No More Hope

[GoingForIt_77]

After having given her the space she asked for (post break-up), she emailed me to ask if we could make the exchange (our stuff). That turned into us talking for 5 hours one night (very open, affectionate, loving and honest). Talking 3 nights later for another hour (up beat and open again) and texting each other this past Saturday.

 

She came over today to make the exchange. We hugged each other from the get go, but she was closed pretty much from the moment she looked into my eyes. She was nervous and it made me insecure. As soon as she sensed it and said this doesn't feel right, she left almost right away. She initially said she was willing to play it by ear, but something clicked in her head when she was over. She was open on Monday night, Thursday night and even Saturday night (our 3 conversations).

 

She forgot her boots at my place. I tried calling her back as soon as she left. She didn't return my call until hours later, saying this:

 

It's over. She doesn't want anymore. She wants/needs me to let her let go (her words). She can no longer have me in her life, now or ever (her words).

 

She was kind about it.

 

She told me that after having seen me today, she realizes that the pain/fear is still there and will never go away fully and she can't have me in her life anymore.

 

I wasn't very accepting of this. It was a far cry from our conversations from last week, or her "I need space".

 

She saw last weeks conversations as a means of us getting things off our chest that we needed to. She said she was curious to see me today, to see if she would feel comfortable with me. She didn't (even though I was trying to be as non-threatening as possible).

 

She said she wakes up every morning remember what I did to her. She said she cries all the time and she can't keep doing this and she needs me to let her go and not for just now, but forever.

 

She said the love we shared and the love that she still has is no longer an issue. What matters now is that I let her go. She said it hurts too much to be in each others lives.

 

She is in pain. She was nice to the whole while. I didn't let her go (I prolonged it). She said nothing I can say will ever change her mind, because it is now made up and she will not go back on her decision.

 

She said please don't make me have to be the ***** who has to ignore your calls. She said she needs for me to respect her decision and time won't change it. Nothing will. I asked her if she would ever want to know what happens to me in my life and she said she wants the best for me and she told me to keep talking to my therapist, BUT, she can never know anything about my life ever again. She said she needs this to be the END.

 

I told her that she'll make someone very happy someday. She said she can't even think of that now. I then said I would have loved to have been that man and she said, "you could have been". She said that no one has ever hurt her as much as I did and it hurt her that much, because she never loved anyone as much as she loved me and no matter how sweet I am now, or how much I have changed, it doesn't and can't take away what I did to her.

 

It was hard saying goodbye. We were both crying. The love is still there, but I guess I hurt her way too much for her to ever forget.

 

My conflict is that I want her to be happy and I want to respect her decision, which is VERY final, but does it really mean to NEVER reach out ever again? Any call I place in months or years from now, will be too soon? She really is serious. Her mind is made up and she is really strong now. She knows that she NEVER deserved what I did and nothing can ever take that away and she can never see me the same way ever again (without the fear and the memories of what I put her through). She isn't living in the past, but she'll never be able to see past what I did to her and for her, that FAR overshadowed the love and for her, it HAS to be over and she has to cut me out of her life, if we are both going to be able to move on eventually, even though she can't even consider having a boyfriend now (her words).

 

Is it really over? Is there no chance ever? With someone as sure as she is, is it impossible?

[melrich]

It sounds like it is over. You now just have to respect her wishes. It may be that sometime in the future your paths may cross but right now you just have to let her go.

[GoingForIt_77]

Is it true that she'll never be able to see me any differently, or is that how she feels just now and to her, even though that feels VERY real, does it mean that that feeling will ALWAYS be there, whenever she sees me, as it did when she saw me for the first time today in 26 days?

 

She was open on the phone the 3 previous times, but after having seen me in person, she was a different person. I think she gave herself that chance to see what it would be like. I keep asking myself, could I have said something different with her in person. Did she no longer find me attractive? Was it my composure? Was is my tone? Did I bleed desperation, or was there nothing I could have said or did that would have made her want to stay longer and be more comfortable with me? It was her after all who insisted on coming to MY place to do the exchange, even after I told her repeatedly that I would mail her her stuff if she preferred. We had 3 great conversations over the phone (all last week) and then as soon as she saw me, she went cold and then tonight's conversation, where she wanted me to "LET HER GO" (literally and figuratively) and no longer be part of each others lives, because it hurt too much and is too painful for her.

 

As much as she is ADAMENT in saying that her mind is now fully made up and she will not change her mind, can that change in time, even though she's saying it can't?

 

Was it just too soon to have seen each other, or will it always be too soon for her?

[melrich]

I think in relationship break ups there is often uncertainty on both sides. The dumper will often second guess themselves and will grieve for a relationship just like the dumpee.

 

But there does come a moment of clarity and I think that is what she has had. These past 26 days she's probably missed the relationship, thought about maybe seeing you in person again and when she has she's realised it's not what she wants.

 

She will think about you differently in time because time does mellow feelings. Right now things are pretty raw and she is hurt but I would expect that to mellow. Whether she will ever want to see you again is another question. You will have both moved on by then and it may just not be an issue either of you would consider.

[GoingForIt_77]

She definitely was confused up until today, seeing I was doing everything right after the break up. I respected her space and it allowed her to take it to the phone, where only 2 weeks earlier she did not want to.

 

Our conversations on the phone were open last week. It was refreshing and warm and we were even talking about doing things together (my suggestions and her not saying no).

 

She was answering my calls, my texts and it was progressing until she saw me today, where things drastically changed.

 

The truth is, I still had feelings and seeing her that uncomfortable around me and even verbalizing so, HURT and made me instantly insecure and probably made her sense my own doubt and in turn increased her own and right after that, I was back to CHASING her, until we finally had our LAST conversation, where she said she NEEDED me to let her go. I had no choice at the end to do so, as much as it hurts.

 

I just don't want to believe that it's over forever, but that's exactly what she said it would be and not only a relationship, but ANY and all contact, FOREVER. Why so final and why the change of heart in only a day?

[daletroN]

i've read your posts from the beginning and as hard as it is, you love her right? so no matter how hard it is, even in a few months when you think enough time has passed by, DO NOT CONTACT HER. she's asking and telling you this, so respect her because you LOVE HER, that's it.

 

is it over good? yea it is man. will you talk to her again one day? of course, she says she doesn't want to know anything about your life etc, that's because she's hurting. but i guarantee that one day when she's healed, it could be years from now- you'll hear from her again. and who knows, when that day comes, it wont hurt for neither of you and if that spark is still there, who knows what can happen.

 

bottom line is that you messed up in the relationship, so if you ever want to make that up to her, do not contact her WHATSOEVER until the day she does. everytime u feel like u want to, just remind yourself that you love her and you won't because of the fact that you do.

 

take care man, it's not going to be easy.. reality will hit you and it will be rough, but life does move on and i guarantee you too will be happier again one day, just hang in there for now, find some hobbies, fill your schedule with different things to fill the void of when she was there and move on bro, there's nothing else u can do. good luck

[CarnelianButterfly]

I just don't want to believe that it's over forever, but that's exactly what she said it would be and not only a relationship, but ANY and all contact, FOREVER. Why so final and why the change of heart in only a day?

Talking on the phone and coming face to face with someone are two very different experiences. You have a degree of separation on the phone, you're safe and in your own space, the only part of the other person with you is their voice. Emotionally it can be trying, but there isn't going to be the physical discomfort of sharing physical space with a person. A phone conversation has only words and intonations, you don't see the body language and have direct eye contact. The phone probably felt safe for her since she knew you couldn't touch her, but put you in the same room and it brings a whole new level of fear.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Dan... I am sorry to hear that this did not turn out the way you hoped. I know you were angry with some of us for saying this might happen before, but that is only because that is how it goes a lot of times, and we were afraid this was where it was heading and you would be disappointed and heartbroken as you are...

 

You could have been doing everything right for the last month, and done everything right since you have been talking to her, ahd she could still come to this conclusion, so it was probably not anything you have done wrong since you broke up... it really sounds like she has just made up her mind that regardless of anything you do now or have done since the breakup, it is just not worth the risk for her emotionally or physically to continue with you... there has been a lot of water over that dam, and maybe too much for her to handle, or trust that it won't happen again.

 

There may come a period of time a long time away when she might be open to talking to you, but i think if you try to do anything to contact her now, or anytime soon, she could be both angry and upset since she has told you very clearly she wants no contact.

 

So please continue with your own healing and therapy... plenty of us have done something stupid that has cost us a relationship that was important to us, but learning how not to behave badly in the future will mean you can form a good relationship in the future, and find someone who will love and not be so afraid of you that this kind of breakup would happen again...

 

best of luck, it is hard, but at least you know where you stand with her now, and can move on with your life and healing.

[GoingForIt_77]

Knowing where I stand now with her, is in many ways what I pushed for. When she left my appt. yesterday, she texted me saying she needs space.

 

Instead of leaving it there, I DID call, goating her into a conversation (more than one last night), that she was not prepared or ready to have. THAT is what sealed my fate in many ways with her.

 

As nice as our conversations were last week and as much as we were kind and respectful to each other, I was not able to pull off our meeting yesterday successfully.

 

YES, it was HER who wanted to come over. I insisted that I send her her stuff in the mail. SHE wanted to come over nonetheless. Was it too soon to see me? Most certainly. I still had too many feelings to be able to conceal from her (my eyes can't lie) and in turn, she got uncomfortable and scared and wanted to RUN away, in which she did.

 

I told her last night, after shedding MANY tears that she'll make someone very happy one day and she said she doesn't even want to think about that and I said, I wish that someone could have been me. She said, it could have been you. I wanted it to be you.

 

I know that feelings are dynamic and I know that time is the healer, but time won't ever take back WHAT I did to her in the relationship. Forgiving me is one thing. Forgetting is something else.

 

Yes, I know now that this is WAY to early to even consider having contact with her. She needs to FEEL that I am respecting her now and more than just for a few days and weeks. Perhaps going away for an indefinite amount of time, CAN allow her to see things differently.

 

In the meatime, I have no choice but to continue to live my life. I can always look her up in the future (she's far from unreachable.....text, cell, email, work, home, her mutual friend, etc....), BUT, that should not be my concern now. Working on myself should be and letting her heal from this should be as well and as much as she says that time will never change the way she feels, I know that time DOES have a powerful effect on the way we see things.

 

3.5 weeks was just too soon. We never really did NC (one week wasn't NC)...

 

I'll jump on SuperDave's thread and start marking off those days, because I have to stay away for a good while, both for her and for me.

[sadk]

GFI, when someone is ambiguous about something, if you argue one side, they naturally move to the other side. Think about that. She sounds like she was ambiguous. The more you push for contact or for getting back together, the less she has to consider that side of the ambiguity. If you argue that it will be great to be back together (even without words, just through your actions and attitude), she doesn't have to argue that side, so she can focus on thinking about why you shouldn't be together.

 

This is why often when the dumpee finally moves on, the dumper often comes around. My ex and I made a decision to be friends after we split. But every now and then in the weeks that followed, she would say that it was too hard and pull away and say she wanted to stop contact for a while at least. But it never lasted more than a couple of days. Then we had a huge blow out and she decided that was it. We didn't talk at all for a couple of weeks, and when we did talk, it was kind of just short e-mails with news. Finally, I decided it was stupid because no matter what, we'd always be friends. No matter what ever happened between us, I knew if she needed something, I'd be there. I wrote and told her that and she said she didn't want that anymore. She'd moved on. I replied that we didn't have to act on it, all I was saying was that we were friends and always would be. I ended by saying, you know who I am and you know where I am. I didn't expect to hear from her for a long time at best. A week later she wrote to me and it was like nothing had ever happened. We've been in contact ever since.

 

I know it goes against 99% of what is said here, but my philosophy is if I can't be a friend to her on her terms, how can I say I love her? I had to get to the point that I accepted a) I love her b) she doesn't want to be with me c) anything I did out of love had to be just that: out of love, and not because I expected anything in return.

 

She's also angry with you, but doesn't know how to express that. I suspect that's partially due to things that you did, and partially due to things other people in her past did.

 

I also personally believe that it should never be about "getting back together". Like you, I damaged the trust she had for me. Now, my ideal situation would be to have her trust again. I've gone through a lot of self-examination over 18 months and I did not like who I was. She was right to ask me to leave. I was selfish and at least part of the time, uncaring in how I behaved. If I were to do anything now just to get back together, that would also be selfish. But I do think I will one day have her trust again because I have gone through change, and that makes me feel good. It's not for me. It's not about guilt anymore. It's about a closeness we shared that I know she didn't experience a lot in her life, and I hope she feels it again.

 

In summary, stop trying to get back with her. It's the most loving thing you can do. Rather, let her know that if the time ever comes when she needs a friend, she can turn to you. And make it clear that it will only as a friend, that you won't attempt to use the situation to try to get back together, and that you will let her go, and also that you won't attempt to contact her out of respect for her wishes. Let her heal, but let her know that you will always care and always be there.

 

Good luck. This is going to be a difficult few months.

[GoingForIt_77]

SADK,

 

Thank you for your post. I guess I was just as contradicting with my words, as she may have been as well (post breakup).

 

As I continued to tell her that I respect her and know that we cannot be together right now (she would say not just now, but ever) and that I have to continue to work on myself, I would at the same time tell her that I do miss her and do love her.

 

So, I was sending mixed signals. On one hand, she probably deep down wanted what I wanted (still do), but knew that we can't have that, while at the same time, she saw me as someone who was implying that all I wanted was to be in her life, even just as friends, which in many ways, lowered her defenses and allowed her to feel safe being in my life (talking on the phone, being open).

 

We were both confused up until yesterday. As I've said, I did everything right since the breakup. It was my respecting her space and wishes that allowed her to be more comfortable with me and not feel threatened. That changed when she came over. She may have realized that she was OVER me when she saw me. It could be that she just didn't feel the spark anymore. It could be that she felt trapped and got scared. Whatever it was, she RAN away and either made up her mind right then and there, or got even more confused and hence, her having written me, telling me that she needs her space.

 

I couldn't respect that. Part of me may not have wanted to at that point. Part of me realized that I can only give so much as well and I had to protect my own feelings and so I pushed for an answer that she may not have wanted to have to give me (as she may not have wanted to have to break up with me that morning), which was I can't be in your life anymore.

 

What if I would have backed off again, instead of calling her again last night over and over? What if I would have continued to give her that space and shown her that I CAN and WILL respect that, showing that I can be trusted.

 

Did she really want space then and there? Was she still confused, or did she really want to say, I can't have you in my life anymore? Did she want me to push and push, so that she could cut me out of her life completely, to lessen her hurt? If so, I fulfilled her prophecy, as much as my fear of her leaving me, pushed her away until she did?

 

SADK, I conveyed all the love I could. I sent her a 6 links to sites that deal with coping with an abortion (she had one 3 + weeks ago). I sent her a poem by Pablo Neruda (her fav. poet), titled "If you Forget Me".

 

I wished well in my email last night. I told her that I want her to be happy. I told her that she is a beautiful and special person and that I hope her tears stop falling and are replaced with sunshine. I told her that she's never alone and that I love her (always did and always will).

 

For now, all I can do is show her that I can respect her wishes. That is my only chance of her EVER being able to see me differently and let go slowly from what I did to her.

 

Is there anything else I can do right now SADK? I don't want her love to turn into resentment towards me if I continue to pursue her in any capacity at this point in time.

[ebsmith1]

I conveyed all the love I could. I sent her a 6 links to sites that deal with coping with an abortion (she had one 3 + weeks ago).

 

Not to be nosy, but was this baby yours? I can't remember the time line of the breakup. If it was then this may have a lot to do with where things are right now.

[GoingForIt_77]

Yes, it was mine.

 

She had been nautious for sometime before we broke up. She had made a doctor's appointment, which she went to 2 days after she left me. She found out that day that she was 8 weeks pregnant. She did not tell me and decided to abort it.

 

2.5 weeks later when we finally spoke for the first time (a week ago today), she told me about it.

[ebsmith1]

That says a LOT about why she told you that she can't see you anymore or be involved with you anymore. Only she knows why she made the choice without telling you, but once it is made it changes how you feel about a lot of things. Relief or regret about that decision could be the reason for why she told you all of the things that she did. There's a lot to all of this, more than you are sharing on here. I'd leave her alone for a very long time.

[GoingForIt_77]

What do you mean by there's a lot more to this than I am sharing on here? Ask away and I'll share.

[ebsmith1]

Well this was never mentioned in any of your posts, unless I just missed it, and it's probably a huge part of her emotional state right now. There's always a lot more going on in someone's situation than can be talked about on a message board. Clearly though there is a lot to this story and a lot of reasons why she needs all the space in the world right now.

[GoingForIt_77]

Actually, I did mention it in my previous post, which is trailing behind this one.

 

Initially when she found out, she was probably riddled with pain and grief. My having given her space, which she really did appreciate, allowed her to feel comfortable and safe enough to see the love behind it and want to talk to me and all last week, we did. We bonded on Monday night, without talking about getting back together. Thursday night, she was almost excited to hear from me (actually picking up the phone on the 2nd ring). She replied to my Saturday's text, telling her I hope she had fun that night, wishing me the same and including a smiley face (I was on cloud nine).

 

Then came Sunday (yesterday). She seemed different when she came over. She was really looking at my actions and I could tell that she didn't want to get serious, or talk about ANYTHING (abortion included). She was rushed to put her things in a bag and LEAVE. This confused me, based on our previous conversations.

 

She left and later on when she replied to my calls/emails, she said she needed space (as she did only 5 days after the breakup, of which I gave her) and I didn't accept that called her more than once (using a bit of manipulation). I forced her to confront me and what she was running away from (her feelings) and she BAILED, as she did the day she broke up with me. She took it to the next level and said she can't have me in her life and she can't be there for me and asked me to allow her to let me go, meaning she couldn't do it on her own.

 

As to what she's going through now, I don't really know. I know this cannot be easy on her. I could have respected her request for space, but it was also her way of running away from something I wanted her to face (felt she needed to) and in turn, she made me have to face and accept what she then told me.

[keefy1972]

I've been following your posts and saw that someone had asked you once but you never answered, nor have you gotten into detail about it, but what exactly did you do to her to make her so afraid?

 

Did you beat her up or what??

[GoingForIt_77]

I NEVER beat her up. I never once put my hands on her. NOT ONCE.

 

I raised my voice more and more as the relationship progressed. I never yelled with anyone else before her, but with her I did. I was very sensitive to little things and would question your sincerity, her love, her loyalty. I didn't let in her love when she wanted and needed me to. I was hard to reach (emotionally). I became a bit controlling and jealous. I had up a wall, that with time came down, but when it came down, so did a flood of other emotions that had not been dealt with. Mostly my fears of rejection. She was able to see past it, even though it hurt and scared her. I knew that I was losing control of myself and I was desperately trying to restrain myself and NOT do to her what I promised no one would ever do to her again (her family).

 

It built up in her until she had to leave me, while in tears, saying it hurt SO much, because she loved me with all her heart. She was torn, because on one end I was the way I just described, but on the other end, I told her never to take crap from anyone and to put herself number one at all times. I encouraged her to get a new job. I helped her build a better relationship with her family, by her demanding their respect.

 

At the end, her love for me was overshadowed by the hurt and the fear of getting hurt again and she began to realize that deserved to be treated well all the time and she did and DOES.

 

In the last 26 days post breakup, I completely lost that other side of me. I showed her patience, understanding, remorse, respect, kindness and she slowly started allowing me back in last week, until yesterday that is.

[majord23]

GFI,

I'm sorry to hear how this has panned out mate, I really am.

 

What do you do from here? It's the simplest, yet hardest thing to do - you let her go completely. You have to respect her decision and leave her alone.

What went through her head yesterday, and what is going through her head right now is anyone's guess. One thing that I can tell you for a fact is that there is no point speculating - it will have you chasing your tail and attempting to solve a problem that you cannot solve.

 

She may contact you somewhere down the track, or she may not. Don't hold on to any assumption that she will however - that will just hold you back and prevent you from truly moving on. Do not, under any circumstances contact her. just leave her be - if she does change her mind somewhere down the track, she will let you know. I don't think that there is a "right amount of time to wait" in this situation - she has made herself crystal clear.

There is no plan here regarding her GFI - the only plan you have to focus on now is getting yourself through this.

 

Keep posting and keep strong.

 

Sadk's post is excellent btw GFI, print it out bro.

[melrich]

I couldn't respect that. Part of me may not have wanted to at that point. Part of me realized that I can only give so much as well and I had to protect my own feelings and so I pushed for an answer that she may not have wanted to have to give me (as she may not have wanted to have to break up with me that morning), which was I can't be in your life anymore.

 

What if I would have backed off again, instead of calling her again last night over and over? What if I would have continued to give her that space and shown her that I CAN and WILL respect that, showing that I can be trusted.

 

I agree totally with what majord said above. You have to leave her alone now. She has asked you to leave her alone and yet you still call and email her. Keep this up and you are venturing into stalking category. Stop looking for hope to hang on to. You did not push her away the other day. She knows what she wants and she has told you. You have to respect her right to make this decision and her right to some peace with it.

 

I am sure if you do respect her wishes now there is some good hope that you will be able to be friends sometime in the future.

[CarnelianButterfly]

You've said in the past that her answers weren't definite and that you needed her to say "never again". She's said it, but you still cling, let go.

 

Leave her alone.

 

She has made her feelings know, you are not wanted in her life, at all.

 

Any contact is disrespecting her choice, ANY, one email, phone call, letter, whatever. She has said she wants nothing of you.

 

If you don't leave her alone, she has every right to have you kept away by police and court orders.

[GoingForIt_77]

I have no intention of stalking her. Why does everyone think the worst of me (or just some on here...not all)?

 

Yesterday was an emotional day. I was giving her what she wanted since the breakup, which was not to cut me out of her life completely. YES, she could not be with me in a relationship, now or ever for that matter, but what she asked for was space. I gave her space. As a result of that, she was open to communication, and we had that last week and up until Sunday.

 

Yesterday was an emotional day (after she left). It left me confused, seeing how receptive she was on Sunday, Monday, Thursday and Saturday and for the first time since the breakup, I chased her. It ended last night.

 

She will not have a reason to call the police on me. She will not have to live in fear that I will be hounding her every move.

 

I gave her space for a reason after the breakup. She needed to be able to breathe and not be reminded by the source of her hurt and pain (ME). In many ways, I see this as being the same, but the only difference is, 1-2 weeks of NC was enough for her (not in seeing me in person clearly), but now, I feel that a lot longer is required. She has a lot of pain to heal and I know that I am too damn emotional (focusing too much on the relationship and how weak I've become) to even have any right to be in contact with her today.

 

Her feelings, or more so her fear and hurt may go away in time. I do have to give her a chance to heal. I am not making any promises that I wouldn't say contact her in a couple of months to check in. It would be her perogative at that point to reciprocate or not. One thing I will not do, is impose myself on her and especially not now.

 

Yesterday she went from WANTING to see me, to she needs SPACE, to I can't be in your life anymore. What did I do for that to happen? I pushed, pushed and pushed.

 

Now, I have to step back and prove to her that I can be strong for the both of us and give her all the space in the world.

[melrich]

I have no intention of stalking her. Why does everyone think the worst of me

 

Because you say things like this,

 

I didn't accept that called her more than once (using a bit of manipulation).

 

If someone asks you not to call or make contact you have to really accept that. OK maybe in the heat of the moment you "needed" to call her. But it is important that you stop doing that now.

[GoingForIt_77]

Melrich mate, I have stopped.

 

It was her having gone back to saying she needed space because she was confused and when I chased her she put on the breaks changed the locks on the passenger side door.

 

Again, it was a confusing day for me yesterday. On one hand, I had a girl who had become more and more friendly with me from Sunday onwards (4 contacts) and wanting to come to my place, after I gave her the option of having her things mailed to her.

 

It hurt, because part of me felt that my feelings were not fully taken into account yesterday and knowing I had done nothing wrong persay and then being told she needs space again, which I understand, because she clearly wasn't ready to see me either. She thought she was, but she wasn't.

 

Anyways, I pushed her last night. I chased. I acted weak and for the first time I actually sounded and acted desperate. That's all she needed to finalize a decision I had made for her.

 

She has an impression of me. For her, right now, the bad outweighs the good. She cannot see, or remember the good, because I am still around. Removing myself from her life is the only chance I have of being able to have any type of relationship/friendship with her. She needs to experience things without me. She needs to possibly even date and know that people DO make mistakes. By me constantly apologizing for somethint I can NEVER take back is NOT helping. By me respecting her now, WILL.