The irony of NC

[ElektraHere]

i just can't follow that logic. i don't understand how refusing to speak a single word to someone is more mature than saying, "well, honey, you crapped all over me and flushed me down the toilet like used ScotTissue without explanation and now you don't say "boo" to me even when i send you an inocuous friendly greeting. i've spent many a night lying there with my eyes wet and wide open, wondering what the hell i did wrong. still, if you ever need somebody to talk to i'll always be here for you."

 

 

I have had that situation and you know what? The people I was getting advice from on here told me to move on. It wasnt worth my time to think of it anymore.That my person made his choice and to move on from that and live my life. It sucked and hurt and I wanted MY closure. I got that closure by giving it to myself. It would not have made a difference if he told me what it was to make him scurry. I would only have tried to figure it out even more. Its an endless question that goes on and on and on.

 

TRQ I am sorry that this guy wasn't a man to give you the proper good bye or farewell. I have learned that people do the best with what they have. That was the best he could do in that moment. It was not the choice you or I would have made but we are not them. It shows us that would we really want to be with someone that could only so much as email and then never to be heard from again. How would they react when the issues became more pressing?

 

TRQ let this man stick his head in the sand if that is the way he must cope. You stick your head up high and into the sun my dear.

[renaissancewoman101]

People are just plain mean and childlike. Karma will get them back somehow, somewhere. Honestly though, if a guy can have the balls to break up with you, why cant he have the balls to tell you WHY he is breaking up with you or ignoring you. You guy is not a man, he is a wimp since he doesnt have the cojones to break up with you and give you a reason.

 

Instead, he breaks up with you in the most insensitive way possible and runs off with his tail in between his legs.

 

He is the worst example of a man. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[TheRedQueen]

No Contact is not a normal breakup routine for me. What I normally find is that we both discover our feelings just aren't deepening, so we sort of level off into friendship. I suspect you've never been treated this way before in a breakup?

Nope, never!

 

I think what springing immediately into NC demonstrates is enormous immaturity; someone so incapable of dealing with another person's emotions, they just run away. I think, actually, there's no need to glorify this with a title, like "No Contact;" I think we could go so far as to say that he's just terrified you will make him feel bad. He won't talk to you, not as some plan like NC to heal himself, but because he is afraid.

 

I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. I have found NC to be more damaging in the long run than long conversations, tearful or otherwise, about "what went wrong." I guess I think if we care about someone enough to enjoy their company and be kind to them when we're with them, we owe them some kindness and caring in the end. NC should be a last resort, not the first, but that's just my opinion.

=D> You're right on the money, I couldn't agree with you more, thank you!=D>

[TheRedQueen]

Perhaps you and I have similar personalities cause this is EXACTLY how I feel, exactly.

[TheRedQueen]

I think someone who inititates a break up, and then completely refuses to speak to the other person at all is emotionally immature. That is my honest opinion. If someone breaks up with me, and I can't deal, and I want no contact, that's different. That is about healing. But breaking up with someone and running away is something kids do, not grownups. Grown ups deal.

 

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who would do that to me. In the immortal words of Daffy Duck "that's despicable."

I love you, you're awesome!!!!

[TheRedQueen]

You deserve a decent resolution before being stonewalled by this guy. There's no more unfair treatment for such an intelligent person than to deny them the facts they need.

I'm truly sad to hear this.

 

That's not fair, RQ. You did deserve some sort of explanation, or something.

This would throw anyone for a loop.

 

I'd like to smack this guy upside the head right now. After how far you have come, he has some sh/ty timing to blindsight you. It's not right.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

Thanks guys, your words affectively shifted my mood from this, to this , baby steps.

[TheRedQueen]

TRQ I am sorry that this guy wasn't a man to give you the proper good bye or farewell. I have learned that people do the best with what they have. That was the best he could do in that moment. It was not the choice you or I would have made but we are not them. It shows us that would we really want to be with someone that could only so much as email and then never to be heard from again. How would they react when the issues became more pressing?

Great point, thank you!

 

TRQ let this man stick his head in the sand if that is the way he must cope. You stick your head up high and into the sun my dear.

Sounds good to me.

 

People are just plain mean and childlike. Karma will get them back somehow, somewhere. Honestly though, if a guy can have the balls to break up with you, why cant he have the balls to tell you WHY he is breaking up with you or ignoring you. You guy is not a man, he is a wimp since he doesnt have the cojones to break up with you and give you a reason.

 

Instead, he breaks up with you in the most insensitive way possible and runs off with his tail in between his legs.

 

He is the worst example of a man. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Wow, reading all these responses really is comforting, so I'm not crazy for feeling the way I do, cool, I can dig it

Thanks.

[TheRedQueen]

I am beginning to think that in general, this is the way men end relationships.

So the old adage is true then, all men are cowards, aren't they?

[Dako]

At the risk of playing the gender politics card, I tend to agree.

[TheRedQueen]

^ What a cowardly response Dax, lucky you I find you tolerable.

[Juha]

TRQ I would disagree with that statement...

 

I am a man last time I checked and not a coward...

 

I had a g.f. we had been together 19 months and one day we got to her house and she said it was over and ran out of my car and into the house...

She kept in contact with me and I went NC... To this day she has never talked with me about our relationship and why she left...

 

Mind you this girl stayed with me at least half of the week....

 

 

That is a coward..........

[shes2smart]

As someone who has opted to go the NC route more often than not after a break-up, allow me to point out a couple things.

 

>We always tell people that doing NC should be about their own peace of mind, healing and well-being and not about their ex. If you take that view, then your ex's actions are not being done out of spite or to piss you off or hurt you…they are doing what they need to do to take care of themselves. Taking care of you is and always will be primarily YOUR job -– even when you are in a relationship -- so expecting the person who is breaking up with you to be concerned about your well being is expecting a little too much, IMO. Depending on the situation, even expecting them to be polite and civil might even be a bit much.

 

>The times I have been lured out of or chosen to break NC, it has ALWAYS led to messy, emotionally tiring and ultimately pointless conversations…and it didn't matter if I was the dumper or the dumpee. Basically it comes down to an exchange where the dumpee repeatedly asks the same questions in dozens of different ways, and the dumper keeps repeating the same answer in an increasingly tactless and frustrated manner. The dumpee ends up losing all their dignity and the dumper just becomes more firm in their resolve as to why they want to end the relationship. I'll say it again – I have been on BOTH sides of this supposed "closure conversation" and it is ALWAYS the same: A lot of unnecessary misery and a colossal waste of time for both parties. Instead of "closure" it usually just rips the wound open and irritates it again.

 

>When I have been in the dumper position, I have told the person I'm leaving why I'm leaving to the best of my ability to explain it. If you ask my exes though, I am sure they will claim I did not tell them. It is not my problem/responsibility that they chose not to hear it. When I look back at the times I've been the one being dumped, (when enough time has passed that I can be objective looking at it) the dumper has ALWAYS expressed some reason why he did not wish to continue, but I chose not to hear it at the time because it wasn't what I wanted to hear. The reason may not have made any sense to me, or even been the truth, but that's not the point—the point is I was always given a reason, I chose to not hear/understand/accept it.

 

I'm as guilty of selective hearing as any of the folks I broke up with. I don't think I'm markedly different from everyone else on the face of the earth, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the "selective hearing/selective understanding" is something nearly all of us do when confronted with something we don't want to hear. It's probably some sort of self-protective mechanism at best…a form of delusional denial at worst.

 

Is NC selfish? Undeniably so. But sometimes, in order to take care of ourselves, we have to be selfish. I prefer to think of that as "enlightened self-interest" since we've assigned so many negative connotations to the word "selfish." Expecting others to take care of us usually ends up with us not getting our needs met and being very resentful about it. As with everything in life, it's all about balance.

 

Is NC immature? Well…I'd say taking care of yourself is something you learn to do only after you grow into it and learn how to do it. Just as a baby is completely dependent on his/her parents to meet all their physical needs, as the child grows, s/he learns to take care of those needs him/herself. Growing emotionally is no different than growing physically. We learn by a trial-and-error process, and when we learn we become more self-sufficient and our expectations for others to meet our needs decreases. If NC is done from a stand point of taking care of oneself, and not as a way to manipulate another person into doing what you want them to do, then it's not immature.

 

Finally, we are all capable of having a huge blind spot in regards to our own character flaws, bad behavior and bad choices. I don't think an objective evaluation of where you went wrong is possible in the immediate aftermath of a break-up. The emotions are too raw, and if you don't sit with those emotions, express them, and process them they will come back and bite you in the butt later. Reflection on one's past behavior patterns is something that can (and probably should) be done at a later date when the initial phases of healing are over. Many people skip this step and end up having the same problems with a different partner later. It's no fun to look at yourself in an unflattering light and changing long-ingrained but unhealthy patterns is probably one of the toughest things you will ever do. However, the better you know yourself and learn to love, accept and care for you by making healthy choices in all areas, the better prepared you are to create a healthy relationship with another person in the future.

[Juliana]

I think it's a bit of a leap to assume that someone has "selective hearing" if they need an explanation for why the other person has decided to break up with them. I would not want to date someone who had so little empathy for another person, that they could simply slam that door and walk away without looking back. I would never feel safe or that I could trust that person, and I am self-reliant enough.

 

I really think in this case no contact is just a fancy name for treating someone else like cr*p because some people cannot handle ending relationships.

[shes2smart]

I think it's a bit of a leap to assume that someone has "selective hearing" if they need an explanation for why the other person has decided to break up with them. I would not want to date someone who had so little empathy for another person, that they could simply slam that door and walk away without looking back. I would never feel safe or that I could trust that person, and I am self-reliant enough.

 

I really think in this case no contact is just a fancy name for treating someone else like cr*p because some people cannot handle ending relationships.

 

So don't buy the selective hearing part. Fact of the matter is life isn't fair, we don't always get to find out the reason for things, and people won't always behave like we think they should. Sometimes, even when we find out the reason, it still doesn't help us get on with it. Sometimes the person leaving can't articulate the reason in a way that makes any sense to anyone but themselves. And, yes, sometimes people ARE given a reason, but if it doesn't make sense to them or it's not what they want to hear, they insist on believing they haven't been given a reason at all.

 

Break-ups are hardly ever mutual. You have to play the hand you were dealt because you're not going to get anywhere insisting/wishing/hoping the other person behaved differently. If that means you have to view them as being cold, unfeeling, flaky, uncaring or a horse's behind, so be it...but understand that it's rarely ever so clear cut as to be 100% one person's fault and 100% blamelessness on the other part.

 

There are three sides to every break-up story -- partner #1's side, partner #2's side, and the truth. We only ever get one-third of the story here.

[Juliana]

It has nothing to do with fault, or blaming anyone. No fault can be assigned to a relationship ending; that's just silly. If I were ever to start looking for fault after a relationship ends, I'd...god, it would never be over.

 

If someone doesn't have enough empathy to talk to other person as they leave them, if their whole method of leaving is to simply walk away, what the heck was the relationship about? How could the other person not be devastated by that? Walking away without looking back is a break-up technique that sociopaths use; the internet has dozens of boards full of women saying, "I thought we were happy, and one day he just never came home. I found him in Dallas with his new wife."

 

Life isn't fair, I realize, but we don't have to go out of our way to make it worse. And we may not be able to explain our reasons....but we frakin well have to try.

[kellbell]

"Walking away without looking back is a break-up technique that sociopaths..."

 

I am sorry but I respectfully disagree with the sentiment. I am no way a sociopath. I did break off a 4 year relationship last year and I did walk away from it all. I tried over and over to make things right. We talked and talked...to no avail. I had nothing left to give. The night I broke up with him, I told him, I was not happy. What other reason does he need? It would not have changed the fact I know longer loved him, he did not give a hoot about me or the relationship anymore, why would I rehash what is already known? I sacrificed my happiness and well-being for quite some time, why is it a crime to do afterwards, to look out for me, for once? He had plenty of chances to get his act together but he would fall into his same habits. I came to realize some time after I was placing expecatations on him, trying to make him into some whom he is not. We were not compatible.

 

After I left, I was not longer responsible for him, his well-being or his peace of mind, or giving him closure. That is not my place, all of those things come within. That is the other person's resposibility. I did not owe him anything. NC is selfish, on behalf of the person being dumped. But I grown tired of being in a co-dependent relationship and having it go no where. I did feel incredibly horrible about leaving him, I agonized over it for months, the thought of leaving. So a sociopath catagorization does not apply here.

 

People handle situations differently, people cope differently, as they see fit at the time the situation occurred. Whether is was the right choice or not, well, hindsight is always 20/20.

[Daddy Bear]

So the old adage is true then, all men are cowards, aren't they?

 

TRQ, i know that you say this because you have been harmed in the past by those who should have uplifted and empowered you. while it may be true that they were male, i reject the notion that they were MEN and, thereforeeee by extension, i reject your exclamation that to be a man is to be a coward. i'll go a step further--i will now prove to your satisfaction that you are absolutely wrong. i will be brief as i can be.

 

let me first tell you the story of two REAL men by the names of Martin L. "Lenny" Skutnik and Arland D. Williams Jr.

 

in January of 1982 an Air Florida jet with 83 people aboard smashed into a Washington, D.C. bridge and plunged through the ice of the Potomac River. six were spilled alive into the numbing water; the damage to the plane was so severe that of those who were not rescued, only one actually died of drowning.

 

Arland Williams was only of the lucky few ejected alive. he crawled onto the slowly sinking tail section and awaited help. when a helicopter lowered him a rope, he passed it to a fellow passenger who was freezing to death beside him in the water. again the helicopter returned, and again he handed the rope to a stranger who was certain to die in moments without it. blinded by jet fuel and suffering from terible shock and hypothermia, this woman's grasp slipped from the lifeline and she fell back into the biting cold Potomac. as crowds of onlookers grew thicker and TV cameras rolled, her struggles grew fainter. she began to die.

 

suddenly there was a splash at the river's edge. unable to merely stand and watch, Lenny Skutnik had torn off his jacket and launched his own body into the deadly water. he reached the unresponsive woman and, with his limbs quickly weakening, barely managed to drag her to shore.

 

Lenny Skutnik is not a coward. Lenny Skutnik is a man.

 

by the time emergency crews' attention turned back to the middle of the river, the tail section had gone under. Arland Williams was the only victim of the tragedy to die of drowning. by offering the rope to those in greater need, he had sacrificed his life for those of two people whom he had never met.

 

Arland Williams was a man.

 

so it is now that i stand horrified on the banks of the river of life, watching you founder without emotional assistance in your struggle to forgive and be happy. TRQ--i can be your Lenny Skutnik.

 

all i want from this world right now is to restore to you your stolen faith. i want you to open your eyes each day and be reminded not of those who disgraced themselves when it was their turn to be heroes; rather, of those brave men and women who died in the rescue effort of 9/11, of the guys who jumped on grenades to save their comrades, of the two men who risked their very lives for total strangers in the Air Florida disaster and of every person who ever summoned up his or her courage and stood when others fell. tell me what i can do to save you from the bitter coldness which threatens to engulf you, and i will do it.

 

how would you have me demonstrate that i am not a coward? in front of these witnesses, our fellow members of eNotAlone... i beg you to put me to the test. i will not fail.

[Dako]

The night I broke up with him, I told him, I was not happy. What other reason does he need?

 

KB,

 

That's exactly what my ex told me when she ended our marriage.

She said, "I'm not happy anymore." That was all I needed to know.

[Juliana]

Kellbell, sociopaths do not offer explanations. They just walk away. Their reasoning is, there's no benefit to them in trying to explain that they want to leave, and potentially, some drawbacks, so they don't explain.

 

You are describing what to me is a typical break-up. I don't know why you feel you are in any way comparable to a sociopath. When I used them as an example of pathological insensitivity, it was in relation to people who leave without giving the other person any explanation as to why. Narcissists also do this.

 

Although, to be honest, if that's the worst thing that happens to you in a relationship with a sociopath or narcissist, you're lucky.

 

Breaking off with someone and refusing to give them any explanation or even communicate with them afterward is not normal behaviour, and confusing it with "no contact" gives it a dignity that it doesn't deserve.

[shes2smart]

If someone doesn't have enough empathy to talk to other person as they leave them, if their whole method of leaving is to simply walk away, what the heck was the relationship about? How could the other person not be devastated by that? Walking away without looking back is a break-up technique that sociopaths use; the internet has dozens of boards full of women saying, "I thought we were happy, and one day he just never came home. I found him in Dallas with his new wife."

 

Alright, then...let's assume that it came down exactly like that. Beyond the hurt comes the realization that the person leaving was good riddance to bad rubbish and was one of those things called a blessing in disguise. Once they get beyond the initial shock they'll realize they're better off without such a person in their life, right? A hard lesson, but they can't all be easy lessons.

 

Events just are. Our attitude toward and thoughts about events are the only things that label them "good" or "bad."

 

Caught my last ex cheating on me. I was devastated. However, if that hadn't happened, I wouldn't have left when I did, and if I hadn't left there when I did, I probably wouldn't have met my husband when we were both single and available...so -boom- all of a sudden, catching the ex cheating ultimately turns out to be a good thing, though at the time it sucked.

 

For the OP to this thread and the others in a similar situation...they're in the crappy part of it right now...in another year or two or 5 or 10, they're likely to interpret current events very differently because they will have the gift of hindsight at that point.

 

Life isn't fair, I realize, but we don't have to go out of our way to make it worse. And we may not be able to explain our reasons....but we frakin well have to try.

 

No, we don't. Just like we don't have to learn a damn thing from our mistakes if we choose not to. That's what free will is all about.

[kellbell]

I was just under the impression in this thread that even though someone does offer an explaination of the whys, the dumper is still responsible for giving closure, to care about the dumpee's feelings even after the breakup and so forth and to me, this is not fair to either party.

 

I was also under the impression that this person Red Queen was referring to DID offer an explaination (via email), and THEN did NC. And that she just did not agree with how he handled it. It stinks when we do not have a say in how people handle matters but unfortunately, we cannot control what others do. We can only control how we react to situations.

[Juliana]

Kellbell: I don't think that anyone can "give" anyone else closure. But yes, I believe that if you have invited someone into an intimate relationship with you, you're responsible for doing your best to minimize the hurt they might experience when you leave. You know you're going to hurt them, there's no need to pour acid in the wound.

 

shes2smart: Yeah, you've got free will, alright. But that's the other thing, so does everyone else. I could walk outside right now, and punch someone in the face, but then, hey they'd hit back, and so it goes round and round....you will be treated in some way as you treat others. You see, the damage that is done by a bad breakup can take years to heal. Or it may never heal. Whereas a good breakup heals much faster; within weeks. If you don't care about the other person, by all means, hurt them as much as you can; let them be in pain for years. You can choose that. But then nothing good will be salvageable out of the relationship; you will have destroyed anything that might have been a happy memory or a source of strength. You lose the ability to look back and know that there are people you've loved who loved you and still care for you. It makes your world a cold and angry place to live. I don't see the point of it.

 

I don't choose to hurt people unnecessarily, and certainly not people I've been in a relationship with. When no contact is used as a means of minimizing the damage, that's understandable. But, barring abuse or infidelity, which are obvious explanations in themselves, why is the person you've made love with and shared your life with for any length of time suddenly someone you can't get away from fast enough?

[shes2smart]

You don't see the point of it because that's where your level of growth and understanding is at. Not everyone is at that level, nor do they need to be. We are all here to learn different lessons in this lifetime -- if we choose to do so. If you want to increase your own understanding, you need to respect where other people are in the present moment. You may may not understand it, you may even vehemently disagree with it, but in the larger picture, we are all right where we are supposed to be at any given moment.

 

As for healing time, I've had some absolutely horrendous things happen to me over the years. In every single case, the healing time was something entirely under my control -- I could choose to wallow in the misery, let myself become bitter, cling to fear, shut out light and love, and hold on to the past as long as I wanted to...and that was no one's choice but my own. I could also choose to let go of resentments, let go of my need to hurt back someone who hurt me, let go of old patterns and choices that got me into the mess I'd been in, and let go of my need to control the outcome and actively focus on healing myself and embracing the light within.

 

 

 

Because all relationships have a shelf life. People come into our lives and we enter other peoples' lives for reasons we may never fully comprehend or even get to know. When those reasons cease to exist, we move on. Some people have not learned how to say a decent goodbye (and they may never learn to do so), but it is not your place or mine to demand they do so or think less of them because they're not there. Some would even say those folks actually need more of your compassion and understanding...not less.

 

I keep in contact with only one of my exes. As for the rest of them, I hope they are happy, and I wish them well, but I feel no need to have any contact with them. Their part in my life is over, I grieved or celebrated their exit, or my exit (usually it was a combination of grieving and celebration), and there's absolutely no need for their part to continue in my life...or mine in theirs. There's no room for them here anymore, as I would hope there's no room for me in their lives at this point. I would even go so far as to say that if I want my life to be a place of peace, light, love and happiness, I would not allow them into it now.

 

Your path has obviously been different and it gives you a different viewpoint, which is as it should be. Can it be elastic enough to see that it is not necessarily the only way? Can it be elastic enough to see that while it is the appropriate path for you at this point in your evolution, it may not be appropriate for others at this point in their evolution?

 

I wish you well.

[kellbell]

"you're responsible for doing your best to minimize the hurt they might experience when you leave. You know you're going to hurt them, there's no need to pour acid in the wound."

 

I agree with this to an extent. I can be as nice as possible (which I was), but it is the perception on behalf of the other is what makes all the difference. I can be sweet, gentle and caring about why I broke up with him, but if he views me as an evil witch breaking his heart, I cannot control that. I cannot control how others feel and how they view matters, I can only control what I do and how I approach matters. It is not up to me to be a "people pleaser." I did that long enough with my ex and because of that, I endured a lot of pain, a hard lesson to learn.

 

What about all the pain I endured throughout the relationship? The times he hurt me, the times he could care less about my feelings, or my emotions? The times I tried with all my might to make things right, to no avail. So I really do not see the point in making things easier for the other.

 

Break ups are never easy, there is no textbook guide on how to handle to handle them or what to do, and break ups are rarely amiable. I believe both parties hurt, but in different realms. Yes, I can attest that some people are cold and heartless and break up with the other is a cruel manner but the for the majority of folks out there, at least from the year I have spent on ENA, it is an agonizing thing, for both the dumper and dumpee. No one ever gets out scott-free.

[Juliana]

shes2smart: I don't believe that events just are, and it is our attitude that makes them good or bad. (I knew I was going to end up having this conversation). There is absolute evil, and absolute good; all is not relative, and human beings are capable of understanding when something is morally wrong or morally good without being told. Even sociopaths have the capacity to know right from wrong; they just have no inner desire to pursue one over the other.

 

I cannot say that it is alright for me to treat people callously, and that if they suffer afterward for what I've done, that's entirely their responsibility.

 

"You don't see the point of it because that's where your level of growth and understanding is at."

 

Hmm. Okay. I won't be 42 for another six months, but I know of other sources who discuss how to treat other people:

 

"Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose on you." Confucius

 

"Let no man do to another that which would be repugnant to himself." Mahabharata (Hindu)

 

"Hurt not others in ways you yourself would find hurtful." Buddhism

 

"What you hate, do not do to anyone." Tobit

 

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Jesus

 

The path I've chosen doesn't allow me to see how it's okay for me to treat someone horribly and then forgive myself for it.

 

There is a jumped-up westernized version of reincarnation that implies that you will live another lifetime. There is no such doctrine in true Buddhism; there is no "soul" in Buddhism. You will cease to exist, and all that is you will vanish. The energy that you have created that is not tied to this world and it's suffering will be freed into Nirvana. The energy that is still tied to suffering will continue to be reborn into other living things. This is why Buddhists try not to harm any living thing; they wish to free themselves, the bit of the universe that they are, into Nirvana.

 

The idea that something will come along for the other person to even the score, to heal or to justify you or them, that's Christian, and it waits for the afterlife. Again, justice is not seen in this lifetime, but only after death.

 

Whatever has happened to you in your lifetime has allowed you control over your healing. I applaud that. I think that's wonderful. Things can happen to people however that can render them helpless to heal themselves. There is harm that cannot be undone. People are murdered, crippled, traumatized everyday. Sometimes those that can heal do. Sometimes, they don't. This is what my "path" has shown me. I try to be careful with other people. It is more important to me than anything else. I would rather be hurt, than hurt someone else, and I have been. Still, I'm happy with this decision. No "enlightenment" will contradict this.