Question for women who have been engaged and/or married...

[Tell Me Why]

We last talked on Sunday and she hasn't called me since then, of course it worries me and thinks she doesn't care, I know that is stupid of me to think considering a week ago she called and told me she missed me.

 

I'm thinking I don't even want to wait until Friday, I think I will send her a text tonight or tomorrow asking if she wants to get together over the weekend sometime.

 

When you mention her "throwing mud" at me, that is what I am worried about when I say I don't want to get hurt by false hope. If she says things like "This isn't going to work" or "I can't get over the past" or "My feelings won't change" etc. I will feel like this meeting was pointless and I will feel kind of foolish for making our meeting romantic and "date like", especially if it doesn't sweep her off her feet. If I am trying to get her back, her saying things like that will be a blow to my confidence, but like you said, I really need to work on keeping that confidence if she does say those things.

[oldenoughtoknow]

You do need a way to find that confidence. That's why I suggested planting that mantra in the back of your head. Women are very drawn to confidence. Just look and act like the two of you are back together and she will respond. Don't waiver. Don't do a lot of talking or explaining. That will make you look weak, and bring up too much opportunity for her to talk herself out of it. The "what about when you said this," type of conversations won't get you anywhere. Don't go there. Choose your words carefully. Don't babble. Don't fear awkward silences. Look at her with a knowing smile. You'll break down her defenses and she'll say something to the effect of "what am I going to do with you," or "you drive me crazy." That's when you'll know you're doing it right. She wants and needs to feel your confidence. That will assuage her fears and convince her that this is right.

 

Don't worry. Recreating your first date will sweep her off her feet. And, as I've said before, even if this blows up, you won't be any worse off. It doesn't preclude you getting together in the future. And, knowing you gave it your best shot and failed, will help you move on. There's nothing worse than waiting, and wondering "what if?"...

[Tell Me Why]

Well I just emailed her and asked her if she wanted to get together this weekend. She responded saying she is too busy this weekend but maybe the beginning of next week. Not a good sign I don't think. Of course, now I am upset and feel like she really doesn't care anymore. I responded back and I guess she didn't like my response so she responds with "You are confusing me, if you want to talk to me fine, if not then just let's forget it" I respond asking how I am confusing her and she responds saying that when I told her I wouldn't have hung out with her last Friday when she asked, it really hurt her. And she feels like I am trying to hang out with her only when I want to. She also said this is all hard for her too and that she is very depressed and doesn't want to feel worse.

 

I emailed back telling her that we need to just set a specific date and time aside next week or the week after to get together...I guess that's all I can do. No response yet but I will give an update when I get one.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Hum. That's why I liked the original idea of waiting until Friday for her to contact you. She makes the contact - you know what she wants. You make the contact - she knows what you want, and she may be in the middle of something, or in a bad mood, or whatever. In your situation, that would have worked much better for you.

 

I didn't notice that you were going to text her. A phone call is much better. Text and email is the most emotionally void method of communication.

 

The good thing here, I think, is that she says she's confused. And her feeling hurt is okay. Not ideal, but okay for now. Don't let that worry you.

 

Stop with the email. And don't meet her mid week, assuming you both have 9 to 5 jobs. If she's busy this weekend, set something up for next weekend. Tell her you're busy during mid week...if she contacts you. If she doesn't contact you, wait until Monday (NC) and CALL her to set something for next weekend.

 

That's what I'd do. I'm heading out of town for the weekend and probably won't have internet access. Good luck! You're still in the game.

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks rich. Well, she called me tonight and she ended up crying saying she doesn't understand how things worked out this way. She said again that she misses me and that this is really hard for her and that she is really depressed. She said she can't help how she feels and still can't get over everything that happened with us. She wants to get together next week but doesn't want us to talk about the bad things, she said if we hang out, we should focus on the positive things and the things we have in common. So we are going to get together next week and next weekend. I don't know, I felt good after this conversation. The fact that she was crying shows she still really cares about me. The fact that she wants to hang out and focus on the positive and the things we have in common is even better.

 

She still is saying her feelings won't change and that this is really hard for her. I told her how it was hard for me to and that I still love her and want to marry her and want to be with her. She keeps saying she can't get over how things worked out. She kept bringing up the things I told her, "I felt pressured", "I felt smothered", etc. I told her I didn't feel those things anymore and that I do love her want to marry her. She said it didn't matter because she feels the way she feels right now. I don't know, I just feel like it isn't over between us. We just need time apart to think about things. I'll report back later the next time I talk to her.

[oldenoughtoknow]

That's all great stuff. She needs your "gesture" to pull her back on your side of the fence she's sitting on. Her feelings will change in an instant. She wants that to happen...and it will. You know what to do. Next week and next weekend? I'd do your first date idea the first time you see her. Just don't have any more conversations like this over the phone. It sounds like really good stuff, but you need to do it in person. As I've said before, her heart won't open back up over the phone. I'm just heading out of town. Good luck.

[CHANGING]

Tell Me

In my opinion, even though you never once SAID I don't love you anymore, that's what she heard. women are more complicated than men. We read into a lot of things instead of just taking them for what they are. We have a habit of thinking "Did he mean this? or did he mean that? or Maybe he really means whatever". We do it all the time. Men just say what they mean. Period.

[Tell Me Why]

Another interesting update: After our last conversation, she calls again around midnight, she is hysterial and says that our dog is missing. She was out drinking and just got home and let him out and he didn't come back. So I get in the car and start driving over there to help find him. She ends up finding him so I turn around and go back home. We continue to talk and she tells me that she is really really depressed, to the point that her family and friends have said something to her.

 

She says she can't handle taking care of our dog. She says she got a warning from her work for being late so much and that she might get fired. She then said that she didn't expect that I'd move out so quickly and claimed she never said she told me I had to move out so soon. I was shocked. I told her I had to do what I needed to do to deal with this. She then accused me of not caring for our dog because I got a place that didn't allow dogs. She was crying and kept bringing up the past and asking me "Why did you ask me to marry you if you didn't want to marry me". I told her that wasn't the truth and that I did and that I do want to marry her.

 

She called again last night and wanted me to come over and spend the night!!! It was really late when she called and I was tired. I told her I couldn't come over because it would be too hard for me right now and it would make me think she wanted to get back together. As much as I wanted to go over there, I needed to show her that I was in control and that I wasn't just going to cave in to her every request. She said that if I thought that I would only hang out with her or spend time with her only if she agreed that we'd get back together, that it wouldn't change her mind. I told her this wasn't what I was doing and wasn't my intention. She got annoyed that I wouldn't come over and I assured her we would see each other next week. She said she was about to start crying and had to go.

 

I don't know know what to make of all this, but I will report back after we meet next week. I wish I would have gone over there last night, but I know I needed to be strong and feel like I was in control of the situation and not just give in to her every demand.

[Tell Me Why]

Well, she ended calling me last night and wanted to get together, so we went out to dinner and then watched a movie at her place. We didn't really talk about the relationship, but she did say one thing that confused me. She said that she doesn't want me to think that we will never be together again and think that things are permanent the way they are.

 

Thats good and all, but I know I can't just wait around for her to change her mind and decide she wants to be with me. She basically said that there is still a possibility we could be together again and doesn't want me to think this is permanent. I just wish I could change her feelings. I also feel like she is just strining me a long a little bit by telling me that we could possibly be together again.

[spinstermanquee]

Dude. You. Missed. This. Opportunity.

 

Arrgghh... she PUT IT IN YOUR FACE AND YOU HAD THE CHANCE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN! Sorry, I'm shouting, hehe

 

I am starting to think you like the emotional roller coaster more than you want to really marry this girl. If you were 100% committed you wouldn't waver every time she sneezes. She is giving you signals for you to move in and make it permanent, and you are ignoring them, vacillating, and overanalyzing the whole situation.

 

That's where it's at right now, at least from the info you've provided.

[Tell Me Why]

Well, I did take her out to a nice dinner and I spent the night at her house. I'm not exactly sure what to do from there. Propose to her? I'm just confused as to what exactly to say to her. She already knows I want to marry her and be with her, I told her that the other day, but it didn't change her mind.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Sounds like you had quite a weekend...phew, I don't know where to begin.

 

Yes, you need to take charge here. NOW! I totally agree with wendymg. When you went over to her house and talked and watched a movie, were you sitting close to each other? When you spent the night, did you sleep in the same bed? Did you make love? I didn't think so...bad, bad, bad move.

 

This vacillating is destroying both of you, and it's destroying your chances to get what you want. Don't propose to her - that will only bring up past hurt. And it sounds like you guys have done enough talking already. It's time for action. Don't go to her house and watch a movie. Hello, did anyone notice there's an elephant in the room? You're not going to just slip back into status quo by you being nice and supportive and listening to her vent. Boring! She needs a gesture, remember? Sweep her off her feet. Women don't fall back in love with doormats.

 

I don't know how else to say it...you need to TAKE HER! Be the man! Do your first date reenactment idea. Make it a romantic setting. She doesn't want to talk about the past - she's testing you. She wants to find out where you're really at (and not just in words). What are you made of? Where are you coming from? Are you going to hurt her again. Can she ever feel safe with you again? When she starts talking about old crap, look at her with that knowing smile, take her in your arms, ask her to be quiet, tell her you love her and kiss her like you're never going to stop. TAKE HER!

 

I've never seen such clear signals. You wish you could change her feelings? You can...JUST DO IT!

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks rich and wendy...we spoke yesterday and we plan on getting together again tomorrow...she even suggested that perhaps we make dinner instead of going out, which gives me the perfect opportunity to recreate the first date. I will also bring her a bouquet of her favorite flowers. I will report back after tomorrow and let you know how everything goes!

[Tell Me Why]

So I did the gesture and everything was going great. Then she started brining up the past again. She was hurt and still maintained she couldn't get over everything. She said she didn't think it was over between us and she could see us together again but not anytime soon. She just needed time to deal with everything. I told her that was fine and thats what I wanted her to do. I wanted her to be happy. I told her I loved her and poured my heart out to her. But then I was stupid enough to tell her this was hard for me, to see her and to hang out with her when she still was unsure if she wanted to be with me.

 

I told her everytime she asks me to hang out or come over, that it makes me think her feelings for me are coming back. She said that they are and that she misses me, but that its still too hard for her right now to be with me in a relationship. I just got upset and told her that I wasn't always going to be around for her and just give in to her every request. I told her I loved her and wanted to be with her, but that it was just really hard for me to just sit around and wait for her to change her mind and to just hang out with her and see her at her every request.

 

She started crying, I started crying. It was a mess. She then started talking about how depressed she has been and how she has even felt suicidal! She had a really rough childhood, her parents divorced, her father wasn't always around when she was young, her former stepdad sexually abused her, she was really depressed as a teenager and cut herself, etc. She has a lot of emotional problems and has a hard time trusting anyone, especially men.

 

She told me she finally opened up and trusted someone, me, but I ended up hurting her, and thats why this is all so hard for her. She accused me of making her feel bad whenever I tell her how this is hard for me and how its sometimes is hard for me to see her or talk to her. I told her I wanted to feel like I was in control of my life and that if I wanted to say no to her when she asked me to hang out, I had that power. She said me saying that hurt her. She says that she can't do this anymore, she can't hang out with me and get this upset. I told her next time we wouldn't bring up the past and would just have fun.

 

I took her home and she was still a wreck and crying and I wanted to make sure she was ok and told her I would spend the night. She said that wasn't a good idea and that I'd just make her feel bad about it the next day. I told her I loved her and was there for her and then left.

 

Today I'm just depressed, I feel like I ruined everything by talking about the past. I love her so much and just want to be with her, but I feel like she has so many emotional problems and trust issues she needs to deal with and its just too hard for her to do so.

 

rich and wendy, thanks so much for your support and advice. I'd like to hear your thougnts on this. Is there any hope left? I think I am just going to back off and let her cool down, and assure her that next time we hang out, the past won't be brought up, and perhaps maybe I will do another, bigger, better gesture.

[oldenoughtoknow]

You didn't blow it. You just didn't give her the strength and confidence she needed. You need to steer this ship. Don't let her talk about the past anymore. Tell her, the next time she brings up the past, you're going to kiss her to make her stop.

 

I actually don't think telling her you're hurting is a bad thing in this situation, either. It was actually a good thing. It expressed your conviction to her and sorrow over your mistakes. That's good, she needs to hear and feel that. You just need to finish the process. And, telling her that you can't hang around while she's vacillating was a good thing too - it says I'm here, but I'm not your doormat.

 

Question: Have you guys kissed yet? Have you embraced? I hope you're not standing accross the room from each other having these conversations? If not, you really need to move this to more of a physical level - and I'm not talking about sex. Especially given her past, she needs to feel your strength. As you stated, that's what she's upset about. She's hurt, and she wants to feel safe in your arms again. If she were done with you, believe me, she'd be long gone.

 

I wouldn't back off, or do NC. I think NC will wig her out at this point. She wants you to make her fears go away. Pursue her a little to show her you mean it. I wouldn't do any more big gestures. But I would make clear my intentions. I am right here. We are together. Period. Stop allowing her to talk about it. Show up at her house with a single (her favorite) flower. Grab her and kiss her. She might resist - you need to push through her resistance - show her your confidence - use your knowing smile - not your words - show her your strength. Hold her like you're never going to let her go again. Hold her all night long (with no overt sexual advances). Don't let her decide about whether you spend the night or not. Lead! Steer the ship! And stop talking already - you've talked enough. If it doesn't work the first try, do it again, maybe a day or two later. And again, if necessary. Prove to her your conviction, and that you're never going to hurt her again.

 

You've gone from text, to phone, to in person...you're on the final step to getting her heart back. Go get her.

[Tell Me Why]

She just sent an email that said:

 

"I was thinking about it and I think that it is obvious we are both still very hurt and pretty upset. I think that we should wait to let our wounds heal before we spend more time together…I know I am the one who initiated talking and hanging out, but that was a mistake…I should have waited longer. I think we both need at least a couple of weeks to digest everything."

 

I don't know what to make of this. I think I will call her up later and bring this up.

[oldenoughtoknow]

See, I knew you didn't blow it.

 

I wasn't in the room when you last met, so you may need to feel this part out for yourself.

 

First of all, don't give in to a couple weeks apart just because that's what she said she wants. The biggest problem here is that she's been leading this reconciliation. She wants you to lead this. What do YOU want to do? It sounds like you want her, so go and take her. Don't let her call the shots here. Because of her past issues and your cold feet episode, she needs to feel your love and strength, your conviction and confidence. That is what will draw her back. The longer you guys keep talking, crying and slinging mud, without fruition, will only further erode her confidence in you and the relationship.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't call her later. I'd show up at her door tonight with a single flower, grab her and kiss her. If she recoils, take a step back, tell her you love her, tell her you'll talk to her in two weeks, and leave. If she's receptive, reread my last post and hold her all night - but no more talking!

 

If you can't muster that, call her later and tell her okay, but with NC for two weeks - keep the call really short. At least you can show some leadership with the NC concept. But then you'll need to stick to it.

 

PS, have you actually kissed her yet? If not, that's your first priority. The time for talking is over.

[Tell Me Why]

I spent the night at her place and while we were in bed before going to sleep, we gave each other soft kisses on the lips, but nothing passionate. I like your idea of showing up at her place with the flower, but she might feel scared if I do that, but on the other hand, it shows her that I know what I want and I am going after it. If she recoils, like you said, I will tell her I love her, will talk to her later, and just leave.

 

Thanks a lot rich, you have really given me some great advice on this matter and I always look forward to what you will say next. I will keep you updated!

[oldenoughtoknow]

You're very welcome, TMW. I've enjoyed helping you with this...I really want to hear the two of you get back together sometime soon.

 

Glad to hear you're kissing a little. I definitely wouldn't push the passionate (foreplay/sexual) kisses at all. Especially given her past sexual abuse issue - you don't want to push that button. Lure her on that front, and you will know when she's ready. But, don't be afraid to push her on occasion - like with the front door kiss. But be ready to back off quickly - make it like a tease and her recoil won't register as her being in control. You'll earn a point.

 

Another thought on kissing (sans passion), front door or otherwise. From my experience, women love long, lingering kisses. No tongue. No grabbing and heavy breathing. Actually, no movement at all. Try to hold it still for at least a minute. Softly on the lips, or if you're behind her spooning/cuddling, on the base of her neck. When you do it right, you can feel the energy flow between you. She will melt. You'll earn another point.

 

Think subtle leadership. Don't be afraid to scare her a little - it will only last a second. And on the front door recoil possibility, don't forget the NC point. You won't talk to her "later," you'll talk to her in "two weeks." That will show that you meant what you said regarding NC. You can stay in charge of the NC issue. It's subtle, but she'll notice it. She'll be thinking "OMG, NC for two weeks, that's not what I wanted!" You just earned another point.

 

And I think you should try my earlier idea regarding talking about the past. The first time she tries to bring it up, tell her you're going to kiss her until she stops (this is yet another reason to stop talking on the phone, BTW). It's playful. You take control. You make her stop. You set the course. You are making her feel safe again. And, what the heck, let's not gloss over the fact that you get to kiss her. Eventually, you may find her playing with you, bringing up the past on purpose, so you'll kiss her again. You just earned two points for that one.

 

Leading and taking control and showing confidence isn't always about swinging a big stick around. The subtle approach can be a bit more difficult to administer, but it can be far more powerful.

[Tell Me Why]

Well, I decided to take control and I think I'm going to go to her place tonight with flowers and just embrace her and kiss her. I have nothing to lose. I've never done something like this before. I wasn't able to do it last night so tonight is my chance. If she recoils and is uncomfortable, so be it, I'll tell her we will talk in 2 weeks and then leave. I will be confident. Maybe she will be impressed, but maybe not. She might be angry about it. This might backfire but I don't care. I love her so much and love makes you do crazy things. Since I already lost her as a partner for now, what else do I have to lose? If she never wants to get back together because of me doing this, then she is nuts. She can be uncomfortable or angry about it, but for her to never want to see me again because of that would be absurd.

[Ms Darcy]

As a side note, I must say that the whole 'spontaneous passionate kiss' thing is a real aphrodesiac. I was talking about something, who knows what, and my bf did that. ... I still get tingles. Sure did shut me right up!

[oldenoughtoknow]

Atta boy! Now you're thinking straight. Sounds like you're feeling a little more confident. Just remember to stay that way - maintain control.

 

Do the front door and flowers, grab her and kiss her, and step back. Don't allow her the control of rejecting you.

 

If you're invited in and she brings up the past, tell her you refuse to talk about it right now and if she persists, you're going to kiss her until she stops. If she keeps talking, do it!

 

Talk about anything, current events, the weather, funny things that happened today, even reminisce about your (good) past. If she brings up the bad past, immediately move in to kiss her. If she refuses to stop talking, or recoils on the kiss, or looks angry, or...anything, at any time, just walk towards the door and say "okay, talk to you in two weeks." Do it. Don't wuss out. Don't let her stop you from leaving and start talking about your bad past again. Let her chase you and agree to your terms. Wait until you see the look that will be on her face, when she sees the new, confident you. That's the leadership and confidence she needs.

 

You guys have to stop hurting each other and start enjoying each other again. You have to steer the ship in that direction.

[Tell Me Why]

Well, I did it and it backfired badly. I knew she was going out tonight so I showed up at her place a little after 10, flowers in hand, and knocked the door. She freaked out, and wouldn't open the door and got really angry. She is the kind of girl that get scared very easily, especially when she is living alone. She called my cell phone and she got mad and asked why the hell would I come to her house at 10 at night. I told her because I loved her and I wanted to surprise her and that I brought her favorite flowers. She wouldn't budge and didn't open the door. She said she was really upset that I did this and that it was weird of me to just show up there without calling her or letting her know. She brought up the fact that she told me that we shouldn't see each other or talk for a while, and that I didn't respect what she wanted. I told her I just wanted to be spontaneous and show her how much I love her and tell her that I am done bringing up the past and all the hurt and just want to focus on the positive and have her in my life. She kept saying she was really angry and that if I came back, she would calll the cops. I told her "I'll talk to you in two weeks" to which she replied "I'll talk to you when I feel like it". Then I left in shame.

 

I knew this would happen and now I feel like I've taken 5 steps backward. It went from her missing me terribly and asking me to spend the night to her not wanting us to see each other for couple of weeks, to her being totally freaked out and angry at me and threatening to call the police if I show up randomly again..

 

I'm such an idiot, I knew this would happen. I had never done anything like this before and I guess I just assumed she would be impressed. I thought wrong. rich, even though it didn't work the way I wanted it to, thanks for suggesting it because it did give me a chance to be confident and take control of the situation, unfortunately, she took the control back. I guess now its just NC until she decides to contact me, right??

[Ms Darcy]

Yeah, definitely stay away for a while.

[oldenoughtoknow]

I'm really sorry that happened. I don't know if you guys are night people, but someone showing up after 10 is probably a little late for most people. I know I would be a bit startled if someone knocked on my door that late at night.

 

Don't feel bad, and don't think you've gone backward. Don't lose your confidence over this. It's just a bump in the road. Definitely stick with NC. I'm sure she'll calm down over this in a day or two, and think good thoughts about it. When she contacts you, apologize, but don't grovel. Apologize for going over so late and frightening her...do not apologize for the act itself. And remember to keep the call short.

 

Fear not, my friend. Maintain your confidence. This dance is far from over.