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ClarenceRutherford

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  • Birthday 03/26/1962

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  1. I see AdviceWanted, MNF, Bluesman & even Vacation are gone. Corvidae's still posting on ENA, though. Would be interesting hearing any updates. How are you guys doing with your approaches to women? Vacation offered some solid advice here. Would be good to hear if any of you applied ( & experienced success with ) some of the advice he provided. MODS: I know this is an old thread, but the advice is useful & could help many single men in similar situations. Please allow it to stand.
  2. That's entirely normal and something many of us did. If you must cry, don't let the other see your emotions. Everly Bros. "I'll do my cryin' in the rain...." Since we're not together, I look for stormy weather to hide these tears I hope you'll never see. I may be a fool but till then darlin' you'll never see me complain, I'll do my cryin' in the rain... Realize it's tough, but the hard truth is it's over. Kaput. There's nothing you can do about it and trying to re-initiate contact will only make matters worse.
  3. No one is suggesting the OP, who's no longer involved in ENA, "settle." Anyone should be able to date anyone they want. Not suggestin' someone "dabble" with someone else and use the dating experience merely for an "ego boost." Even so, most older women may be flattered to see a younger guy show interest. The first girl I seriously dated in HS, most would call her "plain." Her looks weren't terribly important to me. Targeted her for several reasons: Wanted to date (others were dating in HS, felt I should too), she looked fine and didn't want rejection. Of course, she could have said no, but didn't and we enjoyed a long-term relationship. Dating is to discover what you want (and don't want). That was a deliberate "strategy" of mine in my late 20s. Frustrated by the ambivalence of young 20-something women I dated @25-26, decided to go for the gals 1-6 yrs. older than me. As they were getting into their 30s, figured they'd be more serious about wanting a relationship, which is what I wanted. My hunches proved true and I enjoyed more relationships. From then on, every woman I dated was a few years older. If guys in their late 20s like the OP have never even gone out on a date, it's best they realistically consider the type of women they could be successful with: .......the shy and not-the-most-popular women just might be more willing to say yes to a dating invitation. Where guys like the OP take it from there, that's up to them.
  4. Bingo. Well-stated. That "plain" or "average"-looking girl that many overlook... she might say yes to a guy's dating invitation and ultimately prove a better relationship than the so-called "hot" women.
  5. On the Dale Carnegie book, take a look at this shy dating guy's review.
  6. 22 is not really very old, so that's one positive. You have plenty of time. Though many of us dated (or tried to) in college, lots of us guys didn't awaken and get serious about dating until our mid-20s, me at 25-26.... You're not at that age where many guys begin to panic -- late 20s/early 30s. Clubs and groups - like church singles groups - can be hit-and-miss. At 30, I found a church-related singles group. Unfortunately, the women in that group (this was another city from the one mentioned earlier) were close to 40 or 40+ and divorced, so I didn't really relate to them. That's the attitude. So one door closes, try another door. One place you interview for a job says no, try another company. You have to have confidence not only in yourself and your abilities (in dating AND job interviewing) but be strong enough to not let rejection tear you apart. Lemme warn you -- once you get into a real relationship, as I did at 25-26, and she dumps you after 6 mos., it can tear you apart. Have read many guys like us who didn't really get that real dating relationship until our mid-20s. Then she changes her mind and says she doesn't want to see you anymore. That devastated me. Called in sick the next Monday and felt my world was coming apart. So gotta have some maturity and not let that kind of rejection tear you up. Just read some of the posts here such as "My fiance left me out of the blue" by GreenPolicy. Vacation is good at that kind of advice. Just keep asking women out for dates wherever you meet them. If you're attracted to a woman, ask her out there, but after some conversation so you can judge the signals. If she's difficult to talk to and doesn't say much or doesn't respond favorably to your conversation, that could be a sign she's not interested. That's prob. not a good place for a newbie. Many of those women are highly experienced and can sense inexperience. You need to learn conversation skills. A good book on what to say to almost anyone is How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. If you're not good at starting conversation, that book should help. I wasn't very confident nor conversational in my 20s either. It's not a book on dating, but can give you ideas on how to start and keep conversation going. link removed Buy the book (do a search) or download it for free from the link above. In talking with women, try to focus on them. Don't let thoughts of what to say next fill your mind, and don't think only of what you want to say while she's talking. Listen intently to what women say. If she says she likes rock climbing or visiting museums or overseas travel (or any other acivity), say you are active in that too or if you don't know much about it, don't lie. Say you'd never really done that and would like to know more. Steer the conversation towards doing something with her. Get ideas by what she tells you. Then say, "I'd like you to join me in a visit to such museum exhibit this weekend...." or something similar. That thread I linked to earlier might help too in conversation. Same with the cold-call I described in this thread doing to a woman I met at 28.... just struck-up conversation with this woman. Why she was there, why she's interested in that field of study, etc. It led to me asking her out to a dinner date or some activity. Good luck.
  7. Thanks for the kind words. The advice given here is to help others, not sell some program or advocate PUA techniques. My life's an open book here. I'd advise against the bar scene, unless you're into that. It sounds like you don't enjoy it that much. I tried a bar for a short while, as a woman I was interested in hung out there. However, the smoke burned my eyes and as I don't drink, decided it wasn't for me. Take a look at this thread. Help for those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s It might give you some ideas on where to meet women. In short, try church singles groups, other singles groups, clubs, activities (bowling league etc.), and start going to places where you might meet women. Don't know your age, but if you're in college, that's a great place to meet women, with all the clubs and groups there. Outside of college, once you get into your cubicle world and live in an apt., it's much more difficult. If you're into bicycling, get involved in a bicycling group. Or a ski group, the type that goes on ski trips. Or the gardening club. Sports group. League sports. Film fans, etc. The singles group route seems like the easiest. At 25-26, I phoned the different churches in the town of 100,000 I lived in during the late 80s and asked if they had singles programs. They were hard to find back then. That's where I met this shy 30 y.o. virgin I've posted on. You may not believe everything a particular church espouses, but it won't hurt you to go and you'll likely meet more people there. Plus, the women you meet there may match your lifestyle more than the ones you'd meet at a bar. Hint the larger churches in a particular city, the major and mainstream denominations, such as Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, etc., are more likely to have singles groups. We can help you on the encouragement part. Methinks some of the things me and some other posters addressed in the thread I linked may help you. May add more later, but this should be a starting point.
  8. That's not great and I feel for you, TehShyGuy. Was a lot like you... there were opportunities I clearly missed in college and in my mid-20s . Dated and was in relationships in my late 20s, but the only way I seemed to get away from being single came after a blind date set up by my future wife's best friend. Though that first double date didn't seem to go so well, the other dates I had with her went much better and everything seemed to click. Was comfortable with myself, expressed a sense of humor, listened to her, didn't get too worried that this was "the one" (tried to just enjoy the time I had with her, not worry about the inevitible breakup) and it seemed to go well. That's a key point. You have to approach at least in some way. That's a good attitude. Assuming she's a never-married mother? Even if she was divorced, many single guys in their 20s wouldn't want to date someone with a child and become an "instant family" that way. Don't blame you there. If you're not comfortable with that kind of thing, best to move on. (Not sayin' single parents have less worth). Did date a couple of divorced women, but neither had kids. Dated a single mother who had an infant, assumed she wasn't married. Never got to hear the story about her as she didn't accept a second or third date. Probably for the best. The dates with the divorced women went okay. If they had kids, I might have been okay with that but like you, that wasn't something I really wanted. Just make sure your dealbreaker list is relatively short: no smokers, drug/alcohol abuse, kids, etc. As you get into your 40s, the no-kids prohibition becomes less practical....
  9. Sorry you feel that way. Vacation and I are only trying to help. Like we said, we've been in your shoes. At 32, as you get close to 40 and are still dateless, you may one day regret being so wedded to your views ("woman should approach") and look back and wish you'd tried some things.... like I've regreted not trying some things with opportunities I had with women. Am talking about going farther in conversation, not necessarily sexual advances some made (yes, I turned some down, boy do I regret doing that). You will have opportunities. It's a matter of what you do with those openings. Recall advising you to date older women, who may be more interested in relationships. One hazard of that is, well... they'll age faster. That woman I dated in the cold-call. Looked her up recently on Facebook. She's gray haired and much older than me.... One regret I have is marrying in my 30s... Should've wised-up and got more serious about dating in my early 20s.... For the record: was gonna bail on this thread a long time ago, but thought I could give you a diff. perspective. It won't hurt you to approach women. The benefits would exceed the risks... But this wasn't a total waste. Other guys may benefit from Vacation & my suggestions...
  10. That's a critical mistake you're making. Many women won't give "clear indications" they're interested. Oftentimes, guys can't always read a woman's signals. If you only pursued women who gave you signals, you're gonna limit yourself and not get that close to finding a real love. Vacation is right: if you a see a woman that interests you, start some conversation and if things go well and she seems receptive, steer the conversation into the two of you meeting the next weekend to talk more over dinner, during a visit to a community arts and crafts fair, a visit to a museum, ballgame or something "neutral" like coffee...etc. That's what I did with a woman I "cold-called" at 27-28 at night grad school classes. Saw her sitting in the chairs between classes. She was reading a book or something. Didn't pick up any signals. I don't think she noticed me on the other side of the hallway. Just seemed attracted to her so I go and sit next to her. Struck up conversation with her. Why was she there? What classes taking? What she likes about the field she's in? etc. Not an overly long conversation, but enough to generate some rapport. As it seemed she felt comfortable with me, invited her to a weekend date. That led to a 1.5 year relationship. This older woman dumped me later, but look what I got out of that, lots of kissing and other things. In those days in the late 80s before the internet, hadn't read any PUA articles and I certainly wasn't a player. In my late 20s, something in me told me I needed to be more forward so when I saw her sitting there. it was like I was on the high diving board and realized I had to take the plunge.... In my late 20s, got tired of the ambivalence of women in their early 20s. Something inside me told me I might do better with women a little older than me, as I thought many of them would be seeking what I wanted: a relationship. That woman in the night school was 5-6 yrs. older than me and most of the women I dated in my late 20s were a few years older. Ended up marrying a woman 4 yrs. older.
  11. Analogies aren't always perfect, if you wanna get technical MNF. It's the end result we're talking about. Would wager many people don't enjoy the dating game, though they may enjoy the steady gal/guy they date, so the analogy works in that way: you have to do certain things to achieve results. TBH, I didn't much enjoy dating girl after girl in my mid-late 20s. Didn't like getting stood-up at the restaurant we were supposed to meet for the first date, or if she showed, telling me she was leaving for the symphony within an hour or so... Yes, that really happened. Should have told her that was "disrespectful" and got up and left her there... Of course, that was at a Shoney's, so not like I invested a lot of dough in that date... Maybe it would have looked bad me throwing a fit dunno. Or waiting for this older college-age girl I dated at 25 to finish watching DALLAS (TV show) before I picked her up that Fri. night.... ....or the many other nuisances a guy has to put up with... Good point. May not be prudent for a guy to chase the "hot girls" or ones he feels are out of his league. Have always advised inexperienced guys to go for the "more attainable" women, the ones more like them, shy, the ones that may not be so popular but still possess average- to good-looking physical characteristics... Vacation's recommendations are sound. He's not a player (he was once like we were, shy and unlucky at love) and not advocating PUA strategies. The point is to break out of your shell and do more approaching so you meet more women and get closer to the love you desperately need.
  12. NMF, most of us were never into the PUA stuff, but realized to get anywhere, we had to make some moves, just like in a job search. So searching for a job while you're jobless, it's best to only apply to the (relatively few) jobs you're attracted to? Or only the ones announced? Don't expand your horizons and consider other opportunities? It's up to you to make that move, to meet with someone at Co. XYZ and learn that co. is considering adding a new postion. You could get an interview before they even advertise the opening !!! Women are like many "hidden" or "non-advertised" jobs: You gotta go out there and approach them, and pick-up on the signals they send. Women aren't advertisin' their interest. Can tell you're frustrated. Dating's a pain. What we're advising is to help you.
  13. Do you seriously enjoy job searches? Esp. when you were unemployed, as I once was. You mean to tell me that was fun? Writing and emailing companies, making cold calls, going on interviews, meeting people at the networking meetings, etc. Losing out on jobs to someone else, applying to more companies and finding they've picked an inside the co. candidate or someone younger than you. Your time and patience runs thin as your bank account goes lower.... You run the AC/heat more efficient, to save money. It's a struggle to put gas in the car so you pass-up on the buffet at the nice restaurant and instead go for fast-food chicken.... Was job searching something you got a lot of personal satisfaction out of? Then why'd you do it? The end result. Setting them up for rejections and heartache? That's the real world, NMF! We wish it weren't so, but many girls are gonna say no. That's a fact. Still, it would somehow be better to not risk rejection (don't ask many out) and hope they come to you?
  14. It isn't about finding satisfaction in the act of asking women out. Do you really think a state trooper feels great having to tell a woman her husband died in a car accident? Or that a judge "enjoys" sentencing a 16 y.o. to life in prison for murdering his parents? No, but it's the job they must do. How you get there and find the woman you could spend your life with, it isn't always so pleasant. Dating is a pain. Most hate dating and all the things you have to do (and $$) to land a good partner. Guys have to approach women as women traditionally don't do the initiating, though they may send signals. So take rejections with stride and move on to the next. Yes, imagine it did smart. Have myself done similar things and got ignored. Once asked a woman out shortly after meeting her at church. A relative who was with me at the church later told me that woman was "offended" I asked her out so soon. She was this radio deejay, so thought she'd be used to guys asking her out. No biggie. Just shrugged it off and didn't think I'd done anything wrong as guys ask girls out like that all the time. TBH, didn't really make many "cold calls" like that (can only remember 3-4), but felt I had to do something as was getting old and unlucky with love.... So I know where you guys are comin' from. May I recommend you take a gander at some of the tips found in this thread: Help for those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s Perhaps the information there could help guys like you.
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