Dating a younger man from online dating site

[Batya33]

I think that if he wanted to ask you for a date at that point that would not have deterred him but I agree about the phone. I think your response was fine and I think he was signaling that he's really busy/overwhelmed as far as seeing you again.

[rapunzel]

Yes, which is why I felt the tone was somewhat cautionary after I re-read it, although as I said, we have joked about "burning the candle" before. He had gotten up early the next morning to play in a pick-up game/athletic thing so he probably did not get enough sleep. Hmmm...maybe his email was a goodbye of sorts, or at least foreshadowing.

[PaintWithLight]

I guess you haven't read my later posts! I'm definitely (sadly) aware of the signs and indications...well aware of the reality and not forging ahead as I'm not going to pursue him and he's not exactly chomping at the bit to see me (although I know he has his kids right now). I just posted that my intuition is telling me to chalk this one up.

 

How do you explain his alpha male behavior when I saw a male friend I knew at a crowded bar?

 

Alpha male? This is what I mean about the spin you put on his actions. I guess it could be alpha male but I saw it as just plain immaturity and social awkwardness. "Is this why you brought me here?" Yikes, my toes curled in embarrassment for him. EVEN if that is what he thought, he should not say it until he is certain that is the case. Otherwise, he comes off as insecure.

 

Alpha male at a bar strides into the room and mingles easily with men and women, even if they are new people. People from your life are treated with interest as an opportunity to learn more about who you like and what makes you tick. He allows you to mingle as well but keeps in touch with occasional eye contact accross the room. The alpha knows that you are leaving with him and knows that you have selected to spend time with him. He is secure no matter what unexpected events happen socially.

 

Instead, I saw his suspicion and competitiveness with you. That rings of lack of self confidence. But maybe like you said, he is just cautious and obviously wounded from his divorce.

[Nattersmatter]

I took her use of Alpha Male to mean brimming with too much testosterone and ego fully awake and with its fists in the air, and as a momentary rather than permanent attitude of his. I wouldn't call him Alpha in the full sense myself (do what? don't mek me laff!).

 

Yep - Text equals Misinterpretations & Misunderstandings, alright, LOL.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Talking of what is male, what isn't...

 

Why is it modern-day women are so actions-blind all the time? What would you gals think if an ex rang and said what basically amounted to this: "I'm just ringing you to tell you I am completely over you so there! [click!]"? I'm imagining you'd all be sobbing into your hankies, going, Whaaah, he hates meeee!, whereas I know the large majority of men would be grinning and punching the air going, 'Ha-ha - reee-SULT! - she isn't over me!'.

 

Actions. Actions, actions, actions, actions, AC-SHUUUUUUU-NZ-UH! Plug your ears, switch your conscious processors off, hear only this: "mwa-mwa-mwa-mwa-mwaaa", and just concentrate on their feet!.... RATHER THAN NOT SEND AN EMAIL OR WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT DAY - HE MAAAAIIIIL-DUH! - and with an excuse meant to keep her placated.

 

It's like this: me once bent over in an open plan office, taking something out of the bottom drawer of the filing cabinet, and the male (chauvenist) office manager (cheeky fecker considering I wasn't even a colleague but a visiting consultant!) blurts loudly for all to hear, 'Cor, har-har, you've got quite a big bum, haven't you!!' (No, I didn't - he was a skinny arse with a skinny arse gf... but what my bum did/didn't look like wasn't the point). I turned around, looked him squarely in the eye and loudly retorted, 'So what? You were still LOOKING, weren't you, har-har yourself'. Game, set and match (and yes, more time showed he wasn't just threatened by me but also fancied the pants off of me (what a nasty conflict)).

 

Too tired is as too tired does - doesn't email until it's no longer too tired, like the next day or so. If he was done with Rapunzel, he wouldnn't have cared about responding sooner rather than later or never, because there's nothing to lose by behaving in such a way where she's likely to conclude, 'Sod it - I'm done with this bozo'. So obviously, this outcome he doesn't want.

 

He may not be taking the relationship further but he's still trying to maintain it, which still equates to . Either this purely maintaining is because he IS genuinely *over-stretched or it's because - initial chemical/sexual excitement having been gotten under control - he very quickly started to wonder if he wasn't jumping back into the very first relationship that came along, meaning he's back on the site double-checking whether there is or isn't anything better before he makes his final choice (I myself am guilty of that). Clearly, he HASN'T stumbled accross anyone better or he'd not have taken her out on Saturday night of all number one nights nor have been disposed to act all possessive nor, as I say, have been arsed to ensure he replied sooner rather than later.

 

Maybe after he's done enough double-checking over what else is out there, he'll realise he *has* got the woman for him? Yes, ordinarily a blokie should know that from The Off. But this ain't no ordinary blokie - he's obviously - OBVIOUSLY - still in DefCon (and I'd put him at 2 - well skitterish), as PaintsWithLight, herself, can tell. He's had his faith in himself and his own judgement/choices to-date, seriously knocked; he doesn't know WHAT he's doing (yet).

 

(*Somewhat unlikely considering he has time to cruise the dating site, however - eezamaan... who ever said they always acted sensibly when it comes to what's in their own best interests (ha-ha, WOT?!)? It might actually be that's he's found cruising/bantering/flirting relaxes him, keeps him anchored, and helps him to unwind after a hard day's work for all we know?)

 

All we do know is the actions, and these say MAINTENANCE/PRESERVATION despite not actually Cultivation. So, Rapunzel, that's what you should be mirroring - to even the playing field - because obviously you don't have enough self-confidence at this point in time to be capable of keeping yourself chilled and laid-back about it all. Get thy own bumcheeks back on that puter chair and get flirting with all those zillions of other fishies out there!... even if just to keep you aware that there ARE plenty of other fishies.

 

My own suspicion, in fact, is that you yourself aren't quite as sure about him as YOU thought - him playing the field or not - but that you're blaming it all on him and what he's doing/not doing. Not that he doesn't make this easy, obviously. But still...

 

*Actions*.

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

PaintWithLight, you are correct - perhaps alpha male was the wrong way to describe his behavior. I was embarrassed for him too but I was certainly NOT going to let him think I did anything wrong or that I was intentionally trying to make him feel insecure. In fact, I think he later said something to me, indicating it was insecurity but the place was loud and we were drinking wine, so I don't remember exactly what he said. It was just interesting to see this very attractive man, extremely well educated, has traveled the world more than anyone I've met, is well employed, has other noteworthy accomplishments that I won't list here for privacy reasons, is a very talented writer, has children and a house...so seemingly threatened by me just greeting and briefly chatting with a male I've known for many years (of course, he doesn't know how long or HOW I know said male) - in my city, where I've lived for over 20 years.

 

I am pretty sure his wife dumped him. Why would he be suspicious of me? Or competitive? This was date #4 and I've accepted every date with him. I have enough life experience that I don't grill the guy on our dates, I haven't asked him anything about what he wants or what he is looking for in a relationship (I know a lot of women do this, which I think is a mistake). I offer very little about myself and (hee hee) he doesn't ask me a lot about myself (e.g. how many siblings do you have? I don't think he knows or has asked). Surprised? Ha ha. Things come up in conversation and in his emails, and I prefer it that way rather than being interviewed besides, it's best to keep some mystery and let things unfold. Thus far, our interactions and banter have felt very easy and natural with this undercurrent of sexual chemistry and I feel no need to ask him about himself as he offers information and then I learn about him through asking follow up questions but I don't dig too deep.

 

Despite sounding insecure myself here on this thread, it's mostly about the age difference which I feel is a valid concern, as you agreed with, PaintwithLight. I feel pretty confident when I'm with him and writing about it just helps me get out the stuff swirling in my head (since I live alone, don't have a shrink and my friends can take only so much!) My kvetching here notwithstanding, I've also felt very confident and natural with our "chemistry", and I never ask him when I'm going to see him again, I'm usually gently pushing him out the door and laughing and maybe this makes him feel like he doesn't quite "have" me. All of the societal stuff about women, sexuality and the double standard is what gets me AFTER he leaves and, I see him cruising on the site...so my mind takes over and I start to worry. Which I realize is a BIG waste of time.

[rapunzel]

Thanks for your last post, Nattermatters. I read it a few times. Yeah, he emailed when he was "tired" the next night but no word since. Yesterday I was feeling fine with it (relatively speaking) and looking for other eligible bachelors on the stupid dating sight, even "favorited" a whole bunch but today I feel let down and discouraged. I'll snap out of it. A few years ago when I talked about being single with my sister who is divorced and single for many years, she said that I might have to accept that this might be "it"...meaning, we're done, we're cooked, we missed our chances and that's just life. I'm really fighting that feeling today. I'll snap out of it.

 

I was out with two girlfriends last night and the unemployed, smoking doctor called me but we were in a loud restaurant/bar. One friend encouraged me to give him a chance. I have to say smoking is my number one deal breaker. I absolutely cannot tolerate it. Nice guy, but an unemployed surgeon who smokes? Something is wrong with this picture.

 

One friend I call Positive Pollyanna keeps telling me it's too soon to expect anything from the guy I've been dating, he has his kids this week so he's totally consumed (but not too consumed to surf the dating site all week??) and I need to be patient and just date other guys. He'll come around, she says. My other friend kept quiet with a furrowed brow and I know what she's thinking. "He's just not that into you." Or insert popular excuse here....He's not over his divorce, he's emotionally unavailable, he wants someone younger, blah blah blah. Bottom line: if he *was* that into me, he'd have contacted me by now to see if he can see me next week when he is kid-free. I don't know, I've never dated a divorced man with kids so maybe it is normal to not hear from them when they have their kids? Maybe he thinks I'm that "ace in the hole" as he already knows I'm attracted to him so he's just assuming he can let 6-7 days go by but of course, he'll see me next week? Nah, those are excuses. His kids are at the age where they don't need constant supervision and he had plenty of time to look for other ladies on the dating site. He could have dropped a little email or text to check in and he did NOT.

 

OK, this has been therapeutic...I feel a little better after typing it out here. I'm a romantic at heart so when something seems really promising and it turns out that is not the case, it is depressing but that is the game of dating. The problem is I'm at the age where women do a lot of sitting on the bench, hoping for one last chance to get a chance to play (unless we want to date men in their 70's. One thing I need to continually remind myself of is that I did not know this man just 5 weeks ago. I had no idea he existed (except in photos on the internet). I was fine before I met him and I'll be fine if I never see or hear from him again. My short lived romantic fantasy is practically crushed but it's OK, there is lots of room for more.

[lavenderdove]

OK, let's step back for a minute from all the assumptions.

 

he is first and above all a human being. Let's say it is a female friend who texts you and says, 'tired and sick of burning the candle at both ends...' what would be the normal response to a friend, or a brother or whomever? It would not be 'Zzzzz' it would be 'i'm sorry... what happened today to make you feel that way?' the 'Zzzzz' response could easily be taken to mean you are sleeping and don't care to talk to him, or you're bored and unsympathetic with him, or you don't want to talk to him. You are so busy trying to play it cool when he contacted you, that you gave him frostbite!

 

This is why communication via text is really a bad idea, especially in the early stages when you don't know each other that well and can't read tone or intention. So you may not be hearing from him because he thinks you are bored with him or not all that interested in communicating with him if you put him off with a 'Zzzzz' when he initiates contact and tries to initiate a dialog about how he is feeling.

 

If you don't want it to be games, then don't treat it like a game, and relate to him as a HUMAN BEING first rather than trying to 'calculate' your next move. I think he may at this point think you aren't too interested in him if your last communication when he spilled some feelings was to say 'Zzzzz' which really doesn't communicate anything at all other than a strong indifference to him and possibly a desire to be left alone.

 

I would be so puzzled if i received this 'Zzzzz' response from anyone. And I am sure he feels the same way, and possibly offended if he was looking to initiate a dialog and ask you on another date, and your first response to him when he initiated contact was 'Zzzzz' (i.e., don't bore me, leave me alone, go away, i'd rather sleep than talk to you.).

[Batya33]

Rapunzel I was wondering the same thing about the zzzz response although I do agree that that would not have been a deterrent to contacting you at least one more time. I would let him do his candy store thing and also keep in mind that it's easier to surf a dating site than make a phone call or have any kind of real communication while his kids are around. For example no matter how much I wanted to talk to a dear friend now I could not but I do have time to post here because my son is content to sit on my lap if I tell him what each word I am typing says, and if that time ends in 30 seconds or 3 minutes from now I won't feel that awkwardness/frustration about having to hang up the phone on a friend. I am sure you've had that same experience -time to surf but not to talk, etc. It doesn't hurt to reach out one more time with an excuse (an article you want to share related to something you talked about ,etc). I wouldn't raise anything about the last email or anything about where have you been etc but I don't think you'd do that anyway.

[lavenderdove]

btw, unemployed, smoking surgeon? Really? are you sure he is telling you the truth? How many surgeons are unemployed, and most are smart enough not to smoke because they have to go an entire day without leaving the operating room and couldn't go that long without a smoke (and know the effects on the body having seen smoker's lungs inside out).

 

I had a friend who met a guy who said he was a diplomat/courier who disappeared a lot on 'secret missions'. He turned out to be auto parts guys working in an auto body repair shop who liked to date women then disappear with their credit cards while they were sleeping. I would check this 'surgeon' out very carefully before you do anything with him because something there really doesn't make sense...

[Batya33]

btw, unemployed, smoking surgeon? Really? are you sure he is telling you the truth? How many surgeons are unemployed, and most are smart enough not to smoke because they have to go an entire day without leaving the operating room and couldn't go that long without a smoke (and know the effects of the body having seen smoker's lungs inside out).

 

I had a friend who met a guy who said he was a diplomat/courier who disappeared a lot on 'secret missions'. He turned out to be auto parts guys in an auto body repair shop who liked to date women then disappear with their credit cards while they were sleeping. I would check this 'surgeon' out very carefully before you do anything with him because it really doesn't make sense...

 

Reminds me of the SATC episode where Miranda lies and says she is a stewardess, he lies and says he is a doctor until one day when her finger is bleeding and he gets queasy he admits he works at a sporting goods store and she says she has to leave for her flight, bye bye. You never know...

[rapunzel]

Yes, I see your point. But we had just had a really fun date that ended up in a passionate embrace on my bed and clearly I'm very attracted to him....so if a "Zzzzzzz...." would turn him off THAT much, I don't know. He can choose to interpret that whatever way he wants. I meant it as commiserating, "yes, I am sleepy too". He did not say "but it was worth it staying up until 2:00AM..." He has never called me except to let me know he's driving down my street and is almost here. I actually called HIM on Saturday to firm up our plans as this ridiculous texting and emailing is just too much, back and forth, at our age. I had been at a funeral all day (he knew this) and when I got home at 6:00PM I called him to firm up our plans as they were vague. He had been at a movie with his kids and called me back a half hour later, and he had our first talk on the phone for more than 15 minutes.

 

He is an adult, he could respond to the "Zzzzz..." with a funny retort (we've had many funny bantering emails) or a "oh, is THAT the way you feel..." or any number of things...but he chose to just blow me off. Yes, in retrospect, perhaps it was not the best choice of words but if he is this insecure...I am starting to wonder if I'm asking for trouble anyway (his reaction to me talking to a male in a crowded bar).

 

So I could go out on a limb, send him an email today and face possible rejection...

[rapunzel]

One other thing I forgot to mention is that this guy does the "neg" thing with me a lot. You know, little digs, negative teasing comments. It doesn't bother me, it's part of our banter and I'm "woman" enough to not take it personally. So it was kind of within my rights to "neg" him back a little bit. His kids are eleven, twelve so it's not like they are 5 and running around..they are probably quietly playing computer games or doing homework or watching TV. He has done this before, where he leaves me hanging with the last email so I guess I feel he could "man up" and send a funny quick reply email like "hello rumpelstiltskin, are you still sleeping?" Or "clearly you are so very concerned about my physical health" or "hey my candle is still burning....." any number of opening jabs. He is very intelligent and quick witted and if my "Zzzzzzz...." made him run for the hills...I have to scratch my head.

[Ms Darcy]

How long has it been since you heard from him?

[rapunzel]

btw, unemployed, smoking surgeon? Really? are you sure he is telling you the truth? How many surgeons are unemployed, and most are smart enough not to smoke because they have to go an entire day without leaving the operating room and couldn't go that long without a smoke (and know the effects on the body having seen smoker's lungs inside out).

 

I had a friend who met a guy who said he was a diplomat/courier who disappeared a lot on 'secret missions'. He turned out to be auto parts guys working in an auto body repair shop who liked to date women then disappear with their credit cards while they were sleeping. I would check this 'surgeon' out very carefully before you do anything with him because something there really doesn't make sense...

 

I do think he is telling the truth about being a surgeon. I work in the medical field and have met and talked to many surgeons. Also, I had an injury several months ago to my arm and I ran into this guy at a party where he examined my arm and I could tell he knew what he was doing. Something happened in his life (I believe his mother got very ill) and for whatever reason, he stopped practicing. Maybe he operated on the wrong hand on a patient (he's a hand/orthopedic surgeon) and got his license removed. Who knows? Yes, it is very sketchy and the smoking thing, as I said, is a deal breaker for me.

[rapunzel]

How long has it been since you heard from him?

 

Our last date was one week ago, Saturday night. He emailed me Sunday night with the "Tired..." email. I wrote back Monday afternoon with my (apparently) poor choice of non-words. No reply.

[rapunzel]

Reminds me of the SATC episode where Miranda lies and says she is a stewardess, he lies and says he is a doctor until one day when her finger is bleeding and he gets queasy he admits he works at a sporting goods store and she says she has to leave for her flight, bye bye. You never know...

 

Ha. Just remembered. Years ago I met a guy at the gym who told me he was a doctor. We went on a date and I quickly figured out (since I work in the medical field) he was totally lying. I think he did work in a hospital but as a tech or an orderly or something well below MD status. It was kind of sad...

[lavenderdove]

If he is a surgeon, they usually have lots of history online including websites that either vouch they are certified and in good standing or have lost their license to malpractice etc. So i'd google him and if you find no history at all of medical records of him being a doctor, i'd take what he says with a grain of salt. and if his license has been revoked definitely steer clear of him. Doctors as a profession have the highest incidence of alcohol and drug abuse, so i'd do a little checking on any doctor who says he no longer practices to see why he doesn't.

 

Btw, my comments of the 'Zzzz' were not meant to be a criticism of you, just to point out that he may have taken that as a lack of interest or that you were bored by him. 'Zzzzz' as a joke is usually aimed to say you are really bored with someone and don't want to pay attention to it. The early stages of dating are touchy at best, and he can feel just as rejected as you might feel if he made an overture in your direction and feels you rejected him.

 

I also think it is pretty normal of guys with custody of school age children to really want to spend time with them when they do have visitation and focus all their attention on them. They usually have a lot of guilt feelings about 'leaving' the children along with the wife, and want to maximize the time spent with the children when they do have them.

 

But you do have to also trust your own feelings and if this guy is not meshing well with you or he irritates you or you are concerned that he is not dating you, i would first try to communicate with him to see what his interest level is and give him a chance to speak to that. And then if you don't like what you hear, move on. But i wouldn't just assume that he is madly dating others etc. and not interested in you. He's admitted to burning the candle at both ends and having family responsibilties to children where he will not involve new woman in their lives easily. So that will take a big chunk of his time and attention.

 

you are also on the dating websites busily checking him out and other people out, so you seem angry at him for that when you are doing it yourself. You may THINK you know what he is doing on those websites, but it could be the cookies and how they track users, so i wouldn't jump to conclusions based on that. I think the only way to really know whether he wants to casually date you and other people as well is to ask him what is his preferred dating style, and tell him your own and see if they match up or not.

 

you are in essence already 'spying' on him behind the scenes on those websites without a true knowledge of how those tracking cookies work. When anyone feels an overwhelming urge to spy on someone else, that usually indicates you have trust issues (that you need to work on related to yourself and not him), or else you feel really out of control and it makes you feel more in control/protected when the truth is you may be making false assumptions on what you see based on how that websites track usage via cookies that report people as online or having visited something based on merely being logged onto their computer.

 

So you may be shooting yourself in the foot with those assumptions and need to COMMUNICATE with him rather than try to spy on him behind the scenes. It is perfectly acceptable in the early stages of dating to talk about dating styles/expectations so that there is no conflict or misunderstanding about what that dating is about. So perhaps you need to have that conversation with him, and tell him you haven't heard from him much and wanted to know whether he just wants casual dates (and to date other people as well) or whether he is a person who believes in being exclusive while you are dating.

[lavenderdove]

btw, what are his 'negative' comments he makes about you? that could be more problematic based on what they are and how severe they are, or perhaps you are perceiving something negatively because you are nervous about the whole dating process?

[rapunzel]

I need to get out as I'm obsessing. Thank you for your response, lavenderdove. When I go into the website, it is under a different stealth profile with anonymous browsing and he does not know I'm checking on him....

 

I would rather NOT go on the dating site looking for others (I have never really multi-dated) but I feel like it's too soon to put all my eggs in his basket. I doubt it's all cookies...I do believe he is active on these dating sites. I'm not angry, but it does give me pause. Like after four dates and somewhat of a disappearance, he's not that interested.

 

Thanks for your advice but I really do think it's too soon for me to confront him with that type of question. I believe it's a romance killer and perhaps my "Zzzzz..." was also a romance killer although it certainly was not intended as such.

 

As I said I could go out on a limb and write to him with a light breezy tone, also he left his socks here so I could mention that and make a joke/reference to burning the candle...

 

Just read your edit. From what I can tell, almost everyone checks on their "dates" when doing online dating, it's hard to not resist doing this. I'm sure some don't but this is one problem with online dating....I do tend to have an obsessive side and yes, I should just be doing something else right now than spending the day on the computer.

 

The negative comments are regarding the fact that I rent and don't own property (I plan to buy, hopefully this year)...he has made pretty overt comments regarding this and where I am currently living. It's not a palace but it's in a great part of my very expensive city where I can walk everywhere. He lives more in a close suburb and owns (well, bank owns a lot of it) the house that he got in his divorce. And just occasional teasing comments...none of the specifics spring to mind. Oh and he corrected my grammar once....so occasionally I get it wrong. Harrumph!

[Ms Darcy]

Our last date was one week ago, Saturday night. He emailed me Sunday night with the "Tired..." email. I wrote back Monday afternoon with my (apparently) poor choice of non-words. No reply.

 

That's a long time. I suspect he's dating others.

[rapunzel]

I don't believe he is actively dating others but is HOPING to date others which is even worse. Still no response. Told the story to my friend's older boyfriend (late 50's) who is convinced he will get in touch with me. I don't necessarily agree. I'm depressed tonight but it is what it is. I will get over it fairly quickly, I think. Or at least, I hope...

[Ms Darcy]

You will get over it. If he's interested, he'll let you know. If he's still looking around, then you don't really want to invest too much into him.

[rapunzel]

I'm actually feeling really sad tonight. I thought at this point in my life i am a pretty good judge of character but it seems I've fooled myself. I know with dating one has to roll with the punches but at my age one has to wonder, "is it really worth it?" Is it worth feeling a rare connection with someone after four years to only have them run for the hills? I swear, I was cool as a cucumber. I'm used to being alone. I'm a performer, and I deal with all kinds of people all the time. I don't interrogate people nor make them feel uncomfortable. Seriously, I did not ask this guy ONE thing about himself - it all came up in conversation.

 

All I can think is that HE has some kind of preconceived ideas about who I am, because I am a performer, but the truth is I'm 50 years old and although some say I look 10 years younger, my main concern these days is making sure I get enough sleep. I am also a professional in the medical field with a full time job, although I am self employed. It's odd that he cannot handle the fact that I may go out to a bar in my city and greet a person I know in a friendly way, either male or female. His jealousy is HIS problem.

 

Just feeling like what is the point, if this is the kind of stuff I am going to have to deal with....I know not every guy will be this insecure but somehow I am taking this upon MYSELF. And it is obvious, this has nothing to do with ME.

[Ms Darcy]

I see two challenges in your thinking here. One, he can have a great character and have simply lost interest in you. For me, it's very different. And in dating, before a relationship, you really do have to remember that it is a voluntary process where either can leave. Two, if I were you, I wouldn't make presumptions about what he feels about you and/or thinks of your profession. Only he knows.

 

Just relax and look for other guys. Plenty of guys you aren't into remember? Who knows, he may turn up again.