Question for women who have been engaged and/or married...

[thejigsup]

When a man tells you the relationship is starting to smother him and that he is not sure of marriage anymore, a woman's heart atrophies into a microscopic little ball the immediately kicks you, or any thought of you, out! If you wanted to hurt a woman any more, you would use an actual knife. Will she take you back? I don't know. I wouldn't.

[Tell Me Why]

You're right, she has every right not to take me back. Who knows what will happen. My feelings were temporary. I worked through them and sorted them out. I never fell out of love with her, I never not wanted to marry her, I was just nervous about how fast things were moving and I wanted to slow them down. I still want to get married. I wish I had never felt the way I did and hurt her, but it happened and I have to live with it.

[Batya33]

It's not how you felt that was the real problem but how you chose to share it with her. Being open is often confused with being honest - so if the feelings were only temporary as you say, you could have worked them through on your own or with a therapist, and not subjected her to your doubts until you resolved what you wanted to do permanently.

[abitbroken]

When a man tells you the relationship is starting to smother him and that he is not sure of marriage anymore, a woman's heart atrophies into a microscopic little ball the immediately kicks you, or any thought of you, out! If you wanted to hurt a woman any more, you would use an actual knife. Will she take you back? I don't know. I wouldn't.

 

yes women will withdraw - it is not all just men.

 

I was with a man for 12 years that thought that "maybe marriage doesn't work" because his friends were all divorced etc. for some reason I thought i could overcome that and in some sense I had, because after 8 years of being together, he proposed. However, when things turned from thinking about marriage "as a philoshopy" and not being sure about it versus being not sure about being married TO ME - it became a whole different ballgame. He pulled that before the wedding. But he went through with it. But then a year after the marriage he started holding it over my head again.

 

Once you tell a woman that you don't want to live with HER or be married to HER versus talking about the instutition in general, you lose her. It is like telling a guy he is a loser, a good for nothing, or that you like being with him but don't want to be seen in public with him.

[Tell Me Why]

I never said I didn't want to marry her. I said I was nervous about it. I still want to marry her. I guess to women nerves equals “I don't want to ever marry you ” I know if roles were reversed I wouldn't leave her. But I guess women are different. I should just worked through my feelings with a therapist instead if telling her flat out

[spinstermanquee]

To a lot of people, saying "I'm not sure" equals "I can't handle this," "I don't really know what the f I want," "I'm a wuss." And no kidding, that can happen with both men and women. It's all a question of HOW those doubts are put forth as to whether it's interpreted as a character flaw or a normal/oft experienced temporary issue.

 

Just a thought here... -w

[Tell Me Why]

To a lot of people, saying "I'm not sure" equals "I can't handle this," "I don't really know what the f I want," "I'm a wuss." And no kidding, that can happen with both men and women. It's all a question of HOW those doubts are put forth as to whether it's interpreted as a character flaw or a normal/oft experienced temporary issue.

 

Just a thought here... -w

 

I think mine was just a normal/oft experienced temporary issue as you call it. Like I said, when I just simply told her that I was nervous, she was fine, it wasn't until I told her the other things like how I was depressed, how I felt smothered, that totally pushed her away. But even those were temporary and I no longer felt that shortly after I told her those things. I worked through my feelings and they faded.

 

I would marry her tomorrow and all I can do is just think about her every second of the day. I feel like If I truly was unsure about marriage and was scared, I wouldn't be thinking these things right now. I know I want to marry her. If she came back to me tomorrow and said lets get married today, I would do it!

 

You mentioned that a grand gesture MAY be in order, and I've had a lot things running through my mind. My idea is probably stupid, and might completely backfire, but I was thinking of giving her a lot of space for a while to think things over and giving myself space from her to work on myself, and then maybe meet up with her and propose to her again with a new ring. I know, this is probably a BAD idea, but I just want her back, but I know you can't make someone love you. Its up to her whether she wants to give me yet another chance. Its only been 2 and half weeks and all I can think of is reconciliation.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Dude, you've gotten some really great advice from the posters. I know you're looking for advice from women, but I can't help it. If she's been contacting you and been vacillating between crying and apologizing for her behavior, and then being angry at your recent behavior...believe me, you've got her. She still loves you. She wouldn't be doing this if she were truly done with you.

 

Screw the space idea. The time for wendymg's grand gesture is right now. She's dithering and you can pull her back. Stop being standoffish and NC. If you love this woman, let her know it. Throw your guts on the table. Let it all out. Let yourself be vulnerable. Pick a grand gesture. Do it. Tell her how much you love her. Tell her how stupid you were. Tell her how sorry you are for hurting her. Let yourself cry. Let her see you cry. Make her feel the deepest, heartfelt emotions you have for her. You've hurt her, and she needs to see this proof.

 

I wouldn't re-propose to her at your first meeting. Think along the lines of wendymg's chick flick idea. Something that will "wow" her. Sweep her off of her feet. Ask for her to come back. Don't grovel or beg, though - she may still want her pound of flesh for a while and nobody is attracted to clingy begging. Your mantra should be to show her how much you really care and you want to make her a clear offer of your intentions to be with her. Of course if she brings up the marriage issue, then tell her you'll marry her on the spot.

 

I know you've got her...just go get her. Don't wait!

 

Ladies, am I wrong?

[Tell Me Why]

I just don't know what to do...some are telling me to go NC and let myself heal and give her space, now you're telling me to just go out and get her. I'm really confused. If she doesn't want to be me with, how could a "grand gesture" magically get her back? Truth is, I would marry her on the spot, today if I had the chance. I told her the last time we spoke that I wanted to marry her, but she still insisted thats she feels the way she feels and right now, its best for her not to be in a relationship with me.

 

I think going out and trying to get her to come back would appear needy and desperate, don't you think?

 

Today she texted me, then emailed me asking if I was going to Texas (I had to go for work). Her email said I shouldn't go because of the swine flu. We had been NC for 4 days and I broke it by responding telling her that I already went to Texas and came back and that I didn't have the swine flu. That's all I said. She replies back with "Ok thats good".

 

What is her motive here? Why is she emailing me acting concerned about my well-being? Part of me wants to see her and beg for her to take me back, but another part of me knows I can't do this and that we both need some time to think about things.

[oldenoughtoknow]

The NC thing works if she's still reeling from the hurt. It gives her time to reflect and miss you (or not). It seems apparent to me that she's done this (although she may not be completely finished) and the important fact is that she misses you. If she reflected and thought "what an * * * * * * * , I can't believe I wasted all those years with him," etc., she wouldn't be contacting you at all. She's asking you about your trip and is worried about swine flu because she still loves you. Period.

 

At the same time, she's still hurt and apprehensive from your earlier disclosures. She needs reassurance. She needs reaffirmation. She needs a grand gesture.

 

Do not, under any circumstances, grovel or beg. Lure her. Get her to meet with you...think up a mundane reason. I did this once before by telling an ex GF that I wanted talk with her to get closure after our breakup and asked her out for a quick drink. It worked (okay, not long term, but for a few months). You have a bigger fish to fry because this is your ex fiance and she's hurt from your actions. When you have the date set, that's when you show up with a limo (or whatever). Sweep her off her feet. Then, roll up the driver's window and start talking to her. Tell her how you feel. If you can get her to feel the depth of your emotions, the depth of your love for her, that's when her defenses, apprehensions and resentments will fade and her heart will melt. She will be yours again.

 

Don't over complicate this either. Don't think that you have to have a grand speech or the perfect words. Women know we (men) aren't perfect. What she wants is to see you open your heart. Be vulnerable. Don't be afraid to shed a tear. State your offer and accept her reply. Only if you grovel and beg will you appear needy and desperate. You've mentioned her comments that she doesn't like your NC. That tells me she's ready and she's waiting.

[Tell Me Why]

Wow, I have some thinking to do. On one hand, I'd like to do what you're suggesting and sweep her off her feet, but on the other hand, I'm thinking that is something you only see in the movies and this could backfire. I don't want to push her away any further.

 

I keep thinking of the Sex and the City movie. (Yes, I'm a guy and I watched it). Big ditches Carrie at the alter (something FAR WORSE than what I ever did to my ex). Then he shows up at their old apartment some time later, he proposes, and she agrees to marry him. If only I could just show up at her place and have her take me back that easily!

[oldenoughtoknow]

Just from what you've told me, that's what I'd do. She's showing you some clear signs that she's still interested, she still cares for you and loves you. I always try to think of what the other person experienced to figure out where they're at (I know we're talking about women, but it still kinda works in this case). I think indigo777 gave you a great rundown on her emotion/thought process.

 

Engaged. Wow, ecstatically happy. Open heart, warm, fuzzy feelings.

 

Fiance gets cold feet. Okay. Listen, try to be supportive, keep the long term view, wait it out.

 

Fiance feels depressed, smothered and unsure of commitment. Ouch! What happened? Where did this come from? Do I even know this person?

 

Engagement off. What the f***!?!

 

Counseling couldn't get her there. Her well ran dry. She needs something more from you. She needs a serious, vulnerable, openhearted reaffirmation. Something that will show her that you had a momentary screw up, but you're back for good, stronger than ever, and you're very sorry for causing her such pain. This is one of those turning point moments that great relationships work through, recover from, and come back even stronger than before.

 

You know, there's a reason they call them chick flicks. Women really like those big romantic gestures from the men they love - and no, it doesn't have to be perfect, like it always is in the movies. I think that's why she's complaining about your NC. She's wanting this from you. She doesn't want you to go away. She wants you to do something to open her heart back up to you. She wants it and she's waiting. I'm thinking, in your case, that NC and waiting too long may actually kill it. It will prove to her that you're not relationship ready, or maybe just the wrong person for her. She'll be forced to move on.

 

And you know, if you try it and she does reject you, what have you lost? I think you'll gain all the way around. For one thing, her rejection right now doesn't mean she won't change her mind in the future (providing you don't beg or do anything else stupid) You'll probably have faster closure because of this (seemingly) ultimate rejection. You'll know that you've given it your best shot, and there's nothing else you can do. And that will give you opportunity to work on the other personal issues you've mentioned that much sooner - which you should do in either case. A winner with no downside.

 

BTW, where did the women in this post go? I think the other posters were all giving you outstanding insight and advice. I'm curious about their opinions.

[Tell Me Why]

After her emails and text today, I get a call from her as I was driving home from work. I didn't answer and she left no voicemail. It kills me wondering what she was calling about. I am so conflicted, part of me needs space to heal, but another part of me doesn't want to push her away even further by doing NC.

 

I might check in with her next week and just send her a message that says "Hope you are doing well" or something like that.

 

As for the gesture, what do you think I should do? Just meet with her and pour my heart out to her (without begging)?

[oldenoughtoknow]

If you don't hear from her for a week, a quick message sounds like a good idea. Ideally, I would wait for her to call you again. That way, you'll know she's already been thinking about you - she won't feel blindsided, unable to talk, etc. Then, see which side of the pendulum she's on. If she's angry, don't do anything. If she's checking in/sad/upset/apologetic/etc., bring up the idea of meeting. See where the conversation goes, feel her out and think of something that you know she would meet you over - maybe something financial (like a joint cell phone bill, etc.) or something like my previous suggestion.

 

As for the gesture, I couldn't really tell you. You know her, and you have a history together. What type of person is she? Would she love an arm full of flowers (better make it her favorite type and color)? Bring those and an expensive bottle of wine over to her house. Did she have a favorite food that you could bring over to her house as take out, with a linen table cloth, nice plates, etc.? Is there a romantic restaurant she's always wanted to try? You can talk to the maitre d' beforehand and find a secluded table? Would she like a limo ride? Or maybe a romantic afternoon picnic in a park? Setup something lavish and have a friend watch over it while you pick her up. Think of some little thing she's commented on in the past. Think of a scene that grabbed you from a chick flick and personalize it. It has to be an event - not a gift (like jewelry), a fancy hotel room or an engagement ring (both way too presumptive). You want to give her a big, initial "wow" experience that places you both in a secluded space so you can talk.

 

I wouldn't start out with pouring your heart out. Don't worry, after seeing the gesture, she'll know exactly what you're doing. Start with small talk. Ask her how she's been, etc. Your demeanor is important. Don't be too casual or standoffish, and don't gush either. It's okay if you're a little nervous or clumsy. Just look at her with a knowing smile. Make her feel that you're looking at your most prized possession - the love of your life. You want to melt her heart. After some small talk, tell her how much you've missed her. Tell her you can't believe what a fool you were. Tell her how sorry you are for hurting her. Tell her how much you love her. I think you'll know what to say.

 

I'd keep two things in mind here. First, the goal is to get her back. The happy ending here is for the two of you to be embracing, quivering and whimpering, with open hearts and discussing your wondrous future together. Second, to get there, you have to closely monitor where she is during the talk. Don't get too far in front of her, or she'll recoil. If she pulls back from something you just said, back off a bit. Tease her over something. Recall a great time you guys had together. If she's with you and receptive, keep your talk moving towards the goal - reaffirm your love for her, and reassure her that you won't make this mistake ever again.

 

Those are my thoughts. Oh, where is wendymg for this one?

[Tell Me Why]

Well I caved and sent her a text tonight just saying "I hope you are doing well". I didn't get a resposne so of course I am upset and hurt. I know I shouldn't obsess over it but I can't help it. I wouldn't have contacted her had she not contacted me yesterday. I am just wondering why she didn't respond. It makes me wonder whether or not to proceed with a grand gesture.

[Tell Me Why]

And what do you know...about 10 minutes after my last post she calls me! She tells me that this is hard for her and that she misses me and misses seeing me and talking to me BUT, she can't help the way she feels about the relationship. She said that too many things happened in our relationship that she can't get over...the whole thing with my cold feet being just one of them. She said this isn't what she wants and wishes things didn't work out this way, which doesn't make sense to me because if she didn't want this, why is she putting herself through it?

 

It was all just confusing to me and made me cry on the phone with her. I told her about how its hard when she says things like "I miss you" and that it is very hard to talk to her or see her at this point. She still doesn't understand how I could do NC and not have her in my life.

 

I'm just confused. On one hand she says she misses me and on then she says she still feels the same way about the relationship. I know if I don't do NC right now and keep talking to her, things will only get worse.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Yes, she is confused. She still loves you (at some level), and she wants things to work out and be like they were before and she wants to get over what happened. But she can't. But still, she doesn't want you to have NC. She needs you to fix this, and you can. Keep the faith.

 

First, you can't have conversations like that on the phone. Don't do that anymore. It sounded like the content was okay, but great words and emotional expressions will not have an impact if the person isn't right in front of you. It's too easy to stay distanced. She needs to be right next to you, looking at you, smelling you, feeling you, experiencing you...so that when the right words are said, you can touch each other and embrace each other. No one's heart is going to open back up over the phone.

 

This morass needs a leader and you need to be it. She's vacillating. She wants to forgive you and put everything behind her. But there's a scar on her heart. She's withdrawn to protect herself from being hurt again. She can't get there on her own. That's the brilliance of wendymg's advice. The grand, romantic gesture is exactly what she needs. She needs to be swept off her feet.

 

Here's my latest thought/strategy. Spend the next one to two weeks with NC. If she calls, pickup and be pleasant, but keep the conversation short. Remember, this will not be fixed over the phone, so don't waste your great thoughts, feelings and words in a medium that won't give them maximum impact.

 

Use this time to plan your grand gesture. Remember, it doesn't have to be movie perfect. After your years together, you should be able to come up with something that will take her breath away. Lead her. Don't look needy and desperate. Look at her with a knowing smile. Keep planted in the back of your mind that the two of you are going to be together. Period. She'll feel it and respond. She wants to be with you...all you have to do is take her.

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks. Its just so hard. You think she wants to be with me but some of her words say otherwise, but then other words like "I miss you" and "I don't want this" implies that she does wish to be with me. I am definitely going to do NC for the next week or two. I need to get my own life back together and work on myself. At the same time, I do want her back and wish this was much easier. Its so frustrating because part of me feels like she will stand by her word that she doesn't want to be in this relationship and that my gesture won't accomplish anything.

 

On the other hand, if I don't do something, I might regret it later. The biggest hurdle is for her to forget about the past. I know that is extremely hard. She is focusing on all the negative parts of our relationship and she can't trust that she won't be hurt again. But she still loves me and wants me in her life.

 

Our relationship wasn't terrible, we fought over stupid things a lot and the biggest problem was communication and expressing our feelings. I've improved so much in that department and feel like I would be a much better partner if we gave it another go. I was so honest on the phone last night and I told her I did want to marry her and would in a heartbeat.

 

She still brought up my cold feet episode and compared it to how she feels now saying, "You can't help the way you felt and now I can't help the way I feel". The difference is, I didn't want to end the relationship because of those feelings, I wanted to work things out. She wants to end it, and I can only respect her decision. She is being honest.

 

I know I need to take some time and work on myself. I have a lot of improving to do. This time apart as made me realize that some things about myself did not make me a good life partner, like my insecurities, my lack of self-esteem and confidence in myself, and my depression. I need to work on being happy with myself first. That will be my priority right now, but in the back of my mind will always be the possibility of reconciliation.

 

I just wish it was three months from now and I knew what was going to happen! I love her so much and its so hard thinking that this could really be the end! Another part of me feels like it isn't over between us and that this is just another chapter in our great love story (I know that sounds cheesy but I can't help how strong I feel about her!)

[spinstermanquee]

ooh. richpart. i think you really know the ladies ;-)

 

please tell me why... stop vacillating and start deciding. There is a potential lifelong lovely marriage in the balance... and you are the only one who can make it happen! Let her go, or craft your future NOW...

[Tell Me Why]

ooh. richpart. i think you really know the ladies ;-)

 

please tell me why... stop vacillating and start deciding. There is a potential lifelong lovely marriage in the balance... and you are the only one who can make it happen! Let her go, or craft your future NOW...

 

Trust me, I'd love to make it happen, but I don't know how!! I am getting too many mixed signals. She says she misses me, but then says that there are too many things from our past she can't get over and doesn't see a future. Then I'm thinking if I pull some grand gesture, it will just push her away further! This is so frustrating because I don't know whether to give her a lot more space and not contact her, or to reach out and try to reconcile with her now! I don't know how to proceed at the moment!

[Tell Me Why]

Just a quick update: She called again the day after she told me she missed me. I didn't answer and it she didn't leave a voicemail. I talked to her briefly yesterday and was telling her about how I moved into my new place and things were going well. I was really positive and didn't bring up the relationship. I asked why she called on Friday and she said it was because she wanted to see if I wanted to get together and hang out.

 

I'd love to do that, but at the same time, I am cautious because I don't want to get hurt by false hope. I know she misses me but she still stood by her decision to end the relationship.

 

richpart, and wendymg, you both have offered some really great advice, so how do you think I should proceed, should I call her and ask her to hang out? I want her back, but I don't want to get hurt by false hope, and I don't want to seem desperate either. This is really frustrating!

[oldenoughtoknow]

Dude, you need to stop screwing around and do something - or you will lose her forever. She wants to hang out?!? She misses you?!? What do you need...a building to fall on you? She may as well be wearing a green flag dress and checkerboard underwear. Sorry, crass, I know...but I want you to get my point.

 

Reread my last post, but step up the time line. If she doesn't call you back in the next few days, you call her on Friday. Setup a time to get together over the weekend. Don't say what for, if you don't have to - keep her guessing - women love anticipation. And then do something really special! Rent a few chick flicks this week until the perfect idea hits you. She needs a grand gesture - to be swept back off her feet. She's waiting for you to take her.

 

I knew it...just from the pieces you've told me. Her signals could not be more clear. You need to get your confidence back. You're not going to look desperate, and you certainly don't have false hope about anything. "Look at her with a knowing smile. Keep planted in the back of your mind that the two of you are going to be together. Period." She's yours...and you know what you have to do!

[spinstermanquee]

Have to get into the cheering section here...

 

Look dude. No one can give you a step-by-step manual with illustrations and captions on how to win back your woman (except her). And she actually does (if you pay attention) show you what impresses her, what grabs her attention, what makes her swoon. So she is the sole author of the guide to "Tell Me Why's Woman." Now you just need to read it, and pay attention, and take notes, test at 11!

 

Go for it, we're backing you up my friend.

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks to both of you. I will definitely get in touch with her this weekend if I don't hear from her before then. I now live right next to a florist, so I think the first thing I will do for her is get her favorite flowers (Delphinium) for her. She loves getting flowers and I know during our relationship I didn't get them for her enough. Then maybe I will take her to a really romantic restaurant. She always loved going on romantic dates. Or perhaps I will re-create our first date. On our first date, I made dinner for her in my apartment and she loved it.

 

Is there anything wrong with keeping it simple? Also, do I bring up the relationship right off the bat or do I ease into that?

 

I am just going to hope for the best and expect the worse. I will know as soon as I give her the flowers how the rest of the night will go. I am nervous, but for the first time in a while, I actually feel really confident about doing this. I know if I don't, I might regret it for the rest of my life.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Now you're talking! Her favorite flowers. And I lean towards recreating your first date. Very romantic. Try to remember some details (food, music, etc.). Women love men who cook for them...it usually means much more to them than going to the most expensive restaurant. Does she have a favorite shirt of yours? Or one that she bought you? Wear it. No, there's nothing wrong with simple. Coming from the heart is the important thing here. Take her breath away.

 

I would NOT jump right into the relationship discussion. Chat for a while - catch up. You need to set the mood. Put her at ease. Let her anticipate where the evening is going. Reread my post below. Find your confidence and keep looking at her with a knowing smile. Plant it your head that the two of you are back together - there is no other option - not a single doubt in your mind. Planting this will also help your confidence when she throws some mud at you. And she will: "this isn't going to work out," or "I can't get over the past," or "I can't get the feeling back," etc. Don't budge. Just keep the confident gaze. Remember, it's when you lost your confidence in the relationship that started this mess. Women NEED to feel this. She will respond to your energy. Resistance is futile, my friend...she belongs to you.