Can't see past the anger anymore...

[blueidealist24]

I had to comment again because I thought of another reason why that girl you liked might be dating the kind of guy you have described. Some people are attracted to those who are similar. Others are attracted to their opposites. These guys may be the opposite of this girl, and she likes that. I read somewhere else that when people get more mature, they look for people who are like-minded, but when they're not that mature, they're attracted to someone who is the opposite of them since they seem exciting and different. I'm not stating this as fact, and I can't even remember exactly where I read it (some psychology book), but it's just something to think about.

 

I've had the problem in the past of trying to find someone to date who is like myself, has a lot in common with me, etc. but they usually aren't interested and end up criticizing me for flaws that ironically, they also have. Then guys who are my total opposite, who I couldn't see myself with, pursue me and I just can't give them a chance since it just seems so unreal for me to be going out with a person like them.

[Rosti87]

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

[blueidealist24]

This article about "limerance" is interesting. I actually found it when I was trying to solve a romantic problem of my own, but I think it at least somewhat applies to the OP's situation with the girl. Also, in another article, which I can't find now, it mentioned that with limerance, physical connection doesn't matter, which I also think is applicable to that situation.

 

link removed

[Purusha]

Matt, as per your last threat, you don't put yourself out there. End of.

 

You don't try to make new friends, you don't enhance your life, therefore you're not likely to meet that many people that you're attracted to.

 

If you seriously think that someone needs to 'prove themselves' to you before you'll put in any effort you'll get nowhere, fast.

[Wayfara]

Going back to that last girl, the chemistry was just uncanny, and the common grounds between us were plentiful.

 

You feeling chemistry doesn't really help her, she has to feel it too. Sadly chemistry isn't always mutual.

 

I understand what you're saying, but what makes me "angry" is that attraction just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

It isn't very surprising that you think it's frustrating to make sense of attraction, it's like trying to define love, you can come close but you will never truly define it.

 

I feel like I would've been a good boyfriend to her (and I know I sure as heck wouldn't have cheated on her like her last two exes did).

 

For most people it's very unpleasant to be romantic with someone you don't like in that way so even being faithful you wouldn't make a good boyfriend to her if she isn't attracted to you. She not being attracted to you makes you are a bad choice of boyfriend by default (assuming that was the reason of the rejection), and she having a past of dating cheaters doesn't change the fact, it just means she should be more selective and also reject those with poor morals (assuming this was something she knew from the beginning).

 

Her first ex is a complete idiot who's full of himself and is a well known womanizer (she, herself, had to know this fact before she even dated him, everyone knows this about the guy within minutes of meeting him...). Her more recent ex is less of a self-centered womanizing jerk, but for as long as I knew him, he was always one of those lame "college frat boy" types.

 

Attraction might be essential for healthy relationships but one shouldn't let attraction rule their life disregarding their emotional/physical safety to chase it, so if her exes are as bad as you say and she went after them knowing she is kind of stupid. While you ask what she sees in a lame college frat boy type, others might ask what you see in a stupid girl, the answer to both is probably that she and this guy also have attractive qualities. And if her exes really lack good qualities altogether or have so dreadful flaws that her sanity must be questioned that reflects on you too because pursuing someone who has such bad judgment is also bad judgment.

 

What makes me "angry" in this case is that I just can't see what she had in common with them, why the idea of being with them was better than the idea of being with me.

 

Usually when you meet someone you have a lot of common with you want to be their friend and usually friendship is enough. You enjoy their company and like talking to them and friends talk and enjoy each others company, to want more there has to be some romantic/physical craving on top of it. I like a partner that is also my friend but not everyone feel the same way about it, maybe they already have friends that satisfy all their friendship needs so having things in common with their partner isn't that important as long the romantic/physical craving is there, maybe she is like that. She probably wasn't attracted to you but was to them, so the real question is why being with a jerk you attracted to is better than being with a okay person that you aren't attracted to. Not counting extremes, both situations, dating jerks and dating people you aren't attracted to, seem equally bad to me so I can't really answer the question. My estimated guess is that attraction blinded her making her not wanting to see their flaws.

 

You asked earlier in the thread what you can rely on to attract a girl when your good qualities don't count for anything. Sometimes even the looks of hottest supermodel counts for nothing, not even the most attractive are attractive to everyone. All you can do is being the best MattW you can be, the rest depends on the girl. The same qualities one girl thinks is meh the next girl go gaga over. You didn't attract this girl, doesn't mean you won't attract another girl, different people, different preferences.

[NorthDallas40]

So much great, well-stated advice in this thread! I wish I had read this when I was 13... it would have saved me a lot of heartache in the past 30 years!

 

OP, you would do well to try and truly understand what everyone is telling you. It is the key to understanding your problem and doing everything you can to overcome it, or at least make peace with your situation.

 

Any further comment will be superfluous IMO if you can't absorb - and IMPLEMENT - what's been said thus far.

[MattW]

It sounds like this girl has her own relationship 'issues.' If you have trouble seeing the signs of someone not being solid in that area I strongly recommend at the minimum getting a life coach to help you navigate your way through these type of situations. If she is choosing romantic partners that you described, she might be doing you a favor by not getting involved with you. If anyone is attracted to personalities that are like what you described they have issues of which you may not want the burdened long term.

 

Yeah, I know. It's just... frustrating that I finally find someone I REALLY connect with well, and she's into something entirely different, for reasons that make no sense to me. Not only that, but I genuinely care about her, and personally, I hate to see her getting hurt and setting herself up for the same scenarios with guys. She deserves better than that.

 

I had to comment again because I thought of another reason why that girl you liked might be dating the kind of guy you have described. Some people are attracted to those who are similar. Others are attracted to their opposites. These guys may be the opposite of this girl, and she likes that. I read somewhere else that when people get more mature, they look for people who are like-minded, but when they're not that mature, they're attracted to someone who is the opposite of them since they seem exciting and different. I'm not stating this as fact, and I can't even remember exactly where I read it (some psychology book), but it's just something to think about.

 

I've had the problem in the past of trying to find someone to date who is like myself, has a lot in common with me, etc. but they usually aren't interested and end up criticizing me for flaws that ironically, they also have. Then guys who are my total opposite, who I couldn't see myself with, pursue me and I just can't give them a chance since it just seems so unreal for me to be going out with a person like them.

 

Yeah, I guess. I dunno. Something that makes things difficult is that I've always felt "different" than 99% of the people I tend to meet. Not necessarily "better than" or "worse than", just "different". I can't even quite figure out a proper way to explain it in words, really. But I think on some level, I want to be with someone that's "different" the same way I am. To me, most girls are more of the same, and that's fine, they'll connect with other people and whatnot. But I want to find someone that's "different" like I am, and I just don't really find that.

 

This article about "limerance" is interesting. I actually found it when I was trying to solve a romantic problem of my own, but I think it at least somewhat applies to the OP's situation with the girl. Also, in another article, which I can't find now, it mentioned that with limerance, physical connection doesn't matter, which I also think is applicable to that situation.

 

link removed

 

That's very interesting, and that seems like a very accurate depiction of how things are for me and this girl, but the problem is, the article seems to indicate that this "limerance" typically involves not divulging ones true feelings, and that moving past this "limerance" involves divulging said feelings. But I already asked this girl out a year ago. I even once told her that she was the "coolest girl I've ever met". She knows how I feel, or at least, she should by now.

 

Matt, as per your last threat, you don't put yourself out there. End of.

 

You don't try to make new friends, you don't enhance your life, therefore you're not likely to meet that many people that you're attracted to.

 

All I'm saying is, when you've spent your entire life being an anti-social homebody with no friends, and having your mother drill into your head that people are bad and the world is a scary place where no one will like you, it's extremely difficult to even know the first thing about "putting yourself out there". It's a concept that is completely lost on me. I literally don't know how to find places to go and things to do, because I have no source of information for that kind of thing. I don't really know what would interest me enough to go out looking for a place to go do that thing at. And on the rare occasion I find myself out there, somewhere new, I don't know how to actually meet people, how to connect with them, how to become friends with them, how to flirt with women, and all that; if I'm out somewhere new, surrounded by people I don't know, I just keep to myself and do whatever it is I'm there to do. Not because I'm "scared" or "nervous", but because I literally don't know how to do these things.

 

If you seriously think that someone needs to 'prove themselves' to you before you'll put in any effort you'll get nowhere, fast.

 

You very much misinterpreted what I meant when I said that. That was simply an alternative way to say that I don't let myself become a door mat to people. I give everyone fair treatment, but I'm not going to bend over backwards and go out of my way for someone (thereby, becoming a "door mat" for people to take advantage of) unless I feel they deserve the extra effort on my part. That's all I meant by that. You basically twisted that quote around to make it sound like I was saying "I'm so great and people have to prove themselves to me, and blah blah blah blah blah", and that's not at all what I said.

 

You asked earlier in the thread what you can rely on to attract a girl when your good qualities don't count for anything. Sometimes even the looks of hottest supermodel counts for nothing, not even the most attractive are attractive to everyone. All you can do is being the best MattW you can be, the rest depends on the girl. The same qualities one girl thinks is meh the next girl go gaga over. You didn't attract this girl, doesn't mean you won't attract another girl, different people, different preferences.

 

That's all well and good, but I can't attract ANY girl. At this point, I question if I'll ever even have options. I feel like, if I ever manage to find a girl that's willing to date me, I better hold on to her as long as I can, even if I'm not attracted to her, because that girl is going to be one of a kind, based solely on the fact that she'll have agreed to date me. And really, I don't want to end up with someone I'm not actually attracted to, yanno? That just doesn't seem very appealing to me, settling for someone JUST because no one else will date me.

 

OP, you would do well to try and truly understand what everyone is telling you. It is the key to understanding your problem and doing everything you can to overcome it, or at least make peace with your situation.

 

Any further comment will be superfluous IMO if you can't absorb - and IMPLEMENT - what's been said thus far.

 

See, I WANT to absorb, understand, and implement what everyone here says. I don't dispute it just for the hell of it. The thing is, most people have some general sense of how to get out there, meet people, and make friends, they're just too lazy or not willing to put in the effort to make it happen. I, on the other hand, am not unwilling to put in the effort, it just goes back to the fact that I never learned any kind of social skills at all. Ever.

 

In a way, I wonder if that's where the disconnect between me and everyone here comes from; I feel like maybe you guys all advise me like I'm a normal person that DOES have a general sense of getting out and meeting people, because that's what you guys know, that's what makes sense to you guys. And that's fine, but I'm not a "normal person". I want, so badly, to be a more social person, but I literally don't know how. I never learned it, hell, I learned to be the opposite of that, if anything, growing up. It feels like a nigh impossible task to not only unlearn all of that bad stuff, but also to learn how to be better and more social, especially when I'm already pretty much set in my ways.

[allcity]

I, on the other hand, am not unwilling to put in the effort, it just goes back to the fact that I never learned any kind of social skills at all. Ever.

 

It's all baby-steps. You've got to just start interacting with people more and more over time, then start flirting with women you like, and just take it from there. It might be scary and a rough ride at first, but then it gets easier and easier.

 

I'm going through a similar thing right now, as the past year kicked a lot of my confidence out of me and almost reset my social confidence to the point that I was really shy and nervous to speak to anyone new that I met.

 

So for the past few months I've been making more and more effort, and while I still get nervous and awkward at times, I'm to the point where other people don't notice and I can just start feeling more natural and relaxed when flirting.

 

And sure, I crashed and burned spectacularly a few times and limped off with my tail between my legs feeling like an award-winning moron, but that just made me more eager to improve my social skills as fast as possible.

 

It's like trying anything new, Matt. It just takes practice and a willingness to risk failure for a while until you get good at it. And that means everything from general social skills, to flirting with people you're really attracted to.

 

The benefits far outweigh the risks, so just take a chance and start practicing.

[Rosti87]

I STRONGLY advise you to find a life coach. They will guide you through the baby steps and get you started. People use them when they get "stuck." And believe me MOST people at some point in their lives get 'stuck" and need to find a way out. Most people seek the assistance of friends and family to help them get unstuck. Since you have shared or implied that your family and possibly friends have let you down in this regard, I think a professional is needed to get you unstuck.

 

There is hope here but you need assistance in getting started.

[jenny_mcs]

 

In a way, I wonder if that's where the disconnect between me and everyone here comes from; I feel like maybe you guys all advise me like I'm a normal person that DOES have a general sense of getting out and meeting people, because that's what you guys know, that's what makes sense to you guys. And that's fine, but I'm not a "normal person". I want, so badly, to be a more social person, but I literally don't know how. I never learned it, hell, I learned to be the opposite of that, if anything, growing up. It feels like a nigh impossible task to not only unlearn all of that bad stuff, but also to learn how to be better and more social, especially when I'm already pretty much set in my ways.

 

OK. I see what you are saying. You need a very detailed plan. Here is a plan:

 

1) Go to link removed and create an account, if you don't already have one

2) Upload a picture and add a few things you like to do to your profile

3) On the meet-up site, search for your city + movies

4) Look through the various meet-up groups for a group that isn't super had core movie lovers, but a casual group that gets together for movie and maybe a drink or dinner. For example- I don't know where you live, but I searched for " Chicago movies" and found this group: link removed It's a group that gets together to see mainstream, new release movies. It looks like they may go for a drink afterwards. So find a similar group in your city.

5) RSVP for the next THREE meet-ups for this group

6) Attend all three

 

This will do several things. One, it's going to get you out of the house and away from your mom. Two, you'll get to see a current movie, which will give you something to talk about to people at work or school. Three, by committing to go several times, you will see several of the same people. You will start to be a "regular" in the group. Maybe one or more of the people in the group will become your friend. Four- you will be able to (in small doses, because the bulk of the time will be spent watching the movie) practice making small talk and connecting in small ways to people.

 

Do you think this is something you could do?

[BrianH46]

Wow Jenny just laid out a simple yet effective plan for you step by step, I highly advise that you follow that.

[MattW]

I suppose I can give that a shot. I've browsed link removed before, and couldn't really find any groups that interested me, but I guess I can try to have another go at it.

 

In other news, this older woman I was in talks with about being FWB with, who I thought had started blowing me off, has gotten back in touch with me, and we're supposedly meeting for lunch on Wednesday. So, if nothing else, it looks like some good old fashioned "casual sex" might be in my near future. Guess that's something to look forward to, eh?

[blueidealist24]

I suppose I can give that a shot. I've browsed link removed before, and couldn't really find any groups that interested me, but I guess I can try to have another go at it.

 

In other news, this older woman I was in talks with about being FWB with, who I thought had started blowing me off, has gotten back in touch with me, and we're supposedly meeting for lunch on Wednesday. So, if nothing else, it looks like some good old fashioned "casual sex" might be in my near future. Guess that's something to look forward to, eh?

 

Good to hear she has started talking to you again. But if you don't feel comfortable doing it after meeting her, don't feel obligated..

 

I've learned recently that sometimes you can THINK you're rejected but then if you're a bit patient the person will come back. Sometimes people blow you off on purpose but other times they actually DO get busy.

[MattW]

Good to hear she has started talking to you again. But if you don't feel comfortable doing it after meeting her, don't feel obligated.

 

Yeah, no, I don't think "feeling obligated" will be much of an issue. If I'm being honest, I was the one that approached her online and got the ball rolling on the whole "FWB" thing, I just happened to luck out that she was also down for that. I think if anyone might feel "obligated", it would be her, especially since she knows I've never had sex before. Thus far, she seems to have been pretty up front to me about a lot of stuff, and it's not like I'm looking at her as a potential "girlfriend", so I figure it might do me some good to just have some "fun". Might as well, right? I'm still nervous, of course, but to be honest, the idea of sex, in general, makes me nervous, so that feeling is always going to exist regardless of who I'm with.

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, no, I don't think "feeling obligated" will be much of an issue. If I'm being honest, I was the one that approached her online and got the ball rolling on the whole "FWB" thing, I just happened to luck out that she was also down for that. I think if anyone might feel "obligated", it would be her, especially since she knows I've never had sex before. Thus far, she seems to have been pretty up front to me about a lot of stuff, and it's not like I'm looking at her as a potential "girlfriend", so I figure it might do me some good to just have some "fun". Might as well, right? I'm still nervous, of course, but to be honest, the idea of sex, in general, makes me nervous, so that feeling is always going to exist regardless of who I'm with.

 

At this point, I think it might actually do you some good, since you'll feel as if you had a somewhat normal, semi-romantic experience with a woman. It seems like a lot of your frustration comes from not being similar to other guys in that way.

[MattW]

At this point, I think it might actually do you some good, since you'll feel as if you had a somewhat normal, semi-romantic experience with a woman. It seems like a lot of your frustration comes from not being similar to other guys in that way.

 

Yeah...

 

Plus, I mean, I think it's already a foregone conclusion that I will never find "love" and I'll probably never even get to go on a proper date with someone I'm actually attracted to. So, if my alternative is settling for a life of casual sex, I suppose "settling", in this sense, doesn't have to be so bad. Maybe this is just the best I can really hope for, in life?

 

Heck, now that things seem to be going well with this woman and I'm pretty confident she and I will be hooking up in the very near future, maybe it's time I start looking around for my second sex partner. Hm.

[penelope13]

Heck, now that things seem to be going well with this woman and I'm pretty confident she and I will be hooking up in the very near future, maybe it's time I start looking around for my second sex partner. Hm.

 

 

While you should be prepared that things might not work out for one reason or another, there is also no point in always worrying about the distant future and thus forgetting to live in the now.

[MattW]

Oh, no, I didn't mean it in a "worry about" it kind of way, I just meant that maybe I should be looking for new potential sex partners, become sort of a "juggler of women", get a little hedonistic with it, indulge in the whole casual sex thing, yanno?

[penelope13]

Why not first go through with this experience and see how you feel afterwards?

[BritterSweet]

Oh, no, I didn't mean it in a "worry about" it kind of way, I just meant that maybe I should be looking for new potential sex partners, become sort of a "juggler of women", get a little hedonistic with it, indulge in the whole casual sex thing, yanno?

 

By all means, if that's what you want to do, go ahead. Just make sure the women themselves know this and are in on it too.

[Slimpee]

Matt, in my opinion, the answer to your myriad threads is always the same: seek some professional help.

 

That said, it seems like you have a classic self-fulfilling prophecy going on. Your mother instilled in you various negative beliefs. Thus, you view the world through lenses tainted by those beliefs. You already believe the world is that way so you behave accordingly. Surprise, that leads to the expected result!

 

You may not even realize how deeply-rooted those beliefs have become. For example, you've said in the past that you rarely find women to whom you're attracted. Then, you had this girl you worked with who was, in your opinion, great for you but it didn't work out. This "rejection" serves only to reinforce the negative feelings you feel about yourself. After all, it took so long to find a girl you think is compatible with you and she rejected you. Back to square 1.

 

You have to find a way to break the cycle. I strongly urge you to seek professional help.

[MattW]

Why not first go through with this experience and see how you feel afterwards?

 

Well, I just feel like if this is the route I'm going to go down, I might as well indulge in it as much as I possibly can, yanno?

 

By all means, if that's what you want to do, go ahead. Just make sure the women themselves know this and are in on it too.

 

Heh, well... I wouldn't say that it's what I REALLY want, but what I really want is just not a possibility for me, so it seems this kind of lifestyle would be the next best thing. Of course, I would try to make sure any women I get involved with are not being deceived or anything like that.

 

@ Slimpee

 

Your post has a lot of truth to it. I guess I just feel like therapy would be pointless. I mean, I'd probably just argue with them as much as I do you guys, except I'd have to pay a bunch of money to do it. Seems like a waste of money, to me. I don't know that anyone can really help me. I feel like I'm way too far gone, too broken, for that kind of thing to be of any help.

[Slimpee]

@ Slimpee

 

Your post has a lot of truth to it. I guess I just feel like therapy would be pointless. I mean, I'd probably just argue with them as much as I do you guys, except I'd have to pay a bunch of money to do it. Seems like a waste of money, to me. I don't know that anyone can really help me. I feel like I'm way too far gone, too broken, for that kind of thing to be of any help.

 

This is a prime example of what i'm talking about. You're convinced you'll get a certain result so you don't bother trying and you're stuck in the same place. Man, you really need to break that cycle of thinking. Problems dating are merely the symptom...you need to treat the disease.

[allcity]

You're convinced you'll get a certain result so you don't bother trying and you're stuck in the same place. Man, you really need to break that cycle of thinking. Problems dating are merely the symptom...you need to treat the disease.

 

I've got to co-sign this 100%!

 

I've met so many guys (never women, oddly enough) that whine on about the unfairness of their lives and yet they have a million and one reasons to never try anything that might make their life better, as they already 'know' that it won't work for them.

 

And then I bump into them five years later and nothing has changed for them and they're still complaining about the same 'unfair' life they have, without ever realising that not only will their life almost certainly never change unless they change it, but also who in God's name would want to date someone that lives their life with zero responsibility for their own actions and a "why bother trying...it won't work anyway" attitude?!

 

I'm not accusing you of this, Matt, as I haven't read many of your threads. Just saying, listen to Slimpee and don't be one of these guys that never goes anywhere because they're too much of a coward to step outside of their (unhappy) comfort zone.

 

Even if these guys did meet someone, I guarantee that their GF would run for the hills after a short time going out with someone so passive and negative.

[MattW]

This is a prime example of what i'm talking about. You're convinced you'll get a certain result so you don't bother trying and you're stuck in the same place. Man, you really need to break that cycle of thinking. Problems dating are merely the symptom...you need to treat the disease.

 

How do I do that, though? I don't purposely try to just blow off the stuff you guys say, but I sort of play out scenarios in my head, and I recognize how I'd probably act in these scenarios. Case in point, again, with therapy, I just don't know that I could go into it with an open mind. I really feel like I'd go in and just talk in circles to a therapist, and get nowhere, just like I do with you guys here. Again, the only difference being that I'd be paying money to do that, which, again, to me, would be a waste of money.