keenan

wow -- vivid imagery, ryan! the alliteration contributes a lot of power. it's also very sad -- filled with pain and bitterness. i don't know if that's what you were going for -- more 'escape from torment' than 'release into the arms of a waiting loved one' are you planning to give it to the family?

Elements. As in...elements of nature = fire and water, whereas elements of love = pain and lust.

i know--i wonder if the girl ever got her 150 dollar present? how did the story end? no satisfaction....

that is so weird -- i have no idea. i didn't even notice that it was old, and now that you mention it i don't even know any of these people! 99% of the time i only look at brand new posts, but somehow this jumped in out of nowhere. sorry to be a goof!!

Oh now...let's not be hasty. LOL. CP, you could either explain right before you exchange gifts that you went kind of crazy when shopping for her (and apologize), or you could take the gift back and get (or make) her something smaller. Is the big gift thoughtful? A thoughtful gift is better than an expensive one, but if the big one is thoughtful and you really want her to have it, I think you should just give it to her but do your best to make her feel comfortable.

I agree with your friends. I'm sure you must have positive feelings for this guy, but from your description of his behavior he sounds dishonest, lazy, manipulative, and mean. This isn't a cultural issue...it's a jerk issue. You sound great ~ take care of yourself. Edited to say that I'm not suggesting that he's a jerk because he prefers that you pay half -- this is variable in relationships (although to expect you to pay half for a wedding present for HIS friends is unusual). I'm objecting to the fact that he cheated on you, and that he's using your culture as a reason to insult you & suggest that your feelings about relationship finances, child rearing, and work ethic are unreasonable and somehow less valuable than his own.

Congratulations on finding each other. That's an awesome story! I'm going to buck the trend here and suggest that you wait. You love each other, and an engagement will probably happen within the next couple of years, so why force it after just 8 months? Enjoy his company, give him time to get over the bad taste in his mouth (at least past the one-year mark of his divorce), and develop the intimacy with you and trust in the relationship that will allow you--as a couple--to have an honest conversation ABOUT this very topic. If you can't talk about a lifelong commitment to one another openly, but are sitting on your hands nervously and excitedly waiting for him to surprise you like you're a 16 year-old kid and he holds the keys to the car, the time might not be right. Excitement is fantastic, but it's not the wisest emotion to propel this kind of action. Forcing his hand, so to speak, may not turn out the way you hope.

yah, i don't disagree with you. i was just trying to flesh out tronix's remark a bit. by the way, whatever happened with your guy? are you still together (and quiet)?

Chill. Wait until tomorrow night.

Comfortable silences could mean that two people are content to rest easy in one another's company without feeling pressured to fill space.

No worries. I describe the dance as I see it, and I don't mind doing it because it's easy for me. If I were a guy I'd probably hate it, too. I think that's one reason I try to be extra friendly if I *do* like a guy ~ ask his name, shake his hand, say it was nice to meet him. I dunno ~ do my part a little more actively. But it's true that the guy I'm with now was the one who kept pushing at every step -- asking me on 'friend dates' 1, 2, and 3...then telling me at the end of the last one that he wanted more. I don't know how long it would have taken me to get off my safe seat and make the first move. Sorry it's hard.

yeah...it's not like he asked you what time you needed to get up.

Funny ~ I'm bad at this stuff too, having mostly spent years and years with one person. But my assumption in this case is that if he'd wanted you to stay, he would've asked you to stay -- whether in a straightforward way or a cutsie way. Moreover, he could have replied to you something like, "Oh, too bad you can't stay tonight..." Did you WANT to stay?

platonic kisses to you! i'm grateful for dako, who (long, long ago) made life seem managable, and who made ENA seem like the kind of place i might want to spend some time.

I agree that that could be tough. You sound a bit bitter and discouraged. I guess what I'm suggesting is that guys would face less rejection if they DID wait a bit for some non-verbal encouragement. By doing that, you're allowing her to make the first move *in her own way*, and thus incurring less risk. Besides, who's really to say what girls should "have to do"? The first move that you describe (just walk up and ask for a number) is the one you choose; the one I describe (eye contact, a smile) is the one she might choose. Honestly, yours sounds like it may not be particularly effective (which might be why you're feeling frustrated enough to write about it). You seem to be saying that because it's hard for you, she should have to do the same thing and suffer as well. Maybe you should try a different technique, intead? It's about finding 'flow' and doing what works -- not trying to force something and getting upset when it doesn't work, then feeling bitter that she isn't taking the same risks.

I suspect that it sounds more complicated than it really is when you put it into words. It's like walking ~ pretty easy to do, pretty tough to describe the biomechanics. BUT...I totally agree with your second paragraph! We all (humans) live in our heads so much....

ok ~ a real list. i'm grateful for: living in a place where i can see the ocean AND the mountains each day. having friends who are warm, loving, reliable, and fun to be with. recently accomplishing a couple of big, long-term goals. working in a challenging and exciting field. sunshine & rain & the stuff in between. having just enough disposable income to indulge in lots of books, music, and good food. knowing that the future is wide open to exciting possibilities. enjoying change. my family, challenges and all. soft sheets. warm towels. good coffee. fluffy blonde dogs who smile a lot. camp fires. good audio gear. doughnuts. bacon. cross-country skiing. the color red. believing that i can land on my feet no matter what happens to me. waking up happy.

hehehe.

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't ~really~ know if I like a guy just from the way he looks and sounds when he orders his coffee...at least, not enough to say 'Hey, I like you; let's go out." What I know is that I find him pleasing in some way, and by smiling and making a comment about the book that he's holding, I'm letting him know. If he smiles and talks back (and I like what he says) then I return the volley, and then if he likes what I say he can reciprocate, and so on. What's happening is that *together* we're gathering enough data to decide how we might, possibly, maybekindasortahopefully, feel about one another. I then will usually wait for him to issue the first formal invitation -- to sit down and talk, to have coffee later, to grab a beer, whatever. In a sense, this is turn-taking: I put myself out there initially by smiling and making eye contact and sending good vibes his way; we fill in the middle part together, and then he puts himself out there by asking me to do more. It's kind of brilliant in the sense that if we're ABLE to do that complex dance and get to the other side with good feelings and a tentative date, then we've already demonstrated that we're somewhat on the same wavelength ~ an important part of any friendship. It's a self-selection process that we made it through together. I should also add that by writing all of this, it makes it sounds like I pick up guys on a daily basis, LOL. I don't. The dance doesn't have to happen very often to pick up the basic steps.

That's a great gift, actually. It's harder to live with regrets than loneliness.

I totally agree with this. I don't think I do it consciously or with the intent to manipulate, but I'm also aware, on some level, that I can increase the odds of a guy asking me out a thousand-fold by smiling, laughing, and making eye contact a few times. If I throw out a casual comment or crack a joke, I'm even more likely to get a friendly response. I'm not convinced this is so much a function of attractiveness ~ If I "aim" for a guy who is physically out of my league, he's not going to come running just because I smile. But if somebody is in my general ballpark (and single, and looking, and attracted to me), then by smiling and cracking a joke I'm narrowing the gap between us without actually making myself too vulnerable. Is that dishonest? Maybe. Childish? Silly? I don't know. I don't really think about it like that. I just think that guys (and women) respond to people who are obviously nice, friendly, and approachable, and who aren't going to shoot them down! Whether from evolutionary pressures or socialization (more likely), this version of the dance seems to be more common. I also admit that I like it because it's easier on me ~ nobody likes rejection...so I guess my fragile ego benefits from the social norm. It only really backfires if a guy doesn't get the hint (rare) or when a woman is honestly just being friendly and it gets misinterpreted (unfortunately too common)....

To me, cologne is overpowering and cloying. I have a really sensitive nose, though, and prefer to keep the air clear for other smells: clean laundry, freshly-cut grass, spring breezes, cinnamon rolls, coffee, bbq. If a guy smells relatively clean (most shampoo smells good!) I'll encode that as 'he takes care of himself and he's unfussy' ~ a good combo. No amount of cologne will cover up bad smells.

I hate all cologne. Men smell best when they smell like soap and clean laundry.

I'm so sorry you're sad. It sounds like you've worked hard and have put a lot of yourself into this relationship. Hang in there. It will get easier over time. We're here for you.