is the complete opposite and they just got on with life instead of complaining.

 

It's a cliché but I've found that the people that have had the toughest lives are often the kindest and most outwardly positive people I know, while the ones that complain the most have often actually had very little to complain about.

[MattW]

@ Wayfara

 

Two things, though. First, I WAS sad, internally, for a long time about my issues. Over time, that sadness stewed around and turned into anger. So yes, being sad does make more sense, but that's what it was for a long time, sadness. Over the last 6-8 months, it's turned from that into anger.

 

Secondly, like I said before, the one my anger is really directed at is me. Deep down, I'm simply angry at myself. I'm angry that I'm a good person, but also such a lousy piece of **** that I'm completely unappealing to anyone. That's what it really comes down to. I'm not really angry at people or the world, I'm angry at myself. And in some weird sort of way, I think maybe I punish myself. Like, I'm so mad at myself, I just can't forgive myself for being so unattractive, that I mentally punish myself, because I feel that's all I deserve.

 

Again, I completely understand that no one is entitled to love. But it's all about the fact that I can't be "wanted" by someone else. Everyone wants to be "wanted", whether they admit it or not. Most people get to experience that. To never get to know that feeling just... hurts. A lot. It makes you question what is so horribly wrong with yourself that you're not appealing or attractive in the slightest to anyone.

[Wayfara]

my anger is really directed at is me. Deep down, I'm simply angry at myself. I'm angry that I'm a good person, but also such a lousy piece of **** that I'm completely unappealing to anyone. That's what it really comes down to. I'm not really angry at people or the world, I'm angry at myself. And in some weird sort of way, I think maybe I punish myself. Like, I'm so mad at myself, I just can't forgive myself for being so unattractive, that I mentally punish myself, because I feel that's all I deserve.

 

Thanks for the explanation, so you blame yourself for not having someone attracted to you? You are still kind of including woulds and musts where there is only mights thinking that if you been an attractive enough someone would have been attracted to you and as no one has been it must mean there is something repulsive about you which you blame yourself for. Having an attractive personality doesn't automatically lead to someone being attracted to you, there are many amazing people I have no interest in dating and it doesn't make them any less worthy. Love isn't a competition, I don't pick partner after who is best, I pick the one I fall for. So they picking another guy instead of you means just means they fell for that guy, not that he's better than you and not that you are not good enough.

[blueidealist24]

This is all true, but most people honestly don't have to work extremely hard to get a date or have a short-term relationship. Yeah, they have to work very hard to have a good, long-lasting relationship with a suitable person, but most people somewhat easily get a first date in high school or get into a relationship, even if it is a pathetic excuse for one and something they regret later. Just like most people don't have to bust their butt to graduate high school (to graduate with good grades and get into a good university, now, that's different.. and I know the occasional person with learning disabilities or other personal problems may have to bust their butt to just graduate, but I'm talking about the average person).

[Batya33]

This is all true, but most people honestly don't have to work extremely hard to get a date or have a short-term relationship. Yeah, they have to work very hard to have a good, long-lasting relationship with a suitable person, but most people somewhat easily get a first date in high school or get into a relationship, even if it is a pathetic excuse for one and something they regret later. Just like most people don't have to bust their butt to graduate high school (to graduate with good grades and get into a good university, now, that's different.. and I know the occasional person with learning disabilities or other personal problems may have to bust their butt to just graduate, but I'm talking about the average person).

 

I don't think the OP envies people who were able to go on a date or be in a relationship that were pathetic excuses -he's written many times he refuses to settle.

[MattW]

Thanks for the explanation, so you blame yourself for not having someone attracted to you? You are still kind of including woulds and musts where there is only mights thinking that if you been an attractive enough someone would have been attracted to you and as no one has been it must mean there is something repulsive about you which you blame yourself for. Having an attractive personality doesn't automatically lead to someone being attracted to you, there are many amazing people I have no interest in dating and it doesn't make them any less worthy. Love isn't a competition, I don't pick partner after who is best, I pick the one I fall for. So they picking another guy instead of you means just means they fell for that guy, not that he's better than you and not that you are not good enough.

 

Well, yeah, but in my case, I dunno. I mean, most people don't turn 25 without ever having been on even one date. Most people aren't 25 and completely friendless. That doesn't really seem like "woulds" and "mights" to me. Seems pretty conclusive, from my point of view. I mean, I know what my flaws are, but I don't think any of them are huge dealbreakers, and I think there's enough "good" about me to be "desirable" to other people. Yet, that clearly never happens. Clearly, despite what I have to offer, because of some unknown "problem", I'm just not at all desirable to people, as a friend, a lover, or anything.

 

To be honest, I sort of disagree with the idea that it's "not a competition", and about not being "good enough". Most women will have multiple men attracted to them, vying for them to return those feelings. It's up to each of those men to make himself stand out to that girl more than the rest, on whatever merit he can. The one that does so the best is the one that gets the girl. The rest are simply "not good enough". People can sugarcoat that phrasing, but that's what it really is; if a girl turns you down, you just aren't "good enough" in her eyes, for one reason or another.

[Wayfara]

most people don't turn 25 without ever having been on even one date. Most people aren't 25 and completely friendless. That doesn't really seem like "woulds" and "mights" to me. Seems pretty conclusive, from my point of view. I mean, I know what my flaws are, but I don't think any of them are huge dealbreakers, and I think there's enough "good" about me to be "desirable" to other people. Yet, that clearly never happens. Clearly, despite what I have to offer, because of some unknown "problem", I'm just not at all desirable to people, as a friend, a lover, or anything.

 

I wouldn't say conclusive, one can have bad luck, one guy was struck by lightning seven times and however unlikely it was to happen it still happened. And you have only asked out one girl in your 25 years of living so you being still single at 25 doesn't seem as surprising considering the facts. Yes, I know you messaged 100 girls online but as you haven't said anything about your dating profile and how these messages were like it's hard to judge if the results is within the normal or not. About your flaws maybe being deal-breakers to other people that is also a possibility, what might not feel like a huge dealbreaker to you might be to others. However we shouldn't change ourselves just accommodate others, like becomming a sport fan to attract girls into sport. But if it's a thing you already want to change it might not hurt thinking about it.

 

To be honest, I sort of disagree with the idea that it's "not a competition", and about not being "good enough". Most women will have multiple men attracted to them, vying for them to return those feelings. It's up to each of those men to make himself stand out to that girl more than the rest, on whatever merit he can. The one that does so the best is the one that gets the girl. The rest are simply "not good enough".

 

Well that makes me think of a dating sim. A woman can have several men trying to get her attention but that doesn't say she is attracted to any of them, she might be more interested in the one in the corner, then the other men are just distraction in her quest of trying to attract the man she really wants. And, in my opinion, a woman who would hold a competition about herself is a woman who doesn't really care about any of the competitors. I mean if a woman is really into the guy with the muscles she wouldn't get distracted just because a man with bigger biceps enters the scene.

 

People can sugarcoat that phrasing, but that's what it really is; if a girl turns you down, you just aren't "good enough" in her eyes, for one reason or another.

 

I guess it's about how you define "not good enough", to poly people someone monogamous isn't good enough, to gay men women aren't aren't good enough, to non-cheaters in relationships anyone who isn't their partner isn't good enough. Yet not being "good enough" doesn't say one iota about how good someone is.

[MattW]

I've actually directly asked out two girls in person, the only two girls I've ever REALLY been attracted to. The first one was, like, five years ago. As for my profile and the things I write to girls online, I tend to just be as honest and straight up as I can, for myself. I realize the things I'm into are fairly nerdy, but I see no reason to hide who I am. If I had to condense my profile down to one or two sentences, in a nutshell, it would probably be "I'm a warm, bighearted individual, with a sarcastic, playful sense of humor, and I'm very laid back; I like making audio visual projects, and I'm a gamer and a comic book fan", or something like that. Obviously, I'm much more wordy on my actual profile, but this is me condensing it down. And with sending messages, I usually try to make a personal connection with something in her profile, and say that I'd like to get to know her better.

 

 

 

It's not necessarily about the girl "holding a competition" for herself, more like she's unaware of the competition that's going on. Generally speaking, I think people will date whoever wants to date them, but women get the pick of the litter, because most of the time, there are several men that are attracted to her and trying to win her over. She may be more interested in "the one in the corner", but if he's not pursuing her, she'll most likely just date one of the guys that ARE actively pursuing her. But again, she's the one that gets to pick that "winner", and the rest of the "losers" are turned away.

 

 

 

Sure, but you're using extreme examples. In your examples, the reason for not being "good enough" isn't personal at all. But when you have two straight people of the opposite sex, same age range, two people that hit it off really well, two people that have a lot in common, and the girl just doesn't want to date the guy, her reasoning is likely much more personal. So, to be THAT guy that's "not good enough", that's what's really heartbreaking.

 

Anyway, in other news, I just got back from meeting the woman I've been talking to about being FWB for the first time. She seemed okay, although I'm still sort of on the fence about her. There were some things that made me kind of think "Hm...", and she told me a handful of stories about some of her relatives and their spouses having drug problems, being in jail, etc. In my mind, those kind of freaked me out. I mean, I can't help but be wary of people with a sketchy background like that.

 

Although, I guess it will remain to be seen if she's still interested in me. I feel like we had a pretty solid conversation flow going during lunch, but then it started to lull a little bit. Then we just kinda walked around and talked for an hour or so, and I was having a hard time making conversation, particularly because she and I have already chatted so much that we've covered a lot of topics over the last couple of months. So, the first half of the "date" seemed fine, but she definitely had to carry the conversation in the second half, and I felt kinda bad about that.

 

So, I dunno, maybe I was "boring" and she'll move on. If she doesn't, though, well... I'm not 100% sure I want to actually sleep with her. Part of me still wants to, because this is the closest I've ever gotten, but part of me just wasn't quite feeling it after meeting her.

[blueidealist24]

Those topics the woman brought up do sound a bit sketchy. If you're not feeling it, I wouldn't do it. If this woman is willing to sleep with you, another (likely better) one probably will.

[NorthDallas40]

Sure, but you're using extreme examples.

 

When you have two straight people of the opposite sex, same age range, two people that hit it off really well, two people that have a lot in common, and the girl just doesn't want to date the guy, her reasoning is likely much more personal. So, to be THAT guy that's "not good enough", that's what's really heartbreaking.

 

That example is "extreme"?

 

Dude, the example she gave is TYPICAL.

 

You're crying about it happening twice in five years... but I've gone through this exact scenario about four times just this past month!

 

It's disappointing, but there's no reason to be "heartbroken" about relationships we wanted but never had.

[NorthDallas40]

Those topics the woman brought up do sound a bit sketchy. If you're not feeling it, I wouldn't do it. If this woman is willing to sleep with you, another (likely better) one probably will.

 

Agreed on both points.

[Batya33]

"Anyway, in other news, I just got back from meeting the woman I've been talking to about being FWB for the first time. She seemed okay, although I'm still sort of on the fence about her. There were some things that made me kind of think "Hm...", and she told me a handful of stories about some of her relatives and their spouses having drug problems, being in jail, etc. In my mind, those kind of freaked me out. I mean, I can't help but be wary of people with a sketchy background like that."

 

I would stay away from a person like that. I don't think it matters if she is interested in you as a person in any event -all that matters is whether she wants to meet up for sex, right? Still - the risks are far greater if she associates with people with criminal backgrounds- you have no idea who might show up when you meet up to have sex.

[Wayfara]

Generally speaking, I think people will date whoever wants to date them

 

Well, I don't know all people so I can't really say but it's far from the case in my friendship circles, very few dates whoever wants to date them and those who have did it out of low self esteem (needing someone, anyone, to like them) and now really regret doing so.

 

women get the pick of the litter, because most of the time, there are several men that are attracted to her and trying to win her over. She may be more interested in "the one in the corner", but if he's not pursuing her, she'll most likely just date one of the guys that ARE actively pursuing her. But again, she's the one that gets to pick that "winner", and the rest of the "losers" are turned away.

 

Well that is assuming she is a settler and very passive, not a quality woman in my eyes. If she's not a settler there is no competition though as the comeption only works if she's okay with settling for "the winner" (the one she likes othe most or maybe dislkes the least) regardless of how she feels about them in general (she might find them all unattractive). In my opinion settling is a sign of desperation, why settle for someone you might not like or be attracted to if you are not desperate? Is that really the kind of women you are into, women who settle and are too afraid of talking the one she really wants? If not, why worry about it?

 

In your examples, the reason for not being "good enough" isn't personal at all. But when you have two straight people of the opposite sex, same age range, two people that hit it off really well, two people that have a lot in common, and the girl just doesn't want to date the guy, her reasoning is likely much more personal. So, to be THAT guy that's "not good enough", that's what's really heartbreaking.

 

Is it personal that she likes your company on a platonic level but not also romantically? That is how most people are with their friends, they have things in common and hit off (the reason they became friends) but don't feel the need of adding romance in into the mix so they are friends (no attraction). I assume same sex friendships are okay to you, it's not personal if they are of same gender you say, but someone of the opposite gender liking your company as a friend, is that truly personal? When someone likes your company they are already approving of you, I like and approve of my friends and I'm not withholding attraction out of not feeling they are not good enough for me, attraction just didn't happen for reasons unknown. You have only been really attracted to two girls so did you hold yourself back with all other women feeling they weren't good enough to you or attraction simply didn't happen with them?

[MattW]

Those topics the woman brought up do sound a bit sketchy. If you're not feeling it, I wouldn't do it. If this woman is willing to sleep with you, another (likely better) one probably will.

 

I would stay away from a person like that. I don't think it matters if she is interested in you as a person in any event -all that matters is whether she wants to meet up for sex, right? Still - the risks are far greater if she associates with people with criminal backgrounds- you have no idea who might show up when you meet up to have sex.

 

Yeah, I guess... I dunno. I probably won't actually sleep with her, but man, it sucks to let an opportunity pass by. I'm not sure I can be comfortable with someone that has a sketchy background like that. Just kinda freaks me out, even if we were only going to have sex.

 

If this woman is willing to sleep with you, another (likely better) one probably will.

 

I highly doubt that.

 

Well, I don't know all people so I can't really say but it's far from the case in my friendship circles, very few dates whoever wants to date them and those who have did it out of low self esteem (needing someone, anyone, to like them) and now really regret doing so.

 

Well, no, what I'm saying is, people are generally aware of their options, as far as dating goes, and they pick who they want to date from that pool of options. It's not about being desperate, it's just about having an urge for a partner, and assessing one's options for that, and then picking one's favorite from among those candidates.

 

In my opinion settling is a sign of desperation, why settle for someone you might not like or be attracted to if you are not desperate? Is that really the kind of women you are into, women who settle and are too afraid of talking the one she really wants? If not, why worry about it?

 

Sure, but for those of us that don't have the luxury of getting to be with someone we really want to be with, "settling" is the only option, as depressing and disappointing as that may be. It's not that I'd say girls are "afraid" to pursue the one she really wants, but just that A) women generally expect the men to do the pursuing, and B) women know they have options and can hold out for as long as they want until they decide they want to be with someone.

 

Is it personal that she likes your company on a platonic level but not also romantically? That is how most people are with their friends, they have things in common and hit off (the reason they became friends) but don't feel the need of adding romance in into the mix so they are friends (no attraction). I assume same sex friendships are okay to you, it's not personal if they are of same gender you say, but someone of the opposite gender liking your company as a friend, is that truly personal? When someone likes your company they are already approving of you, I like and approve of my friends and I'm not withholding attraction out of not feeling they are not good enough for me, attraction just didn't happen for reasons unknown. You have only been really attracted to two girls so did you hold yourself back with all other women feeling they weren't good enough to you or attraction simply didn't happen with them?

 

Well, no, but you don't need much in the way of commonalities or a connection to have a platonic relationship with someone. When you really hit it off with someone in a big way, it's... different. It hurts more when that attraction isn't mutual. No, I never saw women as being "not good enough for me", but it works differently for guys. Er, well, those of us guys that are more "average", anyway. Women aren't "competing" for us the way we're competing for them. For us guys that have no options, any girl should be "good enough".

[Batya33]

"Yeah, I guess... I dunno. I probably won't actually sleep with her, but man, it sucks to let an opportunity pass by. I'm not sure I can be comfortable with someone that has a sketchy background like that. Just kinda freaks me out, even if we were only going to have sex."

 

It's not an opportunity -it's a stranger who was kind enough to be honest about the red flags (or perhaps she realizes having sex with a stranger might not be the best idea so she told you this to dissuade you from pursuing sex with her). My sense is that while you claim you want to just have sex and that that will satisfy you you aren't really going to go through with it so this might be a blessing in disguise so you can re-think what you really want.

[blueidealist24]

I don't think the woman realizes having sex with a stranger isn't the best idea.. this is not the type of woman who would reject that.. she was all-in. Sometimes people like that don't know when to keep their mouths shut about negative stuff about them (ie. the family with criminal activity). What I mean by "people like that" is someone who is open enough to have sex with a complete stranger from the internet, and open enough to basically blurt out uncensored stuff about their background.

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, I guess... I dunno. I probably won't actually sleep with her, but man, it sucks to let an opportunity pass by. I'm not sure I can be comfortable with someone that has a sketchy background like that. Just kinda freaks me out, even if we were only going to have sex.

 

 

See, you have standards. Some other guys probably would just sleep with her in a heartbeat. Since you have standards you will likely remain single longer, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.