PLEASE - some advice!

[Hope75]

Hey There,

 

I'm glad that you went to see the lawyer. This is definitely something that is long overdue.

 

It shows that you are finally starting to accept where this is going and that shows alot of strength on your part.

 

Do you plan to file the papers?

[radioheader]

hey when you say it is forever...do you not think she would ever remarry...no more alimony if she does...

 

but regardless...it sounds as though it would be worth it...your happiness is "priceless"...glad you are finding your way to it!

[Soon_tobex]

Well, I had a talk with her a few days ago. Basically trying to see where we are. Didn't go extremely well but at least I told her that I don't want it to continue as is and that for us to consider any future we both needed to seek outside help. THAT went over like a lead balloon. She just doesn't think that someone from the outside could possibly help and, further, she doesn't see that she needs any help - I do. Not her.

 

At which point I told her that I had been thinking a long time about her point of view on many things. I told her that, in my opinion, she is suffering too much but it's not because of me (at least not only). I told her I think she needs help to find happiness with or without me and that she should consider if she may have something like "OCPD".

 

THAT went over extremely poorly. As I knew it would.

 

She's been not talking to me since before Christmas. Basically ignoring me. I'll be talking to the kids and she'll talk over me. Today, I asked the kids if they wanted to head out and my daughter said "Mom won't come cause she hates you".

 

Niiiiicccce.

 

At dinner, wifey didn't set a place for me, just for the kids.

 

Niiiiccceeeee.

 

So, I set my own place and said "Huh. Will you look at this kids..someone forgot to set my place. No prob, I got it"

 

I called today about a really nice house that is for rent literally up the street from where we currently live. I can afford it and it would allow the kids to walk up to see me. We live in a suburb, but kind of in the middle of town, so it's not like I'm too close. Trust me, I have no desire to watch wifey. I just love the fact that the kids could easily stroll up to see Dad.

 

I'm planning tomorrow to have another talk w/ wifey. This is nuts. She's being so mean and vindictive and I don't know why. Heck, I didn't DO anything! She's the one who should be apologizing. Oh right! She has never apologized for anything. Ever.

 

So tomorrow I'll see if we can have a real talk about divorce. Last time we tried she started getting mad (then slightly scared and teary) because she was concerned she wouldn't get credit. All our credit has been in my name for 19 years. Well, you know what: tough. Actually she'll be fine cause she'll be getting a huge amount of money in the settlement and a nice alimony check.

 

Dear readers: she'll never have to work. She's 44.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

I'm tired. This is tiring.

[Beec]

I think with the way things are you don't have much choice, so long as your wife won't even think about improving things. I would guess that she blames you for something, and she wants to be right more than she wants to be in love or to love.

 

Good luck.

[Soon_tobex]

Well. I feel like I'm watching a movie but it's really happening to me. Roller coaster ride ahead! Today started off with a massive fight which morphed into a fairly productive discussion. She threw stuff - I threw it back (thanks Beec!). We talked finances...living arrangements..

 

I can't believe it's happening. But I'm starting to get my head around the fact that I've given her 19 years of a darn good life, 3 great kids, no real worries, and complete freedom to be who she wants to be - but she's not happy. And she blames me.

 

I've busted my butt and built a lovely life for us. She has worked hard too - very hard. But still, she's not happy. And still, she blames me.

 

 

Well, Super Dave, I'm with you pal. She wants out. She's got it.

 

I called today about a really nice little house for rent down the street from where we live. The kids could walk up to see Dad - hopefully they will .

 

Stay tuned. And thanks everyone. You have been really helpful.

[Beec]

I called today about a really nice little house for rent down the street from where we live. The kids could walk up to see Dad - hopefully they will .

 

Stay tuned. And thanks everyone. You have been really helpful.

 

Soon_tobeex,

 

I count myself among the most optimistic here about people's abilities to reconcile. So, I won't tell you that you and your wife won't live together happily ever after, but as things are there is no change in sight. You wife seems unwilling to change. At the very least, it will require something drastic to change her mind. Leave.

 

Give your kids keys to your new house.

 

And learn to live life without her terror.

[SuperDave71]

Soon,

 

 

I agree with Beec on this one. It is better to love your kids 200000% than to even try to love this woman you call a "wife". At least with your kids, you get that love reurned 20000000% with no questions or doubts. I mean no insult when I say this.

 

It sickens me to know she refused to talk, get help, work it out, marriage counseling, or even a simple let's take some for one another. She refused to budge. I have NO DOUBT that you are emotionally exhausted as well as physically.

 

You tried Soon. You tried and tried and tried. We could only help you so much but you gave it 100% in my opinion. There is NOTHING to be upset about. You did what you had to do. I hope she finds what she is looking for but MOST of all, I hope you know that no matter what happens with you, that you will get the love YOU DESERVE delievered right back to you and the children.

 

You need anything....you feel free to post. I look forward to hearing from you and to hear how your new life is going. Take care!!!

 

 

 

Your Friend,

 

SuperDave71

[Beec]

I agree with Dave. You tried, you asked, you failed, and you were on the receiving end of a bunch of hostility. Stinks. What else can you do, endure more misery, and if so, why would you?

 

However, my one other warning might be that she might wake up and smell what she thinks is coffee and realize that the stench of her own crap is shocking her into some sense or be in mortal fear of living what will be her new life.

 

First, you cannot let her saying it, if it happens, change your course of action. If she totally reverses course tomorrow afternoon, then you will still need to continue, becuase you need to make sure the reversal is not temporary. She should demonstrate it over time.

 

Second, if anything ever happens again, then you need to realize you will be starting over with each other. You won't trust her, she will need to show she is trustworthy, etc., just as if she were a new woman you were dating, and then some, because of the history. When relationships get askew, they only get right when we back up and repeat steps. The more askew, the further you need to back up.

 

Now, I am optimistic, and I would hope for this, myself, but I am also going to be someone who tells you that this is a BIG, BIG LONGSHOT. This is like betting on one number when playing roulette. Your chances of winning are slim, and you will not be getting too many spins of the wheel. Don't bet all your chips on this happening. Her character has been set for a long time and changing it would be difficult, and she has shown not an iota of interest in doing that. So, if it happens, let me know and I will bet a bunch of whatever other longshot you recommend. Still, don't count on it. It won't happen.

 

This is time for Soon to begin building the rest of his life. To create the life he wants for him, taking in mind all that has occurred. Create that life, enjoy living it.

[Soon_tobex]

Thanks SD and Beec! There's no way she'll 'wake and smell the coffee'. She's waaaaaay too stubborn for that. No how. No way. Boy I'd love that cause there's a lot about her that I DO like, but there are some things that just are unacceptable.

 

Plus, well, let's not forget: she is kinda, somewhat, sorta throwing ME out. So, it's not like I really have an option to stay.

 

Going to see another lawyer in an hour (get a second opinion).

 

She told me yesterday that she did talk to our oldest son (16) and told him that "Mom and Dad are having real problems and that it doesn't look good."

 

Wow. Thanks for letting me be part of that discussion.

 

I don't think my younger two have been clued in yet. There are two huge dips on the roller coaster ride ahead - 1) telling the kids and 2) moving out.

 

After that, it's actually not that hard for me to imagine the future. Anyone out here willing to help a guy with some interior decorating? The last room I decorated was a dorm room - and that look probably won't work for me anymore.

 

 

 

Soon

[SuperDave71]

I will grab some beer and go get Beec. I am sure while I am drinking, you and beec can run to the "Home Depot" for supplies!!

 

HAH AHA HA HA AHA HA AHA

 

 

 

Kidding!!!

 

 

 

SuperDave71

[AwdreeHpburn]

She told me today that I'm just not 'strong enough' for her. What she means is she views me as weak, timid, not forceful, not "manly". And in her own words she, herself, has 'too much testosterone' .

 

While there may be some truth to some of that, she's been THIS way forever. And really, I don't think she DOES want a man. As she's said, she wants to be alone.

 

As she says "your the weak one, you aren't what I need or want, I've learned that I don't need you, I just want to be alone"

 

No she doesn't but whatever the truth is - she is not happy with you.

 

i don't know enough to say if its because of you or its just the situation, but she is clearly done.

[Beec]

Well, I have a big house that is somewhat decorated like a dorm room. When the best places to sit are futons, you know it's not ready for House & Garden. But, what I would suggest is that you do it as simply, cheaply and easily as possible, and then take your time figuring out what direction you want to go in.

 

We are going to gut most of the house's interior, so decorating it makes little sense, but right now, we need something. My living room TV is a 20 inch that I bought for $25 from an ad on craigslist. We have two futons and I'm looking for a another really cheap futon frame to put in a room. Last weekend, we sat on one of the two futons we have watched TV and the fire in the fireplace. Futons might be a good choice, for right now, because you do have kids who might use them. You can spend a few bucks on futon covers to get ones that match things, and I painted one of the cheap frames to match some chairs.

 

One thing I would do is to get copies of as many pictures of your kids and other family members as possible, get frames, even an assortment of mismatched frames, and fill the frames with the pictures and put them either all over your house or filling on entire wall, or both. And make the display both prominent and central to the real living area of your house. It will send a clear message about what is important in your life.

[Beec]

I will grab some beer and go get Beec. I am sure while I am drinking, you and beec can run to the "Home Depot" for supplies!!

 

HAH AHA HA HA AHA HA AHA

 

 

 

Kidding!!!

 

 

 

SuperDave71

 

Why kid? Let's go. Esp. if it's someplace between NYC and Memphis. I'm free this weekend.

[AwdreeHpburn]

awwwww....telling the kids.

 

Soon - I'm really sorry. And I gotta say - this is the thought that keeps me here for now. I hope its enough to get me over the hump of the worst of this, but its hard.

 

I too have kids. If you need to talk about anything when you've told them, are about to or anything at all - please feel free to PM me!!

 

I really feel for you and your situation. I know you'll pull thru - but if you need someone to vent to, I'll surely listen!!

[BeStrongBeHappy]

just my two cents... sometimes kids take it better than you think, especially if it has been very tense and awkward for a long time between the parents, and the kids are even recognizing it to the point of saying things like 'Mom hates you...'

 

It could be a huge relief of tension for everybody, and the kids not forced to take sides so much if you both agree to the separation, and you are just down the street for whenever they want to see you... so a bit of a shock at first, but probably less stressful for everybody not living with this cold war between you.

 

best of luck... it really did sound like an intolerable situation for you, and she has been very hostile and pulled no punches about saying she didn't and doesn't love you, better to be free to love and be loved by someone for the second half of your life!

[Beec]

It just occurred to me that is is possible and quite probable that all of your kids already know. The oldest one was told by her. Do you think the oldest one kept it all a secret? Because if that is not likely, then they probably all know. In which case, I think you can talk to them all together, yourself. She did it, so can you.

[Soon_tobex]

Slipping backwards. Badly.

 

Had a long talk with my wife last night. We talked about ways to avoid divorce. But I was the one pushing hard to find ideas to improve 'us'. She is not a horrible person. She really isn't. There are lots of great things about her. And for reasons I'm really struggling to clearly understand, I don't want to loose 'us'.

 

However....

 

Last night's discussion left me confused. We talked through some recent issues. That was good. We explained some of our recent actions. Also good.

 

But what's gnawing at me is the feeling I am attempting to paint over a wall that is crumbling. She's never going to hold my hand, rub my back, kiss my lips, call me to say hello, meet me at the door, run away with me for an adult weekend, laugh easily, smile frequently. She's NEVER done these things. Why would she start now???

 

And I'm never going to be whatever it is that she thinks she wants in a man.

 

She said that I sprinted to a lawyer (somewhat true but after what she said to me I figured I'd sure better do SOMETHING). She said I immediately laid out spreadsheets and calculations for asset distribution (again, true. I handle things. It's my job). She said my actions over the last several weeks indicated I wanted out, not reconciliation (well, she wasn't talking to me and told me clearly to get my own place). She said that not once did I take a day off from work to talk with her (well, i tried several times to have dialogue and I was completely ignored).

 

And she's on to something. We have been 'here' before and it used to scare me. Now it doesn't. I've become numb to it and, honestly, I kinda like the idea of being free. THAT is scary because I know I will regret lots of things.

 

Why are we (mostly me) trying to save this?

 

A little admission: the other night I went to dinner with a guy who wanted to thank me for my business. Went to a lovely place. I rarely drink, but Thursday night I did. Around 10, the restaurant was very quiet and he knew some people. We talked as a group. There was a woman there. Attractive. She and I talked. She was warm, silly, fun.

 

Nothing happened but boy was it nice to just talk to and stand close to a woman like that. My wife just is not that way, at all.

 

No replies necessary. I'm just typing cause thinking is hurting a lot lately.

[Ellie2006]

Hey there, STBX,

I've been keeping up w/ your thread and I just wanted to throw at ya another "hang in there"

I am sorry I can't be more helpful; I hope you get things resolved sooner, rather than later ...

Take care of yourself and keep on typing ...

[MathewAllan]

Soon_tobex:

 

Hate to tell you what you already know, but you are in a bad spot. I know, I have been there. My first wife, almost the same deal - just add a bit of anger and hysteria and your all set.

 

Was married 12 years, together for 16 or so. Met her when we were both young - she a bit older then me. When we met, she was in a bad spot - no money, single young Mom, dead beat Dad, living in a really bad situation with friends that were always just about to toss her out - you get the picture. I thought I could save her, make her world right, give her son a father, etc. etc. and so on. What I ended up with was a wife that married for security, not love - always insecure, criticized everything I did, and when she got upset - well lets just say she tried to run me over once.... That said, we managed to have two kids of our own - one planned, one not. She also was/is a great mother, a perfect homemaker; outside the home the picture of a perfect wife.

 

So... time goes by, I hit a wall one day after a few pots had been thrown my way and tell her - Thats it, I am leaving.... All the sudden, she can't live without me, I am the cause of her world coming to an end, look what I am doing to my kids..... Divorce is hell - you will not believe it until you go through it.

 

So what did I learn.

 

1). I used to spend most my time trying to "fix" things, make her feel better, apologize for what ever I might have done wrong. Don't - she will love you or she will not - you cannot make her.

2). If you truly love her, then tell her so - hold out your hand.... If she walks away, then so be it... see point 1.

3). Sometimes its ok to walk away... Give her space, let her work things out - if she loves you she will come back to you ... if not, see point 2.

4). The grass is not greener - make sure you both understand this... Insecurity can make people do really stupid things.... but once you jump over that fence and find out what really is on the other side, there is no jumping back.

5). Don't make it about the kids. You will stayed married because you love each other, or you will not stay married. What ever you do, don't fight your wars through the kids... you have no idea how ugly it will get - there is no greater heart break then watching your kids be destroyed.

 

Good luck to you.... I hope you find your path.....

[Soon_tobex]

I don't drink, smoke, drug, fool around. I'm in good shape, made $500k last year. I'm a good father, fun, and funny. I do more than my fair share around the house. I know how to use a tablesaw. I work hard, but am home 5 out of 7 nights for dinner. I'm not conceited (contrary to how the last few sentences may sound!).

 

She doesn't drink, smoke, drug, fool around. She's in good shape and doesn't work outside the home. Great mom. Kids are 16, 14, 13. She does everything around the house.

 

We have had sex 1 time in the past 14 months and have averaged 3 times a year for the last 5 to 6 years. She hasn't hugged me, kissed me, said "i love you" in at least 10 years. She won't go to a movie, to dinner, to lunch with me alone. We haven't been away as adults in 16 years. Haven't sat in a hot bubble bath together in 20. She won't go to a play, the opera, or skiing - or anything that most people would say is "fun".

 

Yesterday she gave me some lip because, while working from my home office, I made a PB&J sandwhich during a conference call and left the jar of PB without the lid on the counter.

 

Here's my view - and maybe here's why I'm in this whole darn situation: I want to do fun things. I want to spend some (not all ) of the money I make. I'd like to take her to Vail and sit by a fire with hot chocolate and a book for a weekend. I expect (that's a strong word, but it's how I feel) a little something in return for what I contribute to this marriage. I think that she thinks that since she does everything around the house (cooking, cleaning, yard work, painting, etc) that she is contributing 'enough'.

 

My view: I can pay someone to do all the yard work and I can send every dirty sock to a laundry. What I want is a wife, NOT a laborer. I WANT a woman who will (ONCE in a while, for heaven's sake) meet me at the door with a kiss, a wink, and say "I shipped the kids to your mother's for the weekend - take me to the city. I'll make it worth your while, you big lug".

 

I'm 44 and I'm increasingly wondering why this situation is this way.

 

Should I walk?

[Beec]

No one can tell you how or why or when to walk. It's just not something anyone of us could or should do, it's a choice you need to make under your own terms.

 

I think that if I spoke to your wife I would find some very similar things to what you wrote above. As unusual as it sounds or may sound to you, I think your wife has a set of expectations and part of them are not being met. I think that if you figured out how to meet hers that you might get some more of your met, but I also think that she has not loved you as I would expect a woman to lvoe her husband. Sorry, ladies, but sometimes you need to take care of your man whether you want to or not. And that goes the same for men taking care of their wives.

 

I have a very good friend from college. He was always the guy that chased every woman that came by. He makes friends very easily. If you put him in a room for an hour with 50 people, he will know them all by name within a few hours, then begin introducing them to each other. He is very much in the same boat as you, 43 this month, makes a decent living, good-sized home, a few kids one of which is her sibling's child that he has raised as a son, and from what I am told sex is rare in his house. I once spoke to him and told him that well, what happened is this: your married her; you thought that by doing so you had paid the price for some sex to follow; you expected sex; you asked for it from her; she might have given it to you, but she expected you to do certain things before you would get it; she never told you about these things, you were supposed to know; she did not give you sex when you asked for it; you got frustrated and then took some of that out on her; your taking out frustration on her made her want sex even less; you got it less, you had more frustration; and the cycle begins to spiral downward. He longs for a woman who will join him in the shower after a long day of work. It won't be her. At one point in time, I had part of it figured out for him. I told him do some nice things for her and don't ask for sex or act like you expect it from her, just do something nice and act like it is because you felt like doing ti with no ulterior motive. He tried it, she offered sex, he declined twice before she offered to do all the work, and as he lied there beneath her having sex, he told me thought "[beec] was right, he was right." But that was last spring, and no one wants to work at their marriage anymore, each of them wants to blame the other.

 

Now I do not know what it would have taken to have turned his wife into a sex-crazed nympho or if that was even possible. But most women I know like sex when a guy knows how to seduce her. When you marry her however, seduction does not take place in fifteen mintues, it happens all the time. Quite simply put, your wife feels that she is missing something and she doesn't like it. She may not even know what it is she is missing. As far as thigns have gone, you may not even be able to open the door to give that to her, if you did it right now.

 

However, you should figure that out. Do you ever ask her how she pictures her life, what she envisions as the ideal?

[SuperDave71]

Hey there..

 

 

You don't have to have a second opinion on this one....just read your own post again. This is so NOT about sex...but mutual respect.

 

 

It will hit you. The definitin of insanity is "DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT".

 

 

Think about it....you are in my prayers.

 

 

Your friend,

 

 

SuperDave71

[Beec]

It will hit you. The definitin of insanity is "DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT".

 

Absolutely correct.

 

If you are not going to change anything, then you should not expect anything different from her.

 

It might be that you could change something, and she could thereafter change. But that's also you first putting in more work.

[Soon_tobex]

Problem is: I really don't think she knows what she wants. In fact I have asked her to envision her perfect future and she brushes off the question as "immature" or "stupid". She just doesn't have those type of conversations. Maybe because she doesn't KNOW how to answer the question and is scared that she can't answer it, she thereforeeee brushes it off as stupid.

 

When I ask her what she wants she'll answer with different answers. Respect. Put the lid on the peanut butter. Don't park the car in her spot. More attention from me. For me to report the ambulance driver.

 

The 'attention' thing is BS. A couple of years ago I had a very easy job (life was great!) and I was home a lot. We took walks every morning together, did stuff. It was fun (at least I thought it was, I don't know what she thought). Well, during that period she through a pot at me. Put a big hole in the drywall. I don't remember the reason. So I was giving her lots of attention then and she wasn't happy (apparently).

 

The 'respect' thing I have trouble responding too - I do not know what that means. I do not talk down to her, I don't speak badly about her. I tell her I love her, etc. I love what she does around the house (and I really do) and tell everybody how she has made our place so great.

 

And all the other things (peanut butter, etc) .. frankly my view is: f off. I do (enough) stuff around here and there's no way I'm going to remember all your damn rules. So deal with it.

 

I dunno man.... should it be soooo hard? Shouldn't life be fun???? Am I a bad guy for wanting to take my wife to a B&B for a weekend and just do some antique shopping then come home?

 

I do NOT pester her for sex. I'm done pestering. It's demeaning and I don't do it anymore. I like sex. A lot. And she doesn't. At all. We never had swing from the chandelier sex. It was ok way back when. Never great - but I was good with it. Now we never have it. And I don't think she misses it. Now that is scary to me. Cause for me, I'm hitting my stride. I got the money, the car, the slightly receding hairline and there are women who would be more than happy to go to Vail and get naked.

 

She won't. I just don't think she ever will. I think I can try all I want and she just won't. I know that the grass isn't always greener. But, damn. What's the big deal - let's go to Atlantic City we'll bet $20, watch a show, sleep in a big comfy bed and go home. It would be NICE to get naked (and hardly unreasonable) but I do not make that a condition of the trip. I do NOT want to have sex with someone who feels obligated. I want her to want to.

 

I just can't imagine a way through to her. Part of me says: try something you've never tried: be an AH. Be a complete dolt. Do what you want. Maybe she'll wake up. I doubt it. It's probably too late anyway.

[Beec]

I cannott ell you that your expectations are unreasonable or reasonable. There's nothing wrong with any expectations, if your partner would like to meet them, and therein lies the whole issue.

 

The one thing I don't see you doing is requiring her to treat you with respect. When she threw a pot at you, what was the consequence of it to her? Really, that's the one thing I see missing. And a woman does not want a man she is allowed to walk all over. When was the last time you really stood up to her and told her to cut the crap and do the right thing?