Dating a younger man from online dating site

[Nattersmatter]

I have to log off now so, if you have - spilt milk/missed opportunity. If you haven't - take your time, don't rush. You're very popular, your life is very full, hence you're very busy, and plus you lately have your mind on (cough!) things other than remembering to open your email account. ;-)

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: Don't leave it for more than 12hrs though.

[rapunzel]

I replied a couple of hours after he sent it. Today is Tuesday as far as I can remember and the plan is for Thursday. So if I waited until tomorrow, he may think I was *not* going and may have moved to make other plans. Wasn't willing to deal with that so I decided to just go ahead and reply to his email, confirm the plan and now I can relax.

[Nattersmatter]

Rapunzel, so WHAT if he potentially proved himself so self-centred as to throw a little tantrum-y flouncing-off that you weren't jumping to immediate attention ergo couldn't possibly have been sat there constantly glued to your PC seat waiting for a finger-click? What about the fact HE isn't sat there constantly to attention over you???

 

Not leaving it over 12hrs is one thing - it's just enough of a delay that you don't smack of desperatation yet neither too much of a delay whereby you could be said to have caused any change of mind on his part. But TWO??? What do you think a piddly two hours says when judged within the context of the entire course of recent events as set by him? Is that 'mirroring' as much as is practicable given the time constraint? It's not, is it. It's JUMPING TO ATTENTION AND POUNCING ON.

 

So - again - so WHAT if he might take it like that and react accordingly by opting out altogether? Wouldn't that just leave you under zero illusions any more and hence on a faster track to where you *should* be going?

 

This very tendency of yours as but a symptom of a wider tendency is, I reckon, maybe not wholly but certainly contributingly, why he's lost interest. Too little

 

In order to win, in order to be considered a winner and hence someone anyone would wish to alliance themselves with, you have to want it just enough, not too much whereby you're trying that bit TOO hard to force the outcome or prevent an outcome - not to mention before the outcome has even identified itself as being due. You do this and you communicate that you EXPECT to lose.

 

*No* man is so Godlike as to warrant THAT amount of uncontrollable desire. So the only reasonable conclusion is that it's *not* major desire but mostly FEAR. Oh, how flattering ..NOT! The object is to show them they're SPECIAL but where that specialness is real BECAUSE it takes TIME for them to demonstrably prove it (so subtle and subjective is anyone's specialness). You show you've concluded PREMATURELY that someone is special and all you reveal is this attitude: *a* man, *any* man, pant-pant! And if *you* don't want truly special, you yourself cannot be special (because special wants special).

 

Special are winners. Do winners expect to lose whereby they fear losing - even where loss might not be any bad thing - whereby they try to take too many measures to ensure they can't lose? What are 'winners' in this arena, anyway? What is 'attractive' and 'something to be sought after'? 'Goddesses' who know they're all that and behave accordingly as is their own way of demonstrably proving how special they are?

 

Answer on a postcard to:

Duh House

Duh Lane

Duhville

DUH N DOH

 

What is 'rejection', anyway, when wrought by someone whom by their sustainedly Less Than behaviour has proven they're not worth NOT being rejected by? Answer: bloomin' nothing.

 

If he would/could reject you then he is not your type because YOUR type is the type who has that certain type of eyesight that can see your particular beauty and desirability, berbom.

 

....whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiich brings us full circle yet again to : WHAT DO YOU WANT? A proper, serious, all-bells-and-whistles relationship or something diverting to do?

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

...Spilt milk now, of course, hence no point in worrying about it (despite you should take it on board from here).

 

You'll just have to wait for the next opportunity to show him how calm and unbothered and patient you are... because that's how one feels when they have a whole queue-ful of men lining up to be interviewed. And even if there isn't any line yet (because she's too busy and engaged in her full and satisfying life to even be stood where such lines get formed), she knows that the minute she does stand there, that line will form.

 

So where's the hurry, where's the worry.

 

Ya get me, sistah?

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

Look, we know it is doubtful that this guy is going to be the guy for me. He emailed me this morning to confirm the time he is picking me up. I would have preferred he did this yesterday or the day before but he waited until this morning. So what am I supposed to do, wait until the hour before he is picking me up to confirm? I waited two hours again to reply to his email this morning. So the meeting time is now 6 hours away. I am too busy to plan these delayed responses. I already know, nattermatters, you've made it very clear...that this guy is not that into me.

 

Yet I agreed to do this volunteer charity thing with him tonight and I am going to keep my word. That is who I am. Maybe someone else would have blown it off. After tonight, all bets are off. I'm tired of this game.

[Batya33]

I don't think it's a game- I think he's acting fairly consistently with a casual plan to get together. I'm glad he confirmed.

[rapunzel]

Thanks Batya. I'm a little jittery and that was helpful.

[meczam]

I skimmed all 21 pages.

 

Relationships are not supposed to be this much work, certainly a relationship is a place to feel safe and secure not a constant source of stress.

 

The age gap could be a problem for some, a non issue for others, and a dealbreaker for many.

 

You just never know but based on what I read in this thread you're wasting your time and emotional energy with this one.

[Batya33]

I don't think they have a relationship yet but I do agree that typically the first few dates where there is potential go more smoothly as far as communication and being in enough contact. Kind of like if you're starting to worry that it's been x time since you've heard from him all of a sudden there's an email or phone call.

[LoveSoDeep]

Don't get too hung up on others suggestions to wait longer....I think 2 hours is a heck of a lot better than instantly responding...It shows you are interested but you have other things going on. It's fine!

 

Now go and enjoy yourself....personally I would just concentrate on the charity work and get my fullfillmet be from that and if it ends up being a nice time with this guy then that's just a bonus...that way it's a win-win type situation.

[rapunzel]

Thanks LoveSoDeep...that has been my plan all along. Now he decides to get chatty with another email but I am working and honestly, do not have time to respond! The plan is set.

 

I agree meczam, it should not be a source of stress. Part of that is just my own stuff (overanalysis, worrying) on top of the fact that he seemed to pull away after the fourth date. My guess is he is dating others from the online dating site to "compare and contrast" or maybe because he is just not that sure about me and/or the age gap and/or he is just looking for companionship and not a relationship.

 

Also agree with Batya that it is not a relationship. I met him six weeks ago, and he has two children of which he has 50% custody (I have never dated a man with children). This is not a relationship, it is dating, and he is probably dating others. I had two men contact me yesterday (who I am not interested in but may date just the same) so I am "dating" as well.

[Nattersmatter]

Are you waving your handbag at me? Was it me who wined and dined you into hopefulness and then started d*cking you around? Air, I don't think so?!

 

Well, anyway, I didn't realise he had failed in his initial email to establish the time and how you'd get there or that you'd mirrored by failing to do it for him so, in fact, that's a positive which cancels out some of the unwarranted keennness on your part, thankfully. But, yes, if turning this situation around is what you're after as opposed to just wanting a casual/someone to pass the time with, you *are* supposed to take more than 2 hours without worrying whether he'll forget the whole thing (and being too busy serves only to support the argument for taking longer, actually). And, yes, if ever he - HE - still fails to firm up the crucial details or lets it become so overdue where it *does* then become reasonable for you, the woman, to presume the date is off and/or that he was never serious despite the initial act of booking you - that's HIS fault and HIS loss, not yours.

 

Only two hours delay in responding ONCE he's proven he wants the date so much he's willing to wait longer than 2 hours for your initial acceptance or to 'crack' and ask for the finer details rather than waiting for you to do it, is a different matter entirely, and at that point, is fine, for obvious reasons (you can't possibly be reacting out of panic because he's since proven the invitation is REAL, ergo, your delay must only be down to practical constraints).

 

In fact, I've been stating, crystal-clearly, that he's not into you ENOUGH for a man with TogetherForeverVille in mind or TFVille with you specifically. And meanwhile, I've been asking you What exactly are you aiming for?, yet you continue to leave the question unanswered. Why? Don't you know yet?

 

I expect you *are* tired of this game, yes. So would I be. It shouldn't BE this difficult. But the REASON it's difficult (she said, going Blue in the face) is because you 'refuse' to come to terms with what it is exactly you're aiming for in terms of what type of relationship thus don't know what behavioural template to compare his behaviour to in order to know whether he's coming up to scratch or not and by how much (hence how much scope for remedy there is or isn't).

 

However - you feeling pissed off is a very good indicator about what type you actually do hence by the same token don't want because, if Casual genuinely was fine for you, this would be nothing more than was to be expected and you wouldn't have been complaining in the first place. So I think we can now safely conclude that what you want is *not* casual. Right?

 

I'm glad you're pissed off, actually, and I suggest you STAY pissed off, including for the date. After all, with pissed off meaning disillusioned, unimpressed and about ready to throw in the towel, i.e. Jaded, he'll have a CHALLENGE on his hands, won't he (ooh - tasty challenge!!), when it comes to having to warm you back up to where you can be a*sed to be receptive, responsive and impressable whereby he gets to feel like a man of charming affect. He'll have to bl**dy WORK for his ego boost for a change, IOW!

 

*As it should be*.

 

But yet again - until you are VERY CLEAR in yourself about What you want thus Who you want and whether he's behaving like Who You Want as proves you're who HE wants, it's going to *remain* a situation where a lot of otherwise useful energy is wasted.

 

So! Do you want to re-excite and -inspire him if those are even possible, Yes or No?

 

xoxo

 

PS: Mine's a Prada, dwahling. ;-p

[Realitynut]

I have to log off now so, if you have - spilt milk/missed opportunity. If you haven't - take your time, don't rush. You're very popular, your life is very full, hence you're very busy, and plus you lately have your mind on (cough!) things other than remembering to open your email account. ;-)

 

xoxo

 

I just don't get with all this game playing. I am a very upfront person....if i want to talk to someone, i do. If someone doesn't seem interested in me..i lose interest in THEM!!! I don't want them MORE cuz they're hard to get. Unless a man is different.

 

Sheesh...wait to reply

don't seem too eager

Don't make the first move...

 

how old are we here girls???

 

No wonder guys always say they hate game players.

I never knew what they were talking about...until i read this thread.

 

I would really like to hear more mens points of view.

 

To me, it sounds as if he's not sure if SHE is interested. sigh....because she is. And finding someone you are interested in is TOUGH!

 

Rapunzel, i can't wait to hear about your date! Hope it went well. And i myself...personally...lol..would tell him that you weren't sure if the date ws still on, since you hadn't heard from him all week.

 

And i would say it cuz it's the TRUTH, and it's how you FEEL.....when did that ever go out of voque'.??

 

I guess i never read, 'How to catch a Man".....

[rapunzel]

I hear you, realitynut. It doesn't seem like we should have to play a game. People say when you meet "the One" (if there is such a thing....) that games are not necessary and you just know. Maybe that worked in past generations where they had less choice, married young and internet dating did not exist.

 

I read a great book years ago called "Intimate Connections" by David Burns, MD and I still re-read it to remind myself that the early stages of dating is indeed, a game. Life is a game, of sorts. The key is to have fun while you are playing the game and try not to take things personally. I highly recommend the dating chapters in this book to anyone.

 

Men and women are reportedly wired differently. Yes, we're all human beings and as such, most people want what they don't have or don't want to be chased or pressured. So if someone is throwing him or herself at you, the natural reaction is to recoil and run in the opposite direction. If it works for you to be eager, do the chasing, reply right away then..do it. It doesn't always work for me.....at least with the men I am attracted to. And I'm not saying that this is what YOU do....but if it feels unbalanced my natural reaction is to let the man lead. And if he doesn't and continues to not pursue with gentle encouragement, then I have my answer.

 

My date was really great. Really fun. He was romantic, attentive, and it felt like we had gotten closer. From my standpoint, we have a natural, effortless chemistry which (for me) is quite rare. Maybe he is able to achieve that with other women. Don't know. If so, more power to him. He dropped a couple of hints that indicate he is telling me he is still dating others. OK. Fine. I will do the same. I did not pressure nor try to find out "where do I stand, where is this going, who are you dating" because that would be the death knell and it's too soon. I agree with you, finding someone you are interested in is definitely not easy. It gets harder with age. Acceptance of this and maintaining a positive attitude is key.

 

"She" (meaning me) is definitely interested in this guy. If he doesn't know it by now, then that's his problem. Maybe he's a master "player" and will never settle down. Seems unlikely, he was with his ex-wife for over 10 years, had two long-ish relationships after that (one with a woman my age). If he wants to know or if he needs further validation of my interest, he can ask me but he probably doesn't think he needs validation (based on our date). I'm living in the present moment, our date is now just a very pleasant memory. If he thinks he can create better memories with someone else, then what can I do? Not a whole lot I can do about that. He did email me the next morning which to me, was a positive sign, and on Thursday in conversation it came up that we both had other previous plans for tonight (and yes, his could very well be a date with another woman).

 

If he waits another week between contact, then that will give me definite pause. I'll probably wait two to three days to reply this time. If he disappears because he decided another woman was a better match, I will let him. Yes, I will be disappointed but we've only had five dates so hopefully i will get over it quickly.

 

I did not tell him I was not sure if the date was on due to not hearing from him all week. Maybe I should have. Apparently, he felt we did have a date scheduled. I did drop one hint in the form of a gentle "barb" of sorts, if he doesn't pick up on it or think "what did she mean by that", well....too bad. If we continue to see each other, we will have to have a conversation about his communication style because clearly, if things progress, email contact alone doesn't work that well for me.

[Batya33]

I think you'll have a lot more information within the next week as far as how often he contacts you and when he tries to see you again. Glad you had fun!

 

I don't think what you're thinking of doing is game playing -you're giving him space to continue his meeting/dating others which is what he wants to do for now. I think you're just following his lead, contacting him basically as often as he contacts you and realizing that more contact than that might overwhelm him as he tries to figure out what his intentions are (towards you and others).

[lavenderdove]

Rapunzel, just enjoy it! That is what dating is supposed to be about, having fun, getting to know someone, taking your time rather than latching on to someone like you're both drowning. And if you enjoy each other, then keep seeing him. and if you don't, then stop.

 

I think this guy IS interested, but he's a middle aged man with a big job and 50% custody of his kids. And if he's a good father, he WILL put his kids first and does need to pay attention to his job to support them, so he will not jump into an overheated and potentially unwise full-on relationship with a woman until he is more sure that she's a keeper. And if he's a successful man, he is most likely very busy in his career as well and has to juggle lots of different priorities.

 

And he may be a GOOD man in that he doesn't instantly start putting the full on push on you because many women do take that as a deeper commitment and he doesn't want to lead you on and wants to make sure you are a good potential long term partner before spending lots of time with you and getting you attached when he is not sure where it is going. Not everyone wants to be joined at the hip from day one, and frankly it isn't the best approach because people get really hurt when they do that and then it blows up with more time is spent and one person decides they don't want it.

 

Don't be anyone's internet puppet. By that i mean, some people may enjoy toying with you on your threads trying to show how clever they are and trying to use you as an internet experiment or game to get you to do whatever they tell you to do. This is your life, your choices, your personality etc., and you need to not let anyone try to control your mind or actions or force you to overthink things because they are enjoying blabbering at you and trying to get you to be a convert to their 'religion' and do everything they say. that is about their own ego and entertainment and not about trying to help you or support you.

 

People are wildly different in their thoughts and approaches to life and dating, and there is no one cookie cutter 'right' way to date or behave when it comes to making a relationship work or succeed. One person's relationship where they are happy might be considered terrible and smothering by someone else. Some people are happy in monogamous relationships, some are happy with casual dating, some a swingers, some prefer to stay single, some couples live in each other's pockets, some don't even live in the same town, some have one dominant person and one 'slave', and some are true equals. It is not one size fit all, and your task is getting out there and enjoying your life and finding out what works for you in terms of life and a partner.

 

So your guide is to continue to date him if you find him interesting and enjoyable and as long as he isn't doing anything abusive or really offputting, and to not make too many assumptions one way or another until you have spent enough time with him to get the data you need to make a decision on who he is and where this is going. If you start to get unhappy with him in any way, then you can dump him. But you shouldn't dump him just because he isn't behaving in a way that someone else thinks doesn't suit some old fashioned dating 'rules' or because he isn't asking to move in with you after a few dates... it is what suits YOU that matters and whether he is doing what he says he will do and hence showing he is a decent man, and so far he has. If he starts showing you any dishonorable or disrespectful behavior (and he certainly hasn't so far), then you might consider dumping him.

 

The worst that can be said of him so far is that he is a busy man who also appears to be a cautious man when it comes to not leaping in with both feet when dating, and frankly i consider that good rather than bad. Nothing is worse than a guy who jumps in with both feet as if he thinks you are perfect and puts a full on rush on, then when he gets closer, goes 'meh, i think not' and dumps you just as quickly as he rode into town.

 

This guy just seems more measured in his approach, and that may be a part of his personality and a good thing. perhaps he will get more interested, perhaps not. but i wouldn't judge him harshly because he has kept his word all along and done what he said he would do which is a good thing. i don't understand in the least why he is getting all this criticism from some posters because he is not texting and calling you like a teenager when he has other adult responsibilities and his own personality that may not enjoy constant phone blabbering and texts, especially if he wants to take is slow and not jump into anything he doesn't intend to finish. I know MANY people who don't spend a lot of time phoning and texting, and who don't spend hours on the phone and millions of texts between dates, and they are perfectly interested and the relationships work out fine.

 

So this is five dates only... you're just getting to know him and can't really judge one way or another. if you are enjoying the dates, keep going. and if you're not, then stop. and if he stops asking you on dates or you stop enjoying him, then keep looking. don't overthink your way out of this or let others who don't know him at all make you think he's some kind of a jerk just because he's a busy man with children and a cautious one.

[Batya33]

I agree with Lavenderdove other than I think that if he was seriously interested in her he would be far more transparent about his limited time and would want her to know how interested he is despite the limited time (I know of a very similar situation where the couple, both 50, divorced with teenagers/young children met on line and almost immediately became exclusive with the disclaimer that with his schedule and geography he could not see her every weekend -but she never had any doubt of his strong interest- still doesn't, a few years later) - I think his interest is lukewarm right now but could change of course. I think it's true that we all bring our own perspectives but I find that Rapunzel in this thread finds clarity fairly quickly concerning what she wants to do and what she expects.

[Ms Darcy]

In my opinion, what is most important is that you relax. Wait and see. It is early yet and while he is great on dates, he's not exactly excited in between. To me that means take it with a grain of salt. It could go far; it might not.

 

I think if you don't assume he's interested in a relationship, you will be less disappointed if he isn't and pleasantly surprised if he is.

 

In my opinion, you don't have to do much for a man who is really into you. Just reciprocate happily and live your life.

[rapunzel]

Thanks Batya and Lavenderdove...I guess I agree with both of you.

 

I'm not privy to his kid schedule but it would appear he would have them this coming week. He does not seem to be very communicative during his kid-week. I guess I understand that but I also agree with Batya that if he was seriously interested he would drop an email or text while he has his kids (they do go to school, he doesn't have them every second) or even a phone call (unlikely) to check in, it only takes a few moments. My sense is that he feels pretty secure in the knowledge that I am "into" him and thus may feel less pressure to keep me in his direct orbit.

 

It is a little unsettling to think that after our dates he continues to want to date others (I am assuming this, of course, have no concrete evidence) but perhaps that is a good thing, as lavenderdove suggests. I maintain that he has better prospects and a larger pool of potential partners to pick from than I do. Still, as I said, to find a strong seemingly effortless connection (when we're together) seems rare. I've never been much into multi-dating, especially at my age, it seems like too much trouble to juggle that many people. Yet I m going to try to go on a date or two with other people in the next couple of weeks.

 

I just have to let go, enjoy the passage of time and be patient, not project into the future.

[rapunzel]

In my opinion, what is most important is that you relax. Wait and see. It is early yet and while he is great on dates, he's not exactly excited in between. To me that means take it with a grain of salt. It could go far; it might not.

 

I think if you don't assume he's interested in a relationship, you will be less disappointed if he isn't and pleasantly surprised if he is.

 

In my opinion, you don't have to do much for a man who is really into you. Just reciprocate happily and live your life.

 

Thanks Ms. Darcy. Good reminders.

[browneyedgirl36]

I think that lavender, Batya, and MsDarcy all make GREAT points, so no need for me to re-state.

 

If you suspect he's dating others, you definitely should as well (or you should be open to it) OR, at the very least, you need to remain grounded and realize that there will probably come a point where he will want to choose (or you will need him to choose). My suggestion (and now I'm going to sound like I'm lecturing, I fear), is that you NOT have sex with him until you have a discussion about seeing/dating/sleeping with others. There is so much ambiguity around this in the early stages of dating/relationships, and often people jump into sex without knowing what the other person's intentions are. This, as you know, can lead to disappointment and heartbreak, and it's also not good for one's physical health if the other person is sleeping with one or more others. I know you know this, but...it's hard, when the chemistry is there, NOT to give into it and just let stuff happen, but you need to put yourself first -- your emotional and physical health.

 

I can't say whether things will go anywhere between you two right now. It sounds like there IS some interest on his part, but the long lapses in between contacts (children or no children -- my ex had 50% custody and used to call me/e-mail me/text me when he had his kids with him), and the fact that he made plans for both weekend nights and made sure you knew about it suggests to me that he's interested in keeping his options open, too. I'm sorry if that's blunt, but I've experienced this as well and twisted my brain into all sorts of pretzels trying to explain this kind of stuff away rather than being honest with myself and saying, "OK, we're not exclusive, thus I need to NOT get attached." It's difficult when someone seems to be what we're looking for not to build expectations. Everyone tells me (and my ex used to tell me too), "you have too many expectations, you need to stop having expectations" and while I would get frustrated with people telling me that (I would love for someone to tell me how NOT to have them -- I've tried and failed miserably!) I realize too that they are right to an extent. It's OK to want things, but it's not good to tie a bunch of hopes and dreams to someone or something; we have to temper our hopes/expectations with a healthy dose of realism, knowing that, while the person may seem great and we really like him, nothing's guaranteed, and we need to be happy no matter what happens.

 

The guy I was dating this summer -- the one I wrote about in my PM -- took AGES to get in contact sometimes, and he had no kids, no real responsibilities other than a full-time job and a side business that, admittedly, took up a lot of his weekends. At first, I told myself, "Well, his side business takes up a lot of his free time, doesn't mean he's not interested," but as time wore one, I realized that, while he WAS interested to some degree -- and was definitely interested when we were on a date -- it just wasn't enough to keep him consistent, and nothing came of the dating. I didn't get physical with him at all, thankfully, because that would have assured that I'd become attached -- physical intimacy does tend to create the illusion of "feelings" when one doesn't technically know another well enough to actually HAVE those feelings!

 

Anyway...just see what happens in the next week or so -- when/if you hear from him, if he suggests another outing, etc. In the meantime, try to focus as much as possible on a variety of other things and keep on keepin' on, as they say. Keep us posted!

[EssexMan]

the fact that he made plans for both weekend nights and made sure you knew about it suggests to me that he's interested in keeping his options open, too.

 

Easily overlooked, though, that when someone has other plans that doesn't mean they are dating plans. Maybe he's passionately into sport, or stand-up comedy, or Mozart, or goodness knows what, and didn't want to miss something. Even daters have lives beyond dating, generally.

[EssexMan]

Rapunzel, just enjoy it! That is what dating is supposed to be about, having fun, getting to know someone, taking your time rather than latching on to someone like you're both drowning. And if you enjoy each other, then keep seeing him. and if you don't, then stop...

 

(etc. etc. etc.)

 

Terrifically well-said! I'd put it on a T-shirt if I could find one big enough.

[rapunzel]

Easily overlooked, though, that when someone has other plans that doesn't mean they are dating plans. Maybe he's passionately into sport, or stand-up comedy, or Mozart, or goodness knows what, and didn't want to miss something. Even daters have lives beyond dating, generally.

 

I'm going to assume at least one of the nights he has a date with a woman. You are correct though, on the other night he may doing something with a male friend, or who knows what. Or he may have dates with two different women - we just don't know!