A couple of important questions for people who were late bloomers.

[keenan]

I prefer the term messer!

 

I had to look that up:

 

MESSER, n., Seriously incompetent and / or disruptive individual. Joker.

 

"Seriously incompetent," eh? Sure, ok. Dealer's choice.

[Spawn]

I got you beat. I was 30 before I pulled my head out of my ...

 

 

 

ok that gives me some hope.

[tylercdurden2004]

I had to look that up:

 

MESSER, n., Seriously incompetent and / or disruptive individual. Joker.

 

 

"Seriously incompetent," eh? Sure, ok. Dealer's choice.

 

'ats what I tought to! Class clown...hhmmm...sounds familiar.

 

But really what is it that makes your mates so unfunny? I have a few mates that just arent comfortable in social situations and they just seem to be unable to make even the slightest attempt to be funny lest they offend someone. Nice guys perhaps?

[keenan]

Nice guys perhaps?

 

*Sigh* So transparent.

 

"Hey...what's that on the ground? Could it be a small animal trap?"

 

ALL of MY guy friends are nice guys...and the FUNNY nice ones have smart, funny, beautiful, sexy girlfriends who stick around because their guys treat them with kindness, love and respect...and as intellectual and social equals who wouldn't stand for being manipulated or condescended to.

 

 

Really, I think it's that the dull, unfunny ones are very earnest, self-focused, and literal. They like to drone on and on about themselves and their theories about life, and often enjoy telling their stories more than they enjoy living new ones. Because they can't pull their heads out of their own...worlds...enough to see a situation from the other person's perspective, they have a hard time finding the little 'gaps' or 'breaks' in an interaction that would allow for the insertion of a ironic twist or a sarcastic turn. They don't lack confidence. They aren't wimpy guys. They're just not very socially nuanced.

[Momene]

Geez, your story makes ME want to bang my head against a wall, so you must be pretty resigned to keep it this way.

 

You are staying with your wife for the sake of your daughter, but don't you see that what's happening is your daughter's learning from you and what you're teaching her is to sacrifice happiness and joy? Is that what you want for HER?

 

If I could definitely classify my marriage as "bad", I would tend to agree with you. If, instead it is somewhat lukewarm and unfulfilling (as it is), what would anybody gain from leaving? With my wife and I from different continents, there's the inevitability that our daughter whould be in a one-parent family with one parent being as good as completely absent, with only phone/e-mail contact and visits being at the mercy of our financial situation and ability to get time off work.

 

If she went with my wife, I would miss the most fulfilling part of my life, being her dad. If she stayed with me and my wife left, I'd be stuck with single parenting problems compunded by the fact that I'm away on business about a quarter of the time. An NO, there's not loads of alternative jobs where I can maintain my income level without travelling. I live nowhere near extended family who could help with childcare, althouigh this would be easier for my wife if she moved back in/near to her parents.

 

I would miss the bit of intimacy I DO get from my wife and occasional company.

 

If I were younger, I might be thinking in terms of a relationship after marriage and looking for another life partner but, quite honestly, I'm just not interested. The dreams in life I have left can be pursued while still in the current situation and indeed I'm working on them right now.

 

As for my daughter, she's 15 and at a critical stage of education and life. She and I are very close. She is fully aware that things aren't great between my wife and I but has also said that there aren't constant arguments either. She wouldn't expect either of us to stay if we were thoroughly miserable but doesn't want us to split at this crucial stage of her life either.

 

What I am teaching my daughter (and my wife is too) that we all have a sense of responsibility. Apart from the completely single without dependent relatives, none of us have the licence to do whatever we feel like at the time without regard for anyone else.

 

Would my life be enhanced by us splitting? No way!

[NJRon]

Momene... I don't think you guys are in all that bad of a way, like you say. However, you do need to cultivate something that's for *you*. I understand not having enough energy to pursue something... however, the energy follows the effort. If you wait until you feel like it, that time will never come. You need to force yourself first... then things will fall into place.

[Momene]

Momene... I don't think you guys are in all that bad of a way, like you say. However, you do need to cultivate something that's for *you*. I understand not having enough energy to pursue something... however, the energy follows the effort. If you wait until you feel like it, that time will never come. You need to force yourself first... then things will fall into place.

 

I'm a keen amateur astronomer, which gives me something else to enjoy. Also, I spend a lot of time with our daughter. I don't think my situation is far from uncommon. There's a guy on the BBC board today, saying pretty much the same thing. I just don't think people can sustain an all-consuming passion for each other for years on end. I think for it to last as long as it did for us was somewhat remarkable. It's just that when it reaches the stage where your partner is clearly more interested and motivated my things in life other than you, it leaves a sense of emptiness. You can either try to stay with it and get what you can out of it (as I am) or drag the whole family through a split, meet someone else, get to the same stage a few years down the line and go through it all over again.

 

Of course, there's the 3rd alternative of staying but straying but, even if you can morally justify it, it's not recommended.

[PocoDiablo]

First off, I think you folks flirting and goofing off is GREAT. It's a perfect REAL WORLD example of what chemistry looks like between two people. Or three people. Or 4 or 5.

I'm sorry I only engage in orgies with at least 5 other parties involved...

I guess this is now considered an orgy... woohoo!

 

 

To stave off melrich for awhile I'll try to get the thread a bit back on track.

I see no reason to shut this down; it's on topic of flirting by example!

 

I actually just want to give props to PocoDiablo. He comes on a bit strong, and if I were his flirtation target I might shoot him down...but I'd probably have a lot of fun doing it.

Thanks! And I'd love the opportunity to get shot down by you. It's all in fun.

 

However, believe it or not, I rarely - if ever - flirt online. I don't like the medium. I prefer to flirt with people in person, for real, so to speak. And it's one of those things that I simply cannot explain ... I'm a scary good flirt. Stuff just comes to mind for me, and my fiance says it drives her nuts because I seem to have a genetic ability to just *know* what to say or do. So this is why I do so well with clients in person, because I can just look at someone and know what to say. My clients watch and listen and learn.

 

How'd I learn to do it? Just practice, I guess. And a lack of fear. I learned one day that in order to get over my social fears I would have to be able to do anything. Now I am one of those guys that if you dare me to do something, and there's at least $20 or a round of drinks involved, I will do just about anything.

 

I've asked women to sell me their underwear (I got 4 or 5 pairs in less than ten minutes.) I've kissed guys (yuck!) I've approached the most attractive women anywhere and anyplace and had to strike up a conversation with her. I've stopped people on the street and asked them silly questions.

 

Hey, remember how Ross told us he'd date any woman, and I said I'd take pictures of ten women? Well, I did THAT too, yesterday (and I'll post them in a moment. It was boring though, next time I'll stop them and get a real portrait and ask them a question or something.)

 

I also have a VERY subtle and VERY dry sense of humor. About 99% of the time folks don't get my jokes. But the one woman who does (my fiance) will see me talking to someone and things just going right over their head and she'll have a laugh. I don't care; it's a qualifier as far as I am concerned. To like me is to like the fact that I can be low-key or the life of the party.

 

But what does it all boil down to? Chemistry. I've met a lot of people who are VERY boring and don't get the joke, can't flirt, whatever. I've met people who are very funny, but can't sustain it and they shut down after a few minutes and become boring. In essense, it was an act. You can't act, you must BE that flirt. Always. It has to be YOU. And all it takes is practice.

 

The cashier line? Very funny. The soda bit? Funnier. The 'give me your phone number' bit? Well...that could be weird and would require some defensive maneuvering on my part, but I'd probably get a kick out of the effort.

And I probably wouldn't use that line on anyone again. I swear most stuff I just say once, and I think of recent examples and discuss them here.

 

So ... what would it take to get your phone number, huh?

 

I've actually had my clients ask me to record my conversations with women when I am out and about. The dynamics are very powerful and they are hard to explain. But when you listen to what I say you'll see I am not a jerk, most folks don't get defensive, and it's just *fun* for everyone.

 

For better or worse, attracting a woman actually DOES quite often come down to saying crazy things to make us laugh.

 

Half the reason women LIKE guys is because they're funny and irreverent. Funny doesn't just mean funny. Funny is a clue that a guy is smart, creative , and confident…and funny is flattering. Having somebody burn that energy up to make me laugh is pretty cool. Plus, humor is fun for girls, too. It's great to talk to a guy who can take some sass and give it right back.

 

Two guys I know in "real life" come to mind. They're both attractive, smart, and have had lots of really amazing life experiences. They're both also really, really BORING. Why? Because they have NO SENSE OF HUMOR. They don't dish it, they don't take it. They don't even GET it. They're both single and don't understand why they never get dates. I like them as people and consider them friends, but frankly, I rarely want to spend time with them. It's actually very sad. They're missing out on half the fun of life—being a certified smart a_ss.

 

Use ENA as an example if you don't believe it. Who are the guys who get flirted with on here? Well...off the top of my head, I can think of Dako, NJRon, friscodj, and even, amazingly, tylercdurden2004 (no offense, Tyler love; I need an example of a social irritant who still manages to generate laughter and some positive feelings, and you're the most obvious example ). Why? These guys are funny! And on top of that, they're smart and thoughtful.

 

The combination of funny, confident, smart, and thoughtful is very powerful. Don't underestimate it, Ross_K. Your humor doesn't have to be as aggressive as Poco's. It can be low key, witty, or unexpectedly sly. But humor, no matter the kind (excepting slapstick, shudder) is the easiest way to break through the 'social shell' that we put on in public. Breaking through that shell is the quickest route to friendship and more.

Exactly. Great comments.

 

Now let's get back to that orgy!

[PocoDiablo]

Originally Posted by PocoDiablo

Do you want me to take a picture of ten women who are walking down the sidewalk tomorrow and then you tell me you'd want to date them and have sex? Let me know now so I can bring a camera.

Yeah go on

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and ...

[PocoDiablo]

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and...

[PocoDiablo]

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[PocoDiablo]

and last but not least...

 

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So, which of those women would you date AND have sex with? Huh?

 

Don't dare me to do stuff ... I'll do it!

[PocoDiablo]

Heck, I was thinking about it, and I'd bet that I could get ten random women to kiss me, on video and film, on the street.

 

Can you do that?

[tylercdurden2004]

How'd I learn to do it? Just practice, I guess. And a lack of fear. I learned one day that in order to get over my social fears I would have to be able to do anything. Now I am one of those guys that if you dare me to do something, and there's at least $20 or a round of drinks involved, I will do just about anything.

 

I really dont think we would ever make good drinking partners. One or both of us would end up in the clink! But then again it would be a great story!

[KweenofDenyl]

I really dont think we would ever make good drinking partners. One or both of us would end up in the clink! But then again it would be a great story!

 

My darling social irritant, why do so many of your posts involve alcohol? I'm sensing a red flag here and postponing the wedding...

[tylercdurden2004]

My darling social irritant, why do so many of your posts involve alcohol? I'm sensing a red flag here and postponing the wedding...

 

Um sorry maybe its my bad but doesn't WEDDING=ALCOHOL! At least the few that I bartended at did hmmmm...maybe I need new friends

 

And all your cutting remarks are leadig me to dispare....and beer.

[KweenofDenyl]

I didn't know your wife would definitely leave the continent

I'm glad you have a good relationship with your daughter--that is the most important thing here, IMO.

As parents we DO have to be responsible and make sacrifices, I'm just trying to figure out if you're making the wrong ones.

[Derek]

Funny thread...

 

The flirters are doing well... all sassy-like.

 

Poco, out of all those pictures, I'd like to talk to the woman in the background in the light brown trenchcoat pulling the little suitcase in the 2nd last picture you posted. I'm thinking she's a lawyer or business professional, might travel alot and could use some conversation to let her forget her regular 80 hour per week workload.

 

People watching is fun...

 

 

[Momene]

I didn't know your wife would definitely leave the continent

I'm glad you have a good relationship with your daughter--that is the most important thing here, IMO.

As parents we DO have to be responsible and make sacrifices, I'm just trying to figure out if you're making the wrong ones.

 

She has said on more than one occasion that she would go back to her home country if we split or I died. Whether she'd try to take our daughter with her is debatable. Even if she decided to "boot me out" or rent a flat somewhere here, we'd still be left with trying to run 2 homes on an income that can't even support one. The best thing for ME is to stay together until our daughter is old enough to look after herself, at least for part of the time. It's probably less than 3 years away now. Whilst I'm gradually asserting more power in our marriage (and I feel sad to even admit that), I don't want to do anything that might encourage her to split before I'm ready. I haven't totally given up hope that our marriage can be better than it is now. I'd say it's better than it was a year ago. More than anything, I'm keeping an open mind about the future. It may be alone, it may still be with my wife but I must be prepared for whatever life throws at me.

 

The only freedom I see myself having is the freedom to spend money without having to get agreement with anyone, which is a bit pointless when there's not much to spend and being able to sleep with other women, which I'm not really that bothered about.

[KweenofDenyl]

ARRGGHH! You just sound so depressed and resigned!!

 

I want to reach out accross the Atlantic and grab you by the shoulders and shake you and say "It doesn't have to be this way!".

 

But, , I know that YOU know your situation better than anyone else and if you are doing what you think is best, then it is. I admire your committment to your daughter and I'm sure she is a better person for it.

[PocoDiablo]

Poco, out of all those pictures, I'd like to talk to the woman in the background in the light brown trenchcoat pulling the little suitcase in the 2nd last picture you posted. I'm thinking she's a lawyer or business professional, might travel alot and could use some conversation to let her forget her regular 80 hour per week workload.

As I recall, she was like 45. Too old for me! But you can find here right here in downtown Washington DC.

[Momene]

ARRGGHH! You just sound so depressed and resigned!!

 

I want to reach out accross the Atlantic and grab you by the shoulders and shake you and say "It doesn't have to be this way!".

 

But, , I know that YOU know your situation better than anyone else and if you are doing what you think is best, then it is. I admire your committment to your daughter and I'm sure she is a better person for it.

OK, what other way is there? I'm not being abused. Neglected, somewhat, yes, but not abused. How can impoverishment and a choice between single or absent parenting benefit me?

 

Not being rude, just asking.

[Derek]

Are cougars so bad?

 

=)

[KweenofDenyl]

Are cougars so bad?

 

=)

 

I don't get it...did I miss something?

[Ross_K]

I go away for a day and my topic's suddenly got about 10 extra pages.

 

Poco, there was a few okay babes in those pictures, that black chubby chick dressed in black wasn't too bad. Thing is though most of the women were really old.