My long-distance marriage

[ClarenceRutherford]

Okay, am planning to talk with her more. I realize I haven't been attentive to her needs and deprived her on that as a husband.

I plan to continue reading those books as I need all the help I can get. Besides, who can tell what's on a woman's mind???

 

She knows I bought those books as I told her and read the titles to her before I ordered them from Amazon. Plan to give her one, esp. one that covers low desire, and get her to read it.

 

The books aren't only about sex either as one is on marriage improvement and how to rekindle your romance, though it covers sex.

 

Sheet Music says sex is a good baramoter of a marriage. If a marriage is great, sex accounts for about 10% of the relationship. If the marriage is in trouble, sex is 90% of the problem!!! (bec. lack of sex shows and hurts one of the partners).

 

We talk a lot more on the phone now, more than we ever have. In the past, I would go on week-long bus. trips and hardly call her. Now that we're apart, I can't stop calling her.

 

Via OVERNIGHT MAIL, she sent me a valentine's card and a small gift, chocolate.

I mailed her a GIANT v-day card and have a small gift awaiting her here -- a teddy bear (told her the gift is here).

 

Am soooooooooooo looking forward to seeing her in 2 weekends... Just wanna hold her as tight and as long as I can...

[ClarenceRutherford]

Here's a posting by a WOMAN on another board who seems to agree with my sentiments about either spouse unilaterlly ending sex in a marriage (No. I didn't post in that thread...).

link removed

 

Its really not acceptable for anyone in a marriage to just tell the other partner that they will no longer have sex with them (or worse, not to even tell them and just keep refusing). It's hurtful and selfish. You deserve more.

That sounds like a rationalization of my feelings, but so be it.

And yes, I get it that we need to figure out the reasons why a spouse suddenly stops.

Still, I'm not the only one who thinks refusal and wittholding is wrong.

[OptomisticGirl]

And I'm pretty sure that spouse isn't getting any either and that is why they have that view. How would your wife feel if you told her she had no right to deny you simply because you guys are married? How would she feel if you told her screw her sex drive and how she felt.. what you needed was more important?

[ClarenceRutherford]

And I'm pretty sure that spouse isn't getting any either and that is why they have that view.

 

How would your wife feel if you told her she had no right to deny you simply because you guys are married?

How would she feel if you told her screw her sex drive and how she felt.. what you needed was more important?

About that poster, I haven't looked at TinkerBell's other posts and don't know that poster, but misery loves company!!

 

A sexless marriage by definition is an oddity. And I'm not gonna let this marriage go down the drain.

 

I don't have the attitude of "screw you..." This is a marriage, after all, not a one-sided relationship with one spouse ordering or dictating things the other must do...

 

Have never told my wife she has no right to deny me simply bec. we're married. Being married, however, gives me a better position than not...

 

I never threatened to leave her if she didn't have sex with me.

To clarify someone else's accusation, in another thread I stated in the posting -- not personally to my wife -- that I may leave if the situation doesn't improve... I was kinda chicken to issue such an ultimatum.

 

True, I've said, "Debbie, we're married now. Why can't we ML? I love you and you love me. Besides, if we ML, you'll forget what you were mad about earlier. ML also helps you sleep...

"Let's celebrate our love this way..." or some things (I know, corny) like that but of course those lines never work.

 

I find I can't argue her or persuade her with my logic to give herself to me.

I gotta get to her emotions.

 

Gonna read more of Love & Respect and Resurrecting Sex. Going on a trip next week and need to open those books. That's all I really have now: books and any info. I can glean from them and online. I gotta make it. This is my chance to improve our relationship and get us back together...

 

So am gonna follow what Janeiac, Velvette, you and others recommended and stop focusing so much on sex.

 

You know, I was getting defensive after seeing your response, but now I'm more energized and looking forward to the upcoming weekend. Not planning to be on the online boards much then.....

[OptomisticGirl]

Those lines don'r work because some of what you said is... well, crap. ML doesn't make you forget what you were mad about and certaintly doesn't make me sleepy. Saying these tings you wife is only seeing it as you want ML and that's it.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Those lines don'r work because some of what you said is... well, crap. ML doesn't make you forget what you were mad about and certaintly doesn't make me sleepy. Saying these tings you wife is only seeing it as you want ML and that's it.

Didn't mean those as just LINES.

I earnestly want to become sexual with my wife again.

They weren't empty gestures or flattery. Nor just mere words.

 

"C'mon, Debbie. Where's the "ON" swtich?...." (No, I haven't used that one)...

 

Maybe it would be like a woman dropping hints to get her partner to help cut the vegs. for dinner, or vacuum the living room, or here's some hints on what we need in our home...

 

But then again, I can't run anything past you, Optimistic Girl.

You see through every trick or gimmick I try ... Maybe my wife is a perceptive as you...

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes but there comes a time when a woman doesn't want it, flattery can upset her MORE than helping the situation.

 

And I would def. not use that one. If my sex drive had waned and my husband said that, I would see it as very sarcastic unless said in a proper, funny setting. Even then if I knew he wasn't happy with the amount of sex we were having, I would still find it irratating.

 

We women usually are more perceptive then our fellow sex thinks. And we wouldn't drop hints to have help with those things... we would just ask. Sure, there are times when you play 'hard to get' in the bedroom but if you want something you gotta ask or talk to her about it. Like I said, don't make the sole goal to HAVE sex.. show her you want to get to the bottom of her sex drop without even caring if you get sex out of it. I think if she's that, that sex isn't the 'end' goal it will help her open up - unless her sex drive has just naturally dropped over the things.

[truegrit]

I guess I am confused? You keep talking about no sex in your marriage and from what you've said the last times you've seen her you had sex? You talked about the day you had it 3 times in one day and also talked about the other days. I know you don't see her often, but it seemed you were over the dry period, so I don't understand why your stressing over it?

[ClarenceRutherford]

I guess I am confused? You keep talking about no sex in your marriage and from what you've said the last times you've seen her you had sex? You talked about the day you had it 3 times in one day and also talked about the other days. I know you don't see her often, but it seemed you were over the dry period, so I don't understand why your stressing over it?

We're coming out of a very long sexless marriage. So please be patient with me and my rants. It's difficult to live like that.

 

While we've had relations maybe 6 times this fall and Christmas, a sexless marriage is clinically defined as TEN times or less a year. So I guess we're still in a sexless marriage, though it's improving. This is much better than once a year!!

 

Living in separate states in the SE and SW, that isn't helping either. I experience periods of extreme loneliness and find I often get paranoid and overreact, thinking she's withdrawing.

Fortunately, she hasn't seen me in such a state. Hoping I'm hiding it from her.

 

Am using this thread as sort of a blog, where I post what's going on and how I'm feeling. Am pretty sure she's not wanting to leave me, judging from our telephone conversations. We're meeting at the airport this weekend... our first visit since the three weeks we spent together over Christmas and New Year's.

 

Here's a good discussion of what a sexless marriage is.

link removed

[truegrit]

Well, it doesn't seem that your doing too bad in the bedroom dept. considering how least often you see her. I didn't know there was a set amount of times that deem one having a sexless marriage, that's interesting............

[ClarenceRutherford]

This is the weekend we're seeing each other. We meet in the same airport Fri. am.

I'm returning from a bus. trip. Unfortunately, we're not on the same airline.

 

Plan to remember what people told me here and try my best not to pressure her for sex.

Am only gonna try to hold her -- and not attempt any groping -- that's gonna be hard though as I'm a man and can't control my hands -- and see where it leads....

 

Wish me luck, everyone.

[sunnyhappydays]

I feel sorry for FM. I don't really understand why he's getting such a beating. What's wrong with wanting to have sex in a marriage? Yes, the lack of sex could be due to his not meeting his wife's emotional needs, but doesn't she then have a responsibility to tell him that? If he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life not having sex, then why should he? I think it's telling that the people criticizing him here are 22 and not married, and Fudgie (who I like very much but says she doesn't like sex, if I remember reading her other threads). Being asexual is completely fine, but it's not the normal experience of most people. Most married people have sex more than once every 5 years or whatever and I don't think asexual people or people who don't like sex should try and guilt trip the rest of us into feeling abnormal for wanting something that 99% of the population desires.

 

FM - you should go to the marriageadvocates, divorcebusting or marriagebuilders websites. They are full of married couples whose partners refused to have sex with them pretty soon after they got married, refuse to go to counseling and claim "nothing is wrong" and just "get over it" even though their partners are desperate for sex. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with your partner for life. It doesn't make you evil or obsessed with sex. Most people want to have sex with their romantic partner and people who don't are the exception. And to have sex with someone, set a norm and then unilaterally change it is mean. People are setting up nonsensical straw men to try and brand FM a pseudo rapist. Yes, no one should have sex against their will but that is NOT the only alternative in a MARRIAGE. You can go to counseling, sex therapists, even TELL your partner that you understand that this hurts them and that you are sorry. You can talk about what kind of things you do like, or what would help. Like everything in marriage, you have to care at least a little about how your actions affect your partner. Anything else is SELFISH. If I decided to gain 100 pounds or not wash anymore, or buy thousands of dollars worth of clothes, that is my choice. I am an autonomous being and no one can tell me what to do. But if I smell disgusting, or we have no pension and it makes my marriage UNHAPPY, don't I have a responsibility at least to be honest and open about why I am doing it with my partner.

 

Honestly, I'm a woman and this was just like 12 hysterical pages of feminists screaming RAPE RAPE RAPE. It's like feminists want the freedom for women to never be criticized. No woman can be inconsiderate or mean, we have to understand her "feelings" but a guy's feelings are not important, especially when he wants something dirty like "sex". This is ridiculous. Women like sex too! We LIKE sex. This isn't the Victorian times. Being female doesn't mean being asexual. Plenty of men are asexual! The women talking on this thread are not representative of women in society. Women are not these emotionally fragile beings who put up with dirty horrible sex from men (for what, money?), who have probably been molested as children, and need to be treated with kid gloves and spoiled like children to be bribed into marital communication. It's ridiculous and offensive. Equality means equality. FM's wife has as much of a responsibility to come to him and say "you are not meeting my needs. I don't want to have sex because of A, B or C. Let's go to counseling." She's not a child so let's stop treating her like one. I honestly found this quite dispiriting. If a man turned around and said, I work and you stay at home so it's my money and you can have a tiny allowance, most people would think it's unfair. But a woman says - no sex for life and I won't talk about it ever again and she's a precious lickle baby who needs to be protected from big evil man parts. This is why women will never ever EVER get equality. In marriage, in the workplace, anywhere. Because they don't want any responsibility. They don't want equality, they want special treatment.

 

Btw - I'm a woman and I wasn't molested as a child. I don't think having sex in a relationship is rape. So there's one at least!

[OptomisticGirl]

No one said he should just deal with it and me being young has no meaning - you don't jave to be a genisus to realize saying 'just because your married to me means you have to give it to me' is what's selfish and 1800 thinking. If you cant handle critizsm then yes, perhaps people should post on a like minded board.

 

As far as being feminist... I'm far from it but i DO believe even if you marry doesnt mean you give up the right to say no - and if your spouse doesn't like it they cam hit the toad.

[OptomisticGirl]

Furthermore, I refuse to handle myself with kid gloves. I love sex and have a HUGE sex drive but when someone only co+plains about not having sec yrs, they are focusing on that aspect way too much and need to realize sec isn't everything.

[truegrit]

Well, unlike OG I am married and been married more than once.....became a widow after 25 years. However, with over 30+ years of marriage experience I side with OG........ He not saying he is in a sexless marriage anymore he had some problems but they seem to be overcoming them. He is in a long distance relationship which I'm sure makes getting on track a bit harder. My only words to him have been that he seems to be kinda obsessed with the sexual aspects of his marriage and that in itself, at least for me would be a turn off. Anyway, just wanted to take OG's back a little on this one.

[ClarenceRutherford]

Thank you, SunnyHappyDays.

Yes, some of the posters here may have gone overboard, but they do have a point. They may have posted things I didn't want to hear, but still needed to hear it.

 

I've done a lot of thinking on this and now realize partners in marriage should be independent of each other. Both need strong independence, as I'm reading in Intimacy & Desire:

 

 

 

Plan to post more quotes from the book which I'm learning a lot from.

Read through one of the chapters and saw myself being described therein.

 

Essentially, the high-drive partner often seeks affirmation in the low drive partner. When the HDP doesn't get it, he/she feels unloved. That person has a relected sense of self- he/she gets his sense of worth externally (from others) instead of internally, where it should be. This places a burden on the low-desire partner.

 

 

 

I may lessen my ENA involvement. Communication with some here has discouragingly lessened (no replies to some of my PMs). I came to this and other boards last fall after realizing this crisis in my marriage.

[sunnyhappydays]

No one said he should just deal with it and me being young has no meaning - you don't jave to be a genisus to realize saying 'just because your married to me means you have to give it to me' is what's selfish and 1800 thinking. If you cant handle critizsm then yes, perhaps people should post on a like minded board.

 

As far as being feminist... I'm far from it but i DO believe even if you marry doesnt mean you give up the right to say no - and if your spouse doesn't like it they cam hit the toad.

 

Being a feminist means being a grown up. If you've got marital problems, fix them or leave - that goes for both partners. I've got no sympathy for women who are passive and complain all day and then use sex as a weapon. Millions of women fought and died so that women had other choices than just to be stuck in an awful marriage and withhold sex. They fought for divorce and singleness and birth control and equality in the workplace. These women (including FM's wife) are an embarrassment to those pioneers. It's 2011 not 1941. Most women seem to believe in equality until they can't get something they want and then it's back to the old tricks.

 

No one says married women have to be raped. Just that your partner deserves a conversation at least before you turn off sex forever. Not sure why this is controversial but I guess treating women like they have the capacity to be logical and grown up instead of just acting like emotional little children is rape.

[sunnyhappydays]

Well, unlike OG I am married and been married more than once.....became a widow after 25 years. However, with over 30+ years of marriage experience I side with OG........ He not saying he is in a sexless marriage anymore he had some problems but they seem to be overcoming them. He is in a long distance relationship which I'm sure makes getting on track a bit harder. My only words to him have been that he seems to be kinda obsessed with the sexual aspects of his marriage and that in itself, at least for me would be a turn off. Anyway, just wanted to take OG's back a little on this one.

 

That's fair. But it's also different than calling him a rapist. Which is what OG was basically doing. I feel sorry for him and honestly think he's needy and should have called his wife's bluff a long time ago - seriously if more people were willing to end relationships over this, their partners would soon get over whatever hissy fit and "trauma" they are acting out and decide to act like an adult. But poor people like FM will stick around for 10 years of craps while getting needier and needier and more unhappy. Life is too short.

[OptomisticGirl]

I think it's safe to say the only feminist in this this thread is YOU. FM has admitted more than once to ignoring his wife's sexual needs at the beginning of their relationship and for years - your damn right if I were in her position, it would put me off sex if my husband was all about HIS sexual gratification. Should she have talked to him about it? Sure, but FM admits himself he knew nothign about the female orgasm or anything of that regard... it's hard to talk to someone if they aren't going to listen or understand, no?

 

And what you don't seem to understand is many people - thousands - lose their sex drive AND DON'T KNOW WHY. It's hard to talk about why something if - gasp - you yourself don't understand fully. The only person with a Victorian era thinking is YOU my dear. So because women are married they have to 'announce' when their sex drives wane? Please. And I expect the same of men.

 

I may not be married and I may be young but I have been in committed relationships - and am in an LDR myself - and was continually turned down by my ex for almost two years because I gained weight. I know what's it like to have a high sex drive and to be told continually, so don't lecture me on being an over bearing feminist when I know what I'm talking about and when I give FM advice to stop thinking about the sex, it's genuine advice.

 

 

 

Please don't speak for what I was saying. It was not basically what I was doing. If a man EXPECTS his wife to give him sex EVEN IF SHE IS NOT WILLING yes, that is severly crossing a line. When your own sexual needs over power your parterns to the point if they aren't in the mood they HAVE to give you sex to satisfy you then yes, you are a borderline rapist because you are taking something that does not want to be given to you at that time.

 

And what exactly is the wives' bluff? You talk of equality and how women died and fought for a woman's right... how about a woman's right to just not want sex anymore? Oh, but that's right.. in the confines of a marriage independence goes out the window.

[truegrit]

I guess my age must be coming thru, but I really think MARRIAGE and a pledge to honor each other for a lifetime shouldn't be "game over" because one mate loses their libido. FM stated that in an earlier thread that unless he started getting sex he was heading for divorce. Or what if one partner gets a physical impairment where they can't have sex then OK I'm outta here according to the statements I'm hearing. It just seems folks tend to take marriage as a convenience just for themselves anymore. But, again I'm old so maybe I see it differently.........

[ClarenceRutherford]

Am kind of surprised no one in this thread asked me how the weekend went.

But maybe I don't want to talk about it..

[gallop30]

how did the weekend go?

[Capricorn3]

Am kind of surprised no one in this thread asked me how the weekend went.

But maybe I don't want to talk about it..

I've been away for about a week hence no input from me.

 

But clearly you DO want to talk about, which is why you posted, right?

 

So, how was your weekend?

[truegrit]

I wondered but thought you didn't want to talk about it

[ClarenceRutherford]

I wondered but thought you didn't want to talk about it

Good to hear. Thought few cared.

 

It was a like a great date. The whole weekend we were together, like we were dating again.

 

Honestly, as other posters recommended, I tried to keep the physical pressure low.

Tried to just let it happen. It never happened, though, and the weekend was nearing an end.

During the last few hours on Sun. afternoon, I broke that and tried to go farther.

 

She had been napping in my arms, so she is fatigued from her long hours at her job and all.

She told me she was too tired and not in the mood, but still loves me.

 

Told her how we haven't seen each other IN LIKE TWO MONTHS and won't for another month, so....

 

I was clearly upset and it showed in my face at the airport.

 

Did discover she apparently never "checked out" of our marriage, as I brought up some stuff and asked her about how she felt towards me in the past. Again apologized for past throughtlessness and not paying more attention to her sexual and other needs. So that's out there.

 

Tried to put that advice I read in Intimacy & Desire to work - that the high-drive partner shouldn't put so much validation in the partner and think he/she isn't loved when the low-drive partner doesn't respond.

Explained all that to her and told her I had been putting a burden on her by trying to fulfill my emotional needs through her. Easy to read and undertand, hard to put into practice.