Dating a younger man from online dating site

[rapunzel]

The date went well! We had a nice time. No "talk" occurred, we just had fun. We went out to a restaurant, sat at the bar, shared some drinks and appetizers and then went to hear some music at a cozy little bar nearby. I am really feeling good about him. At the bar I saw a male friend, a guy I've known through other friends for about 15 years, and we of course, greeted each other and talked/laughed. I introduced them but I noticed my date got a bit possessive and his body language changed, he seemed to be clearly marking his territory when I was chatting up my friend (who is very cute). This seemed interesting to me.

 

Anyway, he gets his kids back for a week so I doubt I'll see him next Saturday night but I feel pretty certain I'll see him again. If he disappeared or did not want to see me again, it would be surprising....there are no guarantees, of course.

[Nattersmatter]

Sounds like a decent date (tick!). Questions: Did he pay for all or most of the evening? (and that's not me being sexist, just traditional/natural as well as realistic based on the fact he was the inviter). Did he treat you like royalty or near-as-damnit?

 

The fact he felt so threatened that it made him insecure to the extent where he couldn't even hide it despite his apparent attempt (revealing nothing vocally) - which is entirely congruent with the previous rushing of intimacy - makes a mockery of what was obviously just an ACT at being chilled over Xmas. (Still, if you need to create a chilled impression, what better time to do so than when you have genuine distractions and demands on your plate, like starting a diet when staying at a healthfood afficionado's house?) So all in all, Houston, it would appear that we do indeed have a still-wounded soldier whom accordingly is still overly wary of getting prematurely rejected (or rejected full-stop) and would rather die than fully admit out in the open how keen on you he actually is lest that gave you the power to relax and fail to behave as sensitively and carefully as you'd otherwise do. I imagine he DID go fishing again - albeit half-heartedly - the minute he realised how quickly you were getting under his skin ("Warning-warning, danger-danger!!"), out of sheer panic at having too quickly re-entered 'dangerous' territory. (This is perfectly standard stuff, by the way.)

 

And what you ACTUALLY mean is, Because we've known each other for 15 years, WE HUGGED and were generally quite touchy-feely as well as verbally familiar. Ha-ha-ha, sneaky you - talk about opportunist? LOL However, you need to be careful about doing this. Or HOW you do it, I should say. If the guy is already skittish, despite you don't want to reassure him too much, neither do you want to exactly exacerbate his already present sense of precariousness whereby he panics and withdraws again; there's a fine balance to be struck, here. And by 'withdraw', I'm not talking about the fact he had things to do/people to see over Xmas. I'm talking about the fact that NOBODY is ever so overly busy that they can't make the odd 10-minute phonecall or send regular little 2-minute texts. *That* is the bit I'm referring to when I talk about his attempted faux impression.

 

...on which note: I'm sure you won't see him next Saturday if he has the kids (it takes time for divorcees to remember there's such a thing as babysitters or to feel confident enough about picking and using one and thereby 'abandoning' the already-unanchored kidlets). But, as I say, that *shouldn't* stop him from keeping in some alternative form of contact meantime. If it does stop him - which wouldn't gel with how reassured this date has left you (even aside from his bodily expressions of feeling threatened) and the prior bodily displays of keenness - I think it's very safe for you to presume it's just more of the same contrived endeavour to come accross more confident and chilled than he truly feels... in which case, no need for you to panic again.

 

Having his kids also shouldn't stop him from booking you during said calls or texts/emails for the following week (preferably for the Sat night and with decent period of notice), note. No man who is keen ENOUGH on a woman would wish to leave her open to being stolen by other men on the prowl (especially after him having seen proof that other guys are interested in you, so-called platonic friends or not). If it does, we're back to either suspecting he is multi-dating (but in the new context of an attempt to keep himself in check where you're concerned) or that he's going too far in his attempt to come accross chilled/confident, in which case you should either mirror his strategy (multidate) or simply refuse to let it get to you, safe in the knowledge that as time goes on he should learn to trust you more and more whereupon he'll drop all these silly actings out of his.

 

So! So far, so good. Watch that space...

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

No, we split it and took turns buying drinks. He spent more than I did. It's OK I don't expect him to pay for me on every date at this point and in fact, that would make me feel uncomfortable.

 

Bumping into my male friend at the bar was not at all opportunist (and there was no hugging nor any touchy-feelyness, there were a lot of people in this small crowded place and he was one row of people away). I knew a couple of other people in there, one woman and another much older guy. He did seem temporarily threatened by my friend, who is very gregarious and as I said, cute, and perhaps our familiarity set him off a bit. Interestingly, after seeing this male friend my date asked me "so, is that why you brought me here?" (e.g. to inadvertently make him feel insecure?) and certainly I did not bring him there with any intent. Certainly he's old enough to know that I'm old enough to have friends and acquaintances of BOTH sexes.

 

I replied "Um, I LIVE here (meaning this is my city, I hang out here, so naturally I know people). We had just left the place where we ate, and had no plan and this place was right down the street, a bar I like to frequent to hear music. He had never been so I suggested we go.

 

Anyway, I'm not going into overanalysis about that. He is most likely somewhat wounded by his divorce and other break ups. I agree with you, if he wants to see me, he will make a plan. He did email me last night but it was very brief and not a date invitation. I have not responded yet.

[Nattersmatter]

1. Why would it make you feel uncomfortable?

 

2. I didn't mean opportunistic regarding the actual bumping into, I meant with how you used that presented-to-you opportunity. If, however, you're saying Not regards the touchy-feeliness, and what with the guy's gregariousness alone not strictly speaking being ample justification, just the FACT of another man speaking to you (or possibly just another PERSON encroaching into your time together) got him acting all territorial, then what you've got here, missus, is pre-existing insecurity just looking for some excuse through which to discharge itself. To me, that strikes as entirely congruent with him not wanting to splash the cash - i.e. pre-guardedness and a loathness to make any premature *investment* until the signs say it's safe to. (That's a bit a*se-about-face but, there you have it - that's the rejection-over-shy for ya.) Also, ditto his suspecting that you contrived the scene (ridiculous!).

 

"Somewhat" wounded??? More like, "Paranoia, anyone?"!

 

Me, I wouldn't have been able to resist taking the piss and would have replied, Absolutely!...and as the Piece De Resistance, my five ex-husbands should be due in a minute...so... don't wander off anywhere, will ya?! ...although that's probably just me, LOL.

 

Oh, dearie, dearie me... Are you patient enough for someone still in this much of a state, Rapunzel?

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

1. Personal reasons. I am well employed, make good money and if it's clear he's not into paying for everything (perhaps he can't afford it, dating these days can be very expensive for men...he runs a house on his own and has two children, maybe he even pays alimony - I don't know). I am fine with paying my own way. If he was quite well off and insisted on paying for everything, I'd let him but that does not appear to be the case. He may have already wracked up hundreds if not thousands of dollars on dating the past several months, and apparently those dates have not resulted in a relationship, so it's possible he's stretched himself too thin. Quite understandable in the current economy.

 

Of course, it is also quite possible he is not that interested or invested yet which is why he is letting me pay for myself or at least contribute (he generally pays more).

 

2. Yup, people are complicated. This was the first sign of his insecurity. I don't expect smooth sailing with anyone at this age, with all of the baggage of life. I don't expect perfection NOR do I wish any man to expect it from ME. We get along really well when we are together, and he feels like an intellectual and certainly a physical match; an emotional match is yet to be determined. So to be continued. Yes, I am patient...that is one of the great things about aging. I won't chase him, I will just relax and if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, so be it. Since it would not be wise to put all of my eggs in his basket, so to speak, I will continue to be open to meeting and dating other men....

[Batya33]

Rapunzel I like your attitude and expectations and that you're having fun! I can't wait for the next chapter...

[rapunzel]

Thanks Batya, I'm trying to stay with my cool as a cucumber stance about this whole thing although occasionally my mind does take over...

[Batya33]

Of course it does but if nothing else this is great as a final bye bye to the other guy who occupied too much of your thoughts!

[Ms Darcy]

Yay to being open to other men. Agree with Batya - I was sooo tired of that other guy from years ago!

[rapunzel]

Ha ha...yes, that guy you were both so sick of hearing me moan about is still in my life through our shared avocation which I never gave up...and certainly the regular contact prolonged my needless suffering. I have come to realize he would not be a very good partner anyway...

 

Not sure how things are going to go with new guy, of course. Four dates down. I vacillate between feeling anxious and feeling light as a feather, smiling and floating on the breeze. Tra la la.....

 

Naturally I strive for the latter attitude. At this point, being single for three - well four really - years I have really gotten comfortable being alone and despite being 51, I feel like it's going to be OK if I'm alone or if I have a partner. Having a partner is more fun (with the right person) but I know I can do it on my own as well.

 

I haven't heard from him since a very brief email late Sunday night so today I'm going to spend some time looking for other attractive options. He snoozes, he loses.

[Batya33]

Hopefully you'll hear from him by tomorrow night if he wants to be a lucky guy (note I did not write or mean "get lucky").

[rapunzel]

^^^I hope so but I'm prepared for anything....

[Nattersmatter]

1. Personal reasons. I am well employed, make good money and if it's clear he's not into paying for everything (perhaps he can't afford it, dating these days can be very expensive for men...he runs a house on his own and has two children, maybe he even pays alimony - I don't know). I am fine with paying my own way. If he was quite well off and insisted on paying for everything, I'd let him but that does not appear to be the case. He may have already wracked up hundreds if not thousands of dollars on dating the past several months, and apparently those dates have not resulted in a relationship, so it's possible he's stretched himself too thin. Quite understandable in the current economy.

 

Fairenoughski on the one hand but notfairenoughski on the other: strictly-speaking, if he's unable to show off his Provider prowess (which is part of the wooing process regardless of whether kids ever end up featuring), even IN a period of relative "famine", he shouldn't really be putting himself on the dating market (yet). However, if you're fine with it - and I do mean GENUINELY FINE with it - that's your subjective preference and there's no problem.

 

Me, I tend *not* to automatically go Dutch. What I do is merely OFFER when the bill comes, a la, 'Do you want me to help with this?' (or, if I can tell he IS rich, use the word 'need'). Remember - wherever they can, men enjoy getting to strut their stuff and impress.. in which case, do be sure you're not forcing your part-payment onto him or it can backfire somewhat by communicating the fact either that [a] he somehow strikes you as incapable or you don't want to feel impressed because falling in love isn't actually your aim.

 

Of course, it is also quite possible he is not that interested or invested yet which is why he is letting me pay for myself or at least contribute (he generally pays more).

 

No, I think if he's consistently paying more than you, that indicates he is more interested/invested than not. Not sure... You'd have to tell me how this happens in terms of the mechanics/what's said whereby he gets to do that?

 

2. Yup, people are complicated. This was the first sign of his insecurity.

 

The first unmisinterpretable sign, you mean.

 

I don't expect smooth sailing with anyone at this age, with all of the baggage of life.

 

True.

 

I don't expect perfection NOR do I wish any man to expect it from ME. We get along really well when we are together, and he feels like an intellectual and certainly a physical match; an emotional match is yet to be determined. So to be continued. Yes, I am patient...that is one of the great things about aging. I won't chase him, I will just relax and if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, so be it. Since it would not be wise to put all of my eggs in his basket, so to speak, I will continue to be open to meeting and dating other men....

 

That's a much more philosophical attitude (tick!), not to mention an indication that you've gained enough evidence (albeit probably of the elusive/too difficult to articulate variety) to relax more. Don't touch that dial and things should work out just fine. But, as I said before - you don't actually have to date other men to stay self-confident and relaxed. You can simply 'ooze' the attitude of being All That in terms of there being many more men than just him considering you to be a prize is concerned. No matter what you look like, sound like, operate like, and assuming you don't for whatever reasons behave downright antisocially(!), there are, fact, loads of men on this planet whom you'll strike as the most all-round attractive and pleasing-to-be-with woman they've ever clapped eyes on. Never lose sight of that bio fact and you'll have the confidence to ENHANCE any natural allure.

 

For example, despite I think she's incredibly attractive, my husband thinks Angelina Jolie is, quote, UGH, and that I'm far more hot. Doesn't matter if I disagree, does it. Since he is the beholder, what he thinks goes. (Yeah, in your FACE, Jolie! LOL)

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

Ugh, having a down depressed day. Not feeling well and sleep deprived, went out last night and actually had a good time, got my mind off of him, danced with another guy who likes me but I'm not sure about him (unemployed, smokes!).

 

What a rollercoaster. I convince myself that I can handle this yet I suppose any new dating venture is a risk. This online dating stuff has changed the game...how can a man settle down with ONE woman when there are thousands of other possibilities at his fingertips?

 

My intuition is telling me to chalk this one up. Sad as it has been sooo long since I've been attracted to someone, it really did seem he dug me the other night, and it was so odd how jealous he got when I talked to my friend. I guess I need to think positively, that at least I *know* attraction to a man at this point in my life is possible. He sent me a very brief non-anything email on Sunday night, to which I replied just as briefly on Monday afternoon. Nothing since.

 

He's been active on two dating sites daily (and he can't tell that I am watching) since our last date on Saturday. I doubt he's politely replying to women with a "I'm seeing someone but thanks for your interest."

 

I don't know. Am I expecting too much too soon? My upbeat positive, light and breezy attitude from the other day has disappeared. I am going to nap and hopefully snap out of this dark place. I secretly had high hopes for this guy. :subdued:

[browneyedgirl36]

Hey R!

 

I think it's great that you're getting out there and looking; I have not had the mettle to brave online dating, and I don't know that I will ever have it. I applaud you for taking a chance and really putting yourself out there. It's all a risk -- risk of, at the very least, disappointment, and at worst, another broken heart, but it would be GREAT if you could find that special person, and it would definitely be worth the risk to be able to find that!

 

I think that, at this stage, you're wise to keep your options open, as he seems to be doing. I know how hard it is to take it one day at a time and not get worked up about it -- just to enjoy each date and not think about whether there will be another -- but that's what you need to do early on. I went on a few great dates with a guy a few months back, and he just disappeared on me. I was disappointed (partly because I was interested in getting to know him better and partly because I felt his choice to disappear without any explanation -- even just an "I'm not feeling it, sorry" -- was rather inconsiderate), but...I didn't take it personally. There are others out there, and if I'm open and put myself in situations to meet them, I'll find them. And so will you.

 

I know you had "high hopes," and I think it's good to have a positive attitude, but just try to temper your expectations with realism and remind yourself that it was a few dates, you didn't really know him all that well, and that if for whatever reasons it doesn't go anywhere, you'll be OK.

 

What did he say in his e-mail? And what was your response?

[Nattersmatter]

Ugh, having a down depressed day. Not feeling well and sleep deprived, went out last night and actually had a good time, got my mind off of him, danced with another guy who likes me but I'm not sure about him (unemployed, smokes!).

 

Temporarily umemployed whilst busting a gut to find other gainful employment is okay, but, otherwise - don't go there.. it's a thin-end-of-wedge symptom.

 

What a rollercoaster. I convince myself that I can handle this yet I suppose any new dating venture is a risk. This online dating stuff has changed the game...how can a man settle down with ONE woman when there are thousands of other possibilities at his fingertips?

 

It's called, You do it for me so much that other women don't even cross my mind. Maybe it's still that bit too soon for you and this is why you're attracting the male counterpart who - SEXIST ALERT, SEXIST ALERT!! (yet true) - don't handle it and keep it under control as well as us emotionally six-packed women?

 

My intuition is telling me to chalk this one up. Sad as it has been sooo long since I've been attracted to someone, it really did seem he dug me the other night, and it was so odd how jealous he got when I talked to my friend.

 

Perhaps that fact hit him full in the face later after he'd got home and had time to reflect? This is the thing with the Unready/Twice Shy - what would normally get taken as a yummy challenge to the healthy ego gets instead taken as something wholly off-putting.

 

However, you not contacting him is the best way to deal with his reaction if a knee-jerk is all it is. If you behave in such a way as re-sparks their Chase mode (like you 'backing away' as if you're about to suddenly turn around and speed off), they completely forget about their fear (can't fear loss if you haven't yet GOT despite you might have thought you had).

 

I guess I need to think positively, that at least I *know* attraction to a man at this point in my life is possible. He sent me a very brief non-anything email on Sunday night, to which I replied just as briefly on Monday afternoon. Nothing since.

 

Tip: if an email doesn't impress you, don't reply. If it hasn't worked, he'll have to try again with an upped ante, won't he? Same goes for the possibility that you simply didn't get it cos it got lost in the ether. Not Knowing is a killer. ;-) Also, it helps with the impression that you're ever so popliar and very-very busy.

 

He's been active on two dating sites daily (and he can't tell that I am watching) since our last date on Saturday.

 

OH. (Oh.)

 

I doubt he's politely replying to women with a "I'm seeing someone but thanks for your interest."

 

Not unless he's Adonis himself who therefore has hundreds of No Thank-You letters to write or he's a very slow typer, no.

 

I don't know. Am I expecting too much too soon?

 

I think you are but I think he had a definite hand in that (as already explained).

 

My upbeat positive, light and breezy attitude from the other day has disappeared.

 

Well, just keep it away from his senses.

 

I am going to nap and hopefully snap out of this dark place. I secretly had high hopes for this guy.

 

I think maybe you do need to start out with a basketful of eggs. That way, if one cracks or starts to smell bad you won't mind so much.

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

Thanks browneyedgirl, nice of you to weigh in! I agree with everything you said and thanks for sharing your story.

 

His email simply said "tired and running out of candle to burn at both ends." He/we had joked about this before in prior emails due to his traveling and our late nights both together and doing other thing. It wasn't said in a fun or flirty way, and there was no "but it was worth it". I responded with a "Zzzzzzz...." as I was at a loss of how to respond.

 

Huh. Now that I think about it, his email almost sounds cautionary. Hmmm.

 

I guess if we had four dates with no kissing or touching I would not care as much, certainly that deepened my feelings of attachment. I guess I'll have to head back to the nunnery for another 3 years. It's not safe out here in the big, bad online dating world. (joking). I am a big girl, I knew what I was doing and as I said, it was a risk. *sigh*. Maybe it's too soon to say "NEXT!" but that's how I'm feeling.

 

And if he does email me tonight or this weekend, do I wait 4-5 days to respond??? I don't want to appear too eager.

[rapunzel]

Thanks for your response, Nattermatters. Too late, I responded to his email the next day. I think it's rude to not respond at all, especially since we had just had a nice time together...despite his acting territorial and insecure at the bar. Admitted his post-date email seemed rather half-hearted....

 

Ah well, life is just a bowl of...(_____)?

[PaintWithLight]

You seem too willing to explain away or provide excuses for this guy's inconsistent behavior. I think you have decided to forge ahead no matter what the signs or indications on his part. You have set your cap for him and reality be ignored. He is clearly indicating that he does not see you as a serious relationship. He still wants to play the field.

[Nattersmatter]

Well, for all your conscious self-doubting, your instincts seem to be know what to do just fine! "Zzzzzzz..." was a perfect reply to that, especially for its double-entendre quality - i.e. it could be a gesture of empathising AND a reflection of how unimpressed you were both. Nice one!

 

He might just be a bit on the Socially Inept/Non-Tactful side, though. ? But, yeah, if you're going to have the energy to type 10 words, why not make them more impressive ones? It might not be cautionary, it might have been meant to pose as a SULK - for you not only proving interruption-worthy by another male but for having welcomed the interruption (how verray dare hyou!).

 

BUT - the action speaks loudest and he did act. So that contradicts disinterest per se as well as over-tiredness to an extent where it matters. After all, don't forget how easy and much more logical it would have been for him to have waited until morning and then apologised and explained he'd been too tired the night before, right? So this is how I think I can tell he's playing games.

 

I think he's still too over-sensitive and over-fearful and these fishing expeditions of his are less about interest wandering elsewhere and more about self-protection.

 

But anyway - whatever/whyever - just ignore it, it's his problem ...which at the moment, you're letting yourself be infected with. Keep out of his range for a while and you'll probably start to feel a lot more positive.

 

As for how quickly or slowly to respond: MIRROR, MIRROR, MIRROR. If action A gets result A and he doesn't like A because he wants Z, he'll have to try Z in order to get Z back, won't he. Lemon Entry, dear Watson.

 

(Who told you a nunnery was a place of chasity, anyway?? LOL)

 

Don't say Next. Say 'Another!'. If this guy is a wishy-washy and remains one, he'll at least provide you with a great "Before" photo against which to compare any other eggs, won't he. And if THAT'S all he's good for, that HIS fault, not yours.

 

xoxo

[rapunzel]

You seem too willing to explain away or provide excuses for this guy's inconsistent behavior. I think you have decided to forge ahead no matter what the signs or indications on his part. You have set your cap for him and reality be ignored. He is clearly indicating that he does not see you as a serious relationship. He still wants to play the field.

 

I guess you haven't read my later posts! I'm definitely (sadly) aware of the signs and indications...well aware of the reality and not forging ahead as I'm not going to pursue him and he's not exactly chomping at the bit to see me (although I know he has his kids right now). I just posted that my intuition is telling me to chalk this one up.

 

How do you explain his alpha male behavior when I saw a male friend I knew at a crowded bar?

[Nattersmatter]

[sticks hand up in the air, saying, OOH, ME-ME, I KNOW! LOL]

 

Because at the time he was there with you with all reassurance signals present, received and registered, and, more to the point, because the incident triggered his more primitive thus automatic (knee-jerk) behaviour which doesn't require any conscious thought. Conscious thought is this soldier's very problem, see.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Gorra go beddybyes now. Try not to worry. It really isn't worth the mental energy. Unless, of course [wiggles eyebrows suggestively] it provides a great excuse not to be getting on with things that you should be getting on with?... like more fully and deeply adapting to your new single lifestyle in all other areas???

 

xoxo

[Batya33]

Maybe I missed something but why did you respond with just a "zzzzzz" to his e-mail (I probably missed something).

[rapunzel]

I was basically "mirroring". He writes in his subject line: "Tired...." and then inside the email "running out of candle to burn at both ends". And that was it. I did not know what to say or even if I should respond. So since "Zzzzzz..." connotes sleeping it seemed like an appropriate response. The way I looked at it, I was basically commiserating with him.

 

It crossed my mind that he could have taken offense to my response but he seems to have a reasonably good sense of humor. This is why an occasional chat on the phone is so effective (and somehow, so elusive these days...)