Advice Needed: Setting internal deadline of boyfriend proposing

[OptomisticGirl]

So same token a 25 year old woman can 'demand' marriage because her biological clock is ticking as well?

[DN]

The demand aspect is that the OP expects her boyfriend to propose by a certain date and if he hasn't she is going to end it. The fact that the demand is unspoken doesn't lessen the fact that it is still demanding. This is classic "if he loves me he should be able to read my mind and if he doesn't it's all his fault" reasoning. That serves no one.

[Applewhite]

OG I don't understand your reasoning. Letting your partner know what your goals are, letting them know how long you are willing to wait while they decide if they agree to make these common goals is not being demanding.

[Applewhite]

The demand aspect is that the OP expects her boyfriend to propose by a certain date and if he hasn't she is going to end it. The fact that the demand is unspoken doesn't lessen the fact that it is still demanding. This is classic "if he loves me he should be able to read my mind and if he doesn't it's all his fault" reasoning. That serves no one.

 

I don't think her decision is about 'faults'. And leaving a partner isn't always about trying to punish them. How/why is it demanding if you leave your partner because you realize you cannot realistically accomplish your own goals and make them common goals in that relationship?

[DN]

If the OP wants to be the sole arbiter of when a proposal is made she should do the proposing.

[lostnscared]

Honestly I think it depends on how much one values marriage, and being married and how much of a goal that is, when it comes to whether or not it's demanding. I understand that everyone has different goals and dealbreakers and that not every situation is a "size fits all". For myself I probably wouldn't leave a relationship--if it was overall happy and loving--if I was told that he was not ready for marriage yet or had no idea when exactly he would be ready. The reason being is because I place more significance in being with that person(in whatever way possible--married or not) than I do on being married. I also believe that is due to the fact, that biologically speaking I'm still young and have plenty of time to worry about fertility and such. But I do have other dealbreakers that would cause me to leave at a "set" timeframe if things didn't change. And I don't consider leaving because of dealbreakers(even in a happy relationship) demanding, I consider it "smart". You don't want to waste, time, emotion and energy, on something that is not meeting your needs and wants.

 

I suspect that my views about this is because I'm a child of divorce and sort of see marriage in a very "mixed" light--on one hand I think it's beautiful and a great way to cement a commitment on the otherhand since a majority of the people that I know are miserable in their marriages it's a hard gamble for me to really place that much value on the idea of being married, moreso than just being in a content and secure relationship.

 

But I can certainly understand the OP's concern if marriage is a goal for her. My deal-breakers are: lack of ambition(bad jobs) and not wanting children. If I was with someone, and my clock was ticking and I realized that I wanted more than one child and time was sensitive then yes as much as I love someone, I would leave. The same thing with a man's career drive. If a man proved that he was not capable of taking care of himself or contributing toward a household than yes I would leave--even if I loved him--because I would not be able to deal with a situation where I was essentially supporting a person with no goals. For me, marriage, is important but not more important than being in a fulfilling loving relationship.

 

So if the OP truly values being married, then yes I think that she should leave--if that goal does not seem promising. But before she does decide to leave, at least communicating with him, is important so that he "knows" beforehand that she IS going to leave if certain conditions aren't met. If marriage is so important to her, then DN has recommended that she propose to him. I think that is a good approach.

[OptomisticGirl]

OG I don't understand your reasoning. Letting your partner know what your goals are, letting them know how long you are willing to wait while they decide if they agree to make these common goals is not being demanding.

 

And that is my point. This shouldn't be a single person's goal. When you become a couple (a real, serious, loving couple) you have to take into effect both people's goals. So if he didn't want to get married for one year after your set time it would be okay to dump him just because he didn't adhere to YOUR timeline? Yeah, that is controlling and demanding. And settin an INTERNAL deadline where you don't tell the other person when you want it, yeah, that's being of the mind he should read your mind.

[lostnscared]

And that is my point. This shouldn't be a single person's goal. When you become a couple (a real, serious, loving couple) you have to take into effect both people's goals. So if he didn't want to get married for one year after your set time it would be okay to dump him just because he didn't adhere to YOUR timeline? Yeah, that is controlling and demanding. And settin an INTERNAL deadline where you don't tell the other person when you want it, yeah, that's being of the mind he should read your mind.

 

Only issue I see with that, is if the other person's goals are sketchy. For instance that other person can't say "when" they want to get married or even "if" they want to get married. Then waiting for that person and coming to a middleground will be difficult. Or if a person has a goal of marriage 5 years from now, but the other person prefers to get married in a year due to the fact that she wants children--then again both people are at a disservice and even if they compromise, one person may walk away feeling "jipped" or "resentful".

 

In an ideal situation, both people should have a similar timeframe or "close-to" similar timeframe about when they desire marriage. But there is a clear difference between one person wanting to wait another year or so, and waiting 5 or so years before marriage. One is a more doable timeframe than the other. If the OP does leave based on not getting married(and they've only been together for 1.5 years), then yes I do think that she could potentially be missing out on a great "future"with him. On the other hand, if he doesn't have a reasonable timeframe for marriage, than by staying with him she could easily find herself in a situation where her goals aren't met at all. All in all, people must protect their "goals" and make sure they are going to happen. And if the OP's goal is strictly to be married, then by leaving before she is older than she'd like to be, she at least ensures that she has some chance to meet someone that is on the same page as her.

[OptomisticGirl]

It still comes accross (to me) that if that's the case the OP can just hop around from relationship to relationship until she finds a guy who is willing ot put a ring on her finger. Is love everyting? No. But one woudl like to think when you want marriage that badly, you try to find it with someone you LOVE, not the first person who puts a ring on your finger in your timeline.

[Applewhite]

It still comes accross (to me) that if that's the case the OP can just hop around from relationship to relationship until she finds a guy who is willing ot put a ring on her finger. Is love everyting? No. But one woudl like to think when you want marriage that badly, you try to find it with someone you LOVE, not the first person who puts a ring on your finger in your timeline.

 

I still don't see how you've arrived at your conclusions. What would YOU suggest op do if her goal is to have a biological child (with her husband) in her 20's or very early 30's for example?

[OptomisticGirl]

She needs to COMMUNICATE with him at the start of the relationship that marriage and children are a big thing for her. Obviously if he doesn't have those same goals she needs to walk away before it gets serious because yes, they don't have the same goals. But to not have the 'do you want marriage and kids' talk until years into the relationship and then one day decide 'if he doesn't marry me by this and this time' it's over, is immature IMO. If a woman wants a proposal that badly, then she needs to do it herself.

[Applewhite]

What if she talks to him and he says I love you but I don't know if I want it now - and I don't know why I don't know. I am not sure when I will know - but I love you more than anything. If I marry anyone I will marry you.

 

What does she do then?

[lostnscared]

What if she talks to him and he says I love you but I don't know if I want it now - and I don't know why I don't know. I am not sure when I will know - but I love you more than anything. If I marry anyone I will marry you.

 

What does she do then?

 

She assesses whether or not she can wait, if she is willing to wait, and how important those "things" are in the context of her relationship. If children and marriage are more important to her than the relationship(as a whole) then she will leave and find someone who is willing to give her those things. But if her relationship, and just being with him, is more important--at the present time being--than marriage and children, then she waits with the knowledge that she may not ever get either.

[Applewhite]

She assesses whether or not she can wait, if she is willing to wait, and how important those "things" are in the context of her relationship. If children and marriage are more important to her than the relationship(as a whole) then she will leave and find someone who is willing to give her those things. But if her relationship, and just being with him, is more important--at the present time being--than marriage and children, then she waits with the knowledge that she may not ever get either.

 

I agree with this. But in addition she also assesses HOW LONG she is willing to wait for him to decide whether her goals are in contradiction to his and whether they can be made common goals. Hence the 'internal deadline' as she calls it. She has EVERY right to this. And I fail to see how this makes her demanding.

 

This is not necessarily a punishment a demand or an ultimatum. This is exercising her right to live her life the way she wants to, without denying herself anything she wants.

[lostnscared]

I agree with this. But in addition she also assesses HOW LONG she is willing to wait for him to decide whether her goals are in contradiction to his and whether they can be made common goals. Hence the 'internal deadline' as she calls it. She has EVERY right to this. And I fail to see how this makes her demanding.

 

This is not necessarily a punishment a demand or an ultimatum. This is exercising her right to live her life the way she wants to, without denying herself anything she wants.

 

I agree.

 

I too think it isn't demanding or an ultimatium, if you are still being with that person and "waiting" but also realizing your own self worth and that even love can't compensate for getting the things that you believe is important for you. I don't think it's demanding--it's just knowing what you want, and realizing that you aren't willing to sacrifice what you "want" and value even for love.

[OptomisticGirl]

What if she talks to him and he says I love you but I don't know if I want it now - and I don't know why I don't know. I am not sure when I will know - but I love you more than anything. If I marry anyone I will marry you.

 

What does she do then?

 

He's still saying he wants to marry her. Just as she has a right to walk away from the situation, he has a right to not know when he will be ready. He could also be telling her this to throw her off WHEN he proposes so it's a surprise. All I'm saying is HIS goal should be considered as well. It's not all about her and her wants.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree with this. But in addition she also assesses HOW LONG she is willing to wait for him to decide whether her goals are in contradiction to his and whether they can be made common goals. Hence the 'internal deadline' as she calls it. She has EVERY right to this. And I fail to see how this makes her demanding.

 

This is not necessarily a punishment a demand or an ultimatum. This is exercising her right to live her life the way she wants to, without denying herself anything she wants.

 

It's demanding when you give the ultimateum of propose to me by this date or I'm out the door. If a woman was not ready for marriage and a man was, would we even be having this conversation? I doubt it. Because why should a woman be pressured into marriage, right? Same goes for a man.

[Batya33]

The difference is he and I talked as a couple. It was not all my deadline, it was his as well. I"m not saying that in leaving a person is demanding something. Saying, "If you don't marry me by such and such time" yes, THAT is demanding. Leaving because you aren't getting a proposal? No, it's not demanding but it sure isn't love either. The fact remains if a woman can walk away from a relationship becuase she hasn't gotten a proposal by her deadline, she doesn't need to be in that relationship to begin with because she isn't in it for the right reasons.

 

And I think a woman who stays past her deadline without a really good reason like "can we wait one more year so that I am finished with school/have tenure/seniority at my job/ can get more counseling for my emotional issues, etc etc" is not in a loving or honest relationship with herself and therefore can't be a healthy partner or be in a healthy relationship.

[OptomisticGirl]

And I think a woman who stays past her deadline without a really good reason like "can we wait one more year so that I am finished with school/have tenure/seniority at my job/ can get more counseling for my emotional issues, etc etc" is not in a loving or honest relationship with herself and therefore can't be a healthy partner or be in a healthy relationship.

 

But who are we as human beings to decide what is a good reason and what isn't? What if a guy had witnessed his parents in a rocky marriage and go through a nasty divorce and REALLY wanted to make sure this relationship was going to survive marriage? Would that be a good enough reason? What if he simply just wanted more time for himself before diving into marriage? All I hear on this baord is preaching about how special marriage is and how it shouldn't be dived into. Bring in a 30 year old woman who wants children and it's okay for her to pressure a guy into it because his reason isn't good enough for her? 0.o

[Batya33]

It's demanding when you give the ultimateum of propose to me by this date or I'm out the door. If a woman was not ready for marriage and a man was, would we even be having this conversation? I doubt it. Because why should a woman be pressured into marriage, right? Same goes for a man.

 

And if he feels pressured by hearing about her goals and what she needs to continue to feel happy and fulfilled then he is probably not ready to commit and should not feel pressured- he should simply accept that they have incompatible goals. Of course her goals should come as no surprise to him - it should be an ongong discussion so that if it comes down to a specific time frame that shouldn't be much of a shock to him.

[OptomisticGirl]

And if he feels pressured by hearing about her goals and what she needs to continue to feel happy and fulfilled then he is probably not ready to commit and should not feel pressured- he should simply accept that they have incompatible goals. Of course her goals should come as no surprise to him - it should be an ongong discussion so that if it comes down to a specific time frame that shouldn't be much of a shock to him.

 

This I can somewhat agree with. Before CS and I even started dating, before we even THOUGHT about dating, we had the marriage and children discussion because to both of us, it was something we wanted. When we became a couple naturally the talk became more serious and I knew (at the time) he would propose within the next year and I was fine with that. I didn't need a specific date for him to do it by and believe me, I may be 22, but Big Ben in London can hear my biological click ticking. There HAS to be communication and compromise. No love is not what makes the world go round but is IS a bases for a good marriage.

[DN]

It's demanding when you give the ultimateum of propose to me by this date or I'm out the door. If a woman was not ready for marriage and a man was, would we even be having this conversation? I doubt it. Because why should a woman be pressured into marriage, right? Same goes for a man.

I agree with this post. I understand about the 'biological clock' but frankly as a man that 'clock' being the sole deciding factor would worry me - I would want to be loved and wanted for who I am not simply as a father for any children she might want.

[Applewhite]

He's still saying he wants to marry her. Just as she has a right to walk away from the situation, he has a right to not know when he will be ready. He could also be telling her this to throw her off WHEN he proposes so it's a surprise. All I'm saying is HIS goal should be considered as well. It's not all about her and her wants.

 

What? I'm sorry I guess I just really don't understand what you are saying.

[Applewhite]

I agree with this post. I understand about the 'biological clock' but frankly as a man that 'clock' being the sole deciding factor would worry me - I would want to be loved and wanted for who I am not simply as a father for any children she might want.

 

I find this quite off topic! It is a separate topic. If this was OP's only concern I am certain she could find some random bum off the street.

[Tanzi]

And I think a woman who stays past her deadline without a really good reason ....

 

What?!?! Is this what a loving relationship should come to? How cold, calculated and mechanical this sounds.