Advice Needed: Setting internal deadline of boyfriend proposing

[OptomisticGirl]

What? I'm sorry I guess I just really don't understand what you are saying.

 

If I marry anyone I will marry you.

 

This is the scenario you gave a few posts bafck. This is what my statement 'he's still saying he wants to marry her' comes from. He may not be ready but he wants to marry her, the woman in this situation you brought up.

[OptomisticGirl]

I find this quite off topic! It is a separate topic. If this was OP's only concern I am certain she could find some random bum off the street.

 

Actually it's not. Many people have bought up that a good reason to demand a proposal is a 30 year old woman's biological clock ticking. Because she isn't young she therefore has the right to demand marriage sooner than a younger woman. It is completely within topic. I agree with DN, the fact that a woman ends a relationship with a man not only because she isn't getting a proposal to fit her biological clock (and I can say this because believe me, MINE ticks very loudly so I am aware of that need), then she shouldn't be in a relationship with that man. This is the point I have been trying to make.

 

It's fine to have goals and know what you want but to hop from one man tot he next until you find someone who is willing to put a ring on yrou finger and impregnant you? Just doesn't sound like any love is involved.

[Scar]

I agree with some posts. Be selfish and consider how much it will hurt you if he doesnt meet the deadline.

[Applewhite]

If I marry anyone I will marry you.

 

This is the scenario you gave a few posts bafck. This is what my statement 'he's still saying he wants to marry her' comes from. He may not be ready but he wants to marry her, the woman in this situation you brought up.

 

So you think this is equivalent to him saying he wants to marry her?

[OptomisticGirl]

So you think this is equivalent to him saying he wants to marry her?

 

How is it NOT? He's stating that when he marries he wants it to be her. I don't see how much clearer it can be really.

[Applewhite]

How is it NOT? He's stating that when he marries he wants it to be her. I don't see how much clearer it can be really.

 

Uhm I disagree. I urge you to re-read that particular statement as well as the context in which it was posted.

[OptomisticGirl]

I did read it. You can love someone and not know if you ready or not. He has that right as much as a woman does who isn't sure.

[Applewhite]

^ Maybe it's just me - but I do not follow your thought process.

[OptomisticGirl]

How hard is it to follow? If a woman has the right to not be ready so does a man. Equality and all.

[Applewhite]

^Of course everyone has a right to be ready/not ready. I never said otherwise.

 

Check this ...

 

Here you would vote for the first option? Because that is what you just said.

[OptomisticGirl]

^Of course everyone has a right to be ready/not ready. I never said otherwise.

 

Check this ...

 

Here you would vote for the first option? Because that is what you just said.

 

Yes, I would. But there are so many thigns to consider that aren't in this context.

[Circe]

OG, "If I marry someone, I would marry you" does not mean he wants to marry her some day. The first "If" is the problem here. If he never marries anyone, in his entire life, because he simply does not wish to get married - then his statement would still be true.. and she will never get married.

 

DN - you've said before that if a man proposes to a woman and she refuses - then he has a right to walk away. I apologise if you haven't said this but I seem to remember that you have.. more than once. I agree with that, by the way. But what's the difference between that - and a woman stating that if she doesn't get married by - say 25 January 2011 - she's leaving?

 

What if she didnt state this - she just waited till 25 January - her internal deadline.. and then proposed to him - and then she left the relationship when he shot her down. Would she still be demanding?

 

I don't see any difference between setting a vague internal deadline and a specific one. The only difference is vague means you are unsure about whether you should end it now or by the end of the month when the internal deadline approaches. It makes more logical sense to have a date for your own peace of mind.

[Applewhite]

This post is one that I can logically follow!

[DN]

Of course people have a right to do what they want but I cannot agree that there isn't a a difference between a vague internal deadline and a specific one.

 

My point is this: if a man wants to get married he proposes to the woman. He chooses the time and can do so after discussion of mutual goals or as a complete surprise. He has almost complete control over the circumstances up to the actual proposal and then the woman gets her turn by accepting or declining. He isn't demanding anything.

 

But so many women think that because they don't have that same control they can demand that he exercise it when they want him to - even if they haven't voiced what they want. They expect the man to propose on their time scale regardless and that is what I mean by demanding - and it just doesn't work.

 

In these modern times there is no need to go that route. Women can take control if they wish and propose themselves instead of being so passively demanding.

[OptomisticGirl]

Very well put DN.

 

It's still a double standard. If a man proposed to a woman and she siad no, I'm not ready for such and such reasons, and he broke up with her for that, he would be viewed as the bad guy for ending the relationship. And yet a woman can end in a otherwise loving relationship simply becuase the guy isn't meeting her deadline and it's okay? I'm sorry, but I still see that as a woman only looking at the end result of relationship: a ring on her finger and a bun in the oven. And until she gets that she's going to hop from one guy to the next. I doubt there is love in that. And so much enjoying the relationship and the person you are with.

[lostnscared]

Very well put DN.

 

It's still a double standard. If a man proposed to a woman and she siad no, I'm not ready for such and such reasons, and he broke up with her for that, he would be viewed as the bad guy for ending the relationship. And yet a woman can end in a otherwise loving relationship simply becuase the guy isn't meeting her deadline and it's okay? I'm sorry, but I still see that as a woman only looking at the end result of relationship: a ring on her finger and a bun in the oven. And until she gets that she's going to hop from one guy to the next. I doubt there is love in that. And so much enjoying the relationship and the person you are with.

 

I have to agree with the idea that if a person turned down a proposal (for a genuine reasoning of not being ready) and the other person left because of that, then I would question just how much they loved that person and were invested into the relationship. I wouldn't doubt that love was there, that the person was somewhat invested, but I would start to question how much. I would also wonder(as OG has said here) what is the more important goal? To get married, or to be with that person that you love? Because a person who felt that getting married was more important, would be able to walk away and do as everyone here has suggested and protect himself/herself. The person who saw marriage as a goal, but saw "love" as the bigger goal in the context of everything(commitment, marriage, etc) would not leave right away--at least--because while they want to get married, the stipulation is that they want to be married to the person they love.

That is what always comes to mind, when I see people who desperately want to get married, leave a really good relationship, because the proposal didn't come when they wanted it to. It is in those cases that I DO question if that person was more concerned with getting married(and having that title) than they were being with someone who in all other aspects completes them. So I get what OG is saying.

On the other hand, if marriage is your goal--and you feel that way whether you love that person or not--then I see nothing wrong with walking away. Self-protection is survival in this world. But I know for myself, if I loved someone genuinely, then I wouldn't be able to walk away because he wasn't ready YET for marriage. Because in my eyes, me wanting marriage, isn't an "end goal" but rather it's me getting married to the person I LOVE that is the end goal. Others have said this on other threads, and I'll say it here: I love my "so" so much so that even if he were to tell me doesn't ever know if he'll get married to me--I'd stay with him despite this because I just love HIM and don't necessarily need the "title" of marriage nor want it more than I want to have that "relationship" with him. I just wouldn't be able to walk away, because the "goal of marriage" was not a goal until I met him, therefore I don't see it as working in my favor to dump him to seek someone else who will marry me.

On the other hand, having kids is a goal of mine, and if he could not give me children then I would walk away. Because having children was a goal--before him--and it will be one after him.

So in other words the OP needs to assess what are bigger goals for her: marriage or marriage to the person she loves?

[Tanzi]

Thats the issue here isn't it? Whether you truly love that person or whether marriage is more important to you than love. If you loved someone unconditionally would you really walk away from them? Think about all the sad, lonely hearts on here who are struggling to get through broken relationships ... would someone self-inflict that upon themselves just because their partner didn't propose to them by their internal deadline? If your partner was clearly not interested in marriage then you would have to question their commitment, admittedly, but if it was because they didn't feel ready yet the relationship was still perfect otherwise and looked promising, how could anyone walk away from that?

 

I know I have said it before but I still find it unbelievable that anyone would be in a relationship where they felt the need to set a deadline. Surely when two people are seriously invested in each other they would both be aware of how the other feels and what their goals were and whether they where achievable together.

[journeynow]

Women can take control if they wish and propose themselves...

 

Agreed. Otherwise, it seems to me, you are asking for a relationship pattern in which one person makes the "big" choices and takes the big risks. Both can and should be willing to take that role in a lifetime partnership.

[lostnscared]

I agree with you here. I could not leave a good relationship--a loving one--because I wasn't get proposed to. But again, that is because I place more emphasis on being with the person a love(married or not married) than I do in having the "title" of marriage.

 

I think the OP will do what is in her best interest, but I hope she also keeps in mind, that by leaving this relationship there is no guarantee that she'll find a person that complements her the way her "so" does, OR even that she'll meet someone within the next two to three years that will marry her by this "internal" deadline. Either way--leaving him or staying--she sacrifices something and doesn't get married right away in either case.

[Tanzi]

Either way--leaving him or staying--she sacrifices something and doesn't get married right away in either case.

 

And I agree with you here. As I also said in a post above I'm not sure what she will overall achieve by setting a deadline as she will have to start all over again maybe setting yet another deadline, then another .......

[lavenderdove]

>>'If a man proposed to a woman and she siad no, I'm not ready for such and such reasons, and he broke up with her for that, he would be viewed as the bad guy for ending the relationship.'

 

No one would say the guy is a 'bad guy' for ending a relationship if he proposed and she turned him down. He's ending the relationship because he wants marriage now and she doesn't. A perfectly valid reason to end a relationship, if one person wants marriage now and the other doesn't. Everyone has all kinds of different goals, and when to marry or when to have children is one of them.

 

Everyone posting here is trying to turn this into a gender issue when really it's about how couples must have common goals and be willing to compromize on timeframes if they are going to stay together and be successful as a couple.

 

And there are certain realities that aren't too negotiable, like if a woman is getting older and doesn't have many fertile years left. So that must be taken into consideration in any negotiation about planning a wedding and children. Note that in the medical profession, any woman giving birth at 35 or older is literally known as an 'elderly primagrava', or being old to have a firstborn, and is automatically considered a high risk pregnancy.

 

We live in an age where we think it is easy to pop out kids at any age, but that is not necessariliy the case and i know many many women who are left childless because they waited until after 35 to start trying for kids. Yes, some women do succeed after 35, but many don't, especially if they are trying for a first child are 35. So if having a child is of extreme important and not something she is willing to take the chance to risk it not happening, then that has to be considered in the timing of marriage/children.

 

I think the OP shouldn't focus on anything other than she wants to get married, and to him, and she feels she needs to have children soon, so she should talk to him about it. And if he continues to turn her away and her goals of marriage and children look like they're not going to be met because he doesn't want to get married, then she has a perfect right to leave and look for a partner who does want marriage and children.

 

That's not 'hopping from man to man', that is looking for someone who has the same goals that she does, which is important to the success of any relationship. If she continues to stay with a man who seems uninterested in marrying her anytime soon, and she does want children, then she will have to make the decision to stay with him and have a child while unmarried (if he's willing) or leave and look for another man who does, or find a man who already has kids and participate as their stepmother, or have children as a single mother. She's not a bad person either for deciding that her desire for children is as important as staying wtih a man who won't really commit to her...

[Batya33]

I agree with you here. I could not leave a good relationship--a loving one--because I wasn't get proposed to. But again, that is because I place more emphasis on being with the person a love(married or not married) than I do in having the "title" of marriage.

 

I think the OP will do what is in her best interest, but I hope she also keeps in mind, that by leaving this relationship there is no guarantee that she'll find a person that complements her the way her "so" does, OR even that she'll meet someone within the next two to three years that will marry her by this "internal" deadline. Either way--leaving him or staying--she sacrifices something and doesn't get married right away in either case.

 

I don't think women who would leave if there was no proposal -or he didn't want children -is puttling more emphasis on children/marriage than the person. They are emphasizing their life goals/dreams and emphasizing finding a healthy long term relationship. I could not have had a healthy, long term relationship with a man who didn't want marriage and a family with me, period. You make it sound as if your mindset means you care more about the person than the commitment of marriage and having a child- that might be true for you, but to imply (state?) that that a woman who leaves can't be placing as much emphasis on the person is inaccurate. Wasn't true for me- and not for the women I know who had similar goals. And we weren't looking for a "title" of marriage- to us, marriage was the type of commitment we wanted with a man someday and a man who didn't want that commitment wouldn't be a good match. It's great that you know you would stay whether or not your boyfriend wanted to marry you or have children with you- knowing yourself and your wants/desires so well can only add to the health of your relationship!

[OptomisticGirl]

So people need to start having the 'do you want marriage' conversation right off the bat. And I dont think because a wiman is in het 30s gives her some lead way to hop from man to man until she finds someone that will marry her. You can say she isn't but in reality she is, whether she is doing it just to find a guy to marry her or finding someone with a common marriage interest. If all you are looking for at the end of the day is marriage and kids withou5 giving thought to the person who you are in a relationship with and loves you, you don't need to be in it. Marriage and kids are not the end of the world.

 

The point is its a joint decision, should be at least. Not all when the woman wants it.

[lostnscared]

That is exactly what I meant(if you read the other posts that came before that one). By choosing to leave an otherwise good, healthy, loving relationship, to follow your "goal", you are putting that "goal" ABOVE and beyond your relationship. So you've confirmed what I stated. Obviously if you leave a loving relationship to pursue personal goals then obviously you are placing more emphasis on one(marriage for instance) more than the other (the person you are with). I did state that, that does not mean that you don't love that person or that you aren't invested in the relationship, BUT it does mean that you obviously are more invested in your own "goal" than you are to be with that person. So I do think you might have taken what I said out of context. I actually was saying exactly what you are saying here. And in terms of compatibility, according to the OP everything is great in the relationship beyond the fact that he won't propose. That is obviously a BIG incompatibility for her, but if everything else is good and she is happy with him overall, then by choosing to leave this relationship she is in fact placing her goal to be married over the commitment she is sharing with this guy. More importantly she is "risking" and chancing the possibility of leaving this relationship and NOT get married by her deadline at all(if she is single again within the next month or so).

 

In terms of "title"--well some people who are in healthy LTR's, that NEVER marry consider their commitment to one another just as special as two married people. I don't necessarily think that being married means that one is more committed than a couple who is committed and has been together for several decades but never went to the courthouse or their church and had a wedding. I think in both cases, if there is a strong level of commitment, understanding, loyalty, and so on, then the commitment(in each individuals eyes) is still a special strong commitment--married or not. But that is beyond the point. I used the "title" of marriage, as a way to illustrate that "BEING married" is more important to her (at this point).

 

No one has suggested that having a goal to get married is wrong. We've only suggested that if she DOES leave because he doesn't marry her, than obviously her goal to get married is more important or outweighs her staying with the man she loves. And if that is true then it is what it is. But for some of us--we simply cannot imagine walking out on the person we love and can't imagine our lives without--because he isn't "ready" for marriage at this point. But again I understand WHY she would leave, and I even advise her to LEAVE, if she truly wants to be married by a certain point within her life.

 

And personally while I would stay if he didn't want to get married to me, but we were committed and loved each regardless, I would have to leave if he did not want children since that is a goal of mine. That is why I said I understand where the OP is coming from. And ultimately I understand that by leaving a loving relationship to pursue children, that I am putting my goal of "children" over my loving relationship. This is what I'm saying the OP will have to do if marriage is important to her. Like I said, to some people marriage is more of a goal than others. Of course I want to get married, but it isn't a dealbreaker if it doesn't happen. The OP must decide how much marriage is important to her OR HOW important is to her.

[lostnscared]

I agree with this. But if she is just about 34 now, and she was to leave, how much longer would it take for her to meet someone, get engaged, have the wedding, THEN get married, then have kids. All of this advice about her leaving and meeting someone on the same page as her is with the assumption that she leaves the relationship and immediately finds another person before she gets any older. But, there are countless stories on ENA of people who haven't met someone in YEARS(after leaving a relationship) OR that took a year or longer to meet someone, and even then, things went at a balanced pace. Even if she left, her "deadline" will still not be met, and there would be no guarantee that she would have children and get married within the next couple of years. I don't think that by pursuing her "goal" to be married, she is hopping around, but I DO think that if her goal to be married is more important than her being with the person she loves(hence her breaking up with and leaving to pursue the goal) than obviously she is on the "prowl"(so to speak) to be married--which confirms in some way what OG has been stating.

 

I don't think the Op is bad either--for going after what she wants. And I completely understand where she is coming from, because if I was in her situation--and I wanted children and my bf did not, then yes I would most likely feel the need to "exit" the relationship.