SlipperySammy

Shy soul, I reqally appreciate you posts and perceptive, what do you specificaly suggest I do in the situation? Do you have nay examples?

Shy soul I think you make great points, my only defense to them is this has been a very long and ongoing issue and please note *In the begginning I was VERY subtle, loving, and caring....but it did nothing...I was forced to slowly become more blunt and less loving to try and see some results. I think if you look at this as they way I first tried dealing with this issue you are completely rigth, but I tried the caring an loving role for almost a year and NOTHING changed. Infact teh final straw was I went to the caring and loving extream and did basicaly what you suggested and we didn't have sex for six weeks! I think aftrer that I changed my strategy. "It's going to make her more scared of opening up sexually and hurt her self esteem. At best she'll do it cause she is scared of losing you, and then she won't be enjoying it cause she'll feel forced into it. And ultimately you would feel guilty as well. " *I agree with this, but like I said I tried the other route for almost a year and nothing changed so I was forced to try somthing different. I migth even argue that at this point I am not even trying to change any thing any more...mabye it is to late and all I am doing is explaining why I feel the way I do. She told me she wanted specifics. Think about the contraceptive example...think about the message it sends that I always have to buy the concentrecotive, and she will NEVER bring it up or put any effort into it. If I didn't buy it it wouldn't get bought or even mentioned. Somthing as little as "hey we should buy that stuff." would go miles in this situation. That screams at me that she could care less and either sex isn't even on her mind in any way shape or form ... or is it and she is avoiding it or somthing...i don't know. In other terms I have take inititive buying conctraceptive, I have to find time for us to make love, I have to initiate love making, I have to every thing....and of I don't it wont' happen or get brought up...think about the message that sends me.

PS I always claim that I am not asking for much...and re-reading the email I noticed I mentioned I wanted her to wear sexy underweaar or somthing...its not like I want her to even go out and buy any thing...she actually has several pairs of stuff from victoria secret she used to wear, but I havn't seen them in atleast a year.

Here is an email I sent her today about the issue. And I would also like to thank any one responding here it is really theraputic for me (no matter what you opinion is.), like I said earlier I have no on to talk to about this, it isn't like I can ask my buddies at the bar what they think. Email: "When can you deal with fighting with me? If you were here you wouldn't do or say any thing but cry. Addressing this issue has been like dealing with a brick wall...it won't talk to me or budge an inch. All of your body language and actions tell me that you don't want me... so what else am I to do or say? You said on Sunday "I screwed up." If Sunday was an isolated incident it would be normal and nothing would have happened, but all you do is send the message to me that you are not interested in me day in and day out. So it isn't a matter of 'screwing up' it is a matter of who you are...it is who you are so why should I expect you to change...but in turn why should I be happy? Try and follow this analogy: Our sex life is like forcing you to eat at Arbys with me, when you know I'll get mad if you say you don't like it or don't want to eat there. You would never volunteer to eat there but if I asked you to, you would grudgingly except...you also might avoid driving by there out of fear of me wanting to go there... or if I brought it up you might try and think of a better place to eat to get out of it. So even if I asked "do you like eating at arbys?" and you might say "yes," but I would still know you didn't like arbys Because you always avoided it...NEVER volunteered to go there and if we did go there you would only get a minimum amount of food and try and get it over with as quick as possible so that you could go on with your day. I mean you couldn't hide from me that you don't like arbys…you actions would be clear. The messages you send about sex crush me to the point they make me cry just thinking about being stuck in a relationship for the rest of my life feeling so rejected and confused. I have asked you to initiate with me since the fall of 2003 and we have fought countless times over this, yet you refuse to do it, try it, or even talk about it. *We tried discussing this a few weeks ago, (the discussion were you wanted specifics examples) We had to end the conversation early for some reason and I tried to keep bringing it up but you told me several times you didn't want to talk about, or you would talk about it later. I proposed the game where I tell you five things I might like and you would then tell me five things you would like…but that went no where and the few things I did tell you never did happen. In the conversation we had I gave you some specific examples of things that might make me feel less rejected, and one of them was if you would take initiative in buying the spermicide and astroglide...I tried to explain how this might send a message to me that you were interested and cared about the issue. After the conversation I waited a week to see if you might buy this product or mention to me "hey lets go buy that stuff." You never did and I had to bring it up and almost twist your arm to go and buy it. Even that day you kept trying to put of using it until later...these are all messages that you send that you are avoiding sex and that you don't want me and they crush me a day at a time. During that conversation I also told you a few other things, like touching me sexually, kissing me, wearing sexy underwear to initiate sex, and being more aggressive in the terms of just coming up to me and unbuttoning my pants and touching me or something along those lines. You never did any of those things...or even close to them. The closest thing to initiating was one night you came home from the bar and put my hand on you as a message you might be interested....(this was very nice but this 'positive message' is overshadowed by the dozens of negative messages.) I fantasize about a girlfriend who will initiate sex, be sexual in nature, be playful and relaxed in the bedroom, one who will reciprocate sexually, spend time pleasing me and let me spend time pleasing her. A girlfriend who will surprise me with sex and be genuinely happy and satisfied with sex. But from your own admission you have no sexual fantasies and have a 'whatever' and play it cool attitude that sends nothing but the message to me you could care less about sex. And even after I have begged you a pleaded with you to try some of these things…or even talk about them… you absolutely refuse. I don't know if it is your selfishness, inexperience, lack of love for me, lack of libido, anxiety? Or god knows what…I can't guess any more. Sunday was meaningless as an event by itself but among many others it was heartbreaking and crushing. I resent our love life, and it makes it almost impossible to reciprocate my love back to you like you deserve. I am to the point where I see girls at school and I know there is some one out there who will make love to me and be interested in me in a sexual manner, but I think to myself I don't want any other girls…I want you to make love to me and be interested in me in a sexual manner…but I know this will never happen. This all leaves me feeling hopeless and in a dark place."

I am also not sure that I agree that I have a 'high' libido. I am easily satisfied with reciprocating sex (both into it and decent passion,) 1.5 times a week. I say 1.5 because I don't like gettign into the one time a week routine...I like at least for the option for a second time to be there. I don't think wanting sex 1.5 times a week at 23 as a healthy athletic male living with his healthy athletic 23 year old girlfrind is considered a high libido.

Shysoul I think that is a great post and I agree. I have trouble coming to terms with what you refer to as 'aggressive in starting sexual acts' When a girl NEVER iniates it sends a message that she doesn't enjoy sex...and that she doesn't want it. It makes any guy feel like crap. We were reading an artical in Cosmo about the how if a girl doesn't ever initiate how bad it makes the guy feel. I clearly explained this is how I felt among many other conversations, but this time she could read it in print and is still did nothing. 'aggressive in starting sexual acts' might be an over statement considering that in teh three years we have been together she has initiated twice. TWICE! I agree with you on the rest of your post, and I am sure I am taking the wrong approach that is why I am posting here what am I supposed to do ask my guy friends? I need some where to talk. Imagine me at the bar..."yeah hey guys my girlfriend wont ever have sex with me what should I do?" Can you imagien that. I am left with no one to talk to.

A few months ago we were talking about our problems and it came up that she felt liek she really never knew what I wanted, and that impeded her ability to be a good lover. She explained since she was not very experienced when we met, and she never really paid much attention to what to do during sex she never had confidence during sex to be a good lover. This made sense to me and made me feel a little better. Ofcourse I had told her things in the past like, "It would be nice if you would initiate" but she said that was to vague she needed specifics and that she really wan't sure how to initiate sex. We talked for a while more and I told her things that I migth specificaly like, or specific acts of initation. I explained coming up to me when I least expected it and kising me or touching me in sexual way was a way to initiate, and I also explained the difference beween sexual and non-sexual touches and that touching me more sexually would be a good way to initiate. After I explained these things she seemd happy...she told me it was kind og embaressing for her not to 'know' these things already, but she was excited to have every thing out in the open and that she wouldn't be nervouse. . Every thing felt really good afer that in that in teh terms that things would get better. To this day (at least 8-9 weeks from that converstation) She has not done one of the things we talked about in the heart-heart converstation. THese are not strange or weird acts...the things I explained to her were, "Some time when I am not expecting it touch me sexually and kiss me." or maybe "come up behind me when I am in teh kitchen or somthing...and run your hands up in my shirt, and maybe down into my pants" Basic things like this...ways of initiating sex that make me feel like she might want me. In the three years we have dated she has neve done such an act to me NEVER. Two months ago when I clearly defined these things to her specificaly she seemd relevied because now she knew what I meant when I was saying "why don't you initiate." But in the end she still does nothing.

I think I feel rejected more then any thing. It isn't that I wanted sex the most out of the day...of course I just wanted to see her, and kiss her and spend time with her, I love her. For me it was just that when it came time for her to leave and I thought about how she had no interest the whole day and that I imagine that in any other healthy loving relationship at some point during the day some sort of sexual activity would have taken place between the two....I get to thinking it is messed up. To answer other questions: Yes we have a history of sex problems in terms of her having a low libido, and hang ups about sex but we have been doing alot better the last few months, but hte baggage of our problems is still with both of us.

Fair enough...so you saying in general most women wouldn't think about sex in this situation...the whole day? They havn't seen thier signifigant other in two weeks, and it wouldn't cross there mind laying togethor in bed? I find it hard to believe and understand if this is true...but I can only look at the situation through my persepctive.

As I posted earlier my girlfriend is out of town on business for three weeks. (We live togethor.) She came home for the afternoon today after I hadn't seen her in 7 days (last sunday for the afternoon) and I hadn't seen her for the 7 days prior to that. I wanted our day to be special so I made sure the apartment was cleaned...I had been tanning working out etc...I also was wearing her favorite jeans/shirt, clean shavin etc....I was excited to see her and I missed her so I wanted our afternoon togethor to be special. Any way she comes home and we kiss for a few minutes, and then she says she wants to get food, so we went and got dinner. We came home and laid in bed and watched tv etc...Becasue of our past problems I am not very quick to initiate I usaully wait fo some sort of 'sign' to start somthing sexually, well ofcourse no 'sign' and I started to kiss her her and touch her a little, but no reciprocation. Time came for her to go back and and I just felt baffled. Who does that? What kind of relationship am I in? Is it just me or does it make no sense to not see your boyfriend in two weeks and make no allussion, attempt, or any thing toward sex. I can't wrap my mind around it. It just makes no sense...I am speechless.

You can't have sex for 3-4 hours without a condom and say you are 100% yu didn't cum.

As for my father I havn't spoke to him in several years. He is a socio-path and a liar. He tries to say the rigth things, but gets caugth lieing over and over so it is pointless to converse with him. Last I heard he said to my mom, "I pray every day to the lord to forgive you for taking my children away from me." Come on...he is stupid and crazy. He blew countless amounts of money on prostitues and god knows what for years and lies and lies and just keeps lieing and blames my mom...her only mistake was staying with him, after he stopped sleeping with her, half way through there marrage. I can't forgive him, he is to crazy, stupid, and bent on lieing for me to forgive. You must understand we had a very normal existence and suddenly his lifestyle was made apparent to us, and it became a reality that he had been living this lifestlye for long time, which in turn made the constructs that I based my reality on crumble and I had to realize everything in my life up until then was all based on a lie...this is not easy to imagine unless you have had it happen.

I am not trying to make her pay...I just feel uneasy that is all. I wish I didn't, and that is why I made this thread. Ofcourse she shoul be able to go out with frinds and do what ever she wants, and ofcouse she should be able to do whatever and I should trust her. This is my issue, and I am not proud of it. In my defense, it isn't easy realizing the father you knew and loved was living a double life, and evrything you knew for twentie years was a lie...becasue of this I just have trouble trusting I guess. It isn't her fault and she has never done any thing for me to not trust her...but niether did my fathor so in my mind I realize that these thngs can happen and it makes it hard of me.

do I trust her? She has never given me a reason not to trust her, but I have trust issues, because my dad cheated onm mom...and he never gave her any reason not to trust him.

Why do I have a problem with my girlfriend leaving on a business trip for three weeks? Some of you might know we have relationship issues. I think I feel if she doesn't want to sleep with me, maybe when she goes out of town she will find some one she wants...who nows though, I probaly just have trust issues. I think since my dad cheated on my mom, and I didn't see it until she figured it out, I have problems trusting people. I don't know, I just don't undestant why she volunlteered to go on a three week trip..., who wants to go out of town for three weeks? I am having trouble dealing with this, and it is only six days into her trip...she called me today, and I talked to her for the first time in six days, since we have lived togethor or two years that seems like a long time...any way I talked to her for the first time in five or six days and withing five minutes she says, "I have to let you go the girls are here we are going to the bar for penny beers." WTF is that about....?

Here is a tip from a guys point of view. First off does it always seem that a guy you know does well with the ladies...or certian types of guys, and they always seem to get lucky? Well thier secret is confidence. If they are always getting lucky then they have confidence and that is 90% of hooking up...or atleast starting a relationship with girls/women. If you are desperate no matter how hard you try girls will notice. Second stop thinking about sex for a minute. Alot og women/girls are not thinking about sex when they meet a guy, they might think he is cute but they are thinking more along the lines of making a friend or meeting soem one they enjoy talking with. I am not an expert but my advice to guys trying to meet women is they must be confident and also try and put the sex thinking on the back burner. Make a friend then think about sex.

Talk about the panties her Mom laid out for her on the bed.

From a guys point of view, I wouldn't try to hard. I think he will care more about you intentions don't try any thing flashy or crazy just relax and know that he thinks you are hot and wants to see you...maybe draw it out a little so the anticipation kills him.

A 'big one' only means more lube and relaxation? Is there a size that would be to big or does 99% of men have a penis size small enough that lots of lube and relaxation can still make it possible? I am not that interested in anal, just wondering.

Thanks for all of the advice, Ray kay you are the best and I always read your posts several times, I know you must be sick of my posts...I just keep posting hear to keep my sanity. I love her, and I am trying. It isn't easy to leave some one over this especially when every thing else is good, she is my best friend, but not my lover. On top of all her hang ups and issues it isn't easy for us to be intimate with all of these fights and issues hanging over our head, kinda like we are both nervouse during sex and uptight. I really doubt that can ever go away. I hear every thing you are all saying, and I agree but don't know if I can bring my self to leave her. Don't think I havn't contiplated this going on for my entire life because I have...this idea gets me so depressed I have left school and work practically in tears just thinking about it before. *I never cry...atleast not until this issue...facing htis is the worst I love her so much and she is my best friend..but I am not satisfied and can't imagine living this way...but I also can't imagine leaving her. Any way sorry to keep posting the same crap, I am just learning more after reading books and researching this and wanted some feed back...posting here helps me keep my sanity, I also think that the fact that I need this board as an outlet for my thougths is bad...Shouldn't I be able to talk to her? If she was my soul mate shouldn't we be able to talk? I have told her every thing and EVERY THING ABOUT HOW I FEEL, but I feel we don't commincate, I don't get feedback. Please don't resent me for keep posting the same crap, just don't reply is you are sick of me -Thanks

Yes...The first 10 months sex was great...she didn't initiate much but I chalked that up to her inexperience and I figured it would get better. But yes overall sex was awsome. Her sister got pregnent and she kinda freaked out , out of fear of pregnancy then we started having issues which only snow balled into other issues and I think it is also hard for us to get rid fo the stigma all the fighting has created, so in the end it isn't easy to relax and enjoy sex. She also seems to have a low libido. The book we are currently reading explained that when some one who has a low libido starts a relationship they are excited and enorphins in thw brain help keep thier libido higher, but later on the excitment wears off and thier 'true' libido shows up.

As many of you knwow my girlfriend and I are struggling with intamcy issues and she has a low libido. We just finished 'Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars in the Bedroom' and we are starting 'A Sexed Starved marriage' by Michele Davis. Our first book was ok, it helped explain to both of us how Men and Women are in bed, but it was written at an overall low reading level and I felt it was a little dumbed down for me. Our next book is written really well, and besides a few aspects like it is geared toward older couples at times it is pretty good. In the Sexed Starved Marriage the author says that accroding to some studies and her research some people need to be physically stimulated before being mentally arroused. She explains the typical person is opposite and that most people become mentally arroused and then seek physical stimulation...but she also explains some people do not have sexual thoughts or get arroused from thinking sexual...these people need physical stimualtion first. Has any one heard of this or experieced it. We are only half way done with the book, but so far she is recomending that people like this just let thier partner stimulate them and then they should get arroused and this will result in a healthier sex life. I have a few problems with this and I am having a little trouble accepting this. One reason that our low sex life really kills me is the feeling I get like I am not attractive or wanted...Wont I still feel this way if I have to initiate and physically stimulate my girl firend 100% of the time...proir to her ever gettign turned on? I just imagine if she really wanted me and thought I was attractive that at soem point every blue moon she would initiate and just tell me 'I want you right now' But according to the book and how our relationshop is I have to iniate EVERY TIME. I am so sick of initiating...and even if this appraoch works I still forsee getting turned down some times maybe less then now... but still some times and at this point I can't take gettign turned down any more... it mentally breaks me. One factor that both books we have read have mentioned is how the sexless relationship is worst on Men because of the feeling of rejection...I can not agree with this more, I feel so rejected and it REALLY makes me depressed. At this point gettign turned down makes me almost cry, and since I get turned down so much I just avoid it. Is any one here the kind of person who can not get arroused with out physcial stimulation? How often do girls usually ininiate sex? Any other insights?

I can understand girls not liking bf looking at porn...but I really don't like this snooping detective stuff trying to 'bust' them. If this was ever an issue I would feel like my gf was my mom and have to end the relationship.

Good luck...search 'low libido' or posts I have made on this forum, you will find lots of guys in your same situation. It isn't an easy situation, because the more you bug her about it, or talk to her it might put 'pressure' on her and then she will feel even more unsexual. overall it can be a very frustrating situation for you. I would recomend searching this board for answers and be carefull before you 'pressure' her or get mad at her for the way she is acting.

I just went back and read more this thread....you made him agree to stop masterbating! For three weeks...and you don't live togethor! How can you do that? Thats liek asking a man to go with out pooping for a week...the male body needs to relive itself sometimes, and it is completely normal and natural. You also mentioned that during sex he doesn't last long....I wouldn't either if I hand't 'gotten off' in teh past few days. You need to leave him alone, and let him be himself. I am not a big fan of porn, and if some one is obsessing over it is is unhealthy...but porn does not neccessarilly equal deviant behavior.