kitten

I just realized another snag in this idea. I have absolutely no idea what her address is. That may sound dumb, but I never really had any reason to know it. I knew how to drive there, and that's all the information I ever needed. The only way I could find out her address to mail her anything would be to drive there, walk up the three flights of stairs, and check out which apartment number is hers. Unfortunately that would make me look like a complete psychopath stalker. And even if I didn't get caught, the temptation to actually *be* a stalker (e.g., by peering in the window to see what I can see) would be tremendous. Note that I'm not *looking* for that opportunity, but if I was standing right there to find her address, well, you know. I was thinking I could go at some obscene hour of the night when I wouldn't get caught, but she keeps odd hours. And if I was hanging around at 5 in the morning, that would look bad, to put it mildly... the bottom line is I can't think of any legitimate reason to go over there. I suppose I could be *real* tricksy and send a friend over there and act like "Oops, wrong apartment" if caught. But really, all I want to do is send her a gift, not turn this ito some kind of James Bond movie. As a side, her Away message currently reads "dude you are a sexy b*tch", which I doubt is meant for me, which worries me even further. That's not the type of Away she'd normally have anyway, making me fret even more. Yay overanalysis.

So.. I haven't talked to her since Tuesday (it is now Sunday). This is out of my choosing, but it was made *slightly* easier because she hasn't been online much since then. As a little experiment, however, I set up what's known as a "link trap". It's something I insert in my AIM away message that looks like a link and directs the visitor to any site I choose, but I have a means of accessing who clicked on it and when. So, she got online today, and about ten minutes later, I put up my away message. Within one minute she'd clicked on it. Yes, yes, I know, this cloak-and-dagger stuff is immature and facile. Sue me. My question is.. is there any meaning to this at all? I mean, I'm kind of hoping it means she's still thinking about me and wants to see what I'm up to, given her almost immediate checking of my Away message... I'm also liking Mr Six's idea of dropping a short note and a small gift to her. Problem is that her birthday is near the end of August, and I want to make it clear that the gift and note are *not* related to that, but are instead my sincere efforts. Does that make sense?

The fact that you recognize what you did wrong, and are trying to correct these erroes, shows that you deserve a second chance. If you're given that second chance, though, you had better give 100% to making sure you've got a solid grip on what went wrong last time, and not letting it happen again.

Go on your date. If your ex decides to get in touch with you now that his class is done, he will -- and you won't have to make a choice or "dump" the other guy. One date with someone doesn't obligate you to them or anything. Think about it -- you go on your date, and you have a nice time at the very least. If your ex doesn't call, you have a new prospect. If he does call, you can simply tell the other guy you really had a good time, but you're getting back together with your ex. After only one or two dates, he's not going to take it that hard. However, do not cut the new guy off unless you're *really* sure there's something going on with your ex.

If you were not treating her right, and you realize this, and she seems to want you back -- why not tell her? I say write a letter (say what you need to say, but keep it brief -- she doesn't want to read a novel here), explain to her that you've had some time to think and reconsider the time you shared with her, and you've come to such-and-such realisations about what you did wrong. *Briefly* cover a few times that you should have shown more affection but didn't (use specific examples). Then, also briefly, cover a time or two that she did something for you and how great she made you feel for it. Close with an offer to sit down and talk things over with her. When you talk, don't get into a big who-did-what-to-whom fight, don't make accusations. Just make sure she knows how much thought you've put into your own flaws and how you're trying to correct them, and that you'd like a second chance to do things right this time and treat her the way she deserves.

I don't think there's really any clever, subtle way to find out what her deal is with her boyfriend. And if I were you, I would not push the issue. The fact that she's willing to go to dinner with you is fantastic, and you have the knowledge that she isn't happy with her current relationship. The fact that she told you this is also encouraging. Play it cool, like everyone else said. Keep things light, but don't be so aloof that she thinks you're not interested. You want to show her that you're the same cool, interesting guy she met in the first place. I guess that's pretty obvious advice, but it needed to be said anyway. Think of this as your first date with her, as though you just met her. You didn't profess your undying devotion to her then, and you shouldn't now -- but you did, obviously, find a way of making it known that you're interested. I wouldn't even bring up the wedding thing yet. I mean, you can talk about the friend's wedding and so forth, but this isn't the time to ask her to be your date. See how dinner goes, see what her reaction is, wait a few days, maybe give her a call to see what's new, judge her general attitude towards you. Somehow, I think you'll just *know* when the timing is right, so don't push it until The Moment dictates. Best of luck to you -- things sound like they're looking up.

Let me chip in here. I say you definitely take her out. Let me tell you why this sounds like a good idea to me. First and most obvious: You said you would. Cancelling, as you said, makes you seem like a jerk. If you want this girl back, being a jerk isn't going to help. Second, you haven't seen each other in a month. This is your chance to have a light, pleasant evening together. This is your chance to show her some of the changes you've made to be a better person (*show*, do not *tell*). Here's what I say: You pick somewhere nice, offer to pick her up (she may just want to meet you there, so ask if she'd like to be picked up!) Keep consversation light -- don't be vapid, but do *not* get dragged into a discussion, or even a mention, of the relationship.(1) That will most likely degenerate into a dismal evening of apologies, accusations, fights, resentment. Your goal is to keep things as no-pressure and amicable as possible. When you pick her up, give her a rose. (Or give it to her at the restaurant when she meets you, if that's the way it goes.) Be friendly, be happy, be sincere, and do not show for one second that you're miserable without her. Try not to make the evening last *too* long. You'll know when it's time to quit. The idea is to make her see that you're a good guy, and as they say in stand-up comedy, "Leave 'em wanting more". At the end, simply make sure she knows you had a wonderful time and you really enjoyed seeing her again. As I said, don't get into the relationship and don't use this time to sort out problems the two of you had. Then, congratulations -- you've shown her a good time and what a great guy you are, and she'll appreciate that, and I bet it will make her think twice about why she broke up with you. My further advice is to avoid contacting her for the next few days and see if she calls you. When the two of you do talk again, maybe -- if the timing feels right -- you could mention that you had a great time with her and see if she'd like to do something else (movie, dinner, whatever) in the near future. This was way longer than I intended it to be, but with reason: I, too, have not seen my ex in about a month, and I, too, planned to take her out for a birthday (in this case, my own), but she ignored my invitation. If you have the chance to do what I couldn't, DO IT.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I already wrote her a letter, about two days after it all happened; a three-page missive about how I know I was a complete idiot for barging in like that, and what I was thinking when I did (wanted her to know where I was coming from). I also included some stuff about how I really do appreciate her, and acknowledgements about what an idiot I was for not expressing that to her. I finally wrapped it up with, essentially, "Let's talk this out and see where it takes us." Her reply was that although the letter was clearly heartfelt, my appreciation for her was basically too little, too late. Not her exact words, but that was the definite meaning. That, and she didn't want to talk things out right then (understandable), and maybe in a month or two she'd be willing to help me deal with my issues (as a "friend", I assume -- zero indication that this breakup was temporary or anything). Anyway, the reason I'm telling you all this is because I'm kind of at my wit's end. Writing her a letter would seem redundant, although admittedly there is more I could say to her, having had quite a long time to think about things. Problem is I don't know if it would come off as needy and desperate, or what, or if she'd even care. I really want the opportunity to *show* her that I understand what went wrong, and to *show* her that I'm not the indifferent cold guy she thought I was. ANyone can say it and write it in a letter, but I could really show her -- if she'd let me. After the initial letter, I stopped talking to her as she requested. A few days later she was IM'ing me for small talk. And that's just the way it's been ever since -- she'll IM me, not every day but almost, and I'll respond, and nothing really goes anywhere. I'm getting long-winded so let me wrap this post up: One possible thing to do is, I don't know, avoid talking to her at all for a week or so, then drop her a letter and a little gift, and then step back to see what happens. I realize that you people don't have all the details, but maybe you know enough at this point to answer this question: What on earth would my letter say? Also: What would be an appropriate gift to say "I made mistakes"? Something highly personalized, or something generic like a rose, or.. what?

Yeah. Others have also suggested that I should just lay off for a while. Trouble is, I really don't know what "lay off" means. Should I stop responding to her IMs altogether? Also, why would she keep things relatively friendly by IM'ing me all the time to chitchat and make small talk, but *completely* ignore me when I invite her somewhere? Again, a simple "I don't want to see you" or "No thanks" would have sufficed -- I guess I just don't understand the point of acting like you didn't even hear the question.

Sheesh. All I wanted to know is how people handle the situation when they want their ex back, but he/she is with someone else. Then the discussion degenerates into who carries more guns and who has more martial art prowess. That isn't quite what I meant by "handle". Try to assume for the moment that the idea is to get back together eventually, not make the ex recoil in horror because you shot / beat the snot out of / stalked / hanged their current flame. I dno't know -- it seems like NC is somewhat counterproductive here. If she's with a new guy, and you're not contacting her at all, then she has absolutely no reason to miss you or think of you. (Yes, I realise that NC is for your benefit and healing time as well, but isn't it also a sort of ploy to make the ex miss you?)

Shameless self-promotion since nobody has responded... She's IM'd me a couple of links today and yesterday as her way of starting some kind of small-talk. The usual pointlessness, I guess. I haven't responded so far. I would really like some insight into this. Anyone?

nicolas, assuming that you have some interest in getting back together with this girl, do *not* bring up that incident. First, if there's any chance you're wrong, you're going to look like a complete moron. And if you're right, she should probably know about it, but she shouldn't hear it from *you*, because nobody likes the bearer of bad news and it would just make it look like you're trying to break them up (which you would be, but in her eyes, that would make you look like an ass). One *possible* way to do it would be that if you go over there to get your phone or whatever, and he's there, just say something friendly and innocent like "Hey, thought I saw you at that bar the other night," and leave it at that. If it was him, he'll get nervous all on his own, knowing that you saw what he was up to, and just might dig his own grave. If it wasn't him, you can just brush it off with "Ah, well, he looked just like you," and nothing more need be said.

I can't really see why they'd care. So you're telling a bunch of random strangers about your problems and trying to get help. Oh heaven help us, you're a monster. Even if the stories you tell are wildly inaccurate in your ex's eyes, what would they care? You're trying to deal with your own feelings, and it's not like anyone here knows who the ex is and is going to find her and tell her what a horrible person she is, or whatever. It's not as though you're telling people she might actually run into.

Well..so like I said, I asked her a few days ago if she'd be willing to let me take her somewhere for my birthday, and got the "We'll see, I have finals that week, etc". I didn't hear anything else from her on that topic and I didn't bring it up again until today (my birthday), so I IM'd her and said "I know you're busy, but I want you to know my invitation still stands. If you're interested, it can be whenever you want, maybe after finals." She barely even acknowledged that she'd heard me, and immediately started talking about something totally unrelated. I understand that she has no obligation to go anywhere or do anything with me, but.. I feel I deserve an answer one way or the other. If she's not interested, she could have said no. Or if she is, she could have said yes, or I'm too busy but later this week, or *anything*. Instead, she basically ignored the invitation. So my question now is, what should I do? I kind of feel like I should tell her I'm a bit upset about this -- not that she didn't go anywhere, but that she left me totally hanging. On the other hand, confrontation is bad, especially with her, and I certainly don't want things to degenerate into accusations and other BS. Our conversations have so far been light and I want to keep it that way. But goddammit, it isn't fair to ignore someone that way -- ex or not. My other option is to go back to No Contact, although I'm not really sure what that would get me. It seems sort of petty, like giving someone the silent treatment because you're mad at them, instead of just telling them what's on your mind. I know I screwed up with this girl, but I also know exactly what I did wrong, and if she gave me the chance to prove it, I know things could work. I don't want to have to play this tap-dancing game of "should i stay or should i go". If she's not ready to see me in person yet, she should just say so, not ignore me. I am totally confused and have no idea what to do about this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have another topic up in this forum, but this is kind of a new issue, so I figured I'd make it a new topic. I dont' know whether my ex was seeing someone else when we broke up, or if she's seeing him now, and there's evidence both ways, so I can't make any kind of conclusion. But my question is -- in general, if your ex is seeing someone else, how do you handle that? Is it worth trying to get her back at that point? How do you try not to think about them together? In such a situation, wouldn't no-contact only make you even less of an issue, while giving them more time to bond? What are your thoughts?

You know, I have another issue. Specifically, the guy I assumed she was cheating on me with -- she met him at work, and as she needed a roommate, he moved in. That moving-in bit is a rather vital piece of information that I didn't have when I caused my little scene, because I assumed he was over there for more nefarious purposes. I am willing to admit that I was probably wrong about the whole situation then, but it keeps preying on my mind. Every time she's online and goes idle, I have these visions that she got dragged away from the computer by him to do god-knows-what. I imagine them watching TV together, eating together, etc, and thinking that even if I was wrong about it then, what if it's happening now? It's driving me insane.

I don't know. I feel like this should be a "show, don't tell" situation. I'd be more than willing to talk about it with her if she brought it up, but even then I wouldn't want to give a blow-by-blow account of every time I screwed up with my indifference. That's why I figured that showing her a nice time, and that I can be a more open guy, would be better than trying to talk about it (at least at first), because that would just make me seem like a dwelling-on-the-past, oh-look-how-much-i-suck idiot. I just can't think of a good way to broach the subject in any event. "Hey, I've had a lot of time to think about things and I realize you were right the whole time and I was a blind fool." *I* have no problem with saying that, especially since it's true, but.. I don't know. I don't want conversations with her to degenerate into a "who did what to whom" game of accusations, apologies, etc. I just want a way to be able to acknowledge that I was wrong and that I am changing because of this, and for her to really understand that. I want her to see, without me having to spell it out for her, that other than my indifference, we were superb together, and if I can change that, we could be again. A new start, a second chance to do things right this time. The first step, of course, is *meeting* her. IM conversations about trite topics is all we've had so far, and I'm certainly not going to do this kind of thing online. I figured that showing her a nice time would be the right start, and maybe after two or three more accounts of spending time together, I could.. what? Ask for another chance? Wouldn't that come off as needy? Clearly, I barely know what I'm talking about. All these little scenarios in my mind of when to discuss this, how to bring up that, what possible reactions would be. And I still haven't heard anything back from her about my little invitation. I'm beginning to think she's just going to blow it off entirely. If she isn't interested, she could say so. Or if she's just going to be too busy, she could say that. I just hate being left hanging, having no idea what she wants.

The other day I asked her if she'd let me take her out for my birthday, and she gave me a "we'll see, I have two finals and two projects due that week", and hasn't mentioned it since (this was maybe two days ago, and my birthday is in three). Should I bring it up again? I'm thinking no, I don't want to pester her, but then, I don't want her to forget that the invitation exists. I don't care if it's actually my birthday or not. She's busy, I understand that -- it can be any time, really. I just want to see her, and to show her that I'm a lot more open than I was. Someone said handing her a card at the end of the evening (if we ever even get together) is a bad idea, like doing a good job at the office and then demanding recognition from your boss for it. The theory is, I suppose, that if I maintain a light-hearted attitude, she'll notice this on her own. I guess my deal is, I want her to know exactly what I want to happen -- a second chance, to do things right this time. But maybe I should just let it happen and hope she'll realize that's what I want? I have no idea.

Actually, I'll be turning 25 as well. But since it's so close, it makes more sense to say I've been around for 25 years than 24, so at this point I just say I'm 25 for simplicity's sake.

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking that I really don't want to bring up or talk about our relationship, or how I feel for her -- I think that would just put this damp mood on the entire evening, when the idea is to show her that I'm a fun guy to be around, not a moody guy that hates life. That's why I thought the card would be a good idea -- it would let her know what I thought and felt, but she could read it when she gets home, instead of having to sour the evening by discussing it. I don't know exactly what the card will say. Something brief, but sincere. I just want her to know that I understand these things and I'd like to show her, and get a second chance to do things right this time.

I'm a 25 year old guy, and I'd been dating a woman since the beginning of this year. Things were fantastic as far as I was concerned, and I knew she felt the same about me. She broke up with me on July 5 for two reasons. Evidently, she felt I was always emotionally distant. It's a fair criticism, though I'd like to emphasise that I certainly wasn't that way on purpose, and didn't even realize it until recently, having had two weeks or so to really consider all the times she'd gone out of her way to be nice to me or get me excited about something and although I always appreciated her, I realize now that I never really expressed that appreciation. I can understand how several months of trying to draw someone out and get them to open up without much success would be trying. I'll spare you all the litany of "Times I Should Have Said Something Nice But Didn't". Suffice to say there were many of these times. The second reason is because I got it into my head that she was seeing someone else, and based on the information I had, it *was* a logical conclusion. Only my information turned out to be *very* incomplete and I see now that I was wrong. Unfortunately, having been cheated on in the past and not stood up for myself, I decided this time I would, so I barged into her apartment, made a snotty remark to her (waking her up in doing so) and left. This probably scared the living snot out of her, and understandably so. I apologized profusely and made her see where I was coming from with that outburst, so I think she understands, but nevertheless, felt that my Mr Strong And Silent routine combined with that incident made me a twit not worth dealing with. She asked me to leave her alone for a few weeks. So I did. In the past few days she's been IM'ing me (we're just that type -- we hardly ever used the phone when we dated), and we haven't talked about anything very significant, just sort of small talk and trading links and stuff, but at least she's talking to me now. Please note that I do not initiate these conversations, as I'm trying to stay out of her face as she asked, but I'm always willing to talk to her. Anyway, I'm rambling, but that's the backstory. The point here is that I want her back, and I want a chance to do it right this time. I can't erase what I did, and I can't make the past five months go away, but I've had a lot of time to think and assess myself and I understand all the things she had been trying to show me -- things I never understood when we were together. My general idea is to use my upcoming birthday (Jul 27) as a sort of "icebreaker" excuse to take her out somewhere nice for dinner and keep the conversation *very* light-hearted and pressure-free, partially because I'd like to spend the evening with her and partially to show her that I'm capable of being something other than a moody punkass. A small gift that says "I made mistakes and I'm sorry" wouldn't hurt either -- thinking about folding origami roses for that. And then, at the end of the evening, giving her a little card that briefly (brevity is good, isn't it?) apologizes, and that expresses my wish to have more times like this with her, sort of a fresh start. What do you think? Is this worth a try? Anyone have better ideas? How do I know if she's even still interested (or potentially interested)? My thinking is, obviously she thought I was worthwhile before, except for my lack of appreciation for her and for life, so maybe if I can change that, she'd be willing to try again. I don't know. Thoughts?