Whats the point of Pornography!?

[Suesser Tod]

You think? I would think it would take less time and effort to just conjure up a picture in your head, then it would to get up, get a magazine or surf the Internet and log in to an account, lock the door, walk back to your couch/bed, etc...

 

Well, for me it was harder back in my early teens. Masturbating while picturing a woman on my mind, and obviously, that woman was someone I knew, usually a girl from the school.

 

Sometimes that made me feel guilty and in a few ocasions it was even hard to talk to them.

 

With porn, if I'm working/playing/wasting time in front of the computer, and I feel like it, I just fire up another browser window, when I'm done I just close the browser and its done.

[EvaGina]

I still dont see how ANY argument here stems beyond "If you like it, watch it, if you dont, then dont".

 

And that, in reality, is all it really comes down to. NO ONE can say "but the girls dont like it"... becuase they are not there, are they? and it cant be that bad if they are doing it...

 

No one gets this passionate about a girl working in IT who actually wants to be an artist

[MyNinja]

Let me end this.....the existence of everything around us has some meaning of some sort, whether it's very small or overwhelming. Pornography, in my opinion, is strictly meant for the enjoyment of sex...be it dirty or a night alone with a significant other. Being human, we are naturally sexual beings and want to take it to the limits.

 

Me personally, I can't stand porn....why you ask? I just don't need it.

[Orlander]

porn is completely degrading and exploitative to women

I would go further by saying this is true of men as well.

 

We all have our opinions regarding this subject. I suggest everyone do their own research into pyschological and physical effects of pornography and see just how the porn industry influences our country and the people who work in it.

 

Orlander

[Cassie]

I haven't yet had an opportunity to thoroughly browse through this entire debate.

 

However from a philosophical standpoint, just because something is commonplace in society or has been around since the dawn of time doesn't necessarily make it morally correct.

 

All right, just finished reading through everything - quite a fascinating but heated topic. For those who have stated that it's impossible to argue morality, bare in mind that quite a few ancient pagan philosophers would disagree. For example, the whole premise of the Socratic method is based on seeking out the good life through knowledge (recognizing universal morality - "to know the good is to do the good, as the unexamined life is not worth living").

 

This thread took many twists and turns - I was actually hoping someone could answer the OP question by offering a clear, concise definition of what the essense of pornography is in society. Instead it seems everyone gave opinions, offered attributes, or cited examples of different areas in the industry.

[Scout]

Good post, Cassie...although I don't believe your last statement is entirely true. The OP asked what the point of porn was, and some people replied it was an easier sexual release, and some even implied it was necessary for men to keep them from acting on "testosterone-fueled" impulses. That's where I chimed in to disagree. Somehow, I did get focused on the industry aspect of it - probably in response to the statements that porn is "harmless" and a well-regulated industry.

 

It is definitely a heated topic for many. I've been coming to eNotalone for over three years now, and have certainly noticed that some people really get upset if you question porn. The result is it can be a very difficult subject to discuss/debate.

[EvaGina]

The point of pornography is to aid masterbation.

 

As with everything, if you dont like it, dont utilise it.

I disagree with organised religion... passionately... you dont see me trying to tell other people why its wrong.

[Cassie]

Scout, I'm glad the discussion swayed off - it certainly added more depth. Thank you for providing links, etc.

 

A few things piqued my curiosity about this thread. For one, those who were more or less 'for' pornography felt it was a harmless and fun way to release sexual energy. Being that we are sensual creatures by nature, this on the surface seemed like a perfectly acceptable and enlightening explanation.

 

However, a few of those generally 'for' pornography also made some remarks when asked how they would feel seeing their own daughters, wives or sisters servicing society through pornography. A few expressed some discomfort, and one gentleman even said that he might 'be disappointed', although he would respect the decision.

 

Thus I feel confused.

 

If porn is a fun positive outlet to release personal sexual tension and energy, aren't pornstars and pornstresses actually doing a wonderful and, ultimately, constructive and beneficial service for society? Shouldn't you then actually feel proud to have your daughter, sister or wife be able to aid so many people to a quick wank in such a natural way?

 

In general, why aren't pornstars and pornstresses more revered for the beneficial and positive role they do provide to society?

 

Any thoughts?

[Leonhart]

I was always given to understand that the point of pornography is to make as much money for its producers as possible.

[EvaGina]

I think you have to look at it in context..

 

We need garbage men... no one is going to be over the moon when their kid decided to go work on the rubbish trucks...

 

We need insurance brokers... I would be FAR happier with my child being a porn star than a financial planner!!!

 

look at porn as a JOB.... you are still looking at it from one point of veiw...

[Scout]

I think you have to look at it in context..

 

We need garbage men... no one is going to be over the moon when their kid decided to go work on the rubbish trucks...

 

We need insurance brokers... I would be FAR happier with my child being a porn star than a financial planner!!!

 

look at porn as a JOB.... you are still looking at it from one point of veiw...

 

This is an interesting view of the subject. I am not sure all of us would agree porn is needed, though. I know I don't, as will probably be no surprise for you to hear.

[EvaGina]

This is an interesting view of the subject. I am not sure all of us would agree porn is needed, though. I know I don't, as will probably be no surprise for you to hear.

 

true

but then only a TINY amount of things we have are needed...

this board isnt needed, the internet isnt needed, restuarants and bars arent needed...

so thats just kinda puling at straws...

[Scout]

true

but then only a TINY amount of things we have are needed...

this board isnt needed, the internet isnt needed, restuarants and bars arent needed...

so thats just kinda puling at straws...

 

Well, I was just "pulling" from your other post that indicated porn was a needed profession since you compared it with other professions you said were needed. I thought we were going somewhere with that, but guess not.

[EvaGina]

Well, I was just "pulling" from your other post that indicated porn was a needed profession since you compared it with other professions you said were needed. I thought we were going somewhere with that, but guess not.

 

 

sorry I didnt mean porn is a necessity... but its just as valid as the sexy knickers companies or 3m and their brightly coloured post it notes...

 

I wasnt meaning the medical system or anything

[Cassie]

Hi Gina - I never presumed porn wasn't a job; in fact, I've always viewed it as a job (girl / guy does get paid for their services, right?)

 

One of the main differences between porn and other professions is the sensationalism surrounding it. Words such as dirty, raunchy, smut, XXX, bad, naughty, explicit, etc. are not uncommonly linked with porn to promote its services. Why does the industry choose to utilize such powerfully negative terminology?

 

Scout, it also really struck a chord with me what you said about how Jenna Jameson (who is so highly successful in the industry and one of America's most beloved pornstresses) won't watch her own sex scenes. Do you recall why she's unable to?

 

I also find it interesting how Jenna wants to sway her daughter away from the porn industry. I need to nip around her memoir - perhaps it holds some key to uncovering some of my deeper questions. At least, it may be a good starting point given her status and success in the industry.

 

I suppose it saddens me because everyone inherently deserves the right to reap satisfaction and pride from their accomplishments and work.

 

Oy, I wish there was a wise oracle I could consult to seek further answers on this issue.

 

I did dig up an article pertaining to sexual ethics in Buddhism which has come the closest thus far in helping me pinpoint and understand why I've personally always found a lot of pornography disturbing.

 

Please excuse the cut and paste below (A link to the full article is provided at the end for those interested in reading its entire length)

[Cassie]

***

 

As with other aspects of Buddhist ethics the The Five Precepts form the basis for making moral decisions. In this instance it is the third precept, ‘I undertake not to engage in sexual misconduct’, and its positive aspect, 'With stillness, simplicity and contentment, I purify my body' , are the guides (but not commandments), for understanding right and wrong behaviour with regard to sex for the Buddhist.

 

Sexual misconduct is clearly going be largely decided by the opinions of individuals. For example, some might simply say that sex outside marriage is wrong. Others might follow what is legally set out by society and say that rape, incest and paedophilia are example of sexual misconduct. Although there is no specific criteria set out in Buddhism as to what is or is not 'sexual misconduct' by exploring the third precept and its positive aspects we can begin to build a picture of what it might be:

• 'stillness'- Sexual relationships need to be thought about. Who are you going to have sex with? Why are you having sex with them? Is it right to have sex with them? These are examples of questions which clearly demonstrate a thoughtful approach to sexual relationships.

• 'simplicity' - Sexual relationships should not be complicated. A person having an affair will need to lie about that fact that they are married or lie to their partner where they have been and who they have been with. Illegal sexual practices are hidden from the necessary authorities. If one cannot be honest about one's sexual partners then complications will almost certainly arise.

• 'contentment' - Having sex with someone should not result in a guilty conscience. Sex should be an enjoyable experience for all concerned. One should consider whether one's partner wants to have sex. This also links in with the notion of stillness' considered earlier.

Despite the fact that Buddhists seek to overcome their desires (tanha) in the pursuit of nirvana (freedom from desire), it cannot be said that they are ashamed of the fact that they have sexual desires. In fact, accepting this is a part of dealing with such desires and responding to them appropriately.

 

It could be argued that due to their emphasis on the sinful nature Christianity has had a much less favourable attitude to the body and the issue of sex (for more on this see link removed).

 

This means that Buddhists aim to cultivate the right attitude towards their sexual desires so that they respond appropriately to them (skilful actions), whilst avoiding situations which would lead to distress, pain, worry etc. (unskillful actions).

 

 

In light of this Buddhism clearly shows that the issue of sex cannot be treated lightly. So often people use sex as a means of simply satisfying their own desires or making themselves feel good. In fact, one could say that sexual desire can be either healthy or neurotic:

 

Healthy sexual craving is when sex is seen as a natural aspect of life. The person who has a healthy attitude to sex is not embarrassed or afraid of their sexual desires, or even their sexuality. They also recognise that sex is simply one aspect of life and not the centre of it. A couple who have a healthy sexual relationship will think more about pleasing their partner than themselves.

 

Neurotic sexual craving is revealed when people become obsessed with sex and use it to make themselves feel better than they do (or feel wanted).

 

This means that people are being treated as sexual objects rather than as persons. (This is often a criticism made about pornography). It also means that people are being treated disrespectfully. Neurotic sexual craving is an example of emotional suffering. However, by trying to deal with this through increased sexual activity the personal suffering will only increase. Buddhists believe such a person needs to correct their understanding of themselves first. The cure for low self-esteem is beginning to accept who you are rather than trying to solve the problem

through sex.

 

***

 

The entire article can be found here (link removed)

 

So pornography can be fun, fulfilling and extremely self-gratifying. But, ultimately, at what cost?

 

Any thoughts?

[Leonhart]

 

Any thoughts?

 

Yes.

 

Gnostics, Orthodox Judaism and Muslims are all pretty much against pornography as well. In fact, even masturbation is a sin, according to their religions. Catholics see the big 'M' as the same.

 

Most religions do not condone pornography, or even masturbation.

 

I don't remember what Hinduism teaches about it.

 

Incidentally, it is a Catholic (not necessarily 'christian') view that sex is evil and sinful. Otherwise, christianity and judaism both teach pretty much the same thing on sex, homosexuality, pornography, etc. There are some differences, but many similarities due to them sharing most of the same holy book.

[Cassie]

Hi Wilhelm - I'm not sure if Buddhism is technically classified as a religion or merely a philosophy of life. I'm not too keen on organized religion in general because I view it as a man-made institution, and thus prone to a lot of imperfection. (dodges flames)

 

Neither do I consider myself Buddhist. I just found that article particularly enlightening on the level of morality.

 

Some have said morality can't be argued or determined. Many medieval philosophers (paganists, bare in mind) would passionately disagree with that point and say that there is, in fact, universal right and wrong which transcends society, culture and religion.

 

I'm surely not against all porn. Even if I was, everyone still has a right to their opinion.

 

However the question still haunts me - if pornography is causing distress to someone involved on some level, is it still morally right to satisfy ourselves to another's discomfort or suffering?

 

And why is there so much negative connotation surrounding pornography in general - ie, in the ways it's advertised and promoted?

 

I'm very interested in hearing everyone's opinion. As a young woman struggling to understand my own sensuality and its role in contemporary society, I do find this topic particularly intriguing.

[EvaGina]

However the question still haunts me - if pornography is causing distress to someone involved on some level, is it still morally right to satisfy ourselves to another's discomfort or suffering?

 

That can be held to everything tho, from religion to veganism...

no matter WHAT you do, someone will find it morally opposing.

 

my example from before, with religion for example (I wont get into the reasons why, this isnt the thread for that ) I in NO way expect ANYONE to alter their beleifs because I find the idea morally and ethically abhorrent.

 

although there are ALWAYS exceptions, the majority of people with beleif systems, be it vegetarianism or religion or anything inbetween, dont force their will onto others.

 

as long as things are done with minimal harm (-this ranges from free-range eggs to std checks for porn stars-) then there isnt really an issue to speak of.

[melrich]

perhaps it holds some key to uncovering some of my deeper questions.

 

Without making any commentary on the "porn" debate, I think some of your deeper personal questions may be answered here,

 

Words such as dirty, raunchy, smut, XXX, bad, naughty, explicit, etc. are not uncommonly linked with porn to promote its services. Why does the industry choose to utilize such powerfully negative terminology?

 

In terms of sexual activity, many people would not regard these words as negative. The fact that you view them as negative is likely an indication of your value system and the conflict you have around the pornography industry. It's horses for courses I guess.

[EvaGina]

In terms of sexual activity, many people would not regard these words as negative. The fact that you view them as negative is likely an indication of your value system and the conflict you have around the pornography industry. It's horses for courses I guess.

 

BRILLIANT post!

we all have differing views of what we find corrupted.

[Scout]

In terms of sexual activity, many people would not regard these words as negative. The fact that you view them as negative is likely an indication of your value system and the conflict you have around the pornography industry. It's horses for courses I guess.

 

Hmmm...I kind of understand what you're getting at, because it's sort of the same as talking dirty in bed. Using some words like that can really spice things up. However, and here is the difference between porn and the general term "sexual activity" - just because a couple likes to talk dirty in bed sometimes doesn't mean that this is the only way they ever have sex.

 

And so I see Cassie's point in that accross the board, almost all porn is advertised/promoted using those kinds of words. Seriously, when is the last time you've seen some kind of porn advertised as, "A couple share hours of having loving sex with each other ..." (I'm just pulling some words out of the hat.)

 

Instead, the porn industry itself, by and large, is advertising their "wares" as something forbidden, wrong, and smutty through words that indicate just that. Which contrasts with the idea, often promulgated by the porn industry, that porn is healthy and "sexually empowering." If that's the case - why advertise it in an opposite way?

 

thereforeeee, I don't think Cassie's taking notice of that can simply be chalked up as a value system issue regarding sexual activity.

[Scout]

BRILLIANT post!

we all have differing views of what we find corrupted.

 

Right, but the porn industry itself implies most of their "products" as corrupted through the words/advertisements they use to promote them. Cassie's point was really questioning that, not questioning what is and what isn't corrupted.

[melrich]

is advertising their "wares" as something forbidden, wrong, and smutty through words that indicate just that.

 

No again that is your spin. Porn is about sex. There are many people, who in the context of the subject of sex, think that these words reflect a positive, good thing. Not a negative thing.

 

If someone were to call another's house dirty they would be offended. If someone were to offer another dirty sex, many would see that as a positive.

 

Porn uses these words in the context of sex, not their everyday context. And in the context of sex, I'll say again, many people think words like dirty, raunchy, xxx, explicit ....are good words.

 

So if you see these words in the context of sex and you think "Oh that's subversive" then it probably indicates some of the values you attach to sex. And something like this may be good for you but boring for others,

 

"A couple share hours of having loving sex with each other ..."

 

For example, if my partner and I ever watch porn, we never pick the channel showing "The Lover's Guide to Beautiful Sex" we'll generally go for something a bit more spicey like "Good girls get Down and Dirty". (I made those titles up BTW)

 

Of course looking at things differently is no bad thing at all but just remember not everyone holds the same values and in the matter of the way porn describes porn, there is no right or wrong....they talk to their target market.

[EvaGina]

Right, but the porn industry itself implies most of their "products" as corrupted through the words/advertisements they use to promote them. Cassie's point was really questioning that, not questioning what is and what isn't corrupted.

 

but that does back to what Melrich said.

I dont find teh wording corrupted, but someone else might.

I think the words are appropriate, especially in context... as Melrich said, if I were to watch porn with Macca, it would be DIRTY... because I would feel like dirty sex.

 

If I wanted nice sex, it would be candles and stuff...