DaisyB
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ziggystar -- I told him I wanted to see him very badly, but more than that, I wanted things to be right between us, and I couldn't come over knowing that things weren't right. He said he definitely understood -- he wanted to see me, but he didn't want to pressure me, didn't want me to come if it made me feel weird, etc. I think he really does understand where I'm coming from, and that makes it easier. He's written me twice today (including before work this morning) just to say hi, and ask if I slept okay. It's not that I truly believe he's not in love with me -- I suspect that he is -- but the fact that he says he isn't is still an issue. He's been showing me that he loves me and wants me, but he still isn't saying it. For him, I think saying he's in love with me, getting back together, and getting married are all the same thing, and he's still scared of all of that.
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Re laundry -- It's been 4 months for me, and I still have my ex's clothes at my place! When we first broke up, I kept thinking I would give them back right away, but they've just stayed here. . . they're slowly moving to the back of the closet, though (not through any real effort on my part, I just naturally put my clothes closest to the front). They're about halfway to the back right now. Do you think when they reach the back I will win a prize? Do you want your things/clothes back right now, or are you just wondering if they will make him miss you? If you don't need them back right away, I would leave them there for a while. . . they'll serve as little reminders of you. I know it feels like it's been forever, but I think that he's probably still in shock right now (from the end of your relationship as well as from his mom's divorce) and it may take him several weeks, or even months, to truly miss you. Keep being strong and patient. I'll be thinking about you.
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Hi, phx. . . I feel for your situation. It sounds like your ex's relationship to his family (especially his mom) is really coloring his thoughts about marriage right now. He was scared to begin with, and after the news about the divorce, he may be thinking (subconsciously) that marriage only results in pain. I'm sure he sees your relationship as one that will result in marriage, so if he's terrified of marriage, he's probably terrified of your relationship -- hence his ending it with little explanation. (Saying you don't "mesh" probably means that he's found some small imperfections in your relationship, and has blown them out of proportion in his head. After all, his mom's and step-dad's marriage ended and it appeared perfect, so why wouldn't your "perfect" relationship end the same way?) I think the best things for you to do right now are to give him his space (which you're doing) and be as patient and understanding with him as you can, if/when you do resume contact. It sounds like you have a lot of love for each other (always a good thing). I think you're on the right track with NC for now. In a few weeks, maybe you can try a little more contact and see how that goes.
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Despite all your warnings we've been talking all this week. And it's been really good. Lots of contact (he initiates, mostly) and lots of good conversations. Then tonight, he asked me to come over and spend the night. He didn't quite beg, but almost. . . but I refused. God, that was hard to do. I want so badly to do it. . . but I keep hearing him in my head saying "I'm not in love with you." Even if I could block that out tonight, I'd be hearing it all day long tomorrow. . . Did I do the right thing? I know in my heart I did. I'm just scared about the repercussions. I refused because I didn't feel right about it, not to make him pursue. . . but I still hope that he pursues anyway. Do all guys like to be challenged? Or will it make him lose interest? (Not just tonight -- I sure hope one refusal won't shut him down -- but repeated refusals.) Is his sex drive powerful enough to send him on the road to decision? What do you think, guys?
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I like your questions, ziggystar. . . Of course I would prefer instantaneous with no problems (who wouldn't?) but I can't see that as a realistic option. I don't see how it would be possible (at least for me) at this point. Even if my ex and I do end up back together, we'd have a lot of issues we'd have to work out (separately and together) before that happens. And after it happens, I can't see things being instantly wonderful just because we're dating again. We'd still be aware of our issues and problems, and be constantly working to improve ourselves and our relationship. That's not to say that the relationship would be all work -- of course it would be fun again -- but I don't think getting back together equals instant good times. And I think that couples who get back together too quickly (without addressing the issues that broke them up in the first place) are destined to break up again. So I guess I've signed up for slow and bumpy. Pretty unsettling ride, but the journey is worth it.
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You are right, S&D, I think he does need to worry about our future. From what he said yesterday, I think this weekend scared him pretty badly. I think it's the most scared he's been anytime since the break-up. He said he stayed in the entire weekend but didn't get any work done, and he got out one of his old journals from when things were really good between us, and reread the whole thing. I get the idea that he's really started thinking about what he wants, and really starting to imagine life without me. But I'm not sorry I talked to him yesterday. I'm glad he got shaken up by the weekend, because I think he needed it to start addressing our relationship issues, but I also think we needed to talk together about some of those issues. It's hard to know the balance. . . but now that we've started talking about the relationship, I don't want to shut down that communication. If I truly hadn't been ready to talk to him yesterday, I would have told him. But I was ready to do it and be calm and controlled about it. (Just so you guys know, I have another party to go to on Saturday, and another trip planned for the weekend after that. Enough to make him a little nervous, I think.) It makes me feel bad to think about "making him nervous" as a positive thing. I'm certainly not planning these things to make him nervous. But he does seem to need a little jump start to get him thinking about commitment. It works well that I can grow as a person and cause him to think at the same time. . .
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It's a gut feeling with me. . . just a feeling that my ex is the one I'm supposed to be with. Of course he's attractive, funny, kind, honest, generous. . . we have mutual interests and values, all of that. And he makes me feel like I'm the sexiest, most intelligent, strongest woman on earth. He's even been good to me during the break-up (which presents problems in itself -- sending mixed messages). But I haven't given up hope that we'll get back together because there's something in me that truly believes that we'll get through this. I can already tell improvement in myself and in our interaction together -- we're becoming more careful listeners, and much better communicators. We're becoming better at expressing our feelings and at understanding how the other is feeling. We're nowhere near perfect, but I can sense the improvement. (I'm going with positive energy too, S&D!) If we get back together, we will get married. There's truly nowhere else to go from here. I know that if we get back together, we will both approach it with wholehearted commitments, and marriage will be the natural outcome (we both agree on that). But I'm no longer looking at marriage as the final prize -- but as a continual work-in-progress. Personal growth and relationship growth are never finished.
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Wow, guys! Looks like you've solved all my problems. Funny -- I have no idea what this story must sound like to an outsider, but I'm sure in some ways it's clearer to you than it is to me. (And of course, there are some things I know that you all don't, just because I know our history and personalities, etc.) Kipster, I haven't said "I love you" since last Thursday, and you're right -- I probably shouldn't have said it then or the time before, either. I guess I was getting more comfortable (?), or maybe just stupider. . . I'm still thinking about the rest of your advice. I was truly glad to talk to him yesterday and clear up some of my questions. And judging from his reactions, I still have the "upper hand" here. But maybe I should have waited till today to talk to him. . . I don't know. Water under the bridge now, I suppose. Do you really think he's that hooked?
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Thanks, Berty and S&D. . . you guys are the best. I'm back from my weekend -- I had a fun time, but I had a lot going on inside (of course). I went to the bbq on Friday and saw his parents -- strange, but very good. It was wonderful to see them, and not at all as awkward as I had thought it would be. The strangest thing was how little our interaction with each other had changed. We didn't avoid the fact that the ex and I are broken up, but everything else (jokes, stories, etc) was just the same as it had been three months ago. I got some flirty attention over the weekend, but nothing intense. Enough to be mildly flattering, but that's it. And I had a great time with my friend -- we've known each other since college, so he knows me very well, but our relationship has always been extremely platonic. Which was exactly what I needed this weekend -- platonic intimacy. When I came back home, the ex had sent me two emails, and IMed as soon as I got on the computer. He apologized for contacting me, but he said that he'd missed me a lot over the weekend, and needed to talk for a little bit. We ended up talking on the phone for a while this afternoon. This was great for me, because I had wanted to talk to him, too -- I wanted to clear up the "in love" thing. I was so upset by what he said that I didn't stop to think (until this weekend) what he meant by it. He says that he loves me, that he's attracted to me physically, that he misses me, that he still has "feelings" for me, and that he misses doing things with me. So what does "I'm not in love with you" mean? I asked him, and he said, "it means that I don't feel about you the way I did when things were really good between us." Well, duh! I don't feel that way either. But I still consider myself "in love," meaning that I still desire a romantic relationship with him, even though my feelings are much more complex than they were before, before we went through all this bad stuff. And I told him so. I also told him that I wanted to work on it, and he said that he "almost did," but he still wanted to take the summer to do some serious thinking. He asked if he thought my parents would still approve of our relationship if we got back together. He also said (several times) that if we got back together we were definitely getting married, which he said was scary, but also comforting. All of that sounds good, but until I hear "I want to get back together," I'm just not buying it. I mean, it's nice to hear (of course), and I believe that he means everything he says, but he seems so confused right now that I can't read anything into his "good" comments. I'm also still holding by the "no visits to his house" rule. I just can't be physically intimate with him while he's saying "I'm not in love with you," no matter what he means by it. I want to see him before he leaves for the summer, but no physicality. Which is too bad. . . but definitely for the best. So that's the weekend update. Tune in tomorrow for more of Daisy's Exciting Love Life. . .
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EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.
DaisyB replied to shockeddismayed's topic in Getting Back Together
I disagree with GeeCee (much as I hate to do that ). I think that if you end up back together, your relationship will be much stronger. If, at the end of this, you find you don't trust each other as much anymore, I don't think you'll end up together -- I think you'll go your separate ways. Of course, I don't know if you'll end up together or apart, but I do think that if you end up together, your relationship will be better than it once was. I don't think her indecision for three months has anything to do with the quality or quantity of her love for you. She could be very much in love with you, but simply confused and/or insecure. You've been together 7 years -- of course your love isn't going to feel as "pure" as it once did. I'm sure in those 7 years you've both gone through periods of "hating" each other, or not understanding each other, but I imagine that that has deepened your relationship, rather than corrupted it. I base that only on experience and stories -- I've known many people who've broken up and gotten back together (and gotten married), and their love doesn't seem to be any less "real" than those couples who have never broken up. If anything, their love seems to be stronger, because the experience of loss made them value each other more. -
Bad night. He called tonight to chat about the male admirers/swimsuit debacle. Oh, I played it SO cool. I made him do most of the talking, which was good. We talk for a while, and I'm feeling really good. So good, in fact, at the end of the conversation, I say again "I love you." Why, why, why? You would think that I would have learned from Monday morning. Or maybe, on some level, I said it again because I was hoping to talk about Monday morning? He paused, said "I love you, too," and then another pause. . . "but I'm not in love with you." This is the first time he's said that. At the beginning of the break-up, he said "I'm not sure if I'm in love with you." And I assumed that was still how he felt -- still unsure. Well, I lost it. I tried to play it cool, but I just couldn't. I started crying, we hung up, I called back. We were pretty good at talking, all throughout this, which was good. We didn't hang up on each other, we seemed to hear and understand (relatively calmly, even though I was crying) what the other person had to say. When I called him back I told him that I didn't realize he wasn't "in love." I thought he was still debating. But now that he says he's not, I told him that I needed to move on. He asked what that meant. I said that it meant I couldn't come over anymore, and that I didn't know when I'd be contacting him again. It meant that it would be easier for me to start dating again -- not that I was going to go out tomorrow and find a date, but just that it would be easier to do so eventually. He was pretty shaken up by all that. I'm pretty shaken up, too, (obviously) but I think I did okay. I really don't want to see him right now, or talk to him. So it wasn't a "move" so much as an honest statement of need. And truly, I'm not much worse off than I was before. His positive behavior (the good things he was doing/thinking/feeling before he announced he wasn't in love) hasn't changed. He's still undecided as to whether or not he will fall back in love. He's still looking to the summer to help him make some sort of decision. Now, lest you get the wrong idea -- I'm not actually giving up on him. But the game has changed (yet again). Maybe it will shake him up enough to make him realize what he's losing. Or maybe it will finally give me enough strength to move on.
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This, by the way, is the "semi-reassuring" message I sent. (Some of you will probably think it's way too reassuring!) I'm sorry it's weird for you to think about me at a party with XXX's friends. I didn't mean to dodge the idea of me getting hit on. . . I didn't want to say, "that won't happen," because it might. I really have no control over someone else hitting on me. But I think my response is the important part, and maybe it will make you feel better to know that I don't really want to get hit on. I do want to see XXX, and I like his friends, and I think the party sounds like fun. So I'm going to go. And since there's swimming, I'm going to be wearing a swimsuit. But I wish you could come, too. . . and I wish YOU could see me in my swimsuit.
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The latest: He hasn't been in much contact since I left his house Monday morning. Tuesday night, I got a "sorry I missed you" IM after I'd gone to bed. Yesterday he didn't turn on his computer at all. Today, he sent me a brief message that said he'd been really busy, and that maybe we could talk later. Nothing rude, just not much. Kind of unsettling after my botched "I love you" on Monday morning. This afternoon, we IMed briefly. . . he said he wasn't going to his sister's for the barbeque (why not? he didn't say), and that I should go if it wasn't too weird. I said that I might stop by for a little while, but I'm leaving tomorrow night to visit the single male mutual friend (the one whose friends are interested in me, supposedly). I could tell that he was a little jealous. . . especially when I said that we planned to hang out by the pool. He sent me another message later: It's weird for me to think about you at a party with a bunch of XXX's male friends (XXX has no female friends) in your bathing suit. Especially since you were just shopping for a bikini, and especially since you appear to sort of be dodging the idea of getting hit on. But I hope you have a good time, whatever you do and wherever you are this weekend. Take care of yourself. Which should make me feel good, but instead just sort of made me feel weird. I sent him a semi-reassuring message, but I had a hard time finding the words for it. What could I say? I hate the idea of making him insecure, but surely he knows that I would rather be with him. I have no desire to date any of these men right now. It's flattering to get hit on, in a cheap thrills sort of way, but it doesn't mean anything to me. And until he makes a decision, I have to prepare for the worst -- and that means keeping my options open. I wished I could be entirely reassuring ("Don't worry -- of course I only want to be with you") or entirely cold ("I'm going to flirt with other men and I don't care what you think"). But I had to be somewhere in the middle.
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EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.
DaisyB replied to shockeddismayed's topic in Getting Back Together
Oh S&D, I think you've done well. Very well. I absolutely would not worry about "breaking the rules" (after all, she's a psych major!) and instead concentrate on what YOU need to do. You laid out your feelings, but did it with dignity. I don't think there's anything wrong with letting her know you want her back, but also letting her know that you won't wait around forever. Pointing out the "fight" was an especially nice move. I have no idea what she'll do now, but I think you need to keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like she's truly committed to making a decision (one way or another), I just don't know how long she'll need to do it. If she's anything like my ex, it could be months. . . the good news is that she is thinking, hard, about what she wants to do next. You also both seem to be listening to each other very well, which is crucial. What did you decide to do about her birthday? -
Some very interesting thoughts. . . keep them coming! Lots of people have told me that I need to make him worry -- be unpredictable, keep him on his toes. That may be true to an extent -- I don't want either of us growing complacent and taking the other for granted. It's fun to be a little unpredictable -- to try new things and tell him about them, or surprise him with something I've done. But I have deep reservations about purposely making him insecure. I think that could create serious trust issues down the road. I want him to marry me because he wants to be with me, not because he's afraid of being without me. Obviously, we can't go on like this forever -- we both know that -- but the fact is that he just doesn't know right now. I'm free to move on if I want to -- he's given me that closure -- but I choose not to right now. So that means I have to deal with the way things are between us. I struggle a lot with the balance between individual needs and relationship needs, and when we should be selfless vs. when we should be selfish. I agree with strong1 that we shouldn't be doormats -- but I don't feel like he's forced me into doing anything. Every time he's invited me over (and a few times, I've said no), I've gone because I wanted to go, and because I have been strong enough to live with the consequences (ie, that spending the night at his house doesn't change things). He's accepting the summer position in a different city, so that means we have about four more weeks in the same town. Yikes. (He'll be back in August.) I have no idea how much contact we'll have over the summer -- he's said he wants to use the time to "meditate and reflect," so that could mean he wants no contact, or very minimal contact. I'm not expecting an IM or phone call everyday -- and we won't be able to see each other unless we plan a visit, and I doubt that will happen. So we'll see what changes the summer brings. . . I'm scared about it and grateful for it at the same time. I hope he comes back with some more definite answers. I got two interesting pieces of mail today. One was a letter from his mom -- I wrote her about three weeks ago -- saying that she missed me, that she wanted to reach out to me but she wasn't sure how, and that she knew that things would work out for the best. It was really good to read. The other was an invitation from his sister to a barbecue (his sister's birthday). I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that. . . I don't know if he'll be there, and even if he's not, it might be too awkward to be there without him. But I've also thought, "it's an evening, I should just go for it." We'll see.
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$%#&! I lost my lengthy update post. . . just spent 20 minutes typing it! In brief. . . he hinted he wanted to see me last night, I said I wanted to come over, he said he wanted me to come, but was I making the right decision? I went. The right decision? Who knows anymore? It was all good until saying goodbye this morning -- there was my awkward lingering in the doorway (I wondered if he'd say I love you, or if I should say it), then I left, then I came back and said I couldn't leave without saying I love you. He gave me a confused "I love you too," and I left again in a hurry. This morning I thought I'd blown it with the "I love you" stuff (why did I have to make a big scene about it?), but now I'm starting to wonder -- was he too sleepy to notice? Was this really as big a deal as I've made it in my head? Probably not. He knows I love him. I know he loves me. Saying it out loud isn't related to the love issue, it's related to the relationship issue, which is obviously in conflict right now. And sadly, spending the night at his house seems to do nothing to resolve the relationship issue (at least, not in the short-term). Although it sure is fun. So -- that's where we are. Progress? Backsliding? I have no idea. He usually plays basketball on Tuesday nights, and I haven't heard from him since I left his house this morning. The apple stuff. . . weird. I'm sure they take the ads from key words in our posts, like you said Strong1. I think we should try to make it happen on every page. Any random topics for this one?
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ConfusedBloke -- that's what keeps me going, too. Stories like that. I also have several friends/acquaintances who have broken up and gotten back together -- and in some cases, married. They all said the same thing that yours did: that they needed to break up to fix the relationship, and that their marriage/current relationship never would have worked without the break-up. Some of the break-ups lasted a year or longer, and some of them dated other people, too. So that gives me hope. I don't know whether or not it's false hope for my situation, but those are true stories. Berty -- my roommate "found out" that I went to see my ex recently, and boy, did I feel guilty. She didn't say anything -- just gave me a strange look -- but I felt like I'd done something really wrong. I couldn't really (or didn't want to) explain it to her, so I just kind of let it drop. I've tried to imagine starting over with someone new. . . it's very hard for me to picture. I can imagine going on a casual date with someone, but starting a serious relationship all over again. . . ugh. It repulses me on several different levels. I haven't been able to get to that "new beginning excitement" phase (even in my imagination) yet.
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Amidst all these apple analogies, I thought I'd post an update. . . With my new-found freedom, I emailed him last night some more of my thoughts on the relationship. That's right -- the big no-no. I even mentioned the m-word a few times. But at this point, what's to lose? He IMed last night after I'd already gone to bed, and twice again tonight, while I was out (I love when I'm unavailable without even trying!) and said thanks for the email, and that he wanted to talk to me soon. So, so far, so good. . . By the way, Strong1, I would also be a Granny Smith. No contest on that one.
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If this getting-back-together stuff doesn't work out, you can always get a job as the eNotAlone spokesperson!
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Rich, I think you did the right thing. This is not a decision you can make for her. . . scary as it is, the ball is in her court, and has to be. You've done so well and gotten so strong -- all while remaining patient and loving with your ex. A model for us all. . .
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TIME FOR CHANGE!! THERE'S A NEW GAL IN TOWN!!!!
DaisyB replied to GeeCee's topic in Getting Back Together
Scout, good for you for standing up for yourself and telling him what you wanted to say! I know, the aftermath is scary, but bravo! -
Thank you guys so much -- GeeCee, Belle, Strong1. . . I feel stronger just reading your words. S&D -- your father's words (or Beckett's) are wonderful. . . I will keep seeking that peace. I went back to bed after this morning's chaos, but not before -- oh, yes -- contacting the ex. He called me back this afternoon, and we talked about last night. I know that contacting him was a rule-breaking thing to do, but I'm glad I did it. It helped me get some closure on the conversation (well, as much closure as we can get, at this point), and I guess you know by now that I'm a fan of honesty. I didn't want to keep these feelings all bottled up so that they exploded the next time I talked to him, or that they festered and made me a bitter old woman. I didn't get too dramatic with it -- just said that I'm glad we talked about the things we talked about last night, but the conversation also made me uneasy. . . and I gave some reasons why. Nothing accusatory ("you never know what you want") but truthful ("I'm frustrated and scared because I don't know what's going to happen"). It felt SO good. And you know what? It's time to change the game. From here on out I'm contacting him if I want to. I think I'm strong enough to do that now. I took a risk last night and this afternoon to express my feelings honestly, but -- I hope -- with dignity. If my honesty turns him away, then at least I can take comfort in knowing that I did all I could do. If my honesty wins him back, then I'll know he's coming back for the real me. In the end, that's all I have to offer, anyway. So -- once more into the breach, dear friends. Older and wiser, every day.
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Thank you so much for your quick repsonse, S&D. I've re-read it several times over. I might even print it out so I can keep reading it. I spent a mostly sleepless night thinking about our conversation. . . I wish I knew why he'd called me to have the whole relationship talk, if his mentality is still "nothing had changed." I wish I knew why he seemed so eager to contact me these past few weeks if he doesn't want anything to change. What is he thinking? Why is this still so hard? Bad morning. . .
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I wish we could curse here. I've got a string of expletives running through my head right now. . . Well, things HAD been going well. I got home tonight and there was a message from the ex that he wanted to talk. . . about Us. Sure enough. . . he had heard that some friends of a friend were interested in me, and he was bothered about that. . . which went into a three-hour discussion about the relationship. I admit it. I went into it hoping that he'd had some sort of revelation. I should have waited till tomorrow, so I could gear myself up for it, but I was just too excited. I tried to play it cool before I spilled my guts. . . but out they came. Good, in some ways. Good to get all of it out on the table. Bad, in so many others. We didn't get anything resolved. He still wants to be broken up, he's afraid the changes in us won't last, he's afraid of getting married. . . He also said true but horrible things, like he wasn't interested in dating right now, but he might be soon (which I knew, but I hated to hear him say), that breaking up with me was the last resort -- that he hated to do it, but he couldn't do anything else (bad in the sense of making me feel like I really blew it), that he didn't understand why we didn't work before, and until he understood, he didn't want to be together again. I tried so hard not to plead. I think I did okay, but any sort of "aloofness" was long gone by the end of the conversation. He initiated the talk, otherwise I never would have had it. So how did it end up with ME doing the pleading? What's the next step? NC again? I doubt he'll be trying to contact me every day now. All that flirting and playing aloof, down the drain in three hours. I feel like I blew it, and it wasn't even my fault. I said to him, "I wish I had the chance to prove to you that the changes will last," and he said, "I wish you didn't have to wish for that." What sort of reply is THAT? Like so many of us, I'm now drafting a letter. Don't worry, I'll wait before I send it. It's taking all the willpower I can muster not to call him again right now. Luckily I am now SuperDaisy, stronger than a locomotive. I will not call him back. I will write him a pleading letter and not send it. Then I will write him a nasty letter and not send it. Then next weekend I will visit those friends of a friend who, apparently, think I am such a good catch, and flirt my heart out.
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Just a little Saturday afternoon update. . . Our contact seems to be increasing. . . slowly. I saw him again this week (late-night), and we've had several lengthy conversations (never discussing the relationship, of course). Yesterday he contacted me from out-of-town just to say hi, which was very good. And today, for the first time in over a month, I initiated contact -- just a quick IM. It's not that I "needed" to, but the fact that I felt comfortable enough to send one was a big step. I'm also starting to change my mentality on this whole situation. At first, I thought there would be some dramatic "let's get back together" talk after a period of no contact. Now, I wonder if it will be more subtle than that. . . just a slow working back together that takes place over many months. I've also started to realize that even after a "let's get back together" talk (if there ever is one), things would have to progress slowly. . . we've been through so much these past few months that we could never just jump back to where we were. And I guess we wouldn't want to. . . the relationship wasn't working before, so of course we'd have to make some changes if we want it to work this time around. So simple. . . but so hard.