PLEASE - some advice!

[Soon_tobex]

No offense taken!

 

She DEFINITELY sulks like a child and I feed into it. Problem is she also is very, very stubborn and resolute. When she doesn't get her way, she can easily go days, weeks, months sulking. She has never, ever said "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I was an idiot" about ANYTHING. I capitulate to her because I can't stand the long periods of guilt she throws at me. I know I perpetuate the problem. I know, I know. But she's realllllly good at not buckling (and I'm more of a "life's too short to be so miserable over silly little things so let's kiss and make-up" kinda guy). Said another way: I buckle easily. Maybe I just rationalize my buckling in my mind but, I dunno, the stuff that winds her up seems to me to be such small potatoes.

 

Let me be blunt.

 

She hasn't worked outside the home in 14 years. Our kids are well on the way to becoming fine, upstanding adults. They are in grades 8 and 11. While she does an AMAZING job around the house, it is HER CHOICE to stay home. I make plenty of money where she can stay home and cut the grass, paint the garage, tend to the lovely gardens OR she could get a "real job" OR she could do charity work OR she could join a garden club OR go to school OR whatever she wants. She chooses to have no friends, no social life, nothing. She chooses to work around the house - and does a great job. I have no complaints about what she does and I'm happy that she seems to be happy doing it.

 

But...

 

She has alllll day to ruminate on the smallest of details. All day to think about that drip in the upstairs bathroom. All day to think about how it's taking me a little bit longer than she'd like to finish a given task. I have a busy day filled with other things. Filled with people, conversations, email, conference calls, etc. etc. Frankly I don't remember 1/2 the things I do in a day. I love what I do - it's invigorating and challenging and...fun.

 

And when I get home, she sulks and treats me badly because she wants to eat at 5:00pm but I rarely make it home by then. My opinion: essentially nobody who has a job is home and seated for dinner by 5. She just doesn't live in the 'real world'.

 

We are both in our mid 40's. Some people change. Some people grow, others shrink. Some evolve, some devolve. Most people really don't change much. They are who they are. She is who she is. There were some things long ago that I really liked about her: she had long blond hair, a little red sports car, and a sexy French tip manicure. I thought that those things indicated a girl who was fun, a bit daring, somewhat edgy, a little sexy. Maybe 20 years is playing tricks on me, but looking back I don't know if she was those things really. She certainly isn't those things now.

 

I will always walk on eggshells with her. While we aren't openly discussing divorce, she really isn't happy. Many, many weeks ago she said "You'd probably be a good match for 99% of the women out there." At the time, I took that as an insult. I interpreted that comment to mean that I wasn't a good match for her.

 

But I've been thinking about that and it occurs to me that if the vast majority of women would find me to be a good match, but she doesn't, then she's the abnormal one, not me. The definition of normal is: "what most people do". I'm not saying that "normal" is right for everyone or that "normal" should force someone to change who they are.

 

All I'm saying is that I'm tired of walking on eggshells - cause she's not normal.

 

A few days ago, after we'd had a nice few days together, I came into the den to find her and one of our kids watching TV. Playfully I squeezed myself onto the couch between them to watch TV. The 3 of us, squished together, shoulders touching.

 

After a few moments, my wife says: could you move over please? I said: I'm not sure I could move any closer. She: i meant, move the OTHER way. Me: feeling unloved and hurt, slid over a bit.

 

A few moments later, my son came in and my wife patted her lap and said "Here, sit here." He did and for 20 minutes she rubbed his back while his nearly 6' 150lb frame crushed her lap.

 

I gotta tell you, that really crushed me. I didn't show it, but c'mon. And that type of thing happens a lot.

 

But apparently 99% of the women out there wouldn't mind their husband slipping down on the couch next to them to watch a little TV?

 

When I come home from work she almost never, ever says "Hi". She very frequently doesn't even look at me. Me? I always say "Hi" and try to get a response. When the kids come home from school, she runs. Literally RUNS to meet them and lavishes them with greetings. Our kids are teenagers and she runs to them like they are 1st graders getting off the bus for the first time.

 

Of course, I have no problem with her loving our children. But tell me why she can't say hello to me?? What have I done to be such a bad guy?

 

WHY am I having such a tough time with this??????

[aurora1475]

I missed something....I thought I was on the last page.

[Hope75]

You are having a hard time because you are constantly being rejected and are in a loveless marriage with someone who treats you like garbage.

 

But, as long as you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always gotten.

 

It's your choice.

[LeggyRedHead]

Hiyas STB,

 

This could get long (and could be wrong, though I'll defend it to the bitter end...lol) so grab some coffee and put on your thinking cap, k?

 

I've read your entire thread...twice (whew!) and noticed some little things that, when added together, give insight into what's probably going on in your marriage.

 

The Red Flags:

1) First post you said that she does EVERYTHING around the house, including the mowing. You then contradict that over and over again by saying that you pull more than your share around the house, compared to "most other guys".

 

2) You stated several times that she tells you that you are too weak and won't stand up for her. Then you proceed to ignore that statement and assume that she is simply being mean in belittling you in this way...while citing a story of her close call with a bad driver and sloughing her off as exagerating it...while you dutifully sat there and listened (all the while not believing her story).

 

3) You let us all know that you think she's hot...sexy, etc. At the same time, you didn't tell us that you were carrying on an EA with someone you hired.

 

4) You pointed out that you've brought her flowers, a huge new ring and sexy lingerie and that, even though she has told you that those aren't the types of gifts she wants...you still continued (up till your last few posts) to gift her with those exact same things.

 

5) You've stated, many times, that she doesn't live in the "real" world and in doing so, dismissed her thoughts and feelings as those of someone who is irrational.

 

So what's the common thread that binds all these red flags? Simply that you aren't being honest...with yourself...with your wife, or with us (though we are merely incidental to the real issues here).

 

As much as you feel your wife may have OCPD, you also need to take a look in the honesty mirror and realize that you have a Passive/Aggressive personality.

 

If you truly want to create a successful relationship with your wife, and I truly believe that you do, you are going to need to assess your own part in it's current dysfunction, and then make some mighty big changes.

 

Why do I say that you're P/A? Cuz STB, you KNOW that she needs you to take responsibility for helping around your huge lovely home and you purposely don't take that responsibility...instead, you drag yourself out to do things only when you know she's ripsnorting mad or frustrated at you.

 

A PARTNER in an equal marriage wouldn't let it get to that point. A partner without the P/A personality would be proactive in asking for a list of chores and then following up on them immediately. And that's what you need to change about yourself in this relationship. You need to own your chit! You don't want to do the housework or repairs because you feel entitled to sit down and relax since you work hard all day and provide the lovely home. You don't want to do the housework because by doing it quickly and willingly, it will give her power...it might make her feel that she is "winning" "is the boss of you", etc. (you can fill in the blanks for whatever reasons fit you best, k?)

 

Ok, take it to the next step...let's say that you now realize that you need to step up to the plate and get the chores done, but, you honestly don't have the time or energy to do them all after a long day at work. For goodness sakes, you said you make $500k a year and have money for weekends in Vail, so hire a handyman and gardener to take the bulk of the big stuff off of BOTH of your shoulders. She can be their boss and make sure everything gets done to her satisfaction...wahoo..bonus for you!

 

And yes, there will be times when she's exhausted, cranky, etc and have a bad day. And on those days, she may very well come to you with an issue where she needs YOU to be strong and handle the situation for her. So don't use the excuse that "She won't let me take over...and she doesn't just tell me that she wants my help" to continue being passive/aggressive. ASK her if you can help her out by handling any issues she's too tired to deal with. And then FOLLOW through on them immediately! Oh and don't forget to tell her what the outcome was...lol

 

Peanut Butter Lids:

Ahhh....haven't we all been here before? Nope, it's not generally a big deal to leave a lid laying out on the counter. On the other hand, if it's HER job to clean up the kitchen and YOU are in there making yourself a sandwhich, then be polite and put away the food BEFORE you go back to the office. It only takes a few seconds to be neat and clean and it's just plain respectful of her as the housekeeper. On the other hand, if you just can't find the time to put it away properly, you should write a sticky note and leave it on the counter that says "Honey, will be back in a few to clean up my mess". It's all about respect for her and for her "real job"...which you seem to take for granted. Yep, I've seen you write that she does a lovely job and that you appreciate it, but honestly...that's only paying lip service and isn't sincere or heard by her....it's for our benefit, right?

Leaving a peanut butter jar sitting on the counter without the lid on may sound like a small thing, but it reinforces the fact that you are acting passive/aggressively with your wife. You knew it would upset her..but you did it because you don't hold the same values as she does and you aren't about to let her dictate to you. You were, in effect, passively letting her know that she ain't your boss and that her feelings aren't important to you.

 

Buying Gifts She Doesn't Want:

Yep, normal to be hurt when you bring home a gift and are told that it isn't wanted. Normal to bring it home a second time? Only if you're behaving in a P/A manner. Once the hurt is over, it's far better to simply ask your wife what kinds of gifts she likes and then to purchase those for her. Should she tell you that she doesn't know, or that you shouldn't have to ask, you then tell her that you need and want to know, because you bought the wrong thing and it didn't make her happy, as you had wanted it to. Letting her know that you care about what gives her pleasure is proactive. Sulking and continuing to purchase gifts she doesn't want is P/A. It's that same old "You're not the boss of me and you can't tell me what to do/buy for you" routine. It's not helpful, it's not effective and it doesn't do a thing to build a solid relationship. Even better than having to ask her what she wants? WATCH her to see what gives her pleasure and then center a gift around that! Just be prepared to still not have it be just right...don't give up...just keep watching, keep noting and keep gifting till you hit on the right thing. A very wise woman once told me (when I was whining that my husband hated my first Christmas gifts to him) that I was going about it ALL wrong. She said "Don't buy him what YOU want...watch what he buys you, then translate that into the male equivalent and buy THAT for him. It was sooo true! When I took a look at his purchases for me...a digital alarm clock, a radio, a new crockpot and a vacuum cleaner, I realized that he was a "tool and appliance" person. So the next year, I didn't bother to buy him books, socks, a cool sweater, etc. I bought a coffee warmer for his car, a new socket set, a personal tape player (This was back in the olden days before CD's) and the newest electric razor on the market. He was thrilled and spent the whole day telling me how fantastic I was. A marked change from his comments the year before.

 

Welp, I wish I could finish this now, but sadly, a client has called and needs my full attention... to be continued, but I hope I've given something to ponder till I get back =)

 

Leggy

[Soon_tobex]

Wow. And I thought I could write! I really appreciate the insights Leggy. Over the past 6 months I've swung from dumping a 20 year marriage to jumping off a bridge. On any given day either seems a reasonable fix!!

 

Where to begin....

 

I am somewhat P/A. I get that. I do. Let me add some color to your Flags that may change some from Red to Yellow or even Green. And then we can see where we go next?

 

Hiyas STB,

1) First post you said that she does EVERYTHING around the house, including the mowing. You then contradict that over and over again by saying that you pull more than your share around the house, compared to "most other guys".

 

Both statements are true - she takes care of a tremendous amount around the house. AND I do more than "most other guys". Understand this: pretty much the 'only' thing we do is home improvement so there's plenty of time to DO home improvement. This past weekend I constructed a lovely (her words) trellis to conceal the undercarriage of our back porch. We have an old house, so I did it in a style and fashion complementary to the house (ie I didn't slap some cheap Home Depot stuff up). She suggested ONCE that a trellis would be nice and I did it for her.

 

Just believe me: my buddies look at both her and me like we are NUTS. Sawdust and I are intimate friends.

 

Suggested New Flag color: GREEN

 

2) You stated several times that she tells you that you are too weak and won't stand up for her. Then you proceed to ignore that statement and assume that she is simply being mean in belittling you in this way...while citing a story of her close call with a bad driver and sloughing her off as exagerating it...while you dutifully sat there and listened (all the while not believing her story).

 

Ok, I'll give you this one to a degree. Sometimes she's waaaaaay off the mark (and embarrassingly so. Citation: Screaming at the electrician because she didn't think he was working fast enough.

 

Suggest New Flag color: amber

 

3) You let us all know that you think she's hot...sexy, etc. At the same time, you didn't tell us that you were carrying on an EA with someone you hired.

 

I reserve the right to remain silent.

 

Wait. I have something to say! On average, over the last 15 years, we've been intimate about 3 times a year. 3 times. She's never, ever initiated intimacy. Ever. I've been shot down hundreds of times for those 45 times. Hundreds. She has said that she "never will initiate intimacy. Ever." We haven't danced in over a decade. Hasn't kissed me on the lips in longer.

 

I'm not abnormal for wanting this stuff. Doesn't excuse the EA. But more than anything else, I miss a warm kiss and a close whisper.

 

Still: Red.

 

4) You pointed out that you've brought her flowers, a huge new ring and sexy lingerie and that, even though she has told you that those aren't the types of gifts she wants...you still continued (up till your last few posts) to gift her with those exact same things.

 

Fine. The only thing I can figure out that she likes is gardening. I'll buy her a wheelbarrow. * * *?

 

I've been married 20 years are you telling me I should just completely forget about ever seeing her in something sexy? Chit. That's why number 3 above happened.

 

Isn't there a little freakin middle ground here? How about I buy her a wheelbarrow and SHE once (JUST ONCE) wears something sexy to bed?! I thought marriage was a partnership? I thought it meant doing for each other? What precisely does she do for ME? Answer that, please.

 

Yellow

 

5) You've stated, many times, that she doesn't live in the "real" world and in doing so, dismissed her thoughts and feelings as those of someone who is irrational.

 

Maybe she is? She is unbelievably focused on 'the rules'. ANYBODY who doesn't follow the rules is WRONG. Citation: I just got a new car. In our state you need front and rear license plates. This car didn't have the front bracket. On FRIDAY, I got the plates and installed the rear plate (the front bracket is on order). She screamed at me (f-bombs flying) cause I should have thought ahead and ordered the bracket beforehand. My view: sorry, I didn't think ahead. I've got 1,500 employees and 3 great kids and I spent the weekend building YOUR lattice. I didn't get to it. I KNOW it's the law but the likelihood of me getting a ticket is remote and maybe she has nothing better to think about but I freakin do.

 

Sorry.

 

Blue (that's yellow and green).

 

Why do I say that you're P/A? Cuz STB, you KNOW that she needs you to take responsibility for helping around your huge lovely home and you purposely don't take that responsibility...instead, you drag yourself out to do things only when you know she's ripsnorting mad or frustrated at you.

 

Don't buy this much. Sorry. I've asked before for "the list". Told her I'm a list-kinda-guy. Heck I make lists of lists. Her response: if you really cared you would just KNOW what needs to be done.

 

Thanks honey.

 

And it seems to be always and only about work around the house. SHE LIKES TO WORK around the house. That's cool. I do NOT "always" wait until she's ripsnorting mad. Sometimes I do cause sometimes I don't want to DO this anymore. When does she do for me?

 

Yardwork - it's kinda all she does - and i'm not being mean, just factual. She doesn't want me to hire someone cause it's what SHE does. It's what gives her purpose and she enjoys it.

 

In a heartbeat I'd hire someone if she wanted to 'do something else'.

 

In my fantasies, she lets me hire a gardener (for one week) and she enjoys a day at a spa. She has never (and will never) enjoy a day at a spa. She doesn't find that enjoyable. And yes I cannot understand her. I do want a woman who will come home with her nails done and rested (occasionally). She has never ever done this and never ever will.

 

It is her CHOICE to bust her butt and to vacuum up the table crumbs before they hit the floor. Her CHOICE. She could choose to do other things. She could choose to have friends, to go to school, to do charity work, to get a job, to whatever. She chooses this. Fine.

 

Does that mean that i must also ALWAYS choose it? I want to take her away for a romantic weekend. After 20 years of me busting my butt making a living AND doing a whoooole bunch of stuff to support her choice, don't you think, by now, I've earned something in return? Like: "Sure, take me to NYC for a play"? But she doesn't LIKE that. Well I don't LIKE doing yardwork all the time, but I do it. When does she say: "I don't like a play, but I'll do it for and with you cause I love you"?

 

Soon

[Soon_tobex]

Just started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy". Interesting book. Very interesting. I see a lot of me there and I hate what I see.

 

Just had a sad, tearful, angry fight with the Mrs. We spent the whole day together. A lovely day, fine weather, working together, puttering around the yard. Did a whole bunch of stuff she wanted and a few things she didn't even know I'd noticed. Brought home some pizza (a fav of hers).

 

Overall nice day with the kids, etc in these the waning days of summer. After dinner, I invited her for a walk. She said yes and invited all the kids (fine, although I was kinda hoping for just the two of us).

 

Twisted story made short - she got so mad at me that she turned around and went home. The kids just stood and watched as she walked away from us and couldn't believe that she acted the way she did.

 

We continued on our walk but there was a pall cast over the stroll (even though the kids periodically made statements that she so over reacts and can't believe she did that)...

 

I get home and normally I'd try to "fix it". Screw it. I came in and told her I thought her actions were way out of line. Which led to a fight. And her crying. And her saying that she can't do this anymore. We have to do something before the Holidays (ie get divorced) Etc, etc.

 

I got a little too needy at that point (reference the No More Nice Guy book) but quit before my typical effort to try to wrap it all up with a bow before we end the conversation.

 

The more I write and read here on ENA (and other places), the more I see both sides of our relationship. The mere FACT that I'm writing here is a bit of a catch 22.

 

I am somewhat Passive Aggressive AND she's something (not sure what, but it may not matter). I can only work on me. I've been missing something very important for a LONG time in my marriage. A very long time - in fact: it may never have been there. And, to some degree (large or small, I don't know), my PA has exacerbated 'our' problem. I want to be loved overtly and she doesn't. I don't know if I caused her to view me the way she does OR if she has always viewed me this way OR if she knows no other view.

 

Doesn't really matter. I can only work on me. In the last few months, several people have said, in dramatically different situations: "You are a nice guy". Which kinda got me thinking about nice guys finishing last, etc. Even my mother said that I should look hard at how I try to meet my own needs and desires. She felt I was not being successful getting what I wanted in my personal life and that I should look hard at why that was.

 

45 years old, and mom is still learnin me.

 

Being nice all the time is deadly to a relationship.

[Hope75]

Hi Soon to be,

 

So here you are, 16 pages and 8 months after you first starting posting, and nothing has changed.

 

Why?

 

Because you have stayed in a marriage that has died, long ago. Nothing is going to change unless you leave.

 

But I don't think you will.

[lucyintheskywithdiamonds]

and it can be hard, but it is the truth - It does not seem to me that she has ever been in love with you. No sex? No kissing? No hugging??? Man - only one who does not love do that!

 

I hope you happiness - and strengh.

[Soon_tobex]

I went to a counselor today. Alone. And in secret. I had previously mentioned to my wife that I was thinking about going and she really squatted all over the idea.

 

So I went in secret and I'm glad I did.

 

60 minutes and a LOT of stuff came pouring out of me. And when I was done, the counselor said: "You want to live. And laugh. And Love. You are a tall, attractive, successful guy who SHOULD live, laugh, and love. You are reaching a point in your life where you can begin to reap the fruit of your labors. It should be fun and easy and fulfilling. But not all spouses want the same things. And not all people can maneuver through life with the requisite skills to be happy and joyous. Some people recognize their deficiencies and fix them; some people try to fix them and fail. And some people never recognize their deficiencies."

 

She said: "What do you get from your wife?"

 

I answered: "I don't know."

 

She: "Does she love you?"

 

I: "I don't know."

 

She: "Did she ever love you?"

 

I: "Honestly, I don't know."

 

She: "That's a fair answer. Do you love her?"

 

I: "Yes. But for many years I feel as though I've been aiming my love at her but it's as though she is an open window through which the light of my love dissipates out in the dark night. I want her window to be a mirror to reflect my love. To magnify it. To make it even brighter."

 

I thought that was pretty eloquent. The counselor seemed to think so too because she reached for a tissue to dab at her eyes and then she said: "You know this probably can't be fixed? It COULD be fixed but it would require tremendous effort, honesty, and objectivity from both of you."

 

I: "But I'm no angel. I'm broken and I'm to blame for some of the damage."

 

She: "But you are here fixing the damage."

 

85 bucks to hear what I knew already. 85 bucks to hear again what many of you have already said. To hear what another counselor told me about 8 years ago. Best c-note I ever broke.

 

On the way home I spoke with my brother. I'm sure he's really tired of me bawling on the phone. He knows much of the story but I filled him in on some of the more private details to which he said: "If any person ever said and did some of that stuff, I'd have left on the spot."

 

I: "I know you would have. And I probably should have. But we've got 3 kids and 20 years."

 

He: "All the more reason for her not to say and do those things."

 

Huh. I'd never considered THAT perspective.

 

And then he had my roaring in laughter. He suggested that should I ever actually break free I'd should be required to wear a "Warning" sign around my neck. Heaven help the woman who may choose to date me. She'd better hold on tight for the ride of her life.

 

When I got home, a comfy "normal" family meal was preceded and succeeded by some subtle and hurtful comments from the wife. Example: I've not been feeling well the last 36 hours or so and my wife actually blames ME for getting sick. I overheard my son say: "Hey mom, isn't it odd that all the men in the family aren't feeling well."

 

She: "YOU have allergies. Your brother has a sinus infection. He (meaning me) just has germs."

 

True my oldest isn't sick per se, he does have certain allergies. But how does she know that my other son has a 'sinus infection' when he has the exact same symptoms as I do? When I came in the door she made a comment: "He (meaning me) needs to stay far away."

 

Not: Hey honey, how are you feeling? Not: Take 2 aspirin and go to bed.

 

Later in the evening, everyone was wrapping up homework and my middle son, who is a huge procrastinator, was lagging. Both the wife and I were trying to help him finish his essay. It was late. We were all tired. And I offered a suggestion and she said: "Look. There are too many cooks in the kitchen. Why don't you go upstairs." I felt like saying: "screwyou"

[Up and Down]

Soon tobex,

 

I have been reading your story and with my recent break up with my ex only two years has given me insight of what my married life would be like. I am no saint mind you but I try to fix some of my faults, however some of the traits your wife has, no patience, always right, biting peoples heads, quick to be angry off are all too familiar. The flip side to that is she is the sweetest, most generous girl I have ever dated. Its quite bizarre at times. Sometimes I feel like I catch the brunt of her anger, maybe she uses all her patience up on everyone else who knows. I am a laid back person and try to go with the flow. So while she likes having a good time, she can be a royal pain if its not what she wants when she wants it. I too have heard the "well you should know what I want", rather than her tell me. She has said many times that I say what I mean, only later to change her mind.

 

In any case your post made me wonder if the sweetness and generosity fade with time when someone can be so angry.

 

I am sorry you are going through this, it seems like you really are a good guy trying to fix whats not right, but as its been said it takes two. One person alone cannot fix a relationship.

 

Maybe reading your posts has saved me from lots of pain down the road. Its only recently that I am truley exploring a lot of me exe's bad behaviours, this has just been quite eye opening. I think she was caught up in the fantasy of a relationship and marriage versus the reality. Oh well, its out of my hands now.

[Hope75]

STB,

 

I really have nothing further to add.

 

You have all the information that you need.

 

Now it's what you choose to do with it, since what you have been doing is getting you nowhere.

 

Einstein's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[Soon_tobex]

Up and Down: Someone recently told me that the old adage "Winners never quit and Quitters never win" is wrong. Just plain wrong.

 

Winners DO quit. They KNOW when a situation is not winnable and they quit. The reason they ARE winners is because they can see that they are failing and will fail at a particular game. They thereforeeee quit, save their energy, muster their resources, avoid unnecessary injury and enter the next game.

 

Some people (yours truly???) don't recognize that they are in an unwinnable situation and they keep throwing more and more troops into battle.

 

Good for you for recognizing the battle couldn't be won. You quit and you won.

 

Hope: I know. I know! I'm getting there. 2 days ago I was ready to pack my bags. Today she was nice as pie and I immediately wonder "has she changed??"

 

Of course not, you idiot. Head smack.

[John Bendix]

It seems that winning in this circumstance is a goal that seems not to be easily obtainable. If what you are trying to accomplish is "winning" your wife behave in more acceptable way, then there is no chance of winning. We cannot expect people to live up to our expectations or even change to meet them.

 

Your wife seems very unhappy and maybe the marriage has not lived up to her expectations. She seems to be one who has closed down, put up a huge emotional wall, and directed her anger towards the person she sees as responsible for her unhappiness, you. Which is often the case even if it is unfair. She may have a great deal of pain inside of her which is coming forth in emotions such as anger, hostility, resentment, and so on. She has given up trying to have the marriage the way she believes that she deserves it. When this is the case, blame and complain are usually the duo that present themselves.

 

Has your wife had a history or family history of depression? Is she going through perimenopause (which can last for years)? This is not the say that these are the reason for her discontent and the blame can be put there. They are many possibilities. If you bring this up to her, you better stand back for the response. She will vehenemtly deny anything like this and chastise you for looking for excuses for why you are so hard to live with. Check out Ann Rice's website, depressionfallout for her unofficial signs of depression.

 

If you want to see the worst case scenario of this dynamic, look to my story!

[shockeddad]

hey. Soon to be??? How is it that you are married to my wife?

 

Thats just so odd to see someone write down a description of my wife without knowing her. Doesn't hug, wont kiss, no communication (its like the silent treatment only not on purpose). She is so matter of fact and straight about everything its like she is trying to stab you with it to inflict pain.

 

I call it our 2 realities.

 

I had more but it seems I am hijacking and do not want that

 

shocked

[Soon_tobex]

I've been reading a pretty good book: "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work", by Gottman. One quote really hit close to home: "Fondness and admiration are two of the most crucial elements in a rewarding and long-lasting romance. Although happily married couples may feel driven to distraction at times by their partner's personality flaws, they still feel that the person they married is worthy of honor and respect. When this sense is completely missing from a marriage, the relationship cannot be revived."

[Soon_tobex]

Today's been a roller coast day. I'll spare the details and boil it down to what I think is the essense:

 

1. She doesn't love me romantically (I heard the collective "DUH" from you people!!!). Never has. Never will.
   
2. She actually does care for me in her own wacky way. I'm not a complete idiot. There have been lots of good times we've shared.
   
3. She blames me for everything because she won't (can't?) admit that she unfairly married me to begin with. Follow this logic:
   
   • She herself says she has NEVER lied; she's a 100% HONEST person. Ok, let's accept that at face value.
     
   • She has also clearly said that she's NEVER loved me.
     
   • Now, I think most people would agree it's NOT HONEST to marry someone you don't love.
     
   • She knows deep down that it was false for her to marry me but she married me nonetheless. But wait, her world is built around being right and honest.
     
   • So she won't/can't admit that she contributed to our situation and pushes the blame elsewhere - on me.
      
     

 

She's collected all my indiscretions over the past 20 years, which to a woman who LOVED her husband, wouldn't amount to ANYTHING, and points to them as reasons for our situation.

 

Oddly on the night before our wedding we had a HUGE blowout which I never understood. Until just now. Maybe it was her crazy way of trying to back out of something she knew was unfair. Why then did she marry me? Well that piece to the puzzle had actually been turned over many years ago - I just didn't know where it fit. Until just now. She once told me that her mother thought that I'd "make something of myself, someday." i.e. I'd be relatively successful.

 

Wifey desperately wanted OUT of a very unhappy parental home and she wanted to be a mother. And maybe she thought she'd grow to love me. Or maybe she never took her thoughts that far. At any rate, I was the best of the lot.

 

 

[*]She's scared to death of what her life will be without my income although she'd NEVER admit that.

[*]She'd like to hang on somehow someway until the kids are gone at which time she'll feel less responsible for them

 

All of this doesn't really explain her "get out" last winter. My guess: she's unhappy (again with the "Duhhs"??) and feels somewhat powerless. And I'm sure I have a quirk or two.

 

But mostly she's afraid. Anger and Fear are opposite sides of the same coin. She expresses Fear through Anger. She's afraid of what will happen to her. She has no friends, no family with whom she associates. She'll have her kids forever but they will soon have their own lives to lead.

 

Me? I'm not worried about me. I'll never be lonely even if I am alone.

 

None of this is an answer. But at least I understand the question finally.

[radioheader]

She's scared to death of what her life will be without my income although she'd NEVER admit that.

 

STBEx - since you all have been married for 19+ years and if she has been a stay at home mom, she'd most likely get permanent alimony from you...so if you make a good living, i'm sure she will be comfortable for the rest of her life.. if she doesn't remarry, you'll be supporting her in some way from here on out anyway...at least that is what i understood from my attny.

 

how are you doing? if all these things are true in your last post, why really hang on? go live your life the way you want...but then again maybe this is what you really want...some get caught up in the drama and really get used to it as a way of life...wishing you peace!