My break-up story.. Am I wrong??

[Riggz41510]

"Well then can we get married.. Where are you located??"

 

D*mn, baby, I'm already married!

 

Seriously, good luck.

 

Darnit!!

 

Thank you

[ImThatGirl]

Why does signing a piece of paper feel like the kiss of death?

 

Why do you have to be realistic / pessimistic and indicate that the future will hold a split up whether we marry or not?

 

Why can't you give me your heart if you truly love me?

 

Why don't you care to give me what I deserve rather than making me settle for playing house?

 

Sense to you?

 

It just makes it real. We all know that marriage can end up in divorce. We can read the statistics and the statistics show the odds are against a lifetime marriage.

 

I have had a hard time even believing in someone as far as having a serious relationship. I work with my insecurities. And I don't have too many insecurities.

 

Marriage will be the icing on the cake for me. And oh how hot it will seem to say I'm Mrs. xxxxxx or "his wife."

[ImThatGirl]

Thats a cold hustle.. LOL.. T he suggestion of a prenup is a red flag that the husband is keeping his options open and knows he may get divorced. In turn, put yourself out there to prove that you will love her forever and have no plan to leave her.

 

Wow so if things don't work out later on.. He should be scared to leave, because he doesn't want to be financially murdered?

 

I'm just explaining how I'd feel about it. I'd SIGN a prenup. But it would take lots of sweet words and promises from my potential husband. If I believed in him and thought this was just a small worry/insecurity for him, I'd sign it.

[moonbeam111]

Let me tell you why women want to have security in their relationships. They enter marriage and bear children, raise children, and they get older. While getting older for men may add some spice and "dignity" to their looks, for women growing older often means becoming invisible and less desirable.

 

It's difficult for them to find a partner after they get divorced. And sometimes divorce happens because their husbands go after younger women. So just telling her "thank you for a ride, you've been a good mother to my children and made good lasanga" it's not enough.

 

I agree with signing a prenup. It's not about divorcing only. A prenup has to outline three areas: managing finances during marriage, managing finances in case of divorce, and managing finances in case of a death of a spouse, esp. when there are children from previous marriages involved.

 

As long as you see her as an enemy to your finances and use words like "financial death", there is no way you can talk to her objectively and bring pros and cons about a prenup.

[gattsuga]

does your girlfriend work right now? are you two thinking of having children? are you two thinking of spending your whole life together, or just until the sparks die out?

 

marriage is a committment. it's not for everyone, that's for sure. some people cannot commit to one person their whole life. maybe your girl needs security. what is she going to do when she's 40, and you decide you don't love her anymore and end things. you take all your money/assets, and she's left with her own. but you've also taken away her youth, and it'll be much harder for her to find another man, than you finding another woman.

 

I think you're using the 60% divorce rate as just an excuse. are you saying your relationship is just like theirs? is your relationship just another statistic?

[Juliana]

Umm..just for the record, at 40 I am hot enough to locate another man, should I need to. I'm not saying it'll be Mel Gibson or anything, but I can get another man interested in me. Part of being married is a commitment to keep yourself at least moderately attractive -- upkeep and maintenance. And I don't need anyone to support me or look after me, because I kept up my job skills, even with the kids and the house taking up alot of time. I'm employable.

 

No, I got married because I wanted to. I wanted the white dress, and the flowers, and the cake, and all that jazz. I wanted it, and I had it. That was my one and only reason for doing it. But it was more than enough for me.

[TheRock]

I think Riggs makes some very valis points. he might not be saying things in the most romantic way, but they are still valis points. It is true that people should marry for love, but it also true that while people almost always start off that way, they usuallu divor e feeling a completely differnet way. it is easy to say that you would be willing to give uip everything for someone you loved while you are feeling infatuated. It would be quite harder to say something like that in an attorney's office with divorce papers in front of you. The statistics today are that 60% of couples divorce. Why is it wrong to want to keep realistic while also being in love.

Try not to mix up emotional feelings with logiical and practical steps to live one's life. It only makes sense in today's world.

 

Think of it this way too. If there were kids involved, wouldn't it be better for them in case of a divorve to have things already laid out versus an ugly drawn out divorce proceeding?

[moonbeam111]

Being a mom sometimes is a full time job. Because you don't get paid for it, it does not mean that you are not employed. Women are in a big disadvantage when their careers were interrupted for three- ten years while they were raising small children. At the same time, men's careers did not get interrupted because of children and they advanced themselves careerwise and financially.

 

There is a legal term in a divorce procedure - projected earnings - that a woman could have made if she was still single with no children.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

First off, you are approaching this discussion with her like a college debate rather than talking to someone whom you might love enough to spend your life (married or not) with... so i think either you don't love her enough to make any kind of commitment to her, or you just don't want to get married to anyone period because you value your financial status above all else.

 

you also sound like a person who does not value 'love' and emotional support and shared intimacy either, so in your case, you might not believe that marriage has lots to offer, whereas people who are interested in things other than money do...

 

I think you could reverse your argument and say, that if you *do* have a prenup, then there is no reason NOT to get married if it is really important to the one you love and or to your children. You have just chosen your position, and refuse to budge from it, and that is fine, as long as you find a woman who doesn't want marriage or expect to be financial partners with you.

 

The other bad sign here is you are planning your divorce before you even marry, which does not bode well for the strength of this particular relationship... i think that marriage and sharing your wealth with someone (and potentially giving up some of it in a divorce) is so repugnant to you, that this should be a no brainer in terms of making a decision. You don't want to get married, she does, she won't sign a prenup, you don't want to share your money, etc. etc., so just break it off and save everyone the debates.

[Scout]

So I suggested well lets sign a prenup, she says "real love shouldn't come with a contract". Well last I checked a marriage license is a form of a contract, isn't it?

 

LOL, I have to admit you make a hard-to-debate point there.

 

Hmmm...it seems to me you're not so much afraid of marriage, as you are of divorce. I think that's a worry more common than you might realize.

 

It's definitely a risk. Not just from a financial point of view, there's always a risk when you make a serious commitment with someone. I understand the logic of your arguments, by the way. The one equation you are leaving out is that the act/ceremony/contract aspect of marriage is a highly symbolic one, and humans really seem to like symbols. Thus, we celebrate milestones like birthdays, holidays, marriages, etc. In this case, your girl really wants a symbolic ceremony celebrating her union with you.

 

One thing to consider...I wonder if your girl isn't worried that you want a pre-nup because you have doubts the marriage would last. If so, it's kind of a Catch-22...you want a pre-nup because you are afraid of getting taken to the cleaners. She doesn't want a pre-nup because she's afraid you won't take the commitment seriously if you have one. You can't blame her if she feels this way, because you are the one who raised the issue of finances. You are definitely letting her know it's your main concern about getting married. She might feel that if you had a pre-nup in place, you'd bolt from the marriage as soon as things hit a rough patch, as most marriages inevitably do.

 

So, both of you seem to be hung up on the pre-nup. What if you two could come together on the terms of one? I'm not particularly in favor of pre-nups, simply because they are a "hedge" against fully committing...they're sort of a symbol themselves of a lack of trust. But, since you really are afraid of getting wiped out, this may be the only way your girl can get you to the alter.

[shikashika]

one thing a very wise friend said do me was "if you are considering getting a pre-nup, maybe you should reconsider getting married'

 

 

By having a prenup, its like saying all that is meaningfull or worthless is only described on financial terms.

 

i fully agree

 

When you marry someone you accept them for their money or lack of money, for their debts, their inheritances, their good things, their mistakes.

 

an example of my parents..

 

my dad made much more money than my mum.. They got married, soon after my mum had me and my brothers... my mum had a full time NON-PAID job caring for her children, her husband and our house.

 

so... if they had signed a prenup, gotten divorced my mother would have essentially contributed nothing to the relationship?!?!?! even though she put her heart, blood, sweat and tears into creating a warm, loving family environment in many prenup situations, she would have ended up with NOTHING

 

i would not marry a guy if he wanted to get a pre-nup

[bighair]

I'm a family lawyer and I used to practice divorce law for a long time.

 

So, it seems that you're afraid to get married because you're worried that you 'll be taken to the cleaners in the event of a divorce. Sure, sign a prenup if you want. that's legal.

 

But, let me tell you what I found troubling about your post. You don't seem to understand the purpose of alimony. WEll, I'll tell you why. It's only within the past 10 to 15 years that women make good money...sometimes more money then men. And, statistically, men still make more money than women. Look around....Corp America is very much a man's world.

 

Unfortunately, many women marry men for financial security...also many women stay married for that same security. Many women stay in abusive, nightmarish relationships because their partners make the money and control it and they are simply terrified to leave w. their kids...how will they support themselves.

 

Do you love your gf or do you look at her as someone with baggage who just needs you for your money? Or, do you look at her as a single parent who is trying to make it on a limited income. You make a ton of money and you don't have dependents. NOw, all you care about is guarding your riches because you don't want to be taken to the cleaners in the event of a divorce. Do you respect your gf? Or, do you determine someone's worth based on their net worth? YOu measure your success by your income; not by your contributions to your job, society, your famlily your friends. Really, your post is very sexist and I found it offensive.

 

Don't get me wrong. If a woman made the money during the marriage, and the man needs support...it works both ways...that's the thing about equality...what's good for the goose.

 

So, if you're going to have a serious discussion w. your GF on marriage, I hope you don't insult her very being by reminding her of her limited income and baggage. YOu're supposed to love her for who she is not her assets and liabilities.

[bighair]

Riggz - Money isn't everything. Those Enron guys....one dropped dead because of it and the other is going to jail for 24 years. YOu know...I'd be thrilled with your girl's 48K per year...I'm not going to Jail, I'm not ripping off pensions and I can sleep at night.

[moonbeam111]

It's a very decent salary for a single mom with two kids.

She is doing great and she is not a loser at all.

[Caterina]

You made the right decision. I don't think you should get married, either. Not because of financial issues but because you have deeper mental issues I think you really need to contend with before you involve yourself as a father figurehead for two children and a wife.

 

Side note: I had a boyfriend who told me that he didn't believe in marriage without a prenup. I wasn't as nice as your gf, the next day I dumped him and didn't explain why. In my opinion, if he's that into money, he's not even worth explaining things to.

[annie24]

I'm not particularly in favor of pre-nups, simply because they are a "hedge" against fully committing...they're sort of a symbol themselves of a lack of trust. But, since you really are afraid of getting wiped out, this may be the only way your girl can get you to the alter.

 

it is funny, i see prenups a bit differently. I was just talking to a lawyer friend today who was telling me about a couple that is getting divorce and after weeks and weeks of arguing amongst lawyers.... they finally decided who gets to keep the bed. eeesh!!!

 

I kind of see the prenup as saying, "honey - I will never be the person who will fight over the bed frame or the $8 plates. I want us to be always civil towards each other, even if we are divorcing."

[Grokker]

Finances were a huge reason why I broke up with the only woman that I really believe I had "true love" with.

 

She was perfect for me in every way, and when she told me that I was perfect for her too, I believed it. Our personalities couldn't have fit together better.

 

The finance thing was a problem from the beginning, though. I'm not exactly thrifty myself, I splurge and enjoy myself from time to time. She, however, spent money like it was going out of style... all the time.

 

What was worse, she couldn't handle criticism on that count, and every conversation we had about it led to an argument.

 

Now folks reading this might say that it wasn't "true love" or anything like it, in that case. But we did live together for six years, and make every effort to ignore that one issue, because everything else was so worth it.

 

In the end, though, while money may be considered "superficial" by so many of us when thinking in terms of "true love"... it's something that is quite impossible to ignore in terms of a relationship.

 

It's the reason I didn't end up marrying her, the reason she left, and no extent of emotional connection could have saved our marriage from that problem if we'd had one. Money is more important to a relationship than anyone wants to admit to themselves.

 

I think you did the right thing here... even if you had a special connection with her, if you foresaw serious problems on the emotional front, chances are they were coming.

[whoops]

I am with you - geta prenup and ensur that if your kids with her are protected and looked after that is it.

 

I was with my ex for 4 years we talked about marriage and i suggested a prenup he earns more then me but i am wealthier in the long run due to other assets - it would protect both of us - he said no he wouldnt do it -

 

At the end of the day finance is something all couples fight against - it should be prenuped - childern looked after - all this love me bo)))))) is not going to cut it when one argues and has affairs - use your head not your heart here -

[bighair]

Hey, I think prenups are fine...great in fact. My objecttion to the OP has a lot to do with how he views people with and without money. Money is important but I don't want it to define me.

[skyjuice]

Hi

 

I am agreeing with having pre-nups for every marriage. It is a protection for both the spouse. It is not about who makes the most money. It is about the welfare of the children and the spouse are well taken care of in event of divorce or death.

[Riggz41510]

it is funny, i see prenups a bit differently. I was just talking to a lawyer friend today who was telling me about a couple that is getting divorce and after weeks and weeks of arguing amongst lawyers.... they finally decided who gets to keep the bed. eeesh!!!

 

I kind of see the prenup as saying, "honey - I will never be the person who will fight over the bed frame or the $8 plates. I want us to be always civil towards each other, even if we are divorcing."

 

Yeah.. That's easy to say when your happy and every thing is going great.. But what about the horrible break-up?? Its no guarantee it will happen, but the prenup is like insurance.. "In case something happens

[Riggz41510]

It's a very decent salary for a single mom with two kids.

She is doing great and she is not a loser at all.

 

Who said she was a looser?? I never said that??

[Riggz41510]

I am with you - geta prenup and ensur that if your kids with her are protected and looked after that is it.

 

I was with my ex for 4 years we talked about marriage and i suggested a prenup he earns more then me but i am wealthier in the long run due to other assets - it would protect both of us - he said no he wouldnt do it -

 

At the end of the day finance is something all couples fight against - it should be prenuped - childern looked after - all this love me bo)))))) is not going to cut it when one argues and has affairs - use your head not your heart here -

 

Thank you!! I wonder if all these people who say Love is the end all tell all, if they were to get married lose it all in a divorce would they still do it again the same way?? Why not be proactive in the situation??

[Riggz41510]

Hey, I think prenups are fine...great in fact. My objecttion to the OP has a lot to do with how he views people with and without money. Money is important but I don't want it to define me.

 

Where did I say anything about my views on people with money versus people who don't?

[Batya33]

I apologize for just skimming the thread and perhaps this was answered. After all this time, was this the first time the subject of marriage came up? That subject typically comes up generally on the first few dates - i.e. if the person's goals are in general to get married/have a family. If she never told you she felt like that I understand but it seems odd that you'd be together that long with the issue not being raised or discussed previously.

 

I think it's fine for you two to have divergent views about marriage - but it's not fine to judge each other re the importance of marriage and it's probably inappropriate for you two to continue dating given such divergent views.