Women...men in their 40's, never engaged, married, no kids, etc.

[Batya33]

I admit that if I encountered a 40 plus man who had never had an LTR I would have been suspicious, seen it as a red flag. I don't see living together as necessarily a sign of commitment/ability to commit- many people do so as much for convenience/financial reasons as a desire to commit. My husband and I had been engaged and in LTRs before we got back together when we were in our late 30s. I liked that neither of us had been married before or lived with anyone -it's challenging but fun to be first timers together in our 40s!

[Pegasus]

Woman deeply in love will overlook all mentioned "obstacles" and even a lot more. Just take a look at other sections on this board under "relationships"....

[bostonbruins44]

This is why I'am the way I'am with all my posts. cause even if a guy is 20-30 years and has not had a girlfriend its just not good on his part.

If the prospective woman is going to hold his inexperience against the guy [which may be due to factors beyond his control[social anxiety] why would he want to date her anyway? She may be dismissing a great guy who has worked through his issues.Would he be a better catch if he had a string of horrible relationships under his belt? Or a string of one night stands?

[Batya33]

If the prospective woman is going to hold his inexperience against the guy [which may be due to factors beyond his control[social anxiety] why would he want to date her anyway? She may be dismissing a great guy who has worked through his issues.Would he be a better catch if he had a string of horrible relationships under his belt? Or a string of one night stands?

 

That would be an issue as well. Obviously it's an individual thing - I will say that the "hands on" experience of being in a healthy adult romantic relationship trumps working on oneself outside being in a healthy relationship -both are important but I'd find it hard to discern how a person got his act together enough to be in a healthy adult romantic relationship without having actually experienced one and reached his 40s.

[bostonbruins44]

That would be an issue as well. Obviously it's an individual thing - I will say that the "hands on" experience of being in a healthy adult romantic relationship trumps working on oneself outside being in a healthy relationship -both are important but I'd find it hard to discern how a person got his act together enough to be in a healthy adult romantic relationship without having actually experienced one and reached his 40s.

Perhaps it depends on the issues one had to overcome.Would you prefer to date a 30 year old man who never has been in a relationship who had to overcome a high level of social anxiety or a 30 year old man who has had a string of bad relationships due to say his alcoholism but he is now completely sober ?Theoretically neither man will have been in a healthy relationship .

[Batya33]

Perhaps it depends on the issues one had to overcome.Would you prefer to date a 30 year old man who never has been in a relationship who had to overcome a high level of social anxiety or a 30 year old man who has had a string of bad relationships due to say his alcoholism but he is now completely sober ?Theoretically neither man will have been in a healthy relationship .

 

I would have concerns about both. As far as the former I would want to know on a practical level about his current social skills and how and in what contexts he practied them. I also think it's important to have a history of close relationships with people -romantic or platonic - before getting into a serious relationship.

[bostonbruins44]

I would have concerns about both. As far as the former I would want to know on a practical level about his current social skills and how and in what contexts he practied them. I also think it's important to have a history of close relationships with people -romantic or platonic - before getting into a serious relationship.

 

As you said it is an individual thing ,luckily for many on this board who have never been in relationships there will hopefully be someone who would overlook a lack of expereince and not consider it a dealbreaker .So I don't think those in that plight are ultimately doomed.To each his own.

[Fudgie]

I do think it is highly individual. No one is really "doomed" because I've found for every "dealbreaker" out there, there is always someone who doesn't consider it a big deal.

 

If a man, in his 40s, had ZERO relationships, I would take that as a red flag. Just because I do doesn't mean that he's "doomed", it just means I tread more carefully. Heck, I'm sure I have my own red flags to certain guys. It's not a horrible thing in itself, you just need to be careful. I would be extremely weary, and would likely not even go after, a guy who has had a string of very bad relationships. As in, lots of disrespect and fighting.

[Batya33]

As you said it is an individual thing ,luckily for many on this board who have never been in relationships there will hopefully be someone who would overlook a lack of expereince and not consider it a dealbreaker .So I don't think those in that plight are ultimately doomed.To each his own.

 

What I wrote was it would depend. And for some (many?) it's not a plight but active choices they have made that impeded them from connecting with people.

[BriarRose]

I would never judge a man for this. Everyone is different. Maybe he had bad luck, maybe he got hurt, maybe he couldn't have kids, maybe he had a serious illness, maybe he never found the right woman, the list is endless.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I would never judge a man for this. Everyone is different. Maybe he had bad luck, maybe he got hurt, maybe he couldn't have kids, maybe he had a serious illness, maybe he never found the right woman, the list is endless.

 

Exactly. All you have to do is look around at all the people who are married, have been married, have had many relationships or just one or two relationships....many of them are majorly messed up in one way or another. Someone who never had a long-term relationship may actually have less wrong with them than someone who has been married or who has had one or more long-term relationships. You can't base a person's fitness for interacting with others in a relationship simply on whether or not they had relationship experience. There are many factors which can result in someone never having had the opportunity to be in a long-term relationship. Seeing "red flags" simply because someone is older and hasn't had a long term relationship is akin to how women were viewed back in previous centuries if they were 25 and not married..they were considered spinsters and beyond hope. Relationship and marital status is not a very good indicator of someone's fitness for a relationship and anyone who judges someone's fitness for a relationship based on that criteria is being rather naive about what makes people tick and what makes someone truly relationship material.

[Batya33]

I disagree. Particularly given what I've learned about myself in the last 2 years being married -and living with someone for the first time- as well as what I learned from my serious relationships, even (maybe especially!) the ones that dragged on too long or were a mistake - I was able to behave in a healthier way in a relationship and knew a lot more about myself in the context of relationships. I personally needed the hands-on experiences and it's the same for most people I know. If the person had reached 40 and didn't want a serious relationship, I'd be concerned and need to know "why now?", and if he had tried to have a serious LTR and hadn't been able to I'd want to know why because it's quite unusual.

Obviously there are other factors -- it's not the only one. It also has to do with what I was looking for specifically -someone who was ready to get married and start a family within a few years -and if he was 40 and hadn't even wanted a serious relationship until right before he met me -let's say -I'd be very concerned about that mindset and would need to know more. By contrast, if he was 40 and had had one or more serious LTRs I would ask at some point why they ended but it would concern me less to be with a person who had taken the chance on love so to speak and been willing to be in a serious relationship. Other people might not be looking for marriage/family or might have issues of jealousy where there are exes so they might prefer to be someone's first at any age. To each her own.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It is great that you learned a lot about yourself by experiencing relationships...however, that is not true for a great many people. Many people keep repeating the same mistakes over and over in their relationships. Many people have relationships and don't even know how to conduct themselves in one. I know plenty of people who are horrible partners to the one they married..and yet the marriage doesn't split up. Experience doesn't necessarily make a person wise...and inexperience doesn't necessarily make a person unknowing. A wise person doesn't necessarily have to experience something to understand it...they can learn very well by seeing the world around them. That is true in anything in life, not just relationships. Also, just because a person has been in relationships, doesn't actually mean they have taken a chance on love. Many people get into relationships not for love but for other reasons. Many people in relationships and marriages have never even experienced loving someone or, for that matter, being loved by someone. Many people who have never been in long-term relationships have indeed loved..but that love may not have been reciprocated. Making judgements about someone who has never had a long-term relationship, is just as naive as making judgements about someone who has been divorced. It is only when you get to really understand the person can you understand why their situation is the way it is...and asking them when you first start dating them won't give you much information because it is completely out of context....case in point, all the divorced people who claim their partner cheated on them and their partner was horrible when really they themselves were the cheater and the horrible person...they end up repeating the same pattern with the new person. Only time spent with that person will give you their true character and will help you understand what happened..asking loaded questions from the get-go will not give you the real picture.

[bostonbruins44]

'' Making judgements about someone who has never had a long term relationship ,is just as naive as making judgements about someone who has been divorced.It is only when you get to really understand the person can you understand why their situation is the way it is''.........I agree ,nicely said .

[Batya33]

All interesting but not my point -particularly not about the loaded questions -I actually was very good at learning what I needed to know about someone without asking any pointed questions. What we differ on is mindset- I had in general a positive attitude about people and relationships - not naive, but certainly not the negativity you express in this post and in others I have read from you. Had I had your mindset I wouldn't have cared either about someone's relationship history or lack thereof. And I know I personally would not have bothered to even try to be in a relationship if I felt as you did about 'many" people. I think that's why we come to such vastly different conclusions.

 

I will say -fair or not -most people I know do factor in the person's past relationships and why they ended -and whether there were any relationships. I realize the "fair" part is the point of contention but since there are several aspects of dating that aren't fair in one way or another and it requires an element of taking the plunge and hoping for the best, I chose to view as important, all else equal, whether an adult had chosen to be involved in serious relationships, and if not, why. Especially if he also didn't have close relationships with friends -another potential red flag.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

LOL...I guess we do have completely different backgrounds, mindsets, experiences, people we have encountered in life and relationships we have seen.....and will have to agree to disagree.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I agree with batya, I'll be curious as to why someone in their 40s never had a serious relationship. Marriage, kids and engagement don't matter to me.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree with batya, I'll be curious as to why someone in their 40s never had a serious relationship. Marriage, kids and engagement don't matter to me.

 

Curious is one thing...I would be curious about why someone's engagement broke off, why their marriage ended, why they lived with someone but didn't get married to that person etc....however, there is a big difference between being curious and assuming that there is a red flag waving when you really don't know anything about what makes that person tick. People are naturally curious about others..but until you know them better you can't make a fair assessment of why their situations turned out the way they did.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Curious is one thing...I would be curious about why someone's engagement broke off, why their marriage ended, why they lived with someone but didn't get married to that person etc....however, there is a big difference between being curious and assuming that there is a red flag waving when you really don't know anything about what makes that person tick. People are naturally curious about others..but until you know them better you can't make a fair assessment of why their situations turned out the way they did.

 

I don't think Batya meant to judge people before getting to know them. I think she just meant that these are the things that should be talked about to make sure they are not red flags, which I agree with. ALL of us have things about us that might seem red flags to other people at the surface level. But if they get to know us and our reasons, they might not seem as bad anymore.

[friendsoulmate]

I am dating one. He was 40 when we met, and turning 41 that year. There are advantages and disadvantages. And not all men in their 40s who have never done those things are the same. Some have had a revolving door of girlfriends but never committed and got lucky in the contraceptive department and some were really immersed in work or hobbies and just never met the one/had few girlfriends. So its not really a fair and equal question. Also, i don't think guys who had been engaged, etc, necessarily have baggage just because they were.

 

Yes. I agree. Thank you. I appreciate a woman like you, who does not discriminate against these men, who are like myself. I, myself, am a 41-year-old, virgin Christian man. I do not believe I have any of these red flags women should fear. I do not fear marriage and commitment. There is nothing mentally wrong with me, because I am sexually inexperienced. I do not have social anxiety around women, who are like myself. I do feel anxious and uncomfortable around single mothers who are interested in dating me, because these women are not like myself. My biggest problem with meeting new women is a shortage of social activities for meeting women like myself, and therefore, the lack of creating a new social network. I believe this is one of the reasons link removed got started. I had trouble finding these social activities in my late 20's and 30's, so this problem I have now, is the same problem I had when I was younger. Because I'm 41, I feel more pressured to work harder at finding these clubs or social groups, I could be interested in. I think shygal2008 should ask these women at work, who think I am a red flag, how they got their boyfriend and/or husband. I'm sure she would get some offensive looks and responses from these women, because they think that information is private and none-of-your-business. I have created a post before at this forum asking people how they got their boyfriend or girlfriend, and the response was very low. I was very surprised at the low response, because when I browse through the various topics at this forum--from Finding Love and Soulmate, to Marriage, to Divorce, and especially Sex and Romance, people here are more than willing to open-up about their personal lives and talk explicitly about it, but when it comes to how I got my girlfriend or boyfriend--that's private! That question goes too far, and is off-limits, and I can't read about it.

[Batya33]

I wouldn't have an issue with a man who chose to wait to have sex because of religion. For me personally I would question Friendsoulmate's desire to be in a relationship because the reason of "shortage of social activities" just wouldn't ring true for me since I had to work extremely hard to be out there meeting people in my 20s and 30s (all through my 30s) but because the goal was so important to me, I did it. Of course if F-soulmate limits his options to religious women who waited for marriage that's totally cool and understandable but of course a man with those values would not have been a good match for me since I am not religious. I don't think it's discriminatory at all to have preferences in the type of person someone dates- a far different story if it's choosing who to work with or associate with -- the only time it's discriminatory is if the reasons for the preference are, let's say, racist or similar. Otherwise they're just preferences. I preferred all else equal to date someone who had had previous long term relationships and I had more concerns about a man in his 40s who had had none than I did about a man in his 40s who had had LTRs that didn't work out. That's just me and if that's "judgmental" so be it.

 

I originally met my husband at work. He wouldn't be my husband now if we hadn't both matured and evolved over the years and part of that was due to the serious relationships we were involved in other than with each other. I know of many similar examples where the couple, if they met in their 30s or beyond, were ready to get married because of what they learned through past relationships (as well as through other facets of life of course).

[BriarRose]

I agree with Crazyaboutdogs. It is interesting that people would be more interested in why someone never settled down vs. why their relationships ended. I never married, and I'm not a commitment phobe, I'm a wonderful gf. I am a bit shy, never met the right person (or they didn't feel I was the right one, either), and had a serious illness and didn't date for a long time. I wonder how many men would run from me, saying there is something wrong with me because I never had a "serious" relationship. What constitutes that, anyways?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree with Crazyaboutdogs. It is interesting that people would be more interested in why someone never settled down vs. why their relationships ended. I never married, and I'm not a commitment phobe, I'm a wonderful gf. I am a bit shy, never met the right person (or they didn't feel I was the right one, either), and had a serious illness and didn't date for a long time. I wonder how many men would run from me, saying there is something wrong with me because I never had a "serious" relationship. What constitutes that, anyways?

 

It is the same kind of mentality that people have for anyone that doesn't fit what society deems as "normal". They try to package these people into narrow little boxes. For example...notice on this forum how people make the assumption that there is either something totally wrong with older virgins or they are religious. There is no room for anything in between in people's minds. No other possible reason for this to be so...either they are socially inept or they are religious. Someone who doesn't fit what is considered the current norms of society are judged in negative way and looked upon as freaks. Remember that in past generations the ones who were looked at in a negative light were the ones who had sex and were not married, the ones who had children out of wedlock, the ones who "shacked up" (a very derogatory term), the ones who got divorced, the women who were not married by age 22. Now look at today's norms and who gets ridiculed and judged...the ones who wait for marriage before having sex, the ones who think it is better to be married before having children, the ones who disagree with living together first before contemplating marriage, the ones who stay in bad marriages rather than get divorced, the ones who choose to get married at age 20-22. In other words, what is considered freakish and questionable behaviour by the masses is behaviour and beliefs which are different from whatever the masses are doing in any particular time period.

 

When a person really loves someone, they will get to know the person and not make assumptions just because that person didn't follow society's current norms. Next time a date makes comments showing he is judging you for never being married, you should tell him that you don't pre-judge people for their failed marriages and therefore you expect not to be pre-judged about not having been married before.

[Batya33]

I agree with Crazyaboutdogs. It is interesting that people would be more interested in why someone never settled down vs. why their relationships ended. I never married, and I'm not a commitment phobe, I'm a wonderful gf. I am a bit shy, never met the right person (or they didn't feel I was the right one, either), and had a serious illness and didn't date for a long time. I wonder how many men would run from me, saying there is something wrong with me because I never had a "serious" relationship. What constitutes that, anyways?

 

For me it wasn't about marriage or living together -it was whether they'd had healthy, long term relatonships and equally important to me whether they had close friends. I was asked several times why no one had "snapped me up yet"- I loved the (inaccurate)assumption that I hadn't had the opportunity to get married. Obviously if someone told me he'd had a serious illness for many years that impeded him from dating that would be a factor!

[BriarRose]

For me it wasn't about marriage or living together -it was whether they'd had healthy, long term relatonships and equally important to me whether they had close friends. I was asked several times why no one had "snapped me up yet"- I loved the (inaccurate)assumption that I hadn't had the opportunity to get married. Obviously if someone told me he'd had a serious illness for many years that impeded him from dating that would be a factor!

 

To each her own, I guess. Whether or not a man had close friends just wouldn't matter to me. Heck, I don't really have close friends. I find it increasingly harder to make good friends as I get older, and the ones I had from my youth have gone on and have new lives with their husbands and children and don't really seem to want to spend time with their "single" friend anymore. I imagine it's hard for single men my age, too.