Question for women who have been engaged and/or married...

[Tell Me Why]

Just a quick question, do you think I should still do romantic things for her like sending her favorite flowers to her work or is that too wussy at this point?

[oldenoughtoknow]

She's still controlling the "dating" situation. And on your last date, she dropped the Hawaiian bomb and you spent the night and cuddled. I'd wait for her to contact you about getting together this week. Change something from her first suggestion - even if you just change the meeting time by 1/2 hour. That takes back some control.

 

Then on your date, tease and kiss her. Kiss her with passion - like you mean it. Not soft, tender and emotional (which says I'm a wuss, please take me back, please...). Kiss her like you want to jump her bones. And then back off. That shows her you're in control. Do that a few times throughout the evening. If she doesn't bring up Hawaii again, you bring it up and tell her you don't want her to go - you need her here. Near the end of the date, tell her when you're going to see her again "I want to take you to X on Saturday. I'll pick you up at 7." Then give her a hollywood kiss good night and leave.

 

I wouldn't send her any flowers or anything, until you get a few of these things handled. When you REALLY have her back - not when she's simply maintaining contact, but when she's grabbing you and giving you a passionate kiss - then you can back off the anti-wuss campaign and do some romantic things. Buck up, TMW. You can do this.

[confusedgirly]

Good luck TMW

[stella74]

Tell Me Why, your initial post could have been written by my ex-fiance when we first separated. Like you, my ex-fiance got cold feet and postponed our wedding. So I can empathize with your situation. I can give you the perspective of a woman whose engagement ended after couples therapy and a separation living apart while trying to work things out. Ultimately, it is very, very difficult to re-build the trust and love feelings, especially when there are already trust issues. Your ex-fiancee understandably has reasons to doubt you really want to be married to her, not only because you postponed the wedding but because she was abused by her step-father. As Chigal has pointed out, she probably has abandonment issues. She also probably suspects you might be trying to take advantage of her love and vulnerability, like her step-father did.

 

So you need to work really hard at communicating honestly and respectfully. That means you don't try to manipulate her or control her or play games with her. If you really want to be married to her, act maturely so she knows she can depend on you. Up until now, your needs have been more important than hers. Now you need to show her that her needs are just as important. You're telling her it's really hard for you to give her space, but that's what she needs now, so respect that. You can tell her you don't want her to move to Hawaii, but otherwise you need to be supportive of her needs right now.

 

The problem is that once you made it clear you wanted to postpone the wedding, all the potential incompatibilities that may have lain under the surface came to the fore. That's what happened with me and my ex-fiance. Once you postpone a wedding, it's normal to put the relationship under a microscope to try to figure out if there are reasons other than cold feet that are causing the problems. The more you look at the problems in the relationship, the more the fear of making a life-long commitment increases. In my case, I started to get really afraid that even if we got married, he'd regret it and there would still be problems. I didn't want to get married if there was such a high risk of divorce. So we eventually decided to break up. We had a wedding date set and everything, and it broke my heart.

 

I agree with Chigal: "You say you went to counseling, and I think that's great...but I feel that the only way to work this out would be to address both of your issues in such a way that she KNOWS you are in this for the long haul, and won't be out the door if you have doubts 5, 10, 15 years from now."

 

I also think Batya is correct in saying: "First, once you share the "cold feet" with your partner, you have to accept that your partner is perfectly justified in reacting by ending the relationship -- she/he is not obligated to stick around and help you resolve your issues." That is how I felt.

 

So you need to reduce the risk of divorce in her mind. This means more than just taking the lead in courting her and confidently romanticizing her, as Richpart has been advising you. You need to rebuild trust and work on reconciling your differences. If you told her she smothered you when you lived together (even though now you say that wasn't really a problem), what's to prevent you from telling her that again? It's an extremely hurtful thing to say. What's to prevent you from feeling pressured again and wanting a way out? You need to show her you can handle the pressures of marriage, even when you're under stress or feeling depressed. You can do this by handling the pressures of this current situation.

 

You miss her now because you're not living with her and you know you might lose her. The grass is always greener. Whatever problems you had before that led to the fighting are now magnified in her mind and exacerbated by the previous abuse she experienced. You need to address your depression because you projected your feelings onto her and the relationship, which wasn't fair to her nor conducive to a healthy marriage. You don't need to beat yourself up about this, but you need to take responsibility for the damage you've created.

 

You say you need space to work on yourself, which is great. I suggest you find a professional individual counselor to help you work through these issues. You need to stop "pouring your heart out" to your ex-fiancee. Pour your heart out to a therapist.

 

I wish you all the best of luck.

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks for your insight, stella. But the fact remains, she doesn't want space...I was the one who began NC after she broke things off, I knew we both needed time apart. She was the one who started contacting me again saying she missed me and saying that she wanted to see me....otherwise, I was willing to give her all the space in the world. If she had never contacted me after the split, I wouldn't even be bothering her and I would give her the space that she wanted.

 

I feel like she doesn't really know what she wants, this is why 2 weeks after she ended things, she was already saying she missed me and that she doesn't think the book is closed between us. This is why I've taken richpart's advice to heart, because she is showing signs that she would like to get back together someday. If she was done with me, she'd be done and wouldn't be looking back, but at this point, she is unsure and needs to feel that trust she once felt.

 

If she wasn't showing these signs, I would leave her alone. But I know what you are saying when it comes to trust issues, she has tons of them and this is the biggest hurdle right now, she needs to trust that I won't do this to her again and that I won't get cold feet again and that I truly am committed to her. In the time we've been broken up, I've really worked on myself and I am much happier now and happier with myself, and I know that I really am prepared to make a committment to her, but I fear its too late.

 

As for therapy, I am currently seeing one and have been for a while. I am invidually seeing the therapist that saw me and my ex fiance together when we were in couples counseling.

 

My therapist tells me I shouldn't be seeing her and that we need more space, otherwise, things will go back to the way they were and I will end up getting hurt again. She thinks I should tell her I don't want to see her for at least a month and in that time I should try to heal myself more and move on.

 

I respect what she is saying, but that's not what I want. My ex is contacting me, saying she misses me, saying the book isn't closed, wanting to "date", so how else should I respond to that? Any sign of her wanting to get back together, even if its subtle, I get excited about.

 

So at this point, I think, as long as she is wanting to see me and wanting to spend time with me, I have to show her that confidence and show her what I really want, which is her. I think thats the only way she will trust me again.

[oldenoughtoknow]

You have some great advice and insight from stella74. You didn't mention that your therapist recommended that you shouldn't see her. Of course, that is up to you. But if you aren't ready to be confident, show direction and "stop pouring your heart out," then you shouldn't be seeing her.

 

She isn't certain what she wants right now. She's been hurt by you. The only way you can get her back is by showing her that you ARE confident and you know what you want. If you keep seeing her and you can't project your confirmed direction, each time will only reaffirm her doubts and insecurities.

 

Her tests will keep coming, and they will only get worse until you can rebuilt her trust. Reread some of my past advice. If you don't think you are up to it right now, then you should back off until you are up to it. If you think you can pursue her and handle her mud slinging with confidence and direction, then go for it.

[Tell Me Why]

But like I said, although I respect my therapist, I feel like I don't have to listen to everything that she says. I want to do what I want and what I think is good for me. I have more confidence in myself and I really do think I am up for showing her that and projecting that new confidence. I know what I want for sure now even though she doesn't know what she wants for sure. I want to show her I won't hurt her again, I am up for the challenge.

 

Thanks again rich, for all the advice you've given. I've always looked forward to what you have to say each day. Your advice has helped to slowly build up that confidence, now I just have to project it!! I will keep this thread updated with my progress, and I KNOW that it will be good progress!

[stella74]

The problem is that you need to do what is good for the relationship, and that might not necessarily be what is best for you.

 

I also made attempts to reconcile with my ex-fiance. A few months after we ended the engagement, I told him I missed him and he told me he still loved me. We went on a couple of dates, but it was clear to me that although he said he wanted to change he really hadn't. I'm sure this is what is going through your ex-fiancee's mind too. She reaches out to you because she misses you, but then she sees you and realizes that there are still problems.

 

You have to realize that she has mixed feelings, understandably. Giving her space will not reduce your chances of getting back together. It will give you time to work on yourself with your therapist and for her to process everything. Not enough time has passed for any real changes in you to have taken place.

[Tell Me Why]

So you think I should give her space even though she isn't asking for it? She was the one who began to initiate contact after the split, she was the one who asks to hang out all the time, she's the one that wants to "date". You think I should still give her space even though she is the one reaching out?

 

If she said today, "I need space and we shouldn't see each other for a while", then I'd back off, but the fact that she's giving me mixed signals makes me hesitant to back away from her because I feel like being there right now will increase my chances of reconciliation. But I could be wrong.

[stella74]

You can simply say that you still love her and want to be with her, and in order to do that you're going to take some time and space to work on yourself with your therapist. I think a month is a good start. During that time, you can do nice gestures such as sending her flowers or even catching up over coffee, as long as you keep things casual and don't talk about your issues. I wouldn't go on dates with her. If she asks you out on a date, say you think it's best for the relationship that you not date at this point until you've made more changes in yourself. That will show her you're committed to changing and improving things between you. If my ex-fiance had done that, it would have made a big difference. If she says she doesn't want to talk about getting back together, let it go. Focus on yourself right now.

[Tell Me Why]

The most frustrating part of this that she doesn't know what she wants. One minute, she wants to spend time with me, then the next, she's too busy. We were supposed to go to dinner tonight and she emails me and tells me she can't because she is too swamped with getting stuff ready for her trip this weekend.

 

I just wish she would tell me what she wants. I haven't heard from her really at all this week, then other weeks, she will be contacting me all the time wanting to hang out. I feel like she only wants to see me when its convenient for her and that she is always just fitting me into her schedule. I haven't complained about it to her, I've just accepted it and have been strong about it, but its really upsetting to me. I know what I want and I just wish I could take it. I feel like with her though, if I showed all the confidence in the world, she would still be unsure of what she wants.

 

Maybe we should just spend a bit more time apart, I don't know. That's not what I want to do, I want to go and get her back, but I can't force her to change her feelings, especially when they always change

[stella74]

There's not one right way to handle this because no one's perfect! But I do think time and space apart right now would be best for both of you and for any chances of reconciling. You're changing and she's changing, and so you need to keep adapting to her needs and to the relationship's needs while at the same time taking care of yourself and staying confident. That's what marriage would be like, so this is good practice.

[stella74]

I just had an image in my mind. Think of it this way. You've both been in a boat that has capsized. You're in shark infested waters and you're both panicking to get to land. You want to go where it feels safe. You want to take her and lead her to shore with you. She's not sure she can trust you. In some ways, you're as bad as the sharks So she sees other land (Hawaii) that looks and feels safer to her. But she's not sure she wants to go there alone. She's not sure she can make it. So sometimes she swims over to you and wants you to be there for her. Other times, she wants to get as far away from you as she can. All you can do is let her know calmly that you want to guide you both to shore and that you're there for her. Forcing her in any way to join you would stir up the waters and possibly lead you to getting eaten by the sharks.

 

Your therapist is a lifeguard who sees you need help and are running the risk of drowning or getting hurt. She swims over to you to help guide you. She wants you to focus on getting safely to shore. Once your ex-fiancee sees that you're going to be okay, and that you have someone to help you, she'll feel safer to join you.

[oldenoughtoknow]

TMW, I think stella74 and I are saying the same thing. You do need to be confident and ready for this challenge. Rebuilding trust is always a slippery task, and she doesn't know if she wants to even try to go down that path right now. You have to be really sure you're ready. This will not be an easy task for you, as already proven to this point. Her emotions have been all over the place. It is your job to maintain a steady, confident front. Be her source of strength and security. If she can't handle it (like her cancellation yesterday), you have to let her have the space.

 

I would definitely stand back for a while. Let her have her weekend. If she calls while she's away, be calm and nice, but keep the calls short. If she wants to vent, get off the phone immediately. You guys have done this enough. Steadily let her know that you have strength and direction...the best path out of the shark infested waters. You have to be her rock. No talking about the past or the future. You are only interested in the present. Let her miss you. Let her see your new confidence. And let her come to you.

 

Her trust, just like your confidence, isn't something that switches on like a light bulb. It takes time and consistent evidence to change your beliefs.

[Tell Me Why]

Yep you are right. I've slowly been building up the confidence and she will eventually see it. I'll back off and let her come to me, and when she does come to me, I'll make sure I show her that confidence. I won't bug her about us spending time together and if she cancels, I will shrug it off as no big deal. I will show her that I'm strong. Each time she sees me, she'll be seeing a better, confident me. I know I am on the right path either way, if not for us getting back together, then for myself. I need this confidence not just for her, but more importantly, for MYSELF.

[peaches80]

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I myself am engaged right now so I can give you my 2 cents.

If my fiance told me that he wasn't sure about getting married, I think I would discuss it with him first to see why. If he then was still unsure, I think I would call it off. It would bother me for the rest of my life thinking that my husband may not have really wanted to be with me.

I am a big advocator for getting counseling. I think if we both knew we loved each other I would definetly get us involved in that to see if we could work through some of his "committment" issues.

I know it is probably tough for you right now. All I can say is that if it was meant to be, it will be. It is a possibility that God has someone else for you instead. Hang in there! You are in my prayers....

[Tell Me Why]

Thanks stella, rich, and peaches for your advice. She called me last night and wants to get together this weekend. I'll let you know the outcome.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Good luck, TMW. Stay the course.

[Tell Me Why]

Thank you as always rich for your insight. We are going to dinner tonight. I picked the place and time. I will bring my confidence and my smile and we will see what happens. I'll report back.

[Tell Me Why]

Well, I just want to thank you rich and everybody else for the good advice and kind words but I think that the book is closed on this one.

 

We went out to dinner tonight. Before dinner, I was over at her place and had to look something up on her computer...on the dropdown menu of the Internet explorer, I found the sites link removed, link removed, and link removed. My heart just sank in an instant.

 

Being stupid, I confronted her about it and she got mad that I was snooping. I apologized and then we went out to dinner at which she proceeded to tell me that she wanted a clean slate and just wanted to start things over and date me but that she was going to live her life and she had every right to see what else is out there.

 

We aren't together, and she can do what she wants, but the fact that only 2 months after the breakup she is on internet dating sites just kills me. Even more than the fact we aren't together. It just sucks and I don't know what to do. Does this mean she never cared about me? I mean, I haven't even given any thought whatsoever to looking on one of those sites, I told her and she doesn't believe me.

 

I don't know what to do....we went to dinner and a movie and had a good time, like a date, but I just can't get over the fact that she is on these sites. It's too painful for me right now to hang out with her. She also says that she won't feel like she wants to be in a serious relationship with me for a long time and just wants to date casually. I can't keep putting myself through this. Every time after we hang out, when I get home, I am in tears. This isn't fair to me. I love her, but apparently she doesn't love me anymore.

 

How should I proceed? I don't think I am going to contact her for a while, and if she contacts me, I'm not sure I want to respond right now. Maybe I'll let her see that I am gone for good and maybe she'll miss me. I don't know. I'm a wreck and I don't know whether to just move on or keep trying to get her back.

[Ms Darcy]

Sometimes it's best to end contact for a while and move on for exactly this reason. It hurts too much to keep trying and you feel strung along for months. Of course it's up to you, but you should do what's best for your mental health.

[spinstermanquee]

My dear... maybe it's time to let this bird fly the coop... water under the bridge and all that.

 

It's been two months and no progress (actually the opposite). Every test she threw at you was one more opportunity, but it wasn't really clear. Every challenge she presented resulted in confusion and anxiety. Each time she pushed you away or pulled you closer, you got (and gave) mixed messages.

 

When you find the partner who's right for you, most of this melts away. Not to say there will never be any problems to overcome... but games don't get played and usually when faced with a potentially relationship-threatening situation one or the other poops or gets off the pot dragging it out only muddies the waters.

 

How do those waters get so muddy? Neither one of you could make up your mind, and you both have been just twisting in the wind waiting for some outside force to push you one way or the other. As a result you both of you sent out crossed signals and misinformation. ](*,)

 

Maybe it's time to throw the fish back and consider it a lesson learned. You will love again, and better and deeper and more maturely. You won't get scared next time and throw her back prematurely, because you've been down that road before and know where it leads.

 

This is the beauty of life. You always get a second chance, and if you learned your lesson properly history won't repeat itself. Good luck and God bless.

[Tell Me Why]

So you think there is no chance of reconciling in the future? I mean, if she was truly done with me, she probably wouldn't even want to see me at all. She still wants me in her life, or so she says, and she wants a clean slate. Maybe I am the one who needs to let her go but its so hard because I love her and really do want to be with her.

[Soul Bear]

wow.......

Seriously wow......

 

This an excellent thread with some REALLY knowledgeable advice.

 

TMW- My finace left me of 4.5 years 2 months ago. It was OK at first, but i pushed, i begged, i pleaded, i made gestures of thoughtful gifts and things...I sent emails asking her to come back even tho she asked for NC for a few months.

 

All I did was push her away...the more I got in touch, the colder she got, to the point where i feel hated and looked down upon.

 

YOU, have a chance to make things right here, and I envy your situation. I hope day I can get the chance, as you have right now for a possible reconciliation.

 

I will be keeping up with this thread, as there is some of the best advice I have seen.

 

I wish you all the best bro. You can do it, just re read this entire thread again and again, and you will gain some more perspective.

 

Really proud of you.

 

Soul

[Ms Darcy]

So you think there is no chance of reconciling in the future? I mean, if she was truly done with me, she probably wouldn't even want to see me at all. She still wants me in her life, or so she says, and she wants a clean slate. Maybe I am the one who needs to let her go but its so hard because I love her and really do want to be with her.

 

We cannot tell you that there is no chance (nor can we tell you that it will happen). I usually say hear all sides on an issue and try what works for you. If it's not working for you, then the experience will teach you how to move forward in the future.

 

Wendymg gives you good advice above.