Choose between love and sexual chemistry?

[TiredMan]

as I said before, some people are intended to be married or in a long relationship, while others need to just go out and have lots of "fun".

[NJRon]

Marriages and Long Relationships include passion and sex. While having "fun" does not necessarily include marriage or long relationships, it doesn't preclude them either.

[Scout]

Marriages and Long Relationships include passion and sex. While having "fun" does not necessarily include marriage or long relationships, it doesn't preclude them either.

 

I sure hope not. Although, it's difficult for me to believe passion stays in a marriage. I mean, it may resurface sometimes, but I tend to associate passion with the early days of a relationship. But having never been married, I can only base these assumptions on what I've read and seeing the marriages around me.

 

That being said, I'm lucky that I have a lot of good examples of marriages around me. They may not be filled with passion, but there is certainly affection and mutual respect going on there.

[NJRon]

There is a passion.. not necessarily a blinding infatuation... but a passion. At least, in my experience and from those I know.

[Scout]

Where ten years later you're still referring to your partner as snookie-wookie-woogums?

[NJRon]

No... more like you've progressed to "Get in the truck b****"... but you both think that's hot.

[Scout]

-bursts out laughing-

[TiredMan]

Marriages and Long Relationships include passion and sex. While having "fun" does not necessarily include marriage or long relationships, it doesn't preclude them either.

 

No they involve loyalty, communication and connection WAY before those 2. The person I am with now and have been for years. If me and her NEVER had sex again, it wouldn't make me leave.

[NJRon]

So ... for most of the poeple I know, it involves passion, sex, loyalty, communication and connection. For you, it just involves 3 out of the 5. I guess it's good that you aren't as slective. Good for you, you are truly the lucky one.

[TiredMan]

So ... for most of the poeple I know, it involves passion, sex, loyalty, communication and connection. For you, it just involves 3 out of the 5. I guess it's good that you aren't as slective. Good for you, you are truly the lucky one.

 

Didn't read where I wrote "No they involve loyalty, communication and connection WAY before those 2"

 

Where did you read that it's ONLY those 3 out of 5?

 

Those 2 are there too but if they are before the other 3, there is a problem.

[NJRon]

I agree, if they are *before*, there is a problem with the person. If they are entirely absent though, that's a failing of the relationship as a whole.

 

However, you said if you had those three and NEVER had sex, you wouldn't leave. Which leads me to believe that at least 1 of those 5 wouldn't bother you. Can you have passion without sex? Maybe... never experienced that. So I assumed the the 3 out of 5.

 

You are saying that those 2 items are there also, but the other 3 take precendent. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. However, if those two items are entirely absent, then everything really collapses.

[TiredMan]

Yes because it's hard enough to find those 3 things and in my relationship now, they are VERY strong. The importance of sex changes, IMO, as one matures (not just age but in terms of mindset and relationships).

[Stambler]

I'm getting really confused with the numbers. Can we get back to Ramsickle’s issues here?

 

TiredMan, no offense, but if you have never actually BEEN in the situation where your partner/spouse of many years has lost interest in sex, then, well, I just don't think you're able to make a realistic assessment of a relationship without sex.

 

It EASY to think that you could live without the sex (while you are with a willing partner) but when your partner (suddenly or gradually) loses interest in sex, it affects you in way you could never imagine.

 

I'm afraid one simply has to live through that emotional roller-coaster in order to understand.

I hope you never have to go through it... I am and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

[eljose]

So true Camber.

 

It sucks when the love of your life decides that something you shared together is suddenly not that important. Unfortunately, that is a unilateral decision. I can not have a compelling, dynamic love life on my own. I need a partner, and if I am married, I have only ONE choice.

 

Again, if she had told me how she felt about sex before we were married, I would not have married her.

[TiredMan]

Camber, I feel that if all the other things are VERY strong (they have to be to accept the lack of sex thing) then communication is also very strong. So I wouldn't have those feelings. If the other things weren't there, and the sex was the best sex EVER, I would still leave her........................... after a few weeks.

[ramsickle1369]

Wow, you guys have been busy today! I guess the issue I am dealing with is the fact that you really CAN have all those things -- at once and with the same person. And if you don't then there's two choices, fix it or get out. Staying in a relationship lacking any of those things is a slow death and torturous.

 

I have now moved into my parents place for a few weeks while we figure out how to separate finances so that I can address the issue which is my own. I talked in great length with my brother last night and he said things that I'd heard before, but I guess this time it clicked.

 

His assessment was there are basically 3 issues. 1. the sexlife between us and where we are. 2. the issues he has with showing the affection and 3. the issues I have with myself having never supported myself--never proving to myself that I can be a self sufficient human being.

 

His idea was to take the time apart, but not close the door on the future either. And while that takes all of me to NOT close that door, I understand where he's going with it. If husband takes time to address his own issue (affection) and at the same time, I take the time to address MY own issue (self-sufficiency) and then we meet at some time when we both feel ready to see if resolving those issues lends us (me) to WANT to resolve the sex issue, then we begin dating again and basically start over. He was implicit about NOT going back to anything. Meaning to go forward, with a new outlook. And I of course find that impossible to do as I feel now. BUT, it is something that is do-able I guess. So, I will be talking with husband to see if we can agree on something like that.

 

In the meantime, I will be moving out on my very own, making new friends and doing new things to make myself feel like a whole person, not an extension of husband. Perhaps, doing that will allow me to WANT to try again with husband, perhaps not. But it's a road map I can take.

 

SO.... now I am terrified and finding myself thinking, "is this really going to happen? Am I really going to be doing this?" And of course all that is terribly exciting, too. And yes, feeling lonely, largely because I have very few friends to keep me busy, too. That was partly my own fault, partly an issue that high-school lent to me--not a good bunch of people to choose friends from. But I do plan on extending that group to better understand myself, and have a network of people I can call my very own.

 

And at the same time if he works on the intimacy issue, and we try dating again in the future (weeks or months, whatever it takes) and we do work it out, then good, but if not, then we know it wasn't right to begin with.

 

As I've shared with you all, I've discovered much about my relationship and myself that I was unhappy with. I no longer blame him because he didn't want to have sex. It was clearly MUCH MUCH more than that.

 

Thank you all for your support...

[sometimes_vague]

WOW, I have been searching the internet for months now, trying to find answers for myself. Only to find this discussion so similar to my own dilemma. I feel for you and what you have been going through, as I too am in a very similar situation.

 

Complete love and friendship for my partner of 4 years, yet no sexual chemistry at all for him and the pain that causes us both. I hid it for years, thinking it would get better with time. It hasn't and I have become resentful and finally I can no longer have sex with him at all.

 

The problem with my partner is that he is so generous, and wonderful in our relationship and lifestyle together. We are so harmonious. But in the bedroom, he is so selfish and it is like he is just using me to get himself off. I can't remember how many times he comes and then I'm just left there laying unsatisfied.

 

We have talked about it often. He just has never understood it. Until a couple of weeks ago I put it all in writing, explicitly recalling our sex life step by step and he came back to my saying it was the first time he's ever realised in his 33 years of life that sex has always only ever been about him. He's embarrassed and upset and has asked for a second chance to make it right.

 

I don't think we can give it another go. I am so blocked mentally to the idea of us having sex. I don't want to anymore. I have been hurt so many times and felt so used, that I don't feel I owe him that, let alone wanting to.

 

I get torn mostly about the possibility of losing my friend and companion, a man who supports me on every level other than the sexual level. We have built a home and have so many financial committments together. Leaving him means losing everything we have both worked hard for and love.

 

But with each day I am realising that he is only a friend, he isn't a lover and we can never share that deep connection that I need in a relationship.

I don't want to hurt him, I don't want to lose all that we have together, I'm scared out of my mind to end it. But I don't want to be in a relationship where there is no chemistry. What will keep us together in the hard times. I want to feel a spark when I look into my partners eyes... not just warmth of a friendship.

 

How do we allow ourselves to enter and stay in such relationships?

[ramsickle1369]

But with each day I am realizing that he is only a friend, he isn't a lover and we can never share that deep connection that I need in a relationship.

I don't want to hurt him, I don't want to lose all that we have together, I'm scared out of my mind to end it. But I don't want to be in a relationship where there is no chemistry. What will keep us together in the hard times? I want to feel a spark when I look into my partners eyes... not just warmth of a friendship.

 

How do we allow ourselves to enter and stay in such relationships?

 

My Dearest "Sometimes Vague":

 

If you've read this entire thread then you know EXACTLY how sorry I am to hear you are going thru the same thing.

 

One thing you should consider is therapy together, that is... if he will go. You may only realize that you are done, but it is something you should allow yourself to do. In my situation, I wanted to go with my husband, but I needed him to make the appointment, that's all--just make the damn appointment. He didn't and I went ahead without him. Then I realized that I don't want to go to therapy with him. I don't regret it, because I already was done and closed. AND I'd known it for many many years AND felt the passion at least twice with other men--without ever getting ANY satisfaction from it. Obviously every situation is somewhat different, but if you do feel any passion for him at all, do the therapy, AND FAST! The longer you "think" about things, the less therapy will have any chance in getting you back together --- if that's even something you'd consider.

 

I am by no means in any position to tell another WHAT to do, just offer what I went thru and hope it helps someone else. I am very glad that you found this thread and were able to realize you are NOT alone.

 

You asked why we stay in these situations... For me, it harkens back to some stupid high school insecurities where all the boys liked ANY of my girlfriends over me. And All I ever wanted was a boyfriend. I never contemplated what I would do by myself because I was SO focused on having "someone". At the very least, you need to explore why you are still there... There are a bunch of great books to read if you're a reader... Check out the titles by Iyanla Vanzant... Educate yourself and explore the pain you're feeling. It's no fun, it hurts, but you have to just experience it to gain the perspective. "It's a process" so they say.

 

I completely get the feelings of losing your best friend, your life companion, all the beautiful memories and things you've planned and created together. But without all that, what do you have? Is it a lover OR a friend? Marriage is supposed to be BOTH.

 

For me, I came to realize that he and I spent thousands of dollars on things… things, things, things! Without all the financial obligations, what did we really have? I am realizing that we didn't have much. All the "stuff" effectively filled the void between us, for a while.

 

I really know where you are right now, and hope I can help in any way possible, even if you want to just talk… I've met some wonderful people thru all this and am eternally grateful that I found this site. Feel free to email me anytime…

[sometimes_vague]

Thanks Ramey for your thoughts. My partner does want to go to therapy, even sexual therapy to find an answer. But my gut feeling is, if I feel so little when he kisses and touches me and have mostly always felt this way, no amount of therapy is going to change the chemicals that we are missing. It isn't our communication that isn't working, its the deeper level that no amount of talking will change - or so I think. I am actually a counsellor myself, so the idea of going to counselling is also quite confronting. They say that it is common for counsellors to find it more difficult to deal with their own issues as we are less likely to share ourselves with others, as they expect we have our lives more sorted out - we should know better! But for me I have always believed in the power of the kiss. And the sad thing is, we've never had a kiss that has given me tingles, its always been awkward. That should have told me early on that something was missing. But we have such a wonderful life and friendship that I guess I kept telling myself it would get better once we knew each other better. But I'm thinking now, after 4 years of a wonderful life together, shouldn't the kiss be right by now? And its not. I just don't know how I could leave him. I know it will devastate him as he is 100% in love and says he has the spark and wants to committ to us and our future. He gives me all the freedom in the world and supports me in anything I want to do, no matter how crazy, yet its just that one thing missing.

 

My question for a while has been whether friendship is enough for a long term relationship, especially when everyone you talk to says that chemistry dies down with time. What if I leave him and find chemistry. Only to end up in another relationship without the friendship I have now and a wilting chemistry.... will it be my biggest regret ever??

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm a journey it certainly is!

[ailsagirl]

But I am amazed at how closely my situation matches Ramsickle's... except I've been married fifteen years and have three children. That, and I am not starting my own business! (wish I were...) I have torn myself to pieces trying to understand to what degree I have a right to feel the way I do - and to make the break as I'm considering doing. I, too, find my husband to be a brother and not a lover. I haven't allowed him to kiss me, because I find it repellant, since our early marriage. He is a decent man but emotionally distant and controlling. He doesn't lack passion for me, but I have absolutely no interest in him and could sleep through having sex with him... it's that boring. We have discussed this issue for fifteen years and for most of them have had sex not as frequently as once a month. Always a chore. If this were the only problem I'm not sure I'd need to leave. I'm not going to get into all that, because I think what I'm doing is trying to justify to myself the fact that I want so very much to leave. But I'm terrified of being alone. I haven't worked outside the home in fifteen years! And I have no family in the area to help me. It's frightening, but not as scary as realizing I might decide to stay with him simply because I'm afraid of being alone. I've never been so confused.

 

This is my first post and probably it won't be read. That's okay; I'm glad to write this all down.

[ramsickle1369]

Shock # 1, ailsagirl, I bet this thread gets a lot more hits than we think. Sure, it’s really long, and IMO it SHOULD be… We are all in similar situations…

 

Sometimes Vague—you are in a position where I was. I too had a wonderful man in my life. Supported every stinkin idea to the max and supported me financially for many years… even tho I have always had money coming in (even if it was unemployment). I am a fairly strong person and it amazes me even that I was willing to stay in a marriage where we simply weren’t sexually compatible.

 

Thursday night I signed the papers to sell the house to him and at first I was sad looking around that house at all the dreams and plans that would never be. Then he began trying to convince me that I was making the wrong decision. But no matter how hard I banged my head against that wall, he wouldn’t even consider getting the point. He kept saying, “ But I was so happy.” And every time I replied, but you know that I wasn’t, you told me so hundreds of times! Then a wise man said to me that “he is completely MISSING the compatibility part. If he's happy without sex, and you were unhappy without it, then there simply wasn't the match there should have been and he must realize that although nobody is to blame, it means it may just not work out. And in this case it didn't and really couldn't.”

 

The part that was so completely heart-wrenching was that he wouldn’t even look at how I wasn’t happy. It was all about him! And then there were all the guilt trips… Part of that is my own concern, but he says things like, “I feel sorry for you because you are going to be 50 years old and you aren’t going to have a pension or any savings.” And what I didn’t say to him a that time was that I WAS entitled to half of everything he has, pension, stocks, insurance, alimony, etc. But I just am not that type of person. I WANT to do it alone. I have a support system of friends and family and a career that for the first time in my life is actually taking off. And besides, he was the one that worked for all of that pension and it was his life insurance prior to me. He deserves it.

 

As for the counseling… I thought when I started counseling I would forgive all the anger and pain and be able to go back to the relationship with a fresh start and allow my husband to show his passion, and be accepting of it. Unfortunately, all I realized was that it wasn’t ever there to begin with. And that I was angry at myself for allowing 7+ years to pass without making a change out of fear. You should never make any decision based on a fear. Fear of being alone, fear of leaving, fear of NOT leaving… Fear of hurting someone… Fear of disappointment… Fear is an irrational emotion and will never make you happy.

 

As for the kiss… I agree 100%! I never felt that spark when we kissed. And I have felt it in previous relationships. But when I met my Husband my previous relationship was such turmoil, it seemed OK. But I always assumed it would magically happen one day. I always thought maybe the next time it’d be different. Holding on to hope… for many many years. Then I saw some drug on TV that brought the “passion” back. I guess it was something like Viagra for women. Well, then one day, I realized I COULD feel that way, without drugs! And that was it. I was absolutely sure the marriage was wrong for me. Now I know about my mistake. I can admit that it was a mistake and move on, even tho it is excruciatingly painful and scary as hell.

 

You have to find a way to accept what you feel—no matter how awful the process will be, you have to be true to yourself. And it’s only fair to your partner too.

 

Every single one of us has the strength in us to stand on our own and do what’s right for us. I firmly believe that God puts us in situations we CAN handle, and no more. He sends us sign after sign of what to do. Whether it is a gut feeling, a smile from a stranger, or a blatant kick in the gut (as in my case)… If you really listen to your intuition, you already know the right answer. And there’s no doubt that there will be loneliness and pain… but these are things we CAN and SHOULD experience. God will always be there to remind us of true unconditional love.

 

Sorry to sound born-again because I am the LAST person you’d ever expect to get all religious, but there have been many messages that have given me strength so I guess I am becoming more of a believer (or it’s just easier to accept it that way).

 

One final thought (for now)… I am 30 right now. And I was 20 when I met my husband. I was attached in a previous exclusive relationship for the three years prior to that. I never dated any wrong people to really know when it was right. I regret that, not for the hope to date around, but because I robbed myself the precious lessons of dating—because I feared being alone. Alone in the sense that there would be a holiday or an event where I didn’t have someone to go with. Since I was a teenager I used to tell my mom, “I just want to have a boyfriend.” And I never considered what NOT having a boyfriend would do for me. But I needed to experience these things to know about real love and real passion. I feel like I have been playing house for the past 13 years and now I am finally growing up.

 

PLEASE consider all of your options rationally. If you are afraid of something, then figure out why and overcome it. DO NOT base any decision on fear.

 

And post away, your story will likely help someone else like us…

[Ash]

ailsagirl, admittedly a long thread, but it will/is being read by those touched by and offering support and advice to Ramsickle and others in similar situations.

 

Welcome to eNoteAlone. Perhaps this is a place where through posting and reading you can gain some insights into your situation and examine your relationship from all angles, hopefully learn even more about yourself, make the decisions you need to, to move ahead in your life. vbmenu_register("postmenu_1022947", true);

[Ash]

sometimes_vague, welcome to eNotAlone. I suspect two of the reasons for the popularity of this posts are the powerful message conveyed in the title of the thread and the fact that the original poster has updated the thread as events have happened and as she's grown through the entire experience. I'm sure many others find that informative and helpful.

 

Perhaps since this is a different style of opening up about issues you'll find it easier than going to counselling yourself. If not, then at least (I hope) you find something of value here. As you know it's all very free form, and I'm sure you'll see perhaps there are things that aren't done quite right but you'll find open ears and compassionate souls whether they've been in the same situations or not.

[Cyberchick]

Hi Ramsickle and everyone... I read the original post awhile back and really feel for you. I can imagine it's an incredibly tough time for you. I wanted to put something out there for you to think about. You may have thought about it already.

 

What have your previous relationships been like, as far as the the friendship part goes? You mentioned having been in an abusive relationship prior to the one you are in. Have you been in other abusive relationships? Did you feel passion in those relationships? Could the lack of passion you feel for your husband have anything to do with the fact that everything else about the relationship IS healthy ( not to oversimplify, of course ) ? I've heard this can happen, where women don't find chemistry with nice guys because they are unconsciously attracted to men that treat them badly. Could this be the case for your relationship?

 

I'm not belittling what you have gone through, or putting the blame for the lack of passion on you. But I'm just wondering about how unconscious relationship patterns may factor in here. Sometimes it's hard to find a connection in a relationship that feels unfamiliar, if the relationships you have known in the past where there WAS a connection have all been negative.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I'm totally behind you 100%.

[ramsickle1369]

Cyberchick... You are right... In my previous relationship I did feel a lot of passion, and yes, much of that was negative. When I met my husband the lack of that bad passion made me feel safe and secure. For a long time I waited for the good passion to show up. It never did. He's simply not passionate at all. That was a hard lesson to learn.

 

When I felt something for another man 7 years ago, I realized what was missing (the good passion). I didn't want the bad passion to return and I knew it never would with Husband. So I felt safe in knowing he'd never hurt me. I was even taking some pills to return the passion in me because I thought It was something wrong with me...

 

But then when I met this new guy, the rush of passion and chemistry and excitement was overwhelming. And I knew instantly what was wrong... And after some time away from the husband I've realized that I never really was that attracted to him... Sad to say, but it's true. It was the security that was attractive, and as I got more and more healthy and confident (I've always been a confident person), I began to need more than simple security...

 

Now, as things have progressed into somewhat sexual content with the new guy, I know what I was missing was VERY powerful and something no one should live without! Nothing has happened with this guy, but we have been playful and it's exciting... I guess we are more sexually on the same page. And I am finding out how much I actually hid and shut down while with my husband. To be blunt, I wasn't being the real me. It seems that he put me on a "wife" pedastal and anything that a red-blooded man would want to do to a woman sexually must have felt wrong for him. It's as if it was a conflict between lover and wife... To me, they are the same thing...

 

To anyone reading all this still, or to people that come along later... if you are not feeling SOME passion at some point with your lover/husband/wife/etc... something is wrong...

 

It's been a tough journey, but I'm glad I finally had the strength to let go. Its something I should have done a LONG, LONG time ago...

 

Thanks to you all!!!