ziggystar

i think overall the sex question is tricky. i'm a man. i find that i've fallen into a pattern with concern to "when to have sex?" and the pattern has stabilized to "on the 3rd date." how i got to that pattern concerns 2 points. one, going too fast suggest that's all i'm after. two, waiting too long and the woman thinks i'm not attracted. so that's the establish pattern i've been taking. but.... this pattern is ludicrous. it doesn't take into account, both party seems to substitute sex for real intimacy. and real intimacy takes time. it takes time to establish. once having sex, there's this sense that you know the inner depths of another person, because of the physically intimate nature of sex. but it doesn't account for the mental and emotional connection. you get a false sense of intimacy that leads to misunderstanding down the line (which is not too much later). So now, i choose to delay having sex too soon to opt for more honesty to begin with, expressing this very concern at the moment when sex as a normal consequence is about to happen. if the person is mature enough then they'll understand. if not, then it becomes a red flag on them. as far as having the will power to do it, i'm 38 and should have learned something by now. there's no guaranties, but by being a little more cautious and honest, you can only better the situation.

Well, here's my take. It's a philosophical one. Free will allows you to choose an action or inaction that produces a consequence. Even if you do nothing, the consequences are usually nothing. Fate is deemed fate after the fact. Something is considered fate only when it has come to pass. In that position you can see the choices you have made to lead up to that point. So if you ask me, it's free will. Free will is the only thing that you can control to some degree. Fate is a status and only last up to the current moment. Meaning fate does not account for the future, which is always unknown. Simply because you're in love with someone at the moment can never guaranty your future state. Put your faith in yourself, rather then some fairy tale.

I'm new to this thread. and i guess i'm responding to the original post from months ago, but i'll give my personal perspective. I'm a man. I've been looking for a serious relationship. I have not been successful. My last 3 relationships have been only 3 months long and all ended with the woman leaving. All the women were in their 30's. All claimed they were looking for a good man. all were ambivalent about children, family and commitment. all were looking to be rescued, but was also placing a face out for the modern independent strong woman (past roles versus modern roles creates friction internally). I was honest and monagamous. I am not without my faults, but self-subjectively, nothing that bad. Maybe i was too safe for these women. They seem to want something more "romantic", ie. drama. as their current boyfriends seem aloof and distant and challenging. or maybe i'm self criticizing myself for not being up to par. but here is my current outlook going forward. I'm not in a hurry to have sex with a woman. I have found that it promotes a false intimacy that creates a artificial sense of closeness that emotionally and mentally isn't there yet. but i find that if I do not engage in sex or towards sex by a certain time (I'm talking about approximately 2 weeks or 3-4 dates), the woman gets insecure about themselves and lose interest. it's a "catch 22". I've even prefaced the "why's" on taking things slow and have gotten a cold reception or lost of interest. As far as friends are concerned, i find that it is important to have friends but they are not substitutes for a romantic relationship.besides, as i get older the only friends i have are either younger people that are going through things i do not wish to go through again, even vicariously. or older people or my age who are single who seemed to have an even more disfunctional view of relationships then i do. these older people act much like a mirror to me and reflect much of what i see in myself to an extreme, which scares the living daylights out of me. for example, i know a 72 year old woman who called me from the hospital to ask if i can pick her up because they would not release her without somebody picking her up. she's never been married and hasn't had a relationship in over 30 years and hasn't anybody to call. it's frightening, considering i'm not even so close to her that i even knew she was in the hospital. as far as loneliness, it's a state of mind. sometimes i feel entirely disconnected with the world (and that's mostly when i'm without a relationship) and sometimes i feel completely connected with the world (mostly when i'm in a relationship). i suppose a mix of the 2 would be best. i believe it is absolutely natural that we have lasting "romantic" relationship. it's part of the foundation of what makes us. without it, we begin to disintergrate. it's the building blocks of community. without these different types of connection, we no longer can sustain ourselves in true biological terms and in mental and emotional terms. that being said, i don't have a clue in my own predicament. but it's seems to me that this thread is an age old problem. if we seemingly want the same things, why can't we get it together?

first off, let me say marriage is not a dirty word. when did it become a bad word and have these connotations attached to it. i'm 38. still single. still want to start a family. still want to get married. i hope i'm not too late. as long as i breath, i'll work towards it. but i do suppose i'd hope it's sooner then later as i want to have children. in reference to someone that mention they were a musician/artist. i'm one also. i have played music for years in front of an audience and also have done art photography and still do. and i realize a long time ago that i drifted into these fields because of the incredible high i got from the adulation i received from fans and artist alike. my emotions had a symbiotic connection to how i connected with my audience. it became my substitute for intimate connection. realizing that, i still perform music and do my art, because it's a part of me now, but i find my intimacy (real intimacy) elsewhere. and that has been in relationships. although i haven't met a person that has lasted more then 3 months, i'm still looking. in all of the recent cases, things didn't work out and the other person left me. they were intense, but lacked viability. these women were in there mid 30's.

glad to see that this post has incited some debate and banter. it was fun. farewell...

and one more thing. i felt 100% better when i let go of the hope. the hope that I FELT was more to offset the gut feeling of her not coming back, which rang out to be true. that was a week ago and i felt no urge to come back to this forum. i felt finally resolved and moving forward. but i came back to post this, because i felt i should share my particular insight with you all. it may or may not apply to your situations, or you may want to hear what i have to say. but i owe this forum at least that much, because without it, i would have probably lost it. this is my contribution back. ultimately i could have just left having resolved my issue and never posted again. but i didn't want to do that without posting the final chapter (which hardly anybody does on this forum, leaving plenty of questions from users who connected to each other). it's a show of my gratitude for all you out there. thanks.

to everyone, it's not about hating the ex or getting colder. it's not about degrading the ex either or revenge. the ex is a human being worthy of love, but to pine over them when they have rejected your love makes no sense. it's about dealing with reality. the reality is the misery you MIGHT be experiencing (if at all), is in your hands. so stop hurting yourself (if you are) and move on with the beautiful life you have. if you don't feel hurt or miserable and believe that you're fine with the hope of getting back you ex, then there's nothing to say. but if you do feel miserable and hurt from the experience of wanting your ex back, then you have to stop and think.

raider5, you take things way too personally. it's not meant to denounce your feelings. you have every right to how you feel. but if you make bold statements, especially on this forum, it is fair game for debate. like... yes, i would throw myself on a grenade for my wife, but we're not talking about a wife. we're talking about a girl who dumped you. if you want an analogy of of the grenade, it's like: would you jump on a grenade thrown at you by your wife. i'm sorry if you feel it's an attack on you. it isn't. it's just a differing point of view. and should be taken just as that nothing more, nothing less. the weight of the world need not be on that.

true love is not when you love something more then yourself. you need to love yourself above all before you can share that love. because without that love for yourself, you have nothing to offer anybody else. when you place them above you, then how can you offer anything? and as far as improvement. improvement is great, but it's really more about accepting who you are right now.

here's another thought. it's an esteem issue. if you can't let go, what is it that is so scary of letting go? it seems to me that if you are happy with yourself and your life, all you do by letting go is going back to that happy self and life. really think about that. and if you unhappy with yourself and life, stop focusing on them and do something about it. no other person on this earth was made to make you happy, because once you give that power to them, you also give them the power to make you miserable. which the proof is how you are feeling now on this forum. you are the only person on this earth that is responsible for your happiness. so go out there and do something about it. we are all worthy of love, but especially from ourselves. so stop beating yourself up and live.

give up your hope and replace it with reality. here is the truths. we all have been on this forum talking about getting back our exes. we all know we can't push it. we know them coming back is in their hands. we hope that they will make a decision to come back. we hope that by some miracle they will see the light and realize that we're the one. we've placed too much faith in them and something outside ourselves. instead of placing faith in yourself. you deserve to be treated better then they have treated you. you've let all your boundaries go for them. you've lost yourself in them. stop and regain your self and move on. their space issue is unfair. they have all the information they need to keep going. yes, if they feel that they need space to sort things out, they owe it to themselves. but it just shows their indecision and at your cost. but you don't have to deal with their indecision, because you are not indecisive. yes, love is worth waiting for when you know they'll be back. but when they don't even know if they'll be back, how can you? not saying that there aren't situations where they come back, but it's slim and would require a lot of work. but in almost all cases when they do come back, is when you have let go. so as long as you wait, they will never come back. it's a catch 22. i've learned my lesson and i'm glad i went through it to find out. a lot of issues were brought to the surface and i am in the process of changing. i just want to share some of my discoveries, just in case you were having similar thoughts. move on and heal.

simple. there was more value placed on the dream then the reality. i know. i've done the same.

fantansia, i was trying to get my ex back like you. i have given up. i realize something. i was putting my ex before me. i put her in the higher power. i loved her more then i loved me. it's out of balance. the more i tried to reconcile, the more self esteem i lost. and if you have no self esteem, you're no good to anyone, your ex or you. let go.

i've had a series of 3 relationships in the past 3 years. all of them short, intense and ending up with the girl running away from me. each one taught me a lesson for the next girl. although i have changed in many ways, the outcome has still been the same. these women had commitment problems. but what i learned this last time around was that i was equally uncommited, and that their fears of commitment was more acute. as for me, i never have to face the fear of commitment because it was always elusive from me. and since in this culture men still usually are the ones that approach women. i have a tendency to choose women who have these issues. as much as i want a committed relationship, i am not even committed to myself or my life. my work is freelance. my interest are all over the place. my friends are scattered. i can't stand the mundane lifestyle of my family along with all their dysfunction. i hardly partcipate in anything with them. as a matter of fact i don't like participating in anything with too many people. i have no passion in my life. so when i get into a relationship, i jump at the chance to enmesh with someone and hitch a ride out of my life. but that's the rub: i find women who are running away from something to, but they are actively running and i am passive running. i'm waiting for my ship to come in and hitch a ride out. i want to coop someone else's life. while the women i choose are actively running, so they feel smothered having to support that extra weight in the process of running. and any commitment is too limiting to them. ultimately, it just says that these relationships could never work, no matter how much we changed. it would have to take an extraordinary set of circumstances for both of us to realize and change. and that change would have to come individually and separately. it was never meant to last. what i need to do now is to face up to my fears, find acceptance of my life in reality, build a committed life to myself with what i've got and heal all the self-loathing i've done to myself over the years. acceptance is key, because once you do that, you're free.

i think she's ambivalent. she's having commitment problems. basically, she's scared of the whole marriage and forever part. she feels the walls closing in and that all her dreams and fantasy are over. not that she might have any intention of doing all the things that she fantasized or dreamed of, but that their gone after she commits. forever is a long time. i'd say instate NC, because her ambivalence will not change as long as you are there for her. it's difficult but you have to let go, if there is any chance. and if she does change her mind, do not let down your boundaries. tell her if she really wants to get back together with you, she needs to seek counseling before that can happen.