Do you want to die?

[Daddy Bear]

i'm glad to see that this thread is moving in a positive and constructive direction.

 

i created it for those who, secretly or overtly, wish for the silence of nonexistence; for whom the good things in life have lost their luster. i created it for people who have heard all the old "temporary problem/permanent solution" adages to no effect and who need a different perspective in order to be jolted into realizing that their current problems are not an impenetrable wall between themselves and happiness. it is for the ones who cannot see the forest for the trees.

 

it is for people like me.

[itsallgrand]

Benty and others who read this,

 

There have been times I have been ashamed. Sometimes it is good honest shame to let me know 'listen girly, you are overreacting to a small problem'.

Sometimes shame is wholesome. It lets us go deeper.

 

Truly and honestly from my heart, it is those people who have experienced beyond my comprehension into the depths of suffering - and remained human - who are my inspiration to keep going.

They have, whether by choice or not, added such a huge amount to the collective knowledge of humanity, to our collective wisdom.

 

Nothing NOTHING makes me feel better to be alive than to be able to see even a smile, lessen and brighten a life that has seen so much hardship.

Y'all can disagree with me...but a hardened face who knows, smiles...means much more to me even than that beautiful innocent smile of a child. It has understanding. It is perfection on earth.

 

It's why I do what I do, it is what has kept me alive. The desire to die has been in me. All I can say is, thank you Big Sky that I haven't done it.

I'd miss out on a lot.

 

And why would I want to die? Feeling de-humanized, and not seeing a way up.

Can't think of much else as important to people as being able to stand and say "I am a human being! Not an animal." And to be able to LIVE as a human being.

 

I think, those people are a huge source of strength. They are our global village elders. That's my thoughts on it. They have a lot to teach, a lot to give.

 

The real shame is if we don't listen, if we continue with the same suffering over and over.

 

Hehe, I'm gonna cry now. But I'd like to share a tiny story. My week felt tough for me, grinding into a sort of purposelessness and meaninglessness. You know where you feel all your efforts and work is falling into a hole of nothingness, yet you keep on.

And then I got a joke, and a "you're a good girl. What you do matters, more than you think. Thanks for helping to make my day easier." from a man who....geez, it nuts....he works and works at 65 to take care of his extended family who are all living in a apartment, poor, drug problems kids who run around without diapers some days, it's not nice....he devotes his life to trying to raise up his family....

 

it meant a lot to me to get a compliment like that from someone who can appreciate all the little things done, that are so often not noticed or given thought to in this world - because so many expect it and will go out of their way to scorn you if you do not 'slave' for them in every possible way. It is a service, a gift, and how much goes unoticed!

 

That's the stuff that keeps me going. Maybe the majority will reject you and your gifts, but somewhere there is someone who needs what you have to give, and who will be blessed by it or made just a little bit easier to find joy in the world by you. So life isn't meaningless.

 

Sorry for the extended version of this post, hope you can understand my need to get all that out. And thanks for this thread today, Benty.

[Juliana]

"So, Juliana, if I am not prying too much, what did you do to never feel that bad again?"

 

I've made three serious attempts, spaced over several years. I regret each of them. But I can talk about what I learned from them, in particular the first one.

 

The first time I tried to kill myself, I was a "suicide virgin." This was not premeditated in any real sense; I did it with the same amount of emotion I would give to brushing my hair or changing my socks.

 

In that frame of mind, in which you know what you're going to do, but you don't know, simultaneously, I don't think anything could help, short of physical intervention. I certainly didn't warn anyone. It was only after I woke up the next day that I thought, I had given everything; now I could start to be a little selfish.

 

I changed my life. I looked around me, and saw the ways in which people were taking their selfishness out on me, and I stopped taking responsibility for it. I looked at the social groups that had sneered at me and excluded me and saw them as weak and frightened. I started going where I wanted, doing what I wanted, and I stopped apologizing for breathing.

 

I was 15 years old the first time. What could anyone have done, at 15, to deserve to feel that badly? But guilt and shame were what killed me, and it's guilt and shame that are still dangerous for me. It may be something different for other people.

 

Now I find anytime I feel "the common bonds of humanity" makes a difference. Alot of social interaction doesn't provide that; it doesn't, for some reason, break through the endless sing-song repetition of private miseries and despair. But sometimes, something happens, and for a moment, we do feel a common, human love for another person. A recognition that they have suffered undeservedly, as we all do, and that their suffering is somehow mine, as mine is theirs. Pain is pain. But human beings are unique; it is in the recognition and valuing of that uniqueness that I have most often found healing.

 

Some days are better than others. Sometimes, the worst circumstances can combine to throw me closer to those despairing feelings, so I make a conscious, daily effort to choose to do creative, kind things, rather than give up and sink. It takes that much, for me. But after awhile, the good memories acquire a momentum, and it becomes easier to move forward as I am.

[englishwoman41]

Yes they do watch us and they think that we should Live life because we are able to do what they were so denied to do.

They want us to live in their memory, as people who are alive and who can live.

They dont want us to feel down just because we "feel pain on their behalf"

They want us to live on and they also know how you and many others feel about all the horrible and wicked things in the past so that we should all remind others that life is not as it appears but that we should tell others that if it was not for the past then we should not be alive right now.

Im not religious but have i feeling that the world is not quite right at the moment.

[blueangel]

I think what was meant to be conveyed here is how many feel pain or want to end their lives over the insignificant details of the day, of who they are... whereas, because there were so many who died but wanted to live, life should not be taken for granted in comparison of your life because you have so much more than they did, back then.

 

It's a great lesson.

 

It's not so much that we're being watched or even by who. The key is to be thankful for what you have because so many lost so much and would have easily traded their life for yours. So in respect to them, live fully and love and laugh. Don't give up what others would have fought for... and what others HAVE.

[Serpent Queen]

I am the only person really alive.

Prove to me your consciousness.

ha ha ha ha

[blueangel]

I am the only person really alive.

Prove to me your consciousness.

ha ha ha ha

 

What if I am also you?

There- that's proof.

[debidear]

Thank you so much for this post, for today at least I will remember how good I have it and not try and hurt myself because of my own issues but remember that MANY people have or had it worse than me.

[Lady Luck]

uhh.. first off.. you have no proof that these people are watching over us. and i'm sure if they were/are, they probably understand that complaining about your life is just human nature.

[Daddy Bear]

uhh.. first off.. you have no proof that these people are watching over us.

 

i'm sure everyone who reads the OP knows that there is no proof for or against it. the only evidence one way or the other, it seems, is the fact that many people say they feel the presense of departed loved ones in their hearts. and who really knows what happens when we die? my intent was merely to give suicidal people a little quick perspective on the reasons for wanting to commit lethal violence to themselves, in the hopes that one or two who find this thread decide to change their minds about that.

 

i'm sure if they were/are, they probably understand that complaining about your life is just human nature.

 

i agree, and i hope you're right, because i complain fairly often about mine. i'm just not going to let it kill me.

[blueangel]

i'm just not going to let it kill me.

 

What justifies crossing the line into purposed death? Is there ever a good enough justification? I think not.

 

One common thing I hear is that people feel basically ALONE within their struggles and UNABLE to guide themselves this way. What do you live for when you are at this point? That is the question. The answer goes beyond the fact that others have suffered worse and would have wanted TO be in your place (thereforeeee do not take for granted what you HAVE). It falls into the category of, "Are there deeper reasons to live that I cannot find?"

 

(Yes.)

[mylastwords23]

They watch us, you know.

 

Those who had no choice--the victims of the Holocaust, of the slavers, of the Inquisition, of disease, famine, fire, flood and of every unspeakable torture, injustice and horror devised by man or nature--they watch us driving around in our shiny cars wearing our nice new clothes and talking on our cellphones, eating our Oreos, corn dogs and croissants, watching "Deal Or No Deal" on our color TVs and resting our unbroken bodies in soft, warm beds every night.

 

 

I believe all those people died in wars so that we could eat our corn dogs - or what I like to call 'freedom dogs.' For dessert, I like to dip my 'freedom' cookies in my 'freedom' milk. ummmm democracy tastes good.

 

Oh and, to clarify, the memory foam on my mattress gets a little chilly in the winter time, and isn't it so annoying when you forget to put on the sleep timer on the lcd tv and its glow keeps you awake?

 

My 2000 mercury mystique used to be shiny but the paint is starting to chip on the bumper because some idiot tried to peal off bumper stickers with a screwdriver? Can you you believe that? I believe people died in some wars so we could buy and use goo gone...with liberty and justice for all.

 

God Bless America

[melrich]

Perspective.

 

I am not sure it is always wise or right to remind the man who just lost his leg how lucky he is that he's not the guy who just lost his head.

 

Talking down someone's issues often has the opposite effect we intended. Often the message you give is "I don't understand."

 

Sometimes to be reminded there is (or was) always someone who is worse off than you is of comfort and sometimes it is not.

[blueangel]

Then, for those it is a comfort to, it has not been said in vain.

[jessicake]

Perspective.

 

I am not sure it is always wise or right to remind the man who just lost his leg how lucky he is that he's not the guy who just lost his head.

 

Talking down someone's issues often has the opposite effect we intended. Often the message you give is "I don't understand."

 

Sometimes to be reminded there is (or was) always someone who is worse off than you is of comfort and sometimes it is not.

 

I agree. perhaps the guy who lost his leg is a marathon runner, or is a passionate bike rider whose life goal is to be a champion biker/runner... i feel that if he has just los his leg, he would lose all hope in life! yes it is definitely important for him to see that there is other beautiful things in life... but by saying at least he did not lose his head, he might just think, 'well, perhaps i will go chop it off now, no one understands the pain i am going through!' or 'i would have rather lose my head than never be able to run again'.

 

belittling someone elses feelings is, i believe not the way to go. yes, there will of course always be people worst off, but individuals have different capacities and tolerance to handle different situations. it is not a comfort to know that there are so many people suffering in this world! i would not feel right feeling good in knowing there are others worst off than me!

 

that being said, it is important for us to appreciate what we have and be happy for it and hopefully be able to share this happiness with others. (easier said than done!)

[Daddy Bear]

some people in the grip of emotional crisis need to hear "everything's going to be just fine". others have little faith in such chattery platitudes, and "put your breakup in perspective and shrug it off" can resonate more deeply in these folks. i have a hard time visualizing any scenario in which the latter could do actual harm. despite all of the second-guessing i've seen, i have zero regrets about posting this thread where those who are ensnared in self-destructive thinking patterns will read it and maybe re-assess the true weight of what they're carrying.

 

the real underlying question that my OP posits is this: "life is priceless, and people have endured worse than we can imagine without losing the will to live--are you not possibly overreacting by wanting to kill yourself?"

[melrich]

i have a hard time visualizing any scenario in which the latter could do actual harm.

 

Putting things into perspective is a tried and true method of persuasion. I don't see it actually doing any harm per se.

 

But I do think that in a situation where someone, in their own mind is desperate and even on the edge of taking their own life, the "when you think about it, you are not that badly off" approach may backfire. Not in the sense that it will put them over the edge but in the sense that they may shut down to your counsel.

 

Because desperate people in my experience tend to regard any advice that things are not as bad as they seem as coming from someone who just doesn't understand their circumstances.

[TheRedQueen]

Where are these supposed people? And from what perch are they watching us from? Do they watch us while we have sex, or worse, while we're using the bathroom?

[mylastwords23]

I agree with the moderator guy. If you tell someone that they aren't as worse off as every fiber in their being is telling them, sometimes they might do something just to prove you wrong or prove to themselves that some stranger doesn't understand my life, my existence more than I do - the one who's living it. If people belittle what you're saying, it feels like they aren't taken you seriously and for some people, not being taken seriously is one of the problems that has gotten them to where they are right now. In that sense, convincing them that they are wrong, may actually be convincing them that they are right about themselves.

 

However, sometimes there is nothing you can say that will change things.

[Dako]

I don't think Bently would take this tack with a suicidal person, and neither would I. They (we?) need to be heard.

[DN]

I would imagine that for someone to genuinely contemplate suicide they would have to be desperate enough, or hopeless enough, to believe that those who are already dead are fortunate by comparison to their own situation - no matter how they died.

[doyathink]

When looking through the shattered eyes and tear stained face of a child holding a razor blade to her wrists because of years and years of torture inflicted on her tiny body by her father's drunken 'episodes'...and telling her....'life isnt as bad as you think it is'........she returns with a reply of ' really,....I've never known anything but hell in my mind?

 

I think some ppl have good reason to want to end the misery....becasue death ends their hell once and for all. No one can hurt them anymore.

[Daddy Bear]

I would imagine that for someone to genuinely contemplate suicide they would have to be desperate enough, or hopeless enough, to believe that those who are already dead are fortunate by comparison to their own situation - no matter how they died.

 

i know this to be true, and it is a compelling reason to introduce a counterpoint. ANY comment made, including "tomorrow will be better", could send someone who is thinking irrationally over the edge. it is a calculated risk with actual human lives at stake, and i do not undertake to advise these sufferers without serious contemplation aforethought.

 

I don't think Bently would take this tack with a suicidal person, and neither would I. They (we?) need to be heard.

 

thank you, Dako! you know that any person on the edge and looking for an interested, sympathetic ear will find one in me. this thread is merely a point to ponder, not a callous "Get over it" in response to a desperate cry for help.

 

Where are these supposed people? And from what perch are they watching us from? Do they watch us while we have sex, or worse, while we're using the bathroom?

 

they're invisible nanobot fairies with tri-ocular infrared vision. they have their own teeny, tiny Internet where they post pictures of us squatting on our toilets.

[blueangel]

Now, that I'd like to see!

[mylastwords23]

I would imagine that for someone to genuinely contemplate suicide they would have to be desperate enough, or hopeless enough, to believe that those who are already dead are fortunate by comparison to their own situation - no matter how they died.

 

I don't believe anyone is fortunate to be dead. It isn't about envying the dead, but rather envying the living. If you think about dying it's not because you want to be dead, but rather because you feel dead already. If life only means pain and suffering - death feels like a step up. I consider death to be a tragedy because most of those who have died had something to lose, had earned a place in this world, and the world will miss them after they're gone. The natural instinct for most is to be afraid and to fight for life. Choosing to end one's life is not really an entirely conscious decision because it comes about when that instinct for life, that yearning turns in on itself and instead becomes an instinct for death and a fear of feeling alive. You find yourself saying it and thinking it all the time - not because you choose to, but because it's part of you now. When the world is cold, apathetic, when the light from the sky seems to just hit the ground below you like you aren't even there, you don't want to see another day that you aren't a part of anymore. When the people around me are stressed out, they think about the summer, vacations, and good times. I think about how when the day's job is done again, I will be just sitting there alone again, without anything to steal away my attention from all that I have lost and have never had. They seek out and hold onto the good times, I seek out unconsciousness and sleep - because my whole waking life is what I need a break from, I don't seek to escape the hard work, but I seek to escape myself, being me, being awake. I want that escape to last as long as it can, and maybe it will last forever if I keep pushing myself further and further to escape. I am tired of fighting to breathe, fighting to feel something.

 

Sleeping, dreaming - they're the only things that I seem to know how to do as well as everyone else. When they're over, I am back to being not good enough, to being a ghost walking the street among the living, and hoping that something outside of my control will just take me down quickly, so I don't see it coming. It's like that moment right before you fall asleep, you don't see it coming - you just go, and it takes you away from the pain. When the day comes back, I pick up my glasses off the floor, smudged with stains from tears I can't remember, and wash them off. The pattern is the same everyday, and it ends the same everyday.

 

Is it even possible to end a life that never really began? How can you throw away something precious that you don't actually have? How can anyone miss a person they never saw, or if did, hoped not to see again?