Men, how do you feel when women are unjustly frightened/scared of you?

[lady00]

How is that sexist discrimination? My understanding of sexist discrimination is that it is harmful to the object and there is no good reason. How does this qualify as that?

[Seraphim]

You're in no way harming anybody by not getting in an elevator with them . That is not sexism at all. How is the man harmed because a woman did not get in the elevator? Most likely he hasn't even noticed or even thought about it. It is not like we scream out "I'm not getting on the elevator with you because you could be a rapist because you are a man."

[pointless]

In your opinion the fact that someone would rather wait for another elevator that going on the same elevator that you will not cause any kind of psychological harm? Or the fact that men are supposed to expect woman to fear them? What kind of self image will a young boy create in a world where he is told that men are to be feared and can hurt him or his family any time? You may not be yelling "I'm not getting on the elevator with you could could be a rapist because you are a man" but your actions are saying it.

 

On the other hand I can give you a better example. I have known many guys that got murdered because someone paid a woman, an acquaintance of his, to lure him into places where they could mug or kill him for vengeance. Would it be fair for me to tell the men I know to never trust women and avoid meeting them even if they know them? That's

[Seraphim]

I do trust men. I am married and have my own son. If I did not trust them I would not have got married. But however I am sorry I am not going to put myself in danger because someone might feel "psychological damage" because I caught another elevator. They should try on my psychological damage for a day because I was raped so many times. If they are psychologically damaged because I did not get on an elevator they might need help more than I do.

[Gilson]

How is that sexist discrimination? My understanding of sexist discrimination is that it is harmful to the object and there is no good reason. How does this qualify as that?

 

No, I believe any time you make a decision based on somebody's sex, it is sexism, whether or not there is any harm done or intended just the same as if it's based on race (racism) or whatnot. It's the same thing if I treat a customer differently because they're in a wheelchair. They might be offended if I try to help because I think they are incapable, it's a form of descrimination.

 

But I don't think anybody is going to tell you not to put yourself in a situation that you're not comfortable with.

 

You're in no way harming anybody by not getting in an elevator with them . That is not sexism at all. How is the man harmed because a woman did not get in the elevator? Most likely he hasn't even noticed or even thought about it. It is not like we scream out "I'm not getting on the elevator with you because you could be a rapist because you are a man."

 

Now, if the woman is in the elevator and a man approaches the elevator and she refuses to let him on...? Is it any different? Is this any more or less sexist?

 

How would you feel if a man refused to get into an elevator with you because he was afraid you were going to accuse him of sexually assaulting you?

 

I think this is a relevant question. It seems to point to the idea that people generally think it's silly when a MAN reports sexual assault.

 

In many companies when a male supervisor (for example) needs to speak to a female subordinate behind closed doors, there needs to be a third person, a witness. This person is there for TWO reasons, one to protect the subordinate against sexual assault and the other to protect the supervisor against false accusations of sexual assault.

[OptomisticGirl]

I try not to go it but obviously I do sometimes. I've been molested, it's built into me now to be hyper vigilant to everyone. I'm also an avid crime show watcher so it's not just men I watch out for - couples and woman are on my radar as well. If my urge to flee is so strong I can't think of anything else I don't ignore that instinct. I've seen too many women ignore it and end up dead, raped, or both.

 

And men can be attacked too. I don't think men are as vigilant about their safety as they should be. So I a guy wouldn't get on a elevator with me e cause he was afraid I'd hurt him great, means he's looking out for himself.

[pointless]

The harm doesn't come from you not walking into the elevator but from the fact that it is social acceptable to assume that a man will harm you. Not walking with a man into an elevator will protect you from a rapist but it will not protect you from the woman who saw your purse and felt that it should be hers or will give her enough money for her next fix, or from the woman that saw you talking with "Her Man" and wouldn't have any of it. The fact is that people hurt people but women seems to be fixated into just the men hurt woman part and it has become sociable acceptable to do so.

[Gilson]

But just to be understood, you do what you need to to feel safe. The OP's actions are victimless.

[Seraphim]

Firstly, I would NEVER falsely accuse anyone. I know not all women are like that.

 

Two, I know men who have been sexually assaulted and it is just as awful when it happens to women. My own husband was sexually harrassed at work and I avidly told him to report it and have it end.

[lady00]

I also avoid people on the street who appear mentally disabled or disturbed not sure what the right word is, that are yelling or displaying other behaior that i find frightening. Recently a woman who was mumbling to herself pushed a man onto a subway track. Not the first time. No idea if she was mentally disabled but I would not stand between someone who is talking to himself or herself and he subway tracks. Is that wrong?

[lady00]

I should be clear that I don't do the elevator thing and suspicious behavior alerts me, not the mere presence of a male. That is my whole point.

[pointless]

No you are basing your decision on those people actions, no on their gender, race or hair color

[pointless]

But the original point on the thread is about the mere presence of a man.

[Seraphim]

I should be clear that I don't do the elevator thing and suspicious behavior alerts me, not the mere presence of a male. That is my whole point.

 

Exactly. I do not get in an elevator almost never. It is not because a man is in it. It is the same if a woman is in it. I don't care. I despise elevators. If it less than 15 flights of stairs I walk. If it is more than I wait until someone gets on that elevator WITH me so I am not alone. I would HATE to be stuck in there alone.

[OptomisticGirl]

I asked my husband this and he said he wouldn't feel bad if a woman did this - Shes protecting herself. And he always makes it a point not to follow too closely behind a woman who may be walking alone.

[Gilson]

I also avoid people on the street who appear mentally disabled or disturbed not sure what the right word is, that are yelling or displaying other behaior that i find frightening. Recently a woman who was mumbling to herself pushed a man onto a subway track. Not the first time. No idea if she was mentally disabled but I would not stand between someone who is talking to himself or herself and he subway tracks. Is that wrong?

 

Well, technically speaking it is "wrong" to treat ANY personal differently because of any real or perceived or assumed difference. Whether it's due to race, sex, creed, ethnicity, mental capability, sexual orientation, physical ability, hair color, eye color, L/R handedness, height, weight...

 

That is not to say that you're wrong to not get into an elevator alone with a man if you don't feel comfortable. There is no victim.

[Blue Spiral]

There's a difference between sexist thinking and sexist treatment. This sort of thing isn't treating someone in a sexist way, it's thinking of them in a sexist way. But I don't blame women for it at all. If I were in their shoes, I'd do the exact same thing.

[DN]

People are free within limits to do what they want. But to pretend this isn't sexist is not really believable. The chance of being sexually assaulted in an elevator is minuscule just as being accused of sexually assaulting someone in an elevator is minuscule. A fear based on such a slight occurrence is not based on reason but on a sexist view of men/women in general. If it were based on reason, no one would ever ride in a car for the chances of being involved in an accident are far higher.

 

It's this sort of prejudice and discrimination that led to this: link removed

[lady00]

Here is an example that recently happened to me. I saw a tall man standing on the sidewalk. Broad daylight, just standing there. I thought that highly suspicious. There was no apparent reason for where he was standing. I instantly felt nervous. Then as a I approached, he started speaking to me saying nonsensical things. I felt harassed and hurried along. It appeared he was just loitering and speaking to women who passed by. He didn't appear to be begging, which is fairly common in my city and i would not find suspicious. If I had gone with my initial instinct, I would have crossed the street before I got to him. Next time, I am going with my gut. The next guy could be dangerous. Call it sexist, I call it being a smart woman who has her wits about her and is safety conscious. I think some men are complacent about safety. I know one guy who walked by a group of men in a park in the middle of the night. They robbed him. I would find a group of men in a park at night suspicious and would not pass by there. Yes, they could be completely harmless but to me that sets off alarm bells. I would think the same of a group of young women.

[Gilson]

Exactly. I do not get in an elevator almost never. It is not because a man is in it. It is the same if a woman is in it. I don't care. I despise elevators.

 

Then this is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

 

Anyway, as far as the topic goes, I'd think the elevator would be safer than the stairwell.

[Seraphim]

But the original point on the thread is about the mere presence of a man.

 

The thing is though, 95% of women are smaller than men and almost 100% are not as strong as a man. Hm. Not being aware that you could face harm at some point in your life would just be stupid. Over 50% of women at some point in their life are attacked in some way or another. True, most of the attackers are known to the victim, but some are not. Having PTSD I am always going to look about and see if there is potential to be harmed. If people are insulted by that I am not going to worry about it. I think though people who are insulted by it have not been vulnerable or talked to their female family members about what has happened to them. EVERYONE at some point should know that most likely some female members of their family HAVE been assaulted even if they have no knowledge of it.

[DN]

Over 50% of women at some point in their life are attacked in some way or another.

So are men, in fact the incidence for men is even higher.

[pointless]

I asked my husband this and he said he wouldn't feel bad if a woman did this - Shes protecting herself. And he always makes it a point not to follow too closely behind a woman who may be walking alone.

This is exactly my point. I has become social acceptable to discriminate towards men believing them to be dangerous to the point that men act accordingly. Instead of fighting the stereotype we just accept it. There is an stereotype about black people, men and woman, being more violent that the other races counterpart. Will it be acceptable to expect black men and women to don't walk closely from anybody else? I'm not against protecting yourself from dangers, what I'm against is about assuming that men are a danger just because they are men.

[pointless]

A pocket knife or a concealed gun can easily close that gap. You can't assume anything just based in gender. And like DN said, so are men.

[Gilson]

Here is an example that recently happened to me. I saw a tall man standing on the sidewalk. Broad daylight, just standing there. I thought that highly suspicious. There was no apparent reason for where he was standing. I instantly felt nervous. Then as a I approached, he started speaking to me saying nonsensical things. I felt harassed and hurried along.

 

I'm not suggesting you're wrong here. If you don't feel safe, you don't feel safe. But you felt harassed by nonsensical things? Seems a little uptight doesn't it? My boss is constantly comeing to me with nonsensical things AND he's a visible minority. Imagine!!

 

I wouldn't walk through a park late at night with people hanging around either.

 

In my city there has been a rash of swarmings/muggings in recent years.