Advice Needed: Setting internal deadline of boyfriend proposing

[Batya33]

No, I did not put my goal above the relationship -the goal was inextricably intertwined with the relationship -marriage and children-without that goal in common there was no healthy loving relationship to pursue. For you it is separate- for me and for many people it isn't. If he had decided he didn't want marriage or children he would no longer be the person I developed the relationship with because his core values would have changed -he would have seemed like a stranger to me and vice versa.

 

Other goals are separate from the relationship so I can understand prioritizing in certain cases -for me that would have had to do with career, for example.

[lostnscared]

No, I did not put my goal above the relationship -the goal was inextricably intertwined with the relationship -marriage and children-without that goal in common there was no healthy loving relationship to pursue. For you it is separate- for me and for many people it isn't. If he had decided he didn't want marriage or children he would no longer be the person I developed the relationship with because his core values would have changed -he would have seemed like a stranger to me and vice versa.

 

Other goals are separate from the relationship so I can understand prioritizing in certain cases -for me that would have had to do with career, for example.

 

Understandable. I suppose that in my case, marriage wasn't really discussed when I met him, because I was 18 years old and the concept of marriage was weird for both of us. That could very well be why to me it's a separate matter. But in the OP's case, he isn't saying that he won't EVER marry her, there just isn't a clear "date" or "time" to when he will. So it isn't as though his core values have changed, it's that he just may not be ready yet. I could understand if he went from telling her he wanted marriage to telling her that he didn't want marriage AT ALL anymore--then yes his core values have changed and he is no longer the same person. But when he himself doesn't feel "ready"(for whatever reason) to get married but STILL wants to eventually then I'd say that it's just a matter of both of them not being clear about WHEN the marriage was suppose to happen. Either way, for me it is separate, and for those my age, it is usually separate(in the beginning stages). I think it's also case of different goals and values. Not everyone has a value of getting married, so they won't intertwine a relationship with marriage. I value marriage but not more than I value other things in the context of a relationship--and those things ARE intertwined in what I look for--marriage just isn't.

[OptomisticGirl]

If marriage is an important goal for you and you go into a relationship wihtout either a) asking the other person if marriage is an option for them or b) knowing they don't know or aren't sure about marriage and you still pursue that relationship, it's really your own fault when you realize you aren't going to get a proposal or get one by your deadline. Communication is lacking and if marriage is such a high priority, then it needs to be mentioned before any kind of seriouness comes into the relationship. For me, marriage and kids were important. I didn't know nor care when it happened (I would have preferred it happened when I was young, like it is going to happen) but if it came when I was 30 so be it. I want 4 kids (or at least 3). Since we are marrying young I can achieve this. I could still do it at 30 but obviously with higher risk the older I got and maybe not the 3 kids I wanted. I got lucky in the sense that CS wanted those things like I did, at the same time as I did. And all this was discussed WAY before we became a couple.

 

When you are in a relationship sometimes you have to change things you want. If CS and I had met later in life (say when I was 30) we would not have 3 kids. CS has told me his cutting off age for having children is 38 and I'm more than fine with that. And since I love the man I would have altered my wants/needs of having 3 kids down to however many we happened to happen. It's fine to want marriage and okay yes, you can even walk away from a relationship if you aren't getting it, but to me, that shows a lack of commitment on the person who walks away part. Marriage is suppose to be about the joining of two people and compromise on both parts. I see no compromise when a woman says 'marry me by such and such date are I'm out'. So no, I don't think a woman who has that mindset is REALLY ready for marriage.

 

I'm like lostnscared, marriage to be, although I have always wanted it, would not be my dealbreaker. Children would be. And even then that goal can be changed to suit both parties.

[lostnscared]

I agree with this. A lot of people enter a relationship without talking about "clear-cut" goals. For myself, I met my boyfriend when I was a senior in highschool, he was in community college--we didn't discuss marriage as a "goal" or children at the time, because when I met him I wasn't looking for those things. I was still a teenager, still living with my parents, and just looking for something casual. Now six years later, YES I do prefer and want those things, but that is because I'm at a difference place in my life then where I was six years ago. This could be the case for the OP's guy, he may want marriage BUT he may not want it now, and for that matter he may not be READY now. Does not mean that he doesn't want it. But it does mean that she may not get married as soon as she would prefer.

I think when you get to a certain age, and a certain point in your life where marriage and children become goals, then you have to make it clear EARLY on that is what you want, and get a gauge of how the person feels about those things and their on timeline of when they would PREFER those things could occur. Because now, OP is in situation where they just are on two different pages, and if she made the choice to leave, she would also be leaving a pretty happy relationship with the risk that she MAY not meet a person for quite a while and meet her "Deadline" any way.

I'm like you OG, I've always know I wanted to be on the younger side when it came to children and even marriage, but if me and my "so" were to break up, I do realize that these goals would have to change. Now that the OP is in this relationship, and loves this person, her goals(if she still wants to be with him) may have to be delayed(so to speak).

[Batya33]

I was always clear. I think a woman who is clear and walks away from a man who changes his mind and can't give her any specific time frame over the next few years when he will be ready is not as committed to the woman as he claims to be and the woman who walks away is being true to her commitment to herself and is walking away from a person who has changed the type of commitment they have to the point of incompatibility. I really cannot stand the presumption that the woman who walks away somehow doesn't value her relationship enough -perhaps some don't - they just want the status or the title - but in my experience that is rare. It's sad how some of the posters here devalue the marital commitment and criticize women who would end a relationship that wasn't headed towards marriage. Obviously that's just my personal opinion, I'm just surprised to see the extent of the criticism and the devaluing of the marital commitment.

[lostnscared]

Well your clear--but was the OP? You'd be surprised at the amount of people who enter relationships without being clear about what they want or NOT clear enough. The topic of marriage may have been approached but obviously not with the sort of communication that was needed for her to determine early on whether or not she should continue to be with him. I see nothing wrong when a person has more of a commitment to himself/herself that they walk away from a relationship due to personal goals that wouldn't be fulfilled with that particular person. My only point, as well as other people have pointed out--is that for some of us it would be hard to walk away from an otherwise good and healthy relationship even if we disagreed on that HUGE core issue. But again I did admit, and someone else did as well, that this is because we don't necessarily value the commitment of being married anymore than we value the commitment of being with our "so" even if we didn't get married.

I don't think that anyone has stated that by walking away they don't value their relationship, but that if they DO walk away, they obviously value their commitment to their "goal" more than they do that particular relationship. Hence how they were able to walk away.

I don't think anyone has intentionally criticized this woman or any woman that has walked away. Most of us have agreed that if it came to us being with a person who didn't share a very important value of ours(for instance, children for me) then WE would walk away. We're only pointing out that if it was not communicated, and if he DOES want it, but just doesn't have a timeline, then by walking away her goal still may be unfulfilled by the age that she wanted it to be fulfilled by anyway. How has anyone devalued marital commitment? I think it's more along the lines of people having different perspectives about "marriage" in the context of a committed loving relationship, more so than devaluing it. Most people have understood that to the OP, and to yourself, and to others marriage is important and Like I said, a page ago, if the OP has a goal to get married, and that is a LARGE goal for her, then it is understandable and reasonable and smart that she would leave a situation that doesn't lead up to that goal. Most of us have agreed that if we had a goal for something(children for instance) that we would leave a relationship that wouldn't lead to that.

[Batya33]

I agree with this but again I am not saying a person should be "more" committed to themselves than the relationship but if they're less committed to themselves it's typically a recipe for disaster especially if it means giving up a goal as tremendous as marriage (and family).

 

I think all people who desire marriage/family have the responsibility to be clear and direct about this goal as soon as it looks like a relationship is potentially serious. Even if the conversation is uncomfortable or unromantic. With me it was easy because most men didn't want to date me- they just wanted to marry me (lol)- so the vast majority of the time they raised the marriage/family question early on.

[lostnscared]

I agree with this but again I am not saying a person should be "more" committed to themselves than the relationship but if they're less committed to themselves it's typically a recipe for disaster especially if it means giving up a goal as tremendous as marriage (and family).

I think all people who desire marriage/family have the responsibility to be clear and direct about this goal as soon as it looks like a relationship is potentially serious. Even if the conversation is uncomfortable or unromantic. With me it was easy because most men didn't want to date me- they just wanted to marry me (lol)- so the vast majority of the time they raised the marriage/family question early on.

 

I agree with this. I already told my bf that kids are a dealbreaker for me. It's interesting the amount of people that will sacrifice a goal and stay with someone for many years--eventually resentment builds up. Reminds me of "He's not into you" and Jennifer Anniston who wanted marriage but settled with living with her so for ll years and became angry in the end because he wouldn't marry her.

 

For myself I never raised the topic of marriage or children early into the relationship because I was 17/18 and it seemed silly at the time. But now, if I were to ever break up with my "so", then I would definitely make it clear and early on that I was interested in children and marriage as well so that it is known by that person and we are on the same page. But if a person is in a situation like mine--where they were young or where at the time those particular things weren't a goal, then they can easily find themselves in a position like the OP.

[OptomisticGirl]

Didn't Jennifer Aniston's guy propose to her in the end? Been awhile since I saw that movie.

[lostnscared]

Didn't Jennifer Aniston's guy propose to her in the end? Been awhile since I saw that movie.

 

Yes he did, but she HAD to leave him, for a good amount of time before he realized that he needed to propose. The point is that for ELEVEN years they lived together, and she was very unhappy with not being married but stayed anyway. There are two ways to look at it: EVENTUALLY he did propose to her just not on her timeline--so I suppose that can give the OP hope OR you can look at it as she wasting several years with a person who MAY never have married her had she not eventually took a stand for what she wanted.

 

Either way, it was clear in that case that her bf had a completely different perception on marriage altogether.

I don't necessarily devalue marriage or the commitment that being married entails, but I admit that because so many of those that I KNOW that are married, that DID divorce, and how it effected me that it's made me certainly change the way I perceive such a commitment-to the point where as long as I with my "so" being married or not being married wouldn't be so much of a dealbreaker(at least not now). But for me, children is a dealbreaker, and I would not stay with someone who did not want children.

[sweetpea03]

I definitely think communication is important. And think that if a man can't set a time line, then it is best for the woman to walk away if she wants marriage and he can't set a time for it. She should have enough self-worth to be able to walk away if the man doesn't know when or if he will commit. The couple needs to be on the same page about major goals/issues and if they aren't then there will be problems. Personally, I think it is sad that a woman would cling to a man who isn't sure if he will marry her or not, when she really wants to be married. I think the woman would be better off, if she holds her head high and walks away. There are men out there who WANT to get married and are happy to propose. There are other great matches out there and there is not only just one person for us. If there was only one, then almost no one would find them with all of the people there are in this world. I, myself, would not stay with a man for years if he couldn't figure out if he was going to marry me or not. Marriage is important to me and I'm glad that my boyfriend feels the same way. I know he wants to propose, though we are waiting a little bit longer.

[lostnscared]

I agree. I think that if marriage is that important to someone then it is sad to stay with that particular person and "risk" never getting married. But if marriage is not very important--or as important as other things--then I suspect that this is why a person wouldn't walk a way. My bf's aunt has been engaged to her fiance for ten years--many of us are beginning to think he played her. She won't leave though. And I think that's sad because she nagged him about getting engaged and getting married--and he DID finally propose to her but only to continue playing charades.

 

I've said it before, but I prefer to have children younger, if my "so" wasn't prepared to have kids within the next 4 years (when I'm 27) then I would leave him--with no problem, because as much I love him, having kids is something I've always wanted. With marriage, I would stay, because I never was that big on marriage in the first place.

[Circe]

I would also wonder(as OG has said here) what is the more important goal? To get married, or to be with that person that you love?

 

By all means, wonder away. For some people - being in a marriage is the most important goal. It might not be yours. It might not be mine. That doesn't mean it's not a perfectly legitimate goal. It doesn't mean they don't love their partner. And if it is their most important goal - they shouldnt be judged negatively for it (it's not a harmful goal, it's not a cruel goal - it's just an honest one that prizes certain things over others). And they should be entitled to act in a way that achieves it - provided of course that they are honest with the other person.

 

So I think - whether a girl proposes to her guy - or whether she tells him its over if there is no marriage by X date (which I agree is passive - I'd never tell someone to do something that I could just do myself - ie propose) then it's over - that's fine.

 

I think completely surprising him by never mentioning anything about it until an internal deadline pops up would be silly (just because it's so unlikely to lead to a good result). But having a deadline if your most important goal is marriage - is fine. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't mean you don't love your partner.

[Circe]

No, I did not put my goal above the relationship -the goal was inextricably intertwined with the relationship -marriage and children-without that goal in common there was no healthy loving relationship to pursue. For you it is separate- for me and for many people it isn't. If he had decided he didn't want marriage or children he would no longer be the person I developed the relationship with because his core values would have changed -he would have seemed like a stranger to me and vice versa.

 

Other goals are separate from the relationship so I can understand prioritizing in certain cases -for me that would have had to do with career, for example.

 

I agree with the sentiment here as well (even though I think it's also legitimate to just make marriage your foremost goal AND view it separately to the relationship - provided you marry someone you love at the end).

 

For me, I proposed when I knew he was the one I wanted to invest my whole heart and soul in forever. And if he had not felt the same way about me (and marriage is a symbol of this, a declaration of this .. a legal and social commitment to this etc) then I would have waited a while (because he waited a while for me and I think that's fair enough - two people aren't necessarily going to be at the same point at the same time - but I would not have waited forever because I would not have been able (personally) to give my whole heart and soul without feeling that he was someone who felt the same way about me. I would have inevitably have held back. And I want a lifelong relationship where I don't hold back.

[lostnscared]

If you read any of my other posts in this thread, you'll see I made the exact same statement as to what I've bolded--that it's up to the person, their goal, and their commitment to that goal. I also stated that it's an understandable reason to leave, that it is about self-protection and that I would do the same if a goal of mine was not being fulfilled in a relationship. No one has really criticized this "goal". Most posters(myself included) have stated that if we were backed into a corner where we felt we needed to leave for a similar goal as the OP's we would do it. We also(many of us) have agreed that if it her most important goal, leaving is in her best interest.

 

The only thing I pointed out with the statement you have "quoted" is what is more important to her (the OP) here: marriage or being with the guy she is with right now--that she loves? If marriage is more important I advised her to leave. If just being with the guy(married or not) is more important I advised her to stay and try to work around a timeline that works for the both of them. Either way in some context she needs to figure the more important priority. And no matter the choice she makes, she isn't wrong in either(I think most of us agree with that).

 

I also stated that I'm sure she does love him, but depending on her actions(leaving or staying) indicates what she is more invested in emotionally: her commitment to marriage and to herself, or to her partner and the relationship they have.

 

 

 

With everything else you've said I agree.

[lostnscared]

I think Bataya does have a similar sentiment as MANY woman have about marriage--that it is a complete package. Most do not view it separetely. I realize the only reason I do, is because when I met my "so", I was at a point in my life where thinking about marriage and children was silly. I was thinking about college, and my career, and doing all the fun things that dorm life would entail. Once I got into a relationship and got committed to him and fell in love with him that is when I BEGAN considering marriage and children. But it wasn't until two years ago(when I was a senior in college) that I realized I WANTED to get married to him and have kids. These goals weren't communicated in the beginning because they weren't important to either of us in the beginning. Matter of fact as a teenager, I didn't really think about marriage that much--or having a dream wedding, it just wasn't a huge deal of mine. Having children became a bigger deal when I worked with children as a preschool assistant at 17(around the same time I met my bf). Eventually, overtime children and marriage became more important. Now within these last two years since I made the decision that I wanted to get married, I've seen several marriages in extended and in my immediate family go terribly wrong. I've went through my own emotional, and financial struggles, and we've overcame a ton of relationship obstacles. It was through this that I determined that married or not, I would be "okay" as long as I was with him, but I did PREFER marriage, just not more than I did being with him. The only "thing" that I realize would break us up, is if he changed his mind about children--because that is something that I do want and have always wanted--even when I met him at 17/18. Anyway I guess my point is that I can see both Bataya, the OP's, and my perspective about this and none of our perspectives are wrong. I suspect the bigger issue here is that the op and her guy need to learn how to communicate.

[Circe]

This is true lostnscared.. but I do get a feeling from many posts on this thread that there is something "wrong" with a woman if she would rather get married than be with the person she loves. I know people are saying there's nothing wrong with it.. (well some people are - I'm not sure at all that everyone agrees with that) .. but I feel like there is still some moral judgment being cast here that you are a better person if you pick love without marriage over leaving love in the hope of marriage.

 

And that's putting it very simply.. its of course more complicated than that. But you know what I'm trying to say. And I don't like that we feel that way. It's like we've (society these days) reified love to all our detriment.

[Circe]

Yes, I see what you mean. If I had met my husband when I was a lot younger and PRIOR to some unpleasant relationship experiences then I wouldnt have felt like I needed both of us to intend for this to be forever before I could let go and give my everything again. If I'd met him at 16 or even 19 it would have been different..

[lady00]

I guess I don't really see how an internal deadline can serve anyone. I think a couple needs to be agree on a plan and a timeframe for marriage (if they both want to be married to each other of course) and then stick to that. If one or both people change their minds, then communicate that and stay or move on depending on the outcome of the conversation. No complaining, no demanding, no whining, no stamping of feet necessary. I understand that relationships are emotional and that complicates having these discussions but I don't see any other way of doing it.

 

On a separate issue, if someone wants marriage it doesn't mean they can't fall in love with someone (and really truly be in love) who does not want to marry them or isn't ready to marry them within the time that they feel comfortable. It just means they are probably incompatible and hopefully will both realize that before they fall in love so that the ending doesn't hurt nearly as much. Love isn't the be all and end all of relationships. Just because you are wholly in love doesn't mean it is always a good idea to stick around. Other factors come into play and ignoring certain things because you are in love could lead to a world of unhappiness in he long run.

[Batya33]

An internal deadline works well when the person who wants marriage knows he/she has to promise himself that he won't stick around past the deadline because it's so hard for many people to walk away in that situation -it's a way to self-discipline so that the long term goal isn't sacrificed for a short term one or in favor of rationalizations. In addition of course the couple needs to decide together on a plan but if one person is ambivalent early on, then the other person might need to have an internal deadline so that when the subsequent conversation happens down the road she/he already has adjusted as best as she can to the possibility of having to walk.

[ut804]

I don't think there's anything wrong with an internal deadline as long as it's reasonable.

 

The OP is in her 30s and (as everyone else is saying) has a biological clock ticking. and what if she wants multiple children? you can't (well most often) have a few children all at once. once you have your first child you have to wait at least a year or 2 to have another one, and then another year or two to have another one. and you shouldn't start having kids the day after you get married. it's a long process!! so i understand why she would be in a rush.

 

it's not selfish either. if that's what you want in life (marriage and kids) then that's fine! you just need to be on the same page with your partner.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't think there's anything wrong with an internal deadline as long as it's reasonable.

 

The OP is in her 30s and (as everyone else is saying) has a biological clock ticking. and what if she wants multiple children? you can't (well most often) have a few children all at once. once you have your first child you have to wait at least a year or 2 to have another one, and then another year or two to have another one. and you shouldn't start having kids the day after you get married. it's a long process!! so i understand why she would be in a rush.

 

it's not selfish either. if that's what you want in life (marriage and kids) then that's fine! you just need to be on the same page with your partner.

 

You don't have to wait 2 years to have another kid. I have known parents who once their child was 6 months old started trying for another baby.

[lostnscared]

I don't think anyone has implied that at all. I think(or at least this was my intent) that the thought process was that if you are in love, and are happy in the relationship, and the ONLY issue that is bothersome is that he is still unsure about marriage, than to evaluate how important being married is versus staying with your "so" who you love and are happy with despite that issue. Depending on which is more of a priority--that is the decision you make. Of course love isn't the be all and end all of relationships, BUT it's certainly a factor to consider if she is happy with him and can't picture her life without him(even if that meant not being married to him). I don't think that she should *ignore* his indecisiveness at all, BUT she should certainly consider her options--if she leaves what she "loses", if she "stays" what she loses. If she can accept not being married, if she can accept losing him, etc. If she feels that she would be resentful later on because he did not marry her, then obviously her best bet would be to leave. But if she *feels* that in her heart, she could overcome him NEVER marrying her, and still be "okay" then staying might not cause her unhappiness. Like I've said before, it's about priorities, and what is MOST important to her in the grand scheme of things. As I've said before, marriage is not more important to me, at this point in time, as is being with my "so" because I simply cannot picture or imagine a life without him in it. But that is because marriage simply isn't the biggest priority to me, especially coming from a background where my parents were recently divorced, and had a very dysfunctional marriage.

 

The OP will have to determine what is more important to her at this point: marriage, or this relationship--or both. If she's always valued and desired to be married, then yes I agree staying will lead to a world of hurt.

 

But I agree with you about the internal deadline. I honestly think that she just needs to talk with him, and see where his mind is at, and when he *realistically* can see himself proposing. Based on his response, she either leaves right then or there, or she stays.

[Batya33]

You're again assuming that the loving feelings and the relationship can be kept separate and compartmentalized from the marriage goal -for some people it can so it can be a question of priorities -for others like myself and my husband the main purpose of getting back together was to see if we should get married. It wasn't spoken as formally as that when we decided to get back together but it was 100% understood. If he had left me because I didn't want to marry him by a certain time it wouldn't have been because he was prioritizing marriage over what we had together -it would have been because he realized we didn't have what he thought we had together -two people building a relationship with the goal of marriage and family.

[lostnscared]

You're again assuming that the loving feelings and the relationship can be kept separate and compartmentalized from the marriage goal -for some people it can so it can be a question of priorities -for others like myself and my husband the main purpose of getting back together was to see if we should get married. It wasn't spoken as formally as that when we decided to get back together but it was 100% understood. If he had left me because I didn't want to marry him by a certain time it wouldn't have been because he was prioritizing marriage over what we had together -it would have been because he realized we didn't have what he thought we had together -two people building a relationship with the goal of marriage and family.

 

I agree, and again that is why I said--she needs to figure out what her priorities are and what is most important to her. If her goal is to be married, than obviously he is not the one, since he apparently has no idea when he'll be ready. My only point was that depending on what she VALUES and WANTS, she will make a decision that reflects that. And when making a decision, I suspect that she WILL consider how happy she is in a relationship, if she can deal with him NOT marrying her, the importance/significance of marriage to her and so on. I understand that most people associate marriage and a loving relationship as one in the same. But there are those, who separate them. And from reading the OP's post it is difficult to gauge if she sees marriage and love(relationship) as one in the same, or if she is separating the two. In my honest opinion if she DID see marriage and love as the same, then ultimately the moment he told her "he didn't know" when he wanted to get married, is the moment she should have left, because it was at that moment that he made it clear that he is not on the same page as she. Staying with the "hope" that he'll come around is useless IMO. But if she sees these two as separate things, then it makes a little more sense--to me--that she is still with him despite him not marrying her. Which is why I stated my own PERSONAL feelings about it.

Of course in the long run, she'll have to live with her decision.

I am not 34, wanting children, and wanting marriage badly, so I suppose it's difficult for me to give her unbiased advice, or to understand where she is coming from. My perspective is coming from my own views, and with the understanding that if she leaves--she should leave right away. Not stay with an "internal" deadline.