No More Hope

[lady00]

Well, in many ways, it was that other ex who played with and messed me up. She abused me EVERY single day. Verbally and physically.

 

Well that right there really struck me. I don't recall your older posts well...were you able to work through the negative feelings that arose from this abuse? I can't even imagine how traumatic that must have been...and it probably explains somewhat the root cause of your behavior toward your most recent ex. I mean, it just doesn't seem to me that abuse is something people get over very easily...it takes a long time, I'd imagine. Are you over it? Do you think maybe you've focused too much on what you did wrong toward your ex and not enough on healing from the abuse in your last relationship? I think all too often people do not take abuse against men seriously...they think only women can be abused. But surely men can be abused and can suffer all of the same traumatic effects. Maybe there needs to be more work done towards healing those wounds? I don't really know because I don't know what you did to get over that but it just seems to me like it's not something you just get over even after a long time has passed. It just seems like it would be hard to be ready for a relationship until you've fully addressed that.

 

I'm not saying that previous abuse is an excuse for abusing someone else but what I am saying is that it probably takes a lot of time and working through your feelings about it before you can be ready to be involved with anyone. Do you think that was part of the problem?

[CarnelianButterfly]

You're acting the same way you did before.

 

When do you go to therapy? Have you told your therapist about the way you've been acting. The way you analyze each little sentence like its a huge thing. You are not well, you really need help.

[melrich]

Dan just mentioned that in the last relationship he was the abused. Here is his first post about that relationship in 2004. Make up your own minds.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Please see your therapist... those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it... The cycle is repeating, and you're cranking up to making the same mistakes again... please don't do this to yourself or your ex.

 

it's not about confidence, it's about understanding...

[sadk]

Dan,

 

It's starting to seem like a game at this point. If you do X, Y, and Z, she'll eventually come back. This doesn't sound loving at all. To me, her response to your offers to return her stuff sounded like a way to get you to stop. And her "caring words" sounded more like someone who hated seeing someone she once loved deeply tearing himself down. Also, you seem to be pursuing her even just by asking "do you want me to mail this?" It sounds like nothing more than an excuse to contact her again. Why not just mail them without all the questions, even to her place of work? Oh, and the fact that you think she's not being respectful is way over the top. Sounds like the kind of attitude that pushed her away.

 

If you love her, and I think she knows how you feel but I'm not so sure it's love or the fact that you hate the fact that you lost her, but if you can find the part that loves her, let her go. Leave it to her to make contact if that's what she chooses at some point.

[majord23]

Dan,

You received a huge blow on Sunday - your ex told you that she didn't want any contact with you. Anyone on this forum would find that hard to deal with. Some of your posts suggested that as much as it hurt...you *were* going to deal with it and respect your ex's wishes. That was a new leaf for you mate - and I really thought you were going to see it through.

 

However, what I see now is a guy who is trying to avoid dealing with the pain he felt on the weekend. I think you are looking for a way of erasing Sunday from history and attempting to start again (in terms of reintroducing yourself into your ex's life). I think that you are thinking "If only I didn't push so hard on Sunday, I wouldn't be in this position"...so are trying to rectify it.

 

Understandable mate, but not necessarily the right thing to do. You are definitely reverting to some "Old Dan" behaviours here and I think that you are going to find that unless you give your ex what she wants (letting her go) that you are going to find yourself in the same position you were in on Sunday - your ex telling you that she doesn't want you to contact her.

 

You are delaying the inevitable mate - at some stage you are going to have to grieve for this relationship. You either do it now, or you do it later....the difference being that 'later' delays your healing and also runs the risk of your ex being pushed even further away (something that you probably didn't think could happen after Sunday, but something that is now looking like a distinct possibility).

 

You are analysing, re-analysing and over-analysing here. My guess is that after you send the boots you will wait for her to send you a "Thankyou" text or email - if you don't receive one, you will contact her to "make sure she got them"...and thus will begin your attempt to remain in contact. Likewise, if she *does* thank you, you will see it as her wishing to remain in contact....and so will pursue her on that pre-text.

 

Ask yourself this: What response from your ex, or lack thereof, would be the sign that tells you to let her go? (Given that she explicitly told you to do that on the weekend)

[sadk]

I agree with majord, Dan. I can see you reading almost anything she says as a sign for you to react. If she responds with a thank you, well, she broke NC. If she doesn't say thank you, then you have to call her and make sure they arrived, right? But if you know for sure they arrived, but she didn't say thank you, how dare she be so disrespectful when you were nice enough to do what you did, so you'll call and insist she respond. Any good feeling you do engender by showing respect for her choice, you'll undo by your actions. Forget about getting back with her because you'll not only not get back together, you'll leave her feeling resentful forever. The Dan she'll remember is this one.

 

Probably everyone here has felt the same things you're feeling, and wanted to fix things. But the thing you need to fix right now is this attitude of "I can get her back if I act like X, Y, and Z." Getting back together is a choice best made freely with all the facts. Seduction makes us feel powerful, but it's not the stuff of good long-term relationships. That feeling you have when you've "finally figured it out" is just power over another person. It's not love. It may be that that feeling of power was what you loved, and not her. A common source of anger is a sense of loss of power or control. Go back through all the times you displayed anger with her and I'm sure in most cases it was because you felt that loss and tried to regain control in some way.

 

Right now, you have no control over what she does and all your actions and rationalizations seem to be about regaining control of her. In a true love affair, there is no desire to control.

 

I would strongly suggest inaction on your part with anything to do with her. Then, with the help of your counselor, monitor your feelings. Deep changes do not happen within a matter of weeks. I learned this. I'm not judging you because I had the same way of thinking. If only I could never display my anger in front of her again, she'd see how I changed. But I hadn't actually changed. My new behaviors were just as controlling and manipulative. It took months before I could say that I'd started to change. And after that, I still found that part of me calling to react with anger or blame or resentment. It will probably always be in there, just like a smoker who finally sees the light might still have the occasional urge even when he knows it's stupid. The goal for me was to reach a point where I give my feelings (and my urges to react) time to settle down until things are clear and I know what to do: Usually nothing.

 

There's a lot of work to be done. You're goal should be a better understanding of yourself so that you never hurt anyone again.

[Wandering_Sword]

We speak about ends and beginnings. Can you see real end or a real beginning? These are only names. Human mind needs to create time. Ends. Beginnings. Just moments. And if every moment is just a moment, you are the one who choose what this moment is. An end, or a beginning. You choose.

[Firedancer03]

Dan,

 

I have to agree with the others here. As I was reading through your posts, I sorta cringed. This all is a huge psychological game to you, whether you realize it or not. You are trying to analyse her feelings and trying to rationalize why she did what she did or what she is thinking. The fact of the matter is, is that you don't know what she is thinking or why she left so quickly on Sunday. Regardless of what was running through her head, she left because she did not want to be there with you. What you do know is that she left you and she told you she never wanted you to contact her anymore.

 

The thing to do now is to not contact her. I'm sorry, but I dont see whats so hard to understand there. She is not being "receptive to the new Dan" or anything. She wasn't defending you in any way or being kind and considerate offering you to keep her umbrella. She was being polite, but based on her responses, she wanted to stop talking to you as quickly as possible. She is a girl who wishes to be away from you. She does not see a different side of you. She doesnt want to talk to you, but she also said that she doesn't want to feel rude by not responding. So you contact her and she responds, but she cut it as short as she could. She does not want to have any contact with you at all Dan, please understand that. Why are you are going through the game-playing waiting 2 hours in between texts or thinking that she is "testing" you by saying goodbye? She isnt testing you or wanting you to chase her. She wants you to leave her alone. I dont know what we can say to get it through your head here, but she does not want to be in contact with you. She wants you out of her life. What is left to understand?

 

I dont mean to sound harsh, but this is the reality of it. You sound like you are completely obsessed with getting her back no matter what. You are playing games and trying to manipulate her into coming back by "showing her" a new Dan or what you think is bold and courageous gesture. Please just leave her alone. Let her be. You need to leave her alone because that is what she's asked you to do several times. Please do not continue this behavior any longer. I hate to say this, but if you do not leave her alone she might take some drastic measures. Please, for both of your sakes, just let her go and start to accept that fact that she is not coming back.

[savoie]

i think the mixed signals that you perceive coming from your ex are actually a reflection of you.

 

you refuse to accept her boundaries. she has said that it's over - but you will not accept it. she has tried in a variety of ways to get her point accross to you - but you don't want to hear it. she sounds like a caring, loving person who has feelings. don't confuse this with her wanting to be with you.

you sound very fragile and i am sure that she is worried about your well being.

 

but she has put her wellbeing first, as she should, and if you don't respect it -you are likely going to face serious consequences. she has tried to be nice to you. she has tried to communicate with you. her words to you are not coming through - because you continue to twist her reasons for allowing conversation with you. what will you do if she completely refuses to speak with you? what will you do if she gets a restraining order on you? are you going to suddenly turn on her? will you begin to post about what an awful, cruel, nasty, insentive person she is? how far are you going to push her? when are you going to let her live again?

 

if you love this woman, if you have any respect for her at all - let her get on with her life. do not contact her. do not stalk her. do not contact her family or friends. she doesn't deserve what you are doing to her.