Tell Me Why Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 She called me today and told me she felt bad because she thinks I was hurt when we were at dinner. I told her I was upset about finding out she was on those sites but that I was over it and that she had every right to do what she wanted. She told me that she really isn't on those sites and that she doesn't have profiles, and that she was just checking it out and answering some questionaires, but she never joined the sites and she says she isn't active on them. I told her she didn't have to explain herself to me. We then had a nice conversation just talking about things going on in our lives. This makes me more confused, I don't know whether to just do NC and not take her calls anymore or to keep seeing her. This is a tough decision, especailly because I have no clue what she really wants. Maybe I should just give her some time on her own to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinstermanquee Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Dearest TMW, when I read just your posts the vision that impresses itself upon me is a great big cloud of confusion. At this point in the relationship, IMHO, it's futile to ask advice, formulate plans, be decisive, try to make grand gestures, or win a woman back from the nebulous region in which she now resides. That time is now past, and you have shown yourself to not be sufficiently motivated/inspired to do any of the aforementioned in the time frame that would have supported a positive conclusion. That could be a sign that this relationship is not "the one." For "the one," I think people build bridges and leap buildings, all without having to stop and post on ena ;-) There is work to be done here. It's not 100% over but you have to get off the fence. We are not your Svengali, at some point you have to do your own Monday-morning quarterbacking on the spot. It hasn't been working now has it? Maybe the problem resides on your side of the fence. Deal. Move on. Absorb the lesson. You are a MAN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella74 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 TMW, I really think this is par for the course. When I was separated from my ex-fiance, I dated other men. Why wouldn't I? If he didn't want to be married to me, I had every right to date other men. She doesn't want to hurt you. She is still confused because it's only been two months. Rich, your therapist and I had all suggested it would be best to take some time apart for at least a month. I still think that's the best thing to do now. Stop going on dates. Let her date other people. Let her miss you. When you see her, you want it be so super casual that nothing about your relationship comes up. She's pushing your buttons to test you. If you can't stand these tests, stop putting yourself in the position where you have to take them. Eventually you both won't feel as confused and will be more clear about where you're headed, either separately or together. Remember, focus on re-building your confidence and learning to deal with the stresses of this situation...on your own, with your therapist, on ENA and with your friends. NOT with your ex-fiance. You can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm not sure if you have read through this whole thread, but I did try some sort of a gesture, surprising her with her favorite flowers, but that backfired and she got really mad... But you are probably right, I can't find all the answers on here, even though ENA has been very helpful. I need to look into myself and deal with my issues and focus on myself right now. Thanks for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm not sure if you have read through this whole thread, but I did try some sort of a gesture, surprising her with her favorite flowers, but that backfired and she got really mad... But you are probably right, I can't find all the answers on here, even though ENA has been very helpful. I need to look into myself and deal with my issues and focus on myself right now. Thanks for your advice. I've read the whole thread and even though you did not address me, I thought I would add my 2 cents. I think the best open window was way back ... immediately after you expressed some doubt. I think after that was a downward spiral of uncertainty and ambivalence on both sides. This is not to say you didn't do your best or that you have no chance in the future, I'm just noting when I think the window was most widely open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 You are absolutely right Ms Darcy, the best window was certainly right after I initially expressed doubt about the wedding. My behavior immediately after that certainly did not show her that I really wanted to get married. But what happened happened, I know what I want now, but I just have to let things play out the way they are supposed to I guess. On a side note, she called me really late last night and asked if I could come over and spend the night. More confusion. As much as I wanted to go over there, I told her that it was too late to come over. I need to feel in control of myself and I can't just give in to everything she wants. But then I'm thinking, what if this is another test, what if me coming over there makes her think that I really care or something. I know, paranoid right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinstermanquee Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I did try some sort of a gesture, surprising her with her favorite flowers Hey TMW, that was a nice, sweet gesture. Sorry it didn't yield you the results you would have liked. I've been in your cheering section for the last 2 months and no matter what I hope and pray it all works out for you... Just FYI, a "grand gesture" is over the top, unexpected, blow-away material. Something that's never been done before, or something common amped up to a whole new level. Something she would never imagine you would do that would cause her to look at you or your relationship in a whole new light. It takes some creativity to think one up anyhow best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Thank you wendy. She called again today saying she misses me and wants to see me and she wants to hang out later. Here we go again. She obviously isn't ready to let go. I hope it all works out to, thanks for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella74 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 TMW, it's not clear to me why you don't feel you can stand up to her and tell her it's not in your best interest to date or sleep over right now, because you want to be with her and need to work on yourself first?? It sounds like you are very confused, so perhaps work on your own confusion first rather than trying to figure out your ex-fiancee's confusion. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Attaboy! Sorry I've been away for a few days. It sounds like you handled the online site thing pretty well. She could tell that you were hurt, but just a week or two ago, you would have exploded over something like this. Good job. You did really well on the followup phone call as well. And then she called late and wanted you to come over - probably for more cuddling. That wasn't a test, necessarily. She's confused and looking for comfort. You need to show her that you're a confident, new man and you know what YOU want. Screw cuddling. You're not a wimpy doormat that she can call up and throw mud at and then expect comfort from whenever she feels like. Let her want you, let her miss you. Good job again. As I've tried to say many times, you do have to "start over" with this. You aren't going to jump right back into the fiance track. That's why you shouldn't talk about the past, and you certainly shouldn't talk about the future. The engagement is off the table right now. Period. This is new - it has to be. Of course, given your history, once you have her back things will probably progress pretty quickly. But you have to get her fears handled first. Once again, wendymg has given you some great advice. You two both clearly have issues, and those issues are highly conflicting. You have problems with insecurity and confidence, and she has issues with abandonment. When you got cold feet over the wedding, your raw never center punched her raw nerve. Since then, she has been testing your confidence and commitment level, and you haven't been able to pass them. Is this ultimately the right relationship for you? Who's to say. The only thing that matters is that you are both aware of the issues and willing to work on making each other happy. With the right attitude, otherwise highly incompatible people can have a great relationship. She obviously still wants to be with you. Don't think twice about the online thing. Anyone in the same situation would do that. I would reread this entire thread and all of the past advice, at least a few times. And then tonight, just stay the course. Don't put up with her crap, and subtly show her that you know what you want. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella74 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Great post Rich. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Thanks rich, good advice as usual. She wanted to hang out tonight and I actually had to cancel on her! A friend of mine who I hadn't seen in a while, who I was supposed to hang out with earlier in the day, had something come up and he had to change the time that we could meet up, so I just called her up and told her I had to cancel. Usually, I would just cancel with the friend so I could be with her. But this time, I did what I wanted to do. I know that she can't control what I do, and I have to look out for myself and do what makes me happy. After I cancelled, I also took the initiative to tell her when I wanted to see her again. I told her "Let's go out to dinner on Tuesday", I didn't ask, I just told her and she agreed. I showed some confidence and I feel good. I know I just have to live my life, have fun, be confident, and things will come around. I have a good feeling about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 OMG, TMW, that is TOO perfect! Yes, you do need to be confident, and have a life of your own, and show that you are able to live without her. That is very attractive! And then you TOLD her when you would see her again and she responded positively. Now you're taking charge and displaying confidence. No more clinging doormat. Perfectly done. Good for you! You see, my advice does work. I've been down this path before myself. You are on your way, my friend...now you're getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
searching89 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The first day after my husband and I were married, we got into a fight. It was over something stupid and it all boiled down to the horrible things my family had said and done to us. He told me he wished we hadn't gotten married. It broke my heart, and I said we should just get it annulled and move on. The next day, we talked about it and realized we were being overly dramatic. We were stressed out and scared about the future and we were taking it out on each other. Relationships are HARD. Sometimes we feel depressed and we don't know why...it is easy for our partner to take it personally. Marriage IS scary and the future is so wide open and unsure that it is hard to be certain how it will turn out. She may have fallen out of love as a defense. Her heart was probably broken by the fact that you had cold feet and she didn't want to be hurt. It's not your fault or hers....it just didn't work out. As much as that hurts, things will turn out like they are supposed to in the end. Just give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Thanks. I agree. This was what was happening in our relationship before I got the cold feet. We were getting in fights over really stupid things, and on numerous occassions, she said she didn't want to get married and gave me the ring back. This was probably the root of my cold feet, the fact that we could get in these fights over stupid things and she'd want to bail so easily. What happens after we make it official? It made me scared about the future and perhaps we ended up being a bit too dramatic about it all. But maybe there were many problems we never got to the root of. Now that we aren't together, it has allowed us both to look back on the relationship and recognize our mistakes. I've learned a lot from it. Whether we get back together or not, I know I will be a better person as well as a better partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Well she was calling me again last night! Now she is back to saying "I love you" when she ends calls! What is going on here?! Anyway, she was begging and pleaded for me to come over and spend the night again...I told her NO again and that I had things I needed to do. She reacted positively to that and just accepted it. I then TOLD her that we are going out to dinner tomorrow and I also TOLD her where we would go and what we would do afterwards. Usually, I'm always asking her what she wants to do, this time, I took charge and was assertive..about not sleeping over there and also about what we will be doing when we get together. She was very receptive and ended the phone call with an "I love you". I'm still confused though, one minute, she's on dating sites, doesn't call me at all, and never has time to hang out, the next minute, she's calling me, begging me to spend the night, saying "I love you". This is where I get a little scared, as if she's just trying to have her cake and eat it too, keep me around for when she has nothing else to do or when she is lonely, and then when she's busy, she has no time for me. I don't know. But at least I was confident and assertive on the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Good for you! Confidence is a good thing. To be honest, I didn't know that she'd been wishy washy during the relationship too. This really changed my view. (I thought this just started after you expressed your doubts.) I am not sure this woman will really know if she wants you until you are truly out of your life. I would not fault you for walking away if you choose. But that's just my opinion. Best of luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You see, TMW, you're doing the right things and she's responding. This is exactly what we've been discussing. She's been emotional and all over the place. She loves you and wants you. But she doesn't trust you or your commitment to the relationship anymore and wants to flee. Sure, she's trying to maintain/rebuild her own life and keeps herself busy. That's a healthy thing for her to do. Sure, she's looking at dating sites to see what her other options might be. That's healthy for her too. She's been looking/searching/testing/yearning for your confidence and you haven't been able to consistently provide it to her. She's simply trying to reassure herself that you're the one for her. She's protecting herself. She doesn't want to be hurt again. That's healthy as well. She's not looking for her cake and eat it too. Sure, she'll ask (test) you for all kinds of stupid things. Spending the night cuddling and calming her fears...that does NOT work. It will only perpetuate her fear that you're not a man with confidence and a clear direction. You're finally doing exactly the right things, and look at how she's responding. Don't start worrying about what she's thinking and second guessing yourself again. If you do start that again, she'll flee again. You stood up to her, and she loves you. It's poetic simplicity, once you understand her needs. You're doing a great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Thanks rich. I feel good about what I'm doing. She's been responding positively and that's a good thing. I still can't get the dating sites out of my head though. It's still bothering me. I know she has every right do be on them, but I haven't even thought of going on them yet and I don't plan on it. We did our dinner date on Tuesday and it was good. Of course she wanted me to sleep over again but I showed that assertiveness and confidence and she accepted it. I didn't hear from her at all yesterday but she did mention something about getting together this weekend. I just wish I knew where this was going. I mean, if she really does go to Hawaii in October, I will feel like its over for good! If she does decide to go to Hawaii, I might have to do something like in the movies where the guy shows up at the airport and catches them right before they board the plane and tells them not to go! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Keep up the good work, and don't worry about the dating sites. Heck, I can get into a fight with my GF (usually a big one that lasts for a few days) and I'll find myself browsing through the dating sites for a few minutes. It doesn't mean that I would actually go on a date, or cheat on her in any way, for that matter. I find it usually helps...I start to think "OMG, I don't want to start dating again. None of these women look very attractive to me. Look at that one, she has to be a lesbian. Look at that one, she looks crazier than what I already have." Etc. So don't take it personally. And stop worrying about the future. All relationships are a leap of faith, and no one really knows where any of them are going. Worrying will drive you crazy and erode your confidence. Concentrate on the now. Remember the mindset - you guys are back together. If she brings up Hawaii, tell her you don't want her to go, you want her right here, and drop it. Your confidence is coming around - don't sabotage yourself with this stuff. She's saying I love you again, remember? You've finally got the right idea, just keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 Well, she called the other day and was mad that I hadn't called her!! After two days of not speaking to her, I'm thinking that she was just avoiding me, apparently, she was waiting for me to call. I was just trying to give her some space. I can't win, if I give her space and don't call, she's upset...but then, if I am around too much, she wants space! I guess I have to find the right balance. Anyway, we had a nice lunch together over the weekend. No sleepovers, no cuddling, just me being confident. I've been keeping myself busy and making plans with friends more than ever before, she sees that and she sees my confidence and I think she's impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinstermanquee Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Sounds like you are finding the balance between demonstrating your love and affection (togetherness), and maintaining your own life (separateness). It's not an easy balance to keep when you're crazy about someone, but absolutely worth the effort. Many nights during my single days I would go out with the girls, or sometimes just stay home and work on projects, instead of staying over at my DH's or hosting him at my place. It's a nice feeling when you are comfortable together or apart, as long as the "apart" part isn't any kind of punishment it can be just as good as the togetherness. If you can/have the time, read Khalil Gibran's take on marriage... it's a much better wording of what I was trying to express to you above: link removed Good luck, TMW... we're rooting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I haven't heard from you for a while, TMW. I hope things are going well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Me Why Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Thanks rich. I haven't been on here for a while. Things have been going well I guess. We've been seeing each other regularly. The other night I told her flat out I didn't want her moving to Hawaii. She said that she was probably going to but it didn't mean we couldn't ever be together. I guess thats a good thing, but I really don't know what to expect. If she really does move there, I am just supposed to wait around while she is thousands of miles away or am I supposed to try to get on with my life? Also, I ran into her friends the other night when I was out, and we had a nice conversation. They don't think she is really going to move to Hawaii. I told them that I really love her and want to be with her. They said that she knows that and that maybe we just needed time apart before things could work out. They said that things between us would work out and that I am a great guy. So who knows what the future holds. I hope she doesn't move to Hawaii...it's getting closer to the time she said she was going to move there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenoughtoknow Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hey, TMW. It sounds like things are going well for you lately. You're getting your confidence back - good for you! Don't worry about Hawaii. Deal with today, and tell her what you want and expect. Relationships are always a leap of faith...here today, gone Hawaii. Just keep doing what you're doing. Stay confident - that will keep her attracted to you and compel her to stay put. If she does wind up moving, then it's your turn to sign up for those dating sites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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