Should I give up on dating apps?

[WoodenSandwich42]

So I posted this pretty much word-for-word on Reddit about two weeks ago, but haven't had a single reply yet. My hope is here someone will see it and say something. I'm not looking for pity or sympathy - I'm looking for a solution.

I'm a 25-year-old straight man who graduated from university about 3 years ago and now lives with his parents. I've been using dating apps for the last several years, specifically Tinder, Bumble and Hinge. Most conversations end after the first message, if I even match with anyone at all. When I was at university, matches were more likely than they are now. I had a couple of dates with someone at university. That person was a friend first; I didn't meet them via any app or website. They ended up not liking me back (which is heartbreaking, but they're not obligated to reciprocate feelings).

I'd go out and try meet people in bars and the like, but I can't drive and there is no public transport within reasonable walking distance of where I live. I'd ask out friends, but most women I know are dating someone or live far away. I'd ask our a coworker, but I'm currently unemployed, and even then I don't believe that dating co-workers is a good idea. I'd move, but I can't afford to. As such, the only realistic option seems to stick to dating apps, but I have no luck with them.

Any advice would be appreciated. 

[boltnrun]

Do you have plans to become employed and move out of your parents' home? Do you intend to learn to drive or do you plan to continue to rely on public transportation?

[Kwothe28]

I dunno, I believe in "bettering yourself". For example your main issue now is unemployment. So you should try to fix that. With that you could, I dunno, maybe live on your own. Or pass your driving license exam and buy a car so you could go distance with that. Even buy better clothes and look more presentable etc.

Mind you, that doesnt guarantee you success in dating. But it does give you certain "edge". Its different if you present yourself as unemployed man who lives with parents and came to a date with public transport. And different if you say how you are your own man who has a job, his own place to live and a car.

[Batya33]

Given your age I’d tackle the employment issue first. Then move out. Look to move to a city where you don’t have to drive. 

[Coily]

I'll echo what others are saying find some sort of employment. Now at 25 you don't have to jump right into your final career, but get out there and find employment. Even if it's just tutoring or something you can do remote from your parent's home. I had the driving advantage, so I became self employed after University and the economy tanked. I made it work until I got full time employment.

That said, that's not what you're here for. You need to give yourself some advantages, and employment which leads to freedom of movement will go a long way to dating someone.

To your immediate concerns of finding a date, the Apps you picked are the more widely used ones, so not a bad thing. You are experiencing what most men do on those Apps, the absolute glut of men vying for a pittance of women. It makes things feel more desperate than they are, I've lived that and it sucks.

So what else could you look at? Even if your friends aren't single, do they know you are actively looking? Have you mentioned that you are looking for someone, and asked for help? On the surface it seems embarrassing, but it's not.

Another option are meet up groups in your area, not always the easiest thing; but you can grow your social circle. While also mentioning that you are single.

I learned far too late that half of dating is marketing yourself as the best product ever, while also not false advertising. So pitch your best self in the interactions on these apps.

 

[WoodenSandwich42]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I really appreciate the advice. Saw a couple of things come up that I feel I should elaborate on/respond to.

 

I am working on learning to drive and getting a job. I don't plan on being unemployed forever and regardless of my thoughts on driving, it's kinda needed for the world we live in. I've had two, short-term jobs since finishing university and trying to find a permanent job has been quite difficult. Really, that's a whole other discussion.

I don't open by saying to people I match with that I'm unemployed or live with my parents. I feel like doing that would make my chances even worse. I don't have any job listed on my profile (which doesn't seem too out of the ordinary because not everyone does), and it never comes up in conversation because if I do get a match, I send the first message then never hear a thing. If I were asked about it, I'd probably lie - either by saying I'm still in my last job or by not mentioning I live with my parents.

To be honest, I don't know if my friends know I'm looking. I think those I speak to the most do. I've posted about being single on my personal social media before (doesn't necessarily mean anyone has seen it).

Problem is I don't really like talking about relationships with anyone, both because hearing about other people's sex and romantic lives makes me feel bad about myself to be honest, and because I'm scared that I'll end up coming across as an incel. I want to be clear that I'm not, because I accept that I'm not owed a relationship, romance, sex, dates, or anything along those lines. People are allowed to say no to me or anyone else. That worry is probably unfounded, but it lingers at the back of my mind.

 

I hope this clears some things up. Once again, thanks to everyone for their input. Feel free to keep sharing advice.

[Batya33]

Personally if I were a woman looking for a potentially serious relationship - I dated for 24 years on and off from ages 14-39 - temporary unemployment would be ok, full time student would be ok but if the profile didn't list what he did for a living I most likely wouldn't have contacted the person or responded.  If I met you in person and you were misleading at all about your employment status I wouldn't have had anything to do with you.  

So I'd get a job first - a full time job, then take major steps to living independently and  then look to date if you're looking for a woman of quality with solid values who is serious minded.  

[Kwothe28]

27 minutes ago, WoodenSandwich42 said:

I don't open by saying to people I match with that I'm unemployed or live with my parents. I feel like doing that would make my chances even worse.

Nobody opens up with that. Its just how it comes out. My friends sister went on a date with the guy that she met on a dating app. You know what she said? "He came with the bike". And she is not somebody who chases fortune. Its just that after certain age its expected from you to at least have some standard. She is 40. The guy she went on a date is around her age. So its at least expected not to come with a bike to a date. You are younger so maybe expectations would be lower. But anybody serious would at least expect you to have a job. Any job. And stuff like that comes out in a conversation. Maybe they wont ask where you live right away. But they would certanly ask what you do in life. Its easier when you are in college because they would maybe just ask what you study as they would also be mostly college people too. After that its expected to have something going on. You cant just say "Oh I am unemployed" or some vague sentence like "Currently between jobs". Because it doesnt come out good in a conversation.

[Batya33]

Just now, Kwothe28 said:

Nobody opens up with that. Its just how it comes out. My friends sister went on a date with the guy that she met on a dating app. You know what she said? "He came with the bike". And she is not somebody who chases fortune. Its just that after certain age its expected from you to at least have some standard. She is 40. The guy she went on a date is around her age. So its at least expected not to come with a bike to a date. You are younger so maybe expectations would be lower. But anybody serious would at least expect you to have a job. Any job. And stuff like that comes out in a conversation. Maybe they wont ask where you live right away. But they would certanly ask what you do in life. Its easier when you are in college because they would maybe just ask what you study as they would also be mostly college people too. After that its expected to have something going on. You cant just say "Oh I am unemployed" or some vague sentence like "Currently between jobs". Because it doesnt come out good in a conversation.

I always found out by or before the first conversation what he did for a living.  I shared what I did for a living.  Because I was looking for a potentially serious relationship what he did for a living and how he lived were highly relevant to me.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, WoodenSandwich42 said:

I don't open by saying to people I match with that I'm unemployed or live with my parents. I feel like doing that would make my chances even worse. 

Try to think ahead. Even if you are vague about your living arrangements, employment, finances and travel restrictions and someone replies, how are you going to arrange a date? 

[boltnrun]

Planning to lie to a potential date is a terrible way to start a dating relationship.  When they find out you lied they'll be more upset than if you'd just told the truth.

[ilovecats666]

I'd have some friends review your profile. 

VERY often I would skip over profiles just because they aren't very filled out, or the pics aren't great. 

How much effort you put into your profile makes a difference with women, I assure you. 

Not that it isn't still hard out there. But, I'd look into making your profile better. Good, clear pictures, filled out prompts and preferences, bio, etc. 

And secondly, I'd be holding off a little bit until you get your life together a little bit more. A job and a place will go far. 

Not driving isn't a big deal IF you have a job and a place. Uber and public transport exists. 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Planning to lie to a potential date is a terrible way to start a dating relationship.  When they find out you lied they'll be more upset than if you'd just told the truth.

Number one reason I didn't meet someone or didn't meet again -typical lies were about age/marital status/education level.  I caught one in the age lie because he bragged about how wealthy his ex wife was and from an important family.  Except he also told me their age difference and her age was easy to google....

Also my friends and I shared info about the men who lied.  

 

[Sam1986]

Tough situation as a man.  Dating apps are terrible for a majority of men to begin with (I won't go into details here, but take my word for it), and you need to sort your professional life first as it is currently preventing you from achieving financial independence, and doing you a disservice in terms of attracting women. You can of course try to do both (job hunting and actively trying to match with someone), but that carries a risk of burnout which will do you no favour. Both of these tend to take a lot of time and effort, so choose wisely on how you approach this to avoid that burnout.

[Coily]

I am going to hard disagree with the "get everything set and then seek a relationship" crowd here. There is never a right time to date, just be honest about where you are in life and where you are going. You have already covered this.

I say this as a man who lost out by focusing on getting my education, career, and fiscal house in order before seriously trying to date. Now the kind of woman I'm interested in is long taken. Sure I have stuff and things, but it's a empty home at the end of the day. That's not doom and gloom, that's me encouraging you to take the risks.

 

[boltnrun]

I think it's fine to try to date. What I think is NOT fine is intending to lie about your circumstances.

16 hours ago, WoodenSandwich42 said:

If I were asked about it, I'd probably lie - either by saying I'm still in my last job or by not mentioning I live with my parents.

This is a very bad idea. You'll get found out and I promise, the outcome would be a lot worse than if you'd simply said something like "I'm currently job hunting. I'm planning on getting my own place once that's settled."

[Sam1986]

19 minutes ago, Coily said:

I am going to hard disagree with the "get everything set and then seek a relationship" crowd here. There is never a right time to date, just be honest about where you are in life and where you are going. You have already covered this.

I say this as a man who lost out by focusing on getting my education, career, and fiscal house in order before seriously trying to date. Now the kind of woman I'm interested in is long taken. Sure I have stuff and things, but it's a empty home at the end of the day. That's not doom and gloom, that's me encouraging you to take the risks.

 

I can't speak for everyone else here, but there is dating, and there is dating through dating apps.
Both of them tend to require a lot of time.
Now obviously you can create a profile out there and just sit back to see what wanders along, but as a man that is generally not something that nets much (if any) results unless you are significantly more physically attractive (or clearly wealthy) than most other men.

As someone who has experienced the opposite here (I did in fact take risks in dating and went for both), that caused some serious burnout. Yes you can and should take risks in dating, but dating apps are a completely different ballgame than taking the occasional risk and approaching a woman you're interested in. It takes a lot of time if you are anywhere on the "average" scale, and you can expect a match rate of about 1 in a 100 swipes (assuming an app like Tinder). Then you have to factor in that probably less than a third of women reply (and that is assuminging you write a carefully written text), and that only a third of these result in an actual date (and that is assuming you are pro active and try to maintain a conversation, which is also draining when most women on dating apps are so unresponsive). Then you have to factor in that the chance of a date leading to several dates due to mutual interest and some level of chemistry (not to speak of a relationship), and you're talking about very slim odds in the long run. Can you be lucky? Of course, but I'm just talking about numerical odds here, which are relevant if you have to make long term strategies for your life.
Again I'm not saying you shouldnt necessarily take those risks, but it is important to be aware of the likely return of investment in time here. If the OP is already feeling that the job hunt is draining (which would be of no surprise, it often is when looking through ads, updating resumes and filing applications), then we're looking at two factors that can heavily influence the chance of experiencing burnout. I should know, because I burned out myself from that some 7-8 years ago.

I would of course take risks and approach interesting women, or try to meet women through friends/family/mutual interests. That takes a lot less time and might even yield similar results, compared to dating apps, thus lessening the chance of burning out.

[Coily]

2 minutes ago, Sam1986 said:

I can't speak for everyone else here, but there is dating, and there is dating through dating apps.
Both of them tend to require a lot of time.
Now obviously you can create a profile out there and just sit back to see what wanders along, but as a man that is generally not something that nets much (if any) results unless you are significantly more physically attractive (or clearly wealthy) than most other men.

As someone who has experienced the opposite here (I did in fact take risks in dating and went for both), that caused some serious burnout. Yes you can and should take risks in dating, but dating apps are a completely different ballgame than taking the occasional risk and approaching a woman you're interested in. It takes a lot of time if you are anywhere on the "average" scale, and you can expect a match rate of about 1 in a 100 swipes (assuming an app like Tinder). Then you have to factor in that probably less than a third of women reply (and that is assuminging you write a carefully written text), and that only a third of these result in an actual date. Then you have to factor in that the chance of a date leading to several dates due to mutual interest and some level of chemistry (not to speak of a relationship), and you're talking about very slim odds.
Again I'm not saying you shouldnt necessarily take those risks, but it is important to be aware of the likely return of investment in time here. If the OP is already feeling that the job hunt is draining (which would be of no surprise, it often is), then we're looking at two factors that can heavily influence the chance of experiencing burnout. I should know, because I burned out myself from that some 7-8 years ago.

I would of course take risks and approach interesting women, or try to meet women through friends/family/mutual interests. That takes a lot less time and might even yield similar results, compared to dating apps, thus lessening the chance of burning out.

Probably should read my previous post.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Coily said:

I am going to hard disagree with the "get everything set and then seek a relationship" crowd here. There is never a right time to date, just be honest about where you are in life and where you are going. You have already covered this.

I say this as a man who lost out by focusing on getting my education, career, and fiscal house in order before seriously trying to date. Now the kind of woman I'm interested in is long taken. Sure I have stuff and things, but it's a empty home at the end of the day. That's not doom and gloom, that's me encouraging you to take the risks.

 

Not everything but the basics - a job and plans to move out.  There never is a right time to date but there is a right time to seek a serious relationship -or at least all else equal some times are righter than others.  

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Sam1986 said:

I would of course take risks and approach interesting women, or try to meet women through friends/family/mutual interests. That takes a lot less time and might even yield similar results, compared to dating apps, thus lessening the chance of burning out.

For me meeting men through dating sites -met over 100 - did take a lot of time and complemented my other efforts -in person also took a lot of time.  I never dated online.  So I saved a lot of time that way - exchanged a few messages, met in person ASAP.  

[WoodenSandwich42]

Several of you mentioned this and you're all right about lying. It's not a good idea to lie about yourself when you're trying to build any kind of relationship. Suppose it's good I've never got far enough for that to come up yet. If it does, I will phrase it in a way that I'm trying to change those things (because I am).

Personally, I do feel as though more of my focus is on looking for a job and trying to move out. I find job searching even more draining and disheartening because I feel I put in all the effort to get nothing in return. The only times I really go on Tinder and the like is when I'm struggling to get to sleep. Even when I was working (which again, was only in temporary positions), my messages and matches were about the same - few and far between.

Perhaps the issue is my profile. To be honest, I have no clue what I'm doing in that regard. I just use pictures I think look good and write things I think are interesting. So I'm willing to admit mine might just be bad. I'd ask for help, but to be honest I'd rather die than ask someone for help writing it because just the thought sends a wave of embarrassment over me. I'm assuming there's advice online that's worth reading/watching, so it'll probably be better that way..? If anyone has any themselves or knows somewhere I can watch/read some, let me know. 

Maybe I should consider giving it a break for a while. The reasons why I'm even still looking is because a) I don't like feeling lonely, b) I miss physical affection and intimacy, and c) both my younger siblings are engaged and getting married in the next few years. I know the immediate response to that is to not compare myself to others. I've heard it from friends, family members, people online, and therapists. I try not to, but it's really, really, really difficult. This is something perhaps best discussed with a therapist, and I am lucky enough to be in therapy.

Once again, I'd like to thank everyone for continuing to contribute. 

[Batya33]

Is your resume letter perfect?? Read it backwards last word first to confirm no typos. Do you interview well? Do you have good questions to ask and do you research the company or organization?  Do you arrive on time and have good posture and good eye contact?  Are you qualified for the jobs ?

 

[smackie9]

What I'm going to say isn't going to be very positive, but, if you had trouble dating irl, dating apps are not going to be much help either. Dating apps are no magic bullet. Now a days, even people who have relationship experience struggle with those apps. They reek of predators, scammers, flakes and mental illness.

I recommend you focus on getting your life in order, not for those potential dates, but to bring up your self confidence. When you feel real good about yourself, it attracts people. Confidence wins the girl. 

[boltnrun]

My son has a degree but he worked at a retail store until he could find a job in his field. And even when he did find one he kept the retail job for a few months just in case. He started as a contract worker and is now being hired as a full employee. I took started at my current job as a contract worker and was hired on after a year and a half. Before that I also worked retail and did warehouse work. 

Is your lack of transportation affecting your job search? If so, you might consider that to be your highest priority if you're not living within a reasonable distance from reliable public transportation. 

A woman shouldn't be regarded as a cure for boredom or loneliness. You may be tempted to leap on the first one regardless of whether she is right for you or even a nice person. 

[jadedjadedjaded]

22 hours ago, WoodenSandwich42 said:

I don't open by saying to people I match with that I'm unemployed or live with my parents. I feel like doing that would make my chances even worse. I don't have any job listed on my profile (which doesn't seem too out of the ordinary because not everyone does), and it never comes up in conversation because if I do get a match, I send the first message then never hear a thing. If I were asked about it, I'd probably lie - either by saying I'm still in my last job or by not mentioning I live with my parents.

I'm channeling 25 year old me for some of this response. 

1. It is SO important that right now you focus on self-improvement. You are a male, which means that your biological clock is not necessarily ticking. If you want a girlfriend, a quality human to share life experiences with, you will sooner or later need to begin by being the type of man that is ready for a relationship. That means that you've sorted out your own issues. It's not enough to want a relationship, but are you where you need to be in life to contribute to one? What does that mean? Well....

• Stability... Are you financially stable, or on the way to being financially stable?
• Do you feel whole right now? As in... are you happy with where you are in life? 
• What will having a relationship right now do for you? Will it improve your life? How? 

Those are some questions to ask yourself. 

My opinion is that you should get yourself to a position where you feel happy with where you are in life. You mentioned that you would lie about if you work and clarified that you shouldn't which is good, but if you're lying its indicative that you're not proud of the reality. Be someone that you're proud of! Confidence goes a long way. You become confident by showing up for yourself and accomplishing goals. Start small. Apply to 1-2 jobs a day. Have someone look over your resume and spice it up, watch youtube videos on how to interview, and practice common questions so you can show up confident. Read 30 pages of a book a day. Listen to podcasts about self improvement...etc etc. You seem smart and self-reflective of what you need to do. Wake up, make your bed and get to business!!!