KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 One of the reasons my ex broke up with me? He said I'm too independent. I left home aged 18 and have fended for myself since. I've also been told I'm too good-looking and intelligent - which men find intimidating. I'm not smug about any of these qualities. In fact I've got a somewhat low self esteem. I've even gone a far as acting dumb to increase my chances, but I couldn't keep it up for too long. If I were a man, I'd make a determined, unmistaken bee-line for the intelligent, good-looking and independent woman! A lot of single women I know are fun, totally gorgeous, clever and kind. What is it about a woman's beauty and intelligence that would intimidate a red-blooded male? Link to comment
hexaemeron Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You're not as easy to control. Link to comment
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Right - so men are looking for women to control? Link to comment
CMS Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I find those qualities to be extremely attractive. Your boyfriend is probably just does not like the fact that you are smarter and hotter than him. Link to comment
-Sanguine- Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 My guess would be that it puts a lot of pressure on a man to be as smart, caring and independent as the woman he is with. Maybe if he has low self esteem he feels he can't live up to you. I am not entirely sure. But if that is the case, I would hope that a man would want to be better because of an independent, smart, good looking woman - not leave her. Link to comment
FathomFear Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The more apt question would be "Is anyone, regardless of gender, who is put off be attractive/intelligent/independent people worth my time?" I mean, some people do suffer from this. This thread is a good example of the phenomenon: Link to comment
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 I find those qualities to be extremely attractive. Your boyfriend is probably just does not like the fact that you are smarter and hotter than him. Nice one, cmswfty! Shame you live in Washington DC Link to comment
Ms Darcy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 One of the reasons my ex broke up with me? He said I'm too independent. I left home aged 18 and have fended for myself since. I've also been told I'm too good-looking and intelligent - which men find intimidating. I'm not smug about any of these qualities. In fact I've got a somewhat low self esteem. I've even gone a far as acting dumb to increase my chances, but I couldn't keep it up for too long. If I were a man, I'd make a determined, unmistaken bee-line for the intelligent, good-looking and independent woman! A lot of single women I know are fun, totally gorgeous, clever and kind. What is it about a woman's beauty and intelligence that would intimidate a red-blooded male? Two thoughts. (Healthy) men want women who know how to be interdependent. That means you can be independent but you also make him feel like you really appreciate and value him for what he brings to your life. If you don't "need" him in some aspect, why are you together. That is the growth of interdependence that you would need in a marriage. Second, men want confident women. A single man can get pretty women who are smart. But if you know how to make him feel (like he's lucky to have you because you are confident and you appreciate him), he is more likely to fall all over you. My friends who have always been successful with men are: sexually and emotionally confident, smart, pretty, and treat their men very well. Link to comment
misssmithviii Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think hex hit it right on... The number one adjective men would use to describe me as was "intimidating" and whenever I told them to elaborate they just said that being independent, intelligent and attractive makes me (and you) able to have our pick of the bunch, actually hold up an intelligent argument - and that's uncomfortable for some men/women. The same reason why insecure girls feel intimidated by good-looking men (especially the thought of being with them) - insecure men feel intimidated by good-looking women. I would try and "speak stupid", even act airy to be more attractive but I quickly started annoying myself >. I found that when the right guy came along, he valued and admired my traits, and grew even more confident in himself when I was attracted to him too - rather than shying away. Spotting confident, compatible men is easy - they don't have to act like they're confident. Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 "intimidating" can indeed mean "someone I can't control/look down on." But it can also mean "she's out of my league, and even if I put a ton of effort into it and manage to hold on to her for a while, she'll eventually look for something better. There's no point in trying." Link to comment
JerkBrokeMe Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 off topic but, katastrophy wife fan? If so, I already like you. I Link to comment
Eocsor Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Well if you are as good looking and intelligent as you say I don't think any man would have a problem with it. As long as your looks and intelligence doesn't come pared with arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Link to comment
november1 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two thoughts. (Healthy) men want women who know how to be interdependent. That means you can be independent but you also make him feel like you really appreciate and value him for what he brings to your life. If you don't "need" him in some aspect, why are you together. That is the growth of interdependence that you would need in a marriage. Second, men want confident women. A single man can get pretty women who are smart. But if you know how to make him feel (like he's lucky to have you because you are confident and you appreciate him), he is more likely to fall all over you. My friends who have always been successful with men are: sexually and emotionally confident, smart, pretty, and treat their men very well. I think this is spot on. My current girlfriend is attractive, very independent, and intelligent. However, I'm currently not very satisfied with the relationship due to sexual incompatibility. In Ms. Darcy's list around 'her friends being successful', I'd say my girlfriend is not very sexually confident and doesn't treat me all that well when it comes to interdependence. She doesn't make me feel needed/appreciated very often. Her confidence and independence may be too strong since I often feel physically/emotionally neglected despite what I feel is a balanced level of support coming from me. I'm sexually and emotionally confident, good looking, intelligent, very financially successful, and treat the woman in my life very well. She's younger and didn't have long-term relationship experience before me, so I think she doesn't appreciate what she has! Link to comment
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 off topic but, katastrophy wife fan? If so, I already like you. I Thanks, JBM! Wife fan...what does that mean? Link to comment
PrettyGood Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You are not right Men ADORE independent women (not too much of course), but they also like to have their word to be last in the conversation (even if they're not always right). When you argue a lot (even if you're right) you damage their male ego, you're not stroking his self-esteem and he feels that it's just too hard to be with person who's always right and who wants to be too much independent from him. In time you just loose his interest in a sexual way, because most men imagine that their girlfriend should be a feminine one (by their behaviour), but not too much dependent on them. So you must find that perfect middle and it's hard to do Be yourself, but understand that some times you SHOULD give their word to be last (even if they're wrong). And the biggest mistake - don't try to win a fight for a small problems. Let him win. It is not so much important for you to be on the TOP everywhere. Link to comment
Eocsor Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 WOW. This post and a few others today make me think we're back in the 40's or 50's when men ruled the roost and women were subservient housewives. I for one like strong independent women with a backbone and an opinion, as long as they aren't arrogant or rude. I need to feel someone is my equal in every way. Heck even if they are superior in some ways who cares. Do they love me, respect me and want to be with me? Do they rock my world in the bedroom? Are they just fun to be around. Sign me up. I want one. Link to comment
april15 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I find intelligent, independent women attractive. When a woman is constantly telling me she is independent and does not need me, that is not attractive. Women like to be told they're beautiful. Men like to be told they're needed. Link to comment
Marah Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think as the times continue to change, dependent, vapid women will stop being what is considered most sexy. Link to comment
PrettyGood Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm sorry, I didn't want to say she need to be submissive, but I just adviced to be kind for him and show her appreciation for what he does with her. Not to be too arrogant. To be independent and to have high goals is one thing, but to be emotionally unavailable for person is another thing. She needs not to forget that without her accomplishments she also had a loving man next to her where she needs to be his lovely woman. Link to comment
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think as the times continue to change, dependent, vapid women will stop being what is considered most sexy. I agree with this! I recently read an article about modern men being de-masculinized whilst modern women get more independent and stronger. I'm all for femininity and have always let my men [when I've had one] feel like a MAN without acting all needy. I fear that if indeed men are gradually getting de-masculinized their fear of strong, independent women - once looked upon as the strong link needed to pass on genetics/offspring - will increase! I'd like to think that this is not the case, and that the majority of strong, secure men still prefer strong intelligent women. My ex was insecure and controlling, he told me so himself. So any of these traits would have bothered him regardleess. Link to comment
GrowingIn Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 "intimidating" can indeed mean "someone I can't control/look down on." But it can also mean "she's out of my league, and even if I put a ton of effort into it and manage to hold on to her for a while, she'll eventually look for something better. There's no point in trying." This part. This was basically my ex. I love that she was independent, smart, could take care of herself. It made me ambitious and wanted to be a better guy for her. But I was never given the chance. She moved on quickly because I didn't raise up to the occasion fast enough. On top of that she maintained this "I'm better than you" attitude, even though she wasn't saying it, I could sense it. It made me very depressed, and no matter what I would do it just wasn't good enough, even though I had parts that she didn't. It's like unless I could do everything she could AND my parts, I wasn't going to get her respect. Every time I would do something that I considered a small accomplishment I got no encouragement. No compliments. And most importantly no compromises. It's as if because I was behind, I didn't earn the act of compromising from her. On top of that if I had the opportunity to get ahead, I could sense envy on her part. The interesting thing is I would have NEVER acted like that had the roles been reversed. I would have stuck around and helped her as long as it took to become independent and would have never made her feel in any way shape or form impotent for not getting there quick enough or for depending on me or others. I love strong independent women to death, but some independent women, I care not what they say, do not know how to make a man feel like a man and some DO get a kick out of feeling on top. I would love anything more than to be able to share control but what I noticed, at least with the ones I have met, was that when it came time to making decisions, if I had the reigns I would make a decision based on what benefited everyone that was involved. I looked for win/win, and if it came down to it and that was not possible, I would put her needs before my own. When I left that control into her hands, she made decisions that was beneficial to herself and did not take my needs or wants into consideration. Even after bringing that up to her attention, she put up a fight. Totally selfish. Did I become controlling and try to force my way on her? Absolutely! Why? That's exactly why. I knew, showed and proved I found a solution hat was in everyone's best interest. Of course I'm not going to sit there and be ok with you wanting to do something that only works out for YOU! Please do what I do, and make decisions in everyone's best interest and I PROMISE I will NOT get in your way. I will be glad to kiss your hand, like the wonderful woman you are for doing this! Fact is YOU DON'T! I wold love nothing more than to find a woman to share control with, and pass the ball back and forth. But so far my experience has taught me is that women are selfish creatures who do not give it back once they have it and usually everything goes down the drain when I stop fighting for it and leave it in their hands. And honestly I'm just sick of the fight and give up when I notice that selfishness. To give you an example: She needed my help to get a job. Went with her. Found it through friends. Even went on to the job interview with her. Held her hand all the way through. TWICE. When my turn came, and I asked for help with a preparing for a test for my job that I was attempting to get...not only did I have to beg, but then she became tired quickly, and went to sleep. "Thanks for helping me get on my feet baby, but now that I have a job, I'm too tired to return the favor. Be a man and handle it. Good luck. Love ya". Yeah screw you too! PS: And all this independence of hers simply meant she got to the point where she stopped asking me for help, because either she no longer needed what I had to offer or she found others to help her. Which made me feel even more like crap. Truth is, even independent women depend on others. They have just brainwashed themselves that they don't. Her 130lb frame still can't lift a couch by herself. So yeah she doesn't need her man to help her move it, but she still needed either to pay someone or get help from someone else. She instead chose to depend on strangers. In her mind she's independent, in my mind, she's still the same. Honestly I find independent women just don't depend on their significant other as much, and choose to diversify their support structure. Smart, but don't fool yourselves: EVERYONE depends on somebody in someway. Link to comment
Lonewing Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 One of the reasons my ex broke up with me? He said I'm too independent. I left home aged 18 and have fended for myself since. I've also been told I'm too good-looking and intelligent - which men find intimidating. I'm not smug about any of these qualities. In fact I've got a somewhat low self esteem. I've even gone a far as acting dumb to increase my chances, but I couldn't keep it up for too long. If I were a man, I'd make a determined, unmistaken bee-line for the intelligent, good-looking and independent woman! A lot of single women I know are fun, totally gorgeous, clever and kind. What is it about a woman's beauty and intelligence that would intimidate a red-blooded male? Extremely attractive. However, I often find that such women are not couple-minded. And there's usually something in there that turns me off real quick - such as a lack of emotional availability. Or if you're gone all the time. Or if you spend the majority of the time I see you getting ready to go to your next date. yes, you are intimidating. Sef depricating is one such quality that will lead to me avoid a girl. Too vain is an issue as well. And Arrogance, well, I can understand why women don't want a man who's arrogant, same goes for us. So you have to find a balance and remove that low self esteem! If you don't like yourself,tell me why I should like you, much less find you so enamorating that I want to be with you? And another thing about gorgeous girls - looks don't always translate into performance. Which means you may look great, but if you are a "just lay there and take it" kind of girl when it comes to matters like sex, well...sorry, but I'm not interested. And if you're not very thoughtful with your day to day connection, as in, you don't say hi and you don't touch me [nonsexual] and you don't at least hold me once in a while, or let me hold you, well, again, I'm not interested. There's more to you than what you've said - you'll just have to do better the next time around. Link to comment
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Two thoughts. (Healthy) men want women who know how to be interdependent. That means you can be independent but you also make him feel like you really appreciate and value him for what he brings to your life. If you don't "need" him in some aspect, why are you together. That is the growth of interdependence that you would need in a marriage. Second, men want confident women. A single man can get pretty women who are smart. But if you know how to make him feel (like he's lucky to have you because you are confident and you appreciate him), he is more likely to fall all over you. My friends who have always been successful with men are: sexually and emotionally confident, smart, pretty, and treat their men very well. ^^ This is it. I don't find good looks and intelligence intimidating. I LOVE those qualities in a woman. Now, with the independent thing, if you're talking about having your own career and financial independence, a good friendship base and treasured personal activities, including creative outlets, hobbies, sports, travel and all the other things most of us enjoy as part of a happy life, those are things I love as well. But I've found the term "independent" is subject to a wide range of interpretations. A lot of these variations are not what I'm looking for in a partner. Some even have very nasty names associated with them. I've seen controlling and abusive women call themselves independent. I've seen workaholic women call themselves independent. I've seen commitment phobes call themselves independent. I've seen arrogant narcissists call themselves independent. I've seen women with emotional walls the size of China call themselves independent. You know some of these names. One of them rhymes with ditch. Others are even worse. As Ms Darcy said, in a healthy relationship there has to be some feeling of need for each other. And no, I'm not talking about "needy." The healthy mode is interdependent. Men love women who are confident and self supporting, but there has to be an underlying draw for each other. Many of the independent women I've encountered treat their relationships much like any other business deal. Openness? Sensitivity? Compassion? Vulnerability? Nope, not gonna happen. That just doesn't work for me. If you really are all those other things, your version of "independence" is the avenue I would explore. Link to comment
OrangeSlice Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I prefer women that are intelligent and independent. There are a lot of guys that want a dumb chick that they can control, these guys are call idiots and the world is better off if they just left to some remote island and never came back. Link to comment
Day_Walker Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 For a certain segment of the male population, they are not going to get along with an intelligent, attractive and independent woman. Some men want a woman that depends on them (for a number of reasons in addition to being able to controlling them). Personally, I would give little credence to what an ex says, each person has their own reasons why a relationship ends. Topics like this just bring up too general of a response, because I have heard countless people call themselves (or others have called them) intelligent and I would not agree. The same thing with attractiveness. Im having a hard time with you claiming to be independent yet insecure. Those two dont seem to go together. Link to comment
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