Is it me?

[Whatnow1983]

Yes, and he reassured me. She came round to meet me and I thought all was OK, I haven't seen her in about a year and he barely spoke about her unlike before. Today was the first day I've felt unsettled in that long since I got pregnant again. He's definitely made an effort himself but now I have this horrible thought he's only here because of the children 

[Cherylyn]

No, it's not you.  It's him fooling around on you meaning he is cheating emotionally or otherwise.   He's a player.   Hope you and your partner can improve your relationship greatly.  Do you have family nearby for support morally and otherwise? 

[Batya33]

No it doesn't mean he has "feelings" for her -it means that he views her in a romantic/sexual way and was coming on to her by feeding her.  I mean -it doesn't mean he has any deep emotion - he might be turned on by her and is feeding her. 

I hate to put too fine a point but -by contrast -let's say she offered to change a diaper. Her hands are occupied (and unclean) and she looks over at the cracker and cheese and says to both of you "hey this is taking awhile -I'm starved -can you just get me a piece of dried fruit/cracker?" And husband who has a sec goes over with the bite sized food and perfunctorily pops it in her mouth so she can keep diapering.  Just like he would for his wife.  Still a little weird but for a functional/practical reason.

One way I got a sense my future husband might be feeling a spark too is he insisted on sharing his dessert with me at dinner -two spoons for their famous pot de creme - you don't share like that if you're not either intimate or very close friends/family members.  He did not feed me though!

[Tinydance]

Well firstly I think you need to examine the actual relationship with your husband/partner. I'm not sure that if you were having problems that having a baby was the right way to "get the relationship" back on track. It's just putting a band aid on things but the other problems are still there underneath. Congratulations on the baby though! 

Yes what he's doing with this woman is inappropriate but the woman isn't the actual problem, your husband is. If he's becoming interested in another woman then I think you need to think about what's happening in your relationship. You could make him cut her off but then will he just start hanging out with another woman or looking at other women? He acts very disrespectful to you because you're sitting right there and he's spoon feeding another woman? What. You weren't born yesterday.

[Whatnow1983]

I brought it up with him after my friends left and he didn't have much to say bar a bit of a deer in headlights look. He said they are just friends like 20 times and there was nothing in it and she just had her hands full so he did that. I asked him if he would do that to a male friend and he said yes but I could see the coggs turning and him realising no. 

 

So I actually feel worse. Its like he's just told himself everything is fine with us now convincing himself and yesterday we both got a glimpse of how he really feels about this woman 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whatnow1983 said:

. Its like he's just told himself everything is fine with us now convincing himself.

Sorry this is happening. Try not to let gaslighting and crazy-making  rewrite your reality. 

Next time you see your physician for follow up, ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Since there are chronic unresolved issues in the relationship, it would help you to speak with someone objective and professional. 

Unfortunately you seem to be trying to convince yourself it's not that bad yet at the same time your instincts tell you how weird this is.  This is sometimes called cognitive dissonance. It's when you want to believe the lies and excuses because it's less painful.

[Whatnow1983]

I don't mean he's gaslighting me. I mean he's convincing himself. When we've talked before he's told me he's terrified if he left hed lose the children and I didn't correct him. I want them to have a stable two parent home

 

He suggested therapy and I didn't want to go. I just want everything to be fine again 

 

Thank you for your replies

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Whatnow1983 said:

He suggested therapy and I didn't want to go.

Perhaps now is the time? 

[Whatnow1983]

I don't think he'd be honest so what's the point? Really asking. He doesn't want to leave the children and we get on well. It was just seeing that yesterday that was a shock. I just don't know if he still has feelings for her and he'd never say yes as he's scared of losing the children 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Whatnow1983 said:

I don't think he'd be honest so what's the point? Really asking. He doesn't want to leave the children and we get on well. It was just seeing that yesterday that was a shock. I just don't know if he still has feelings for her and he'd never say yes as he's scared of losing the children 

Even if he doesn't have feelings for her, ask about his feelings for you - so in the future does he feel committed to you such that he would choose to treat you with loyalty and respect? Even if he decides it was just a minor passing crush since he justified playing with fire with her who's to say he won't indulge the next time he has the hots for someone?

Most married/committed people I know -if faced with a gray area situation default to behaving with loyalty to their spouse.  Often it's a knee jerk reaction -there's no question that if someone flirts with them, they do not respond in kind. Sometimes it's more of a choice.  When I was married about a year I was out with my baby in the stroller on the jogging path I went on daily. There was an older man who also was out at that time. Alone.  Early morning. 

One day we were on the same pacing so we had a conversation while we walked - it was about my moving to that city, parenting stuff (he had older kids) and basically fun chit chat.  No flirting.  Over the next week or so we had two more conversations.  No attraction, no flirting, a good way to pass the time. 

I asked my mom what she thought -was it appropriate in her opinion? She's old school.  Happily married back then for many years.  She was surprised I even asked -wasn't I allowed to meet people in my new city? Have conversations whether man or woman? It simply wasn't a question to her.

By contrast -had he asked me to have coffee after with him or suggested intentionally meeting I'd have said no to coffee and wouldn't have wanted to plan a workout together for practical reasons. But coffee- just like spoon feeding someone -to me sends the wrong signal to a new male friend - yes he knew I was married -mentioned my husband often and family.  But still.

That's what I mean -a married/committed person finds it easy enough to make those decisions and not about outright cheating but also about line crossing/things looking "bad" or off or disrespectful to the spouse.  I didn't mention this person to my husband, I stopped seeing him on the jogging path a week or so later, and I had no reason to which is the point also. 

Consider that this is not just about this woman but your husband's poor choices IMO.

[Whatnow1983]

To be honest, I think he does have feelings for her. I think he's just muting himself but you are right, his feelings for me are what matter. Very simple phrase and it hit home. Thank you 

[MissCanuck]

You two are at a crossroads. 

You are both going to need to be honest with each other about whether this relationship is viable anymore. This woman he's crushing on is a symptom, but not the problem in and of itself. The problem is that his heart is not really with you the way it should be. He was unhappy in the past, as you said, and you can see that having another baby didn't make that better. 

It's time for a difficult but necessary conversation. 

 

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, Whatnow1983 said:

To be honest, I think he does have feelings for her. I think he's just muting himself but you are right, his feelings for me are what matter. Very simple phrase and it hit home. Thank you 

Even if he does the point is what is his choice as to what to do about it -feeding her with a spoon to express his attraction is not OK IMO.

[Whatnow1983]

I don't want to not be with him. Everything the rest of the time is good or seems good. So I'm confused 

[Batya33]

Just now, Whatnow1983 said:

I don't want to not be with him. Everything the rest of the time is good or seems good. So I'm confused 

It doesn't need to be confusing.  You simply balance pros and cons.  The information right now is that he realizes he crossed the line with this woman.  He hasn't indicated that he plans to never let that happen again because he is committed to you.  You believe if he stays it is mostly for the children.  Your standard is "I don't want to not be with him" as opposed to "I want to be with him" -that is a huge difference between the former and the latter.  (I felt like the former in the relationships where I was basically settling).  

You know you are not staying because you love and are committed to him.  You would be staying so you won't be without a husband/father of your kids.  You would be staying because other than him acting out a crush as he did it is "good or seems good" -that is also your standard for staying. 

Decide whether you are ok with these standards. I had one friend tell me when I had doubts about whether to marry my then boyfriend "oh just marry him so you can have kids then you can divorce him."  I had others tell me they stayed in so so or not great marriages "for the kids" or financial reasons or health reasons that would prevent them from working/living independently. 

And I had many advise me -never settle, only marry someone you have zero doubts about ever, only marry someone who you are crazy in love with. 

And others who married a swinger and agreed to an open marriage.

You have to be real with ..... you.  No confusion.  Figure out -be bluntly honest with you -what are your standards. What are you willing to give up in order to stay married to him.  And then -acceptance without looking back -make that promise to yourself.  It's really hard but yes that simple.  I had to do that for myself several times and it's one reason I didn't marry till I was 42.

[MissCanuck]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:10 AM, Whatnow1983 said:

We've fought about her before and we were going through a bad patch, mainly down to me if I'm honest.

Can you elaborate on this? 

What was going on back then, and why did you assume having another baby would make things better? 

[Whatnow1983]

He kept telling me he was unhappy, I wasnt being very nice to him and dismissed his feelings a lot. It was long distance for the first 2 years and only living together for a year when our first child came was alot. 

I'm very much an independent person and don't like to need anyone and that comes across. I'm not a cuddler. Seeing him with her makes me uncomfortable because I can see how different he is with her, he's happier, lighter and seems to have more fun than we have ever had 

 

Batya. Wow. Thank you for that post. It was upsetting but given me a lot to think about. Ironic but the woman was talking about why she was still single and that she refuses to settle 

[Whatnow1983]

Just now, Whatnow1983 said:

He kept telling me he was unhappy, I wasnt being very nice to him and dismissed his feelings a lot. It was long distance for the first 2 years and only living together for a year when our first child came was alot. 

I'm very much an independent person and don't like to need anyone and that comes across. I'm not a cuddler. Seeing him with her makes me uncomfortable because I can see how different he is with her, he's happier, lighter and seems to have more fun than we have ever had 

 

Batya. Wow. Thank you for that post. It was upsetting but given me a lot to think about. Ironic but the woman was talking about why she was still single and that she refuses to settle 

When he was saying he was leaving I realised he was serious and I had to change then thought abother baby would complete our family 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Whatnow1983 said:

When he was saying he was leaving I realised he was serious and I had to change then thought abother baby would complete our family 

What does that mean "complete our family" - I mean what's done is done but what about the best interests of a child to be born into a stable two-parent family? I say in the best interests of your children show them a home where the two parents co-parent and live apart or ask your husband whether he's willing to do marriage counseling, commit to you and the children in a husband/father way -not just a father way.  If not then separate and co-parent so that your children won't be subjected to being there to "complete" your fantasy vision of a family/

My husband and I got back together after breaking an engagement -back together 7 years later or so.  We were long distance for much of the 3 years our second time around.  We didn't officially live together until we were married.  We had a commuter marriage for 3 months in our first year of marriage starting when our son was 2 weeks old. He didn't complete anything -he was desperately wanted by both of us, we wanted to be the best parents possible to him and we planned for him from basically the moment we got back together although we didn't try to conceive until 2.5 years after getting back together. 

It's simply not fair to burden kids with your fantasy version of a marriage and family when the reality is right now he's not all in -he has one foot out the door.  But he can bring his foot back in if he recommits and I highly suggest counseling.  

As far as the woman who was coming on to your husband she's obviously willing to settle for the scraps of a married man feeding her while she plays "momma" to your baby. Ick.

He's lighter and happier with her because it's easy and she's easy -he can feed her sweets and send her on her way.  And she strokes his ego and flatters him and doesn't ask him to unload a dishwasher or change a diaper.

[Whatnow1983]

We aren't actually married. To be honest I don't have an issue with her. She was nice and spoke to me normally and there wasn't anything she did that made me uncomfortable. My issue is with him. He's told me for 2 years ages a friend and fought for that relationship and 2 years on shes still here. Even though his behaviour with her has caused issues with us. I suppose that tells me everything I need to know 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Whatnow1983 said:

We aren't actually married. To be honest I don't have an issue with her. She was nice and spoke to me normally and there wasn't anything she did that made me uncomfortable. My issue is with him. He's told me for 2 years ages a friend and fought for that relationship and 2 years on shes still here. Even though his behaviour with her has caused issues with us. I suppose that tells me everything I need to know 

That's also good information to know. If you're fine with her opening her mouth for his spoon feeding in your home you do you. I mean that -choose your battles. Obviously if he had to "fight" to keep her as a friend you had a spidey sense or real sense there was more to it.

 

[Whatnow1983]

Oh gosh totally not fine with that. I just mean it doesn't really matter what she does or if she was stood naked in front of him. But he was the instigator yesterday and that's not acceptable or normal if he cared about me properly 

 

I did have a gut feeling, yes. I do wonder when he was going to leave me before if it was for her. He would go out of his way for her and tell me he was seeing her. He didn't hide it as far as I know but my gut always told me he had feelings for her

[Jaunty]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:33 AM, Whatnow1983 said:

Oh the rough patch was for a year after our first. He made it clear how unhappy he was so I suggested another baby to make things better 

This is confusing; your first rough patch was following the birth of your first child.  Why would having another baby make things better?  Logic would lead one to believe that another baby might just add to the problems already in place.

Honestly, "fixing" a troubled relationship is not a solid reason to bring a human life into the world.  You have two kids now, though, so you just need to focus on your relationship and how to get things on track with your family.

Now is definitely the time to get into couples counseling together.

 

[smackie9]

Just because he's not having sex with her doesn't mean he wasn't having an emotional affair with her. Clearly this is something that has always been between them. He did it in front of you because he seems to think being emotionally desiring someone that way isn't crossing any boundaries. They were probably playing out a fantasy together there.

Clearly their actions were inappropriate and should have been addressed. In your arguments with him I'm gonna take a good guess he has an excuse for everything and gaslights you, diverting the blame on you making you think you are the crazy one...am I right? Each child you have with this man assures him that you will be kept in your place and vulnerable...he knows you won't leave him. So you are only shooting yourself in the foot thinking he will improve his behaviour having more babies.

You can try couples counselling, but I have a feeling he's just gonna purposely say all the right things to manipulate the sessions like he has done throughout your relationship.

 

[Kwothe28]

10 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

This is confusing; your first rough patch was following the birth of your first child.  Why would having another baby make things better?  Logic would lead one to believe that another baby might just add to the problems already in place.

 

Actually its quite common thinking. Logically, yes, it doesnt makes sense. But still many couples believe that bringing a baby into this world would magically bond them more together, that they will bond over a baby and that they will "fix" relationship.

I have a high school buddy. He married his long term girlfriend and they had 2 kids. But she just slaves away over kids all the time while he is never home and works almost all the time. They were close to divorce but instead made another kid. It still didnt fix anything as he still works all the time while she slaves at home. But she is busy slaving over little baby girl(2 first ones are boys but they are already bigger now) so guess it keeps her busy not to think about divorce. I dont understand it either as yes, it doesnt fix anything. But some couples do try to put "band aid" on marriage with a kid. It just postpones the inevitable but they think its the solution.

Same in OPs case. She thought they will bond because they have another child together. But he is still unhappy and acts innapropriately with the first opportunity he has to make a move (yes OP "spoonfeeding" her like they are a couple is innapropriate) AKA his "friend". You cant put a "band aid" like that. If he is unhappy and wants somebody else and to leave you, he would find a way. Whether its his "friend" or some other woman he meets. His friend is just the closest one in vicinity.