30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[MysteriousTelephone]

5 hours ago, mylolita said:

Hey Mysterious!

 

Just throwing suggestions out here now like it‘s the Wild West!

 

Maybe your perception of what is a “No” and closed door from a woman might be off? I say this because when flirting and getting a date it is a back and forth between the species, shall we say! 
 

For example, I’m 32, I’ve been with my husband for 15 years, we have 3 kids together. I met him when I was 18 and he was 27. I’d never had a boyfriend or even kissed anyone! I worked during college on a night at a cocktail bar. As soon as I saw him, honestly, lightening struck. But! This is how his chatting up of me roughly went (he was, drunk in some way as well by the way).

 

Him: “Hey! I love your hair.”

 

Me: “Thanks! Thank you. What can I get you?” 
 

Him: “No… I really like your hair. You‘re beautiful.”

 

Me: I don’t know what to do with myself. I ask him again what he wants. He says rum and Coke.

 

He spends the rest of the night at the other end of the bar only ordering drinks with me and staring at me the whole time. I keep going back into the store room to escape, it’s intense. I’m really attracted to him but I don’t know what to do. I even say to a friend working behind the bar, “Oh my God! You seen that blonde guy? He won’t stop staring!”

 

He comes up again, 5th time.

 

Him: “I’d love to get a drink with you. Do you have Facebook? Can I have your Facebook?”

 

Me: “I don’t have Facebook! I have MySpace! Facebook is for old people 😉”

 

Him: Laughing. “Okay okay, what’s your name? What’s your MySpace? Let me take you out.”

 

We chatted a bit more. He was a drummer in a band. Some jokes flew, more flirting, then I eventually gave him my name and MySpace instead of phone number. When I got home there was this message waiting for me full of romance and again asking for a date.

 

I am curious, at what point in that conversation might you have given up? The crazy thing is I was MAD about him as soon as I laid eyes on him! But, it is a woman’s prerogative to not normally throw herself straight away at a guy and shout from the hills yes!

 

Would you have turned around when I just replied thanks? Or went back into the store room? Would you have stayed till the lights went up? What I am trying to work out is, my husband saw me and was blown over. He said he even knew he wanted to marry me. I know that sounds insanely corny but, I wasn’t just another girl for a hook up, and he had been having plenty plus near that time had also a regular friend with benefits. 
 

There is naturally a back and forth between men and women like that which, if you are maybe easily deterred or very polite, you can actually miss the natural chase and tease chatting someone up involves!

 

x

 

I'm polite, but I'm not oblivious to social cues. What I'm reading from that story is: you found an attractive man looking at you, he's eyeing you up all night, he's hot and in a band, you give him your Myspace, now you're married. That's great, I'm right behind that.

Now to flip it, what if you weren't bowled over by him, what if he looked and sounded like Gilbert Gotfried? Would his persistence be 'cute' and 'charming', or would he be just a creep who harassed you that night?

I'm not saying I'm giving up easy at every interaction, but you can tell when someone's into you, and when someone's clearly being not interested in the conversation.

3 hours ago, Tinydance said:

OK so let's just say really hypothetically if you're unattractive in the face (not body though). You obviously want to find a girlfriend. So I think you need some kind of new plan. Maybe trying to go for women who aren't attractive themselves? They might be happy you asked them out because they don't really get attention from guys. 

At the end of the day I don't think looks are really number one and you just need to find a woman you get along really well with and you enjoy being with each other. Women want to find someone too, even unattractive women. I'm not saying you should force yourself to be with someone you don't like but maybe try to give as many women a chance as possible.

I mean, in my history I wouldn't say I have a particular 'type' of woman that I look for, all the people that I have liked have been very different. Some tall, short, fat, thin, some of them none of my friends could figure out why I liked them. I assure you, I'm not out only looking for models.

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You might consider toning down the snark, it's not a good look to imply that everyone else who's a loser gets all the women.

Again, fitness is good, but you claim it's other things which of course can be remedied by a physical evaluation of whatever it is. This includes better dentition, better skin, better facial hair, improvement of any facial structural abnormalities, an optician if you need corrective lenses, a good barber and even getting some stuff done like a manicure or salon treatments for a more refined look.

It's not all about the build. It's not like the 70s movie "Saturday Night Fever", where it's clubs and dancing and  flexing and picking up women .

Not driving/owning a car is a huge red flag for women. So rather than sarcasm and imagined defects, try to work on the real issues.

Sure, I'm aware of a lot of things that can be improved. I'm clean shaven, my skin is decent, haircut is fine, I wear corrective lenses. I really have gone through this to try to improve anything I can.

Have addressed the driving thing below, rather than typing it twice.

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

I actually agree with Wiseman here - a 30 year old male who can’t drive? It is a little odd. And also, most women around this age are looking to settle. That means, a man having a stable, decently paid profession, owning their own home ideally and driving, owning a car.

 

I realise you are saying you don’t even get to the discussing life and what you do stage with women but to nit pick, these things are generally important to women, especially women 30 plus. I don’t want to say Y’know, all women want a millionaire but, just having the basics together makes a massive difference. Still being in full time study at this age might put women who want serious commitment off as well, I realise this will be a fantastic profession once you are finished but sometimes women don’t want a work in progress. It’s quite a harsh and judgemental world out there in the dating game sometimes. I don’t want to sound bleak! These are things that run through a lot of women’s minds is all I am saying Mysterious.

 

x

I would disagree at this point. If I were talking to women and they found my lack of driver's license to be an issue, I'd have to agree with you, but I'll be honest it's not something that gets asked of me. Like I said, if women want nothing to do with you in the first place, they're not going to waste time asking how many kids you want, what car you drive and what your mortgage rates are. That's the boat I find myself in.

As for me not driving, it's surprisingly common in the UK if you live in a big city. My work & friends are all close by, if I go out I'll often have a drink, parking is a nightmare, in fact the local government has been making efforts over the last 15 years to pedestrianise the whole city centre. At a certain point it's more hassle than it's worth for me; usually the people with cars are ones who's job requires it, or they have a family they need to transport. I owned a motorbike as a youth because I needed transport, but since coming here I found I never really used it.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

As for me not driving, it's surprisingly common in the UK if you live in a big city. My work & friends are all close by, if I go out I'll often have a drink, parking is a nightmare, in fact the local government has been making efforts over the last 15 years to pedestrianise the whole city centre. At a certain point it's more hassle than it's worth for me; usually the people with cars are ones who's job requires it, or they have a family they need to transport. I owned a motorbike as a youth because I needed transport, but since coming here I found I never really used it.

I got my license at age 49.  I don't drive still LOL and I'm 56. I grew up in a city like yours. My husband had a license from the time of college and when we first dated and even the next time it didn't matter to me at all.  Walking and public transportation and occasional taxi.  Having a car in our city would have been more trouble than it was worth.  I mean sometimes we got the car from his parents' house and went on trips, on dates etc but it wasn't a regular part of our lives at all or needed.  My mother is 87 and never drove and until a few years ago used public transport.  Still lives in the big city I grew up in.  i agree it depends. 

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

If I were talking to women and they found my lack of driver's license to be an issue, it's not something that gets asked of me

Because at 30, they assume you have a driver's license, even if owning a car is unnecessary living in the city center.

Is there a reason you won't/can't at least get a driver's license? Women may assume you have financial, alcohol or legal issues if you can't get a license.

It will come up if you ask women out and they have to chauffeur you around. That's a huge turn off. You can't even rent a car without a license, even a weekend trip would fall on her shoulders..

Other than that you claim your appearance, apt, location, profession, etc. is fine, so what exactly is the real issue?

[Kwothe28]

I think its an OK point about having a car. Because, believe it or not, it helps. I live in a small city. My job is remote mostly and until recently didnt see the need to have a drivers license and have a car. I did pass my driverse license exam and in the process of buying a car. Cars in general are a big strain on a budget sometimes, its like having one more family member. Especially at todays gas prices. Not to mention fixes if needed, technical check ups and rest. Drivers plates alone are 200+ dollars yearly here.

But, in terms of dating that actually gets you an additional note. You show that you can handle all that financially and that you have mobility. She wants you to drive her home instead of spending money on cab? No problem, you got her covered. You want to go to weekend getaway? No problem, reserve some nice rural place, hope in car and go. Its an advantage. I was watching some youtube video where a girl was asking other girls about dating. One straight up said that she hooked up with her current boyfriend because he has a car. I am not saying OP should aim at that kind of girls, just that car is definitely advantage even in dating. Even in OPs famous standard known as "Tinder", I once read a bio that says "If you dont have a car swipe left". So, its an OK point. Dont think that is why OP cant find a relationship, just that car would be advantage.

[Batya33]

I never thought to ask when I dated whether he had a license -never occurred to me.  Financial stability was important.  Typically I assumed the man did because even in our city a lot of people got their license in high school (I tried in college and failed and gave up).  But it had no relevance to my life or dating standards.

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Out of interest, how old are you? You're from the UK right?

I won't argue against the idea that driving is a useful skill, and for many people it's essential. In my experience though I've not seen it viewed as an essential part of being an adult. Based on what people I know are like, it's less common for people to just learn to drive as soon as they turn 17, instead they learn to drive when they reach a point in life where driving would be useful... Usually either because a specific career requires it or just to broaden their career options, enable them to apply for jobs that aren't on a bus route. Can't say I've experienced anyone not knowing how to drive being met with raised eyebrows.

Where I grew up, an even smaller town than where I live now, around the turn of the millennium, the majority of my year at school learned how to drive. More of a rural area but still not like the proper countryside. Our friends and the places we liked to go were scattered between three or four small towns so there was good reason to drive. Even then though, very few of us actually owned a car. The college I went to had a student car park which had space for I think maybe a dozen cars, that's all that was needed.

Anyway my point was more that after a couple of people had suggested to the OP that not being able to drive was a big red flag when dating, I wanted to add my experience so it didn't look like a consensus opinion, and say it very much depends on where you live and how old you are.

Hi Carnartic!

 

Yaaa-ha! UK all my life, all my family are from the UK, well, direct family anyway!  
 

I’m 32! Did everything fairly fast in life, straight to the point! Met my husband at 18, left home at 18, been with him ever since, 15 years later we have 3 kids under 4 years old. Bought our first house when I was 25, rocketed straight into the luxury market it definitely wasn’t a tiny starter home. Feel like I’ve worked a trillion jobs from estate agent, legal Secretary, cocktail waitress, retail staff, window dresser, waitress, lap dancer! Cleaner! Total petrol head - I couldn’t imagine not driving! Always drove  high performance cars until the third bambino came along!

 

I may be wrong, but I feel most decent jobs require a drivers license here in the UK, and to not be able to drive is a bit like when a son lives at home way past 25. I may be wrong! 

When you’re 16 and dating guys it’s out there and unrealistic to expect them to have a house, a car, a full time job. When men get to 30 plus, it’s very realistic and reasonable as a woman to come to expect this, especially if you yourself are established which, so many women are these days, it’s true. 
 

I mean, it’s so useful. When I was pregnant I either drove myself or my husband drove me to the hospital. I have had a few emergencies where I have needed to jump in the car.

 

I guess for me, being able to drive and own a car is one of those adult signs of self sufficiency and independence.

 

My generation have started learning to drive later, much later, and owning a house later, getting married later and having children later. Everything from my generation on seems to be later as standard. I’m not convinced this is a good thing always, but I know I am in the minority!

 

x

[MysteriousTelephone]

44 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Because at 30, they assume you have a driver's license, even if owning a car is unnecessary living in the city center.

Is there a reason you won't/can't at least get a driver's license? Women may assume you have financial, alcohol or legal issues if you can't get a license.

It will come up if you ask women out and they have to chauffeur you around. That's a huge turn off. You can't even rent a car without a license, even a weekend trip would fall on her shoulders..

Other than that you claim your appearance, apt, location, profession, etc. is fine, so what exactly is the real issue?

So it's something everyone assumes I have, yet also the reason they won't date me, even though I don't get the chance to correct them?

I'm afraid I don't follow.

43 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I think its an OK point about having a car. Because, believe it or not, it helps. I live in a small city. My job is remote mostly and until recently didnt see the need to have a drivers license and have a car. I did pass my driverse license exam and in the process of buying a car. Cars in general are a big strain on a budget sometimes, its like having one more family member. Especially at todays gas prices. Not to mention fixes if needed, technical check ups and rest. Drivers plates alone are 200+ dollars yearly here.

But, in terms of dating that actually gets you an additional note. You show that you can handle all that financially and that you have mobility. She wants you to drive her home instead of spending money on cab? No problem, you got her covered. You want to go to weekend getaway? No problem, reserve some nice rural place, hope in car and go. Its an advantage. I was watching some youtube video where a girl was asking other girls about dating. One straight up said that she hooked up with her current boyfriend because he has a car. I am not saying OP should aim at that kind of girls, just that car is definitely advantage even in dating. Even in OPs famous standard known as "Tinder", I once read a bio that says "If you dont have a car swipe left". So, its an OK point. Dont think that is why OP cant find a relationship, just that car would be advantage.

I get it, in a long term situation it's absolutely a positive, even a necessity when you get to moving house, buying furniture, kids etc. At this stage in my life, when I'm only responsible for myself, and a week's food shop can fit into a backpack, I really have had no need to pay hundreds a month to... be sober at parties. I'm not against driving, it's just not been something I need to do at this point.

So you're saying I should re-start Tinder dating, but in the 'About Me' section, I should put: 5 door, low mileage, no previous owners?

[mylolita]

And Mysterious!
 

I understand! My husband is typically good looking, very confident, very masculine (was a boxer as well at this point). He’s had absolutely no trouble with women ever. He’s also a sales man and owned his own business so has a bit of gift of the gab as well.

 

My point is, most decent women respect the balls it takes to outright ask you out, whether you’re hot or not. 
 

I’ve had plenty of guys ask me out and a separate marriage proposal that wasn’t from my now husband and each time I knew what a move it was. It takes courage and I always admire and respect that.

 

I have kind of been on the other side of this in a weird way, and faces rejection weekly as part of my job! I was a lap dancer from 18-21 and plenty of guys wouldn’t want a dance. It was my job to entice them. You just brush it off. I believe all social interaction, especially asking the opposite sex out, just gets easier and better with practice. Almost like the only cure for it is on the field, real time, out there! That’s just my personal experience. You get better and more confident and comfortable the more social situations you throw yourself into. Yes it depends on your personality but anyone and everyone benefits from sheer practice of anything, social I think is included in this! 
 

x

[mylolita]

6 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

So it's something everyone assumes I have, yet also the reason they won't date me, even though I don't get the chance to correct them?

I'm afraid I don't follow.

I get it, in a long term situation it's absolutely a positive, even a necessity when you get to moving house, buying furniture, kids etc. At this stage in my life, when I'm only responsible for myself, and a week's food shop can fit into a backpack, I really have had no need to pay hundreds a month to... be sober at parties. I'm not against driving, it's just not been something I need to do at this point.

So you're saying I should re-start Tinder dating, but in the 'About Me' section, I should put: 5 door, low mileage, no previous owners?

Yes. In the movies, does Tom Cruise step down from the bus stop, or does he roll up in his own ride? 
 

I hate to say it - for me, it would be a big negative, but easily fixed! There are people who can’t spell Bob backwards who pass their drivers test first time!

 

x

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

So you're saying I should re-start Tinder dating, but in the 'About Me' section, I should put: 5 door, low mileage, no previous owners?

Get off free and hookup apps altogether. Get on some quality and paid apps. Leave snark and sarcasm off a profile. It sounds bitter or arrogant. Simply have a few good pics (not selfies or gym pics) and a well written, inviting profile detailing your basics (area, age, profession, etc.) and highlighting some of your interests. People are offering sound advice but debating and sarcasm comes across as being embittered, so hopefully that's not what women are picking up on. Is there an objection to getting a license? Not having a car in a metro area is common/fine but no license at 30 sort of stands out and it will be an issue.

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I guess for me, being able to drive and own a car is one of those adult signs of self sufficiency and independence.

At age 11 I was taking public transportation on my own and at age 14 at night on my own.  I did a summer internship the summer I turned 15 where I commuted by train back and forth by myself while my suburban teen counterparts were being driven around by mommy and daddy.  I had a social life at night where we took trains and buses starting at age 15. 

My suburban counterparts got drivers licenses in high school and my city friends mostly did not.  We were a one car  family.  My mom married at 21 and is 87 and never learned to drive.  My dad drove but my family quite often walked/took public transport.  Taxis very very rarely.  We simply didn't spend our $ that way.  

When I dated in my mid-to late 20s and beyond my expectations were that the guy would have full time employment if he wasn't full time in grad/medical/law school, live on his own or be about to, be financially stable and independent.  And be comfortable taking public transportation (even if I dated a wealthy guy I preferred not to be sitting in taxis - a number of guys I dated when I still lived right outside the city would put me in a taxi after a date and offer me $ for the fare -or even in the city if it was very late and he couldn't walk me home). 

I did not like getting in a man's car if I didn't know him at least after a few dates so public transport was a better option for sure.  

I plan on trying to drive again.  I practiced after I got my license for a few years with husband in the car.  I drove all by myself two times after I got my license at age 49.  I do not depend on my husband to drive me places; he does drive my son at times for activities but not regularly.  When I was home for 7 years I never took my son in a car service.  We walked, took public transport and very occasionally a friend would pick us up -but that was so very rare.  I got him to school by walking or a short bus ride until he was 5 and took the school bus. 

And we now live in a city where like everyone has a car.  I am very independent and walk to all shopping and do all the shopping -my husband used to drive me and or pick me up occasionally but it's more of a pain like if he's late and our ice cream is melting!!

I really dislike this whole driver license link to independence.  Depends where you live.  I have suburban friends who would rather sit in their cars for upwards of an hour in traffic to go to jury duty for example than take a short subway ride, walk a few blocks.  My other friend had to go with her 25 year old daughter to jury duty on a subway as her daughter wasn't familiar enough with which train to take.  That's "independent?"

[Kwothe28]

13 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

So you're saying I should re-start Tinder dating, but in the 'About Me' section, I should put: 5 door, low mileage, no previous owners?

I chuckled lol

Just saying it would maybe be advantageus even in dating. Again, dont go to Tinder, its clearly detrimental for you.

Also, in fairness, I saw some bios that say "No car or gym pics". Because apparently lots of guys use those and some see it as "bragging". 

 

[Batya33]

12 minutes ago, mylolita said:

My point is, most decent women respect the balls it takes to outright ask you out, whether you’re hot or not. 
 

I’ve had plenty of guys ask me out and a separate marriage proposal that wasn’t from my now husband and each time I knew what a move it was. It takes courage and I always admire and respect that.

 

I personally didn't find it that big of a deal to ask men out but I also know that maybe it's "easier" because maybe -oddly? -women get more "credit" for asking a man out on a date.  Here's what I found incredibly scary -I was dating a man I was over the moon about.  He made it clear he wasn't happy to wait longer to have sex -we'd been dating 6 weeks. He said he'd be "monogamous" but still wanted to meet women "for coffee."  I left his apartment that night.  Thought it over. 

Three days later I got dressed up more professional -to feel "professional" -sat on his couch with him sitting apart.  I said "I am not comfortable with sex unless we are exclusive and I am fine if you want to stop dating because of it"  On our second date when we'd made out some I'd told him "I want you to know -flings are not my style and are not my style with you" (I'd known him for about a year and he was a self-described reformed player).

That was scary.  That was me being direct about my  standards to a man I was infatuated with.  Friendship caught on fire.  But I rehearsed it in my head, I sat there and said it with no apology or back story.  I felt awesome.  He said yes. He was very obviously surprised at how direct I was. 

Looking back I should have said nothing and walked away.  He said yes but obviously his heart was not in it.  And it never really was -he ended things 3 months later or so.  Married a prettier lady he started dating 6 months later.  But the positive part was - I reaffirmed my worth.  I spoke simply and directly to him.  Didn't budge from my standards.

OP - do that.  Find a way to show up with reasonable confidence and tell the woman you are interested in you'd like to take her out on a date - tell her with confidence.  Tell her assuming that she will say yes or that if she says no it's no reflection on you, your looks, your whatever. 

Because if  you show up with approachable body language, positive energy AND with a quiet confidence you will know and she will know that even if you're not a match you respect yourself.  And then she might want to introduce you to a friend you might click with.  That's how it works IMO.

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Get off free and hookup apps altogether. Get on some quality and paid apps. Leave snark and sarcasm off a profile. It sounds bitter or arrogant. Simply have a few good pics (not selfies or gym pics) and a well written, inviting profile detailing your basics (area, age, profession, etc.) and highlighting some of your interests. People are offering sound advice but debating and sarcasm comes across as being embittered, so hopefully that's not what women are picking up on. Is there an objection to getting a license? Not having a car in a metro area is common/fine but no license at 30 sort of stands out and it will be an issue.

Yes paid and decent sites! Tinder is not it.

[boltnrun]

I'm sure you're getting frustrated. People aren't "getting it". They keep saying, tell women this or that. Use that approach! You need to have a license and have a car! But what I see you saying is, you're not even getting to the point where jobs or cars or finances are being discussed. You aren't getting past a swipe or a "hello".

And to me that is key. Why you're not getting too much past "hello".

I think Tinder is a self esteem crusher and I won't use it so I won't try to advise you on that except to say, don't use it! Paid actual dating sites seem like a better option. 

My BIL met his wife when he was 35. He lived with his mom, she cut his hair for him (and God bless her but it looked awful!), he's literally 6'3" and 140 pounds and strongly resembles a cartoon character. But he met his adorable wife and they have three children and are very happy. He met her on some gaming chat platform. They communicated for a while, arranged to meet and there you go. She didn't mind his appearance or that he lived with his mom. It just took him longer than average to meet the right woman probably because of those things. But he did find her.

I hope his story gives you hope. 

[Batya33]

I love everything about Boltnrun's post because it covers all the bases and I find the example perfect -because it doesn't read like some outlier or like "ok so big deal this is one person this happened to" -I can see this being generally true and I love the image of cartoon character because this man's wife either didn't care or loved that look.  Cover for every pot.  There's a lot to learn from that example, to apply far more broadly.

(Also made me think about "you had me at hello")

[boltnrun]

Thanks @Batya33

I also want to add, it's not vitally important that the two people agree on everything. My BIL is a staunch carnivore and loves tacos and fried chicken. His wife is a strict vegetarian. He's a practicing Catholic. She's agnostic. And yet they found common ground, enough to date, fall in love and marry.

I love their story because it's so hopeful.

[waffle]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

Yes paid and decent sites!

Then he'll be broke AND dateless.  😐 

[DarkCh0c0]

33 minutes ago, waffle said:

Then he'll be broke AND dateless.  😐 

If he goes broke by subscribing on a paid dating website, then he's got some serious financial issues and he's not in a position to date now.

[MysteriousTelephone]

5 hours ago, mylolita said:

I have kind of been on the other side of this in a weird way, and faces rejection weekly as part of my job! I was a lap dancer from 18-21 and plenty of guys wouldn’t want a dance. It was my job to entice them. You just brush it off. I believe all social interaction, especially asking the opposite sex out, just gets easier and better with practice. Almost like the only cure for it is on the field, real time, out there! That’s just my personal experience. You get better and more confident and comfortable the more social situations you throw yourself into. Yes it depends on your personality but anyone and everyone benefits from sheer practice of anything, social I think is included in this! 

Again, I have plenty of social interaction, I'm out 3-5 times a week conversing with complete strangers, or in dance class where I know what I'm doing. It's not practice socialising that I lack, I'm very comfortable in these situations.

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Get off free and hookup apps altogether. Get on some quality and paid apps. Leave snark and sarcasm off a profile. It sounds bitter or arrogant. Simply have a few good pics (not selfies or gym pics) and a well written, inviting profile detailing your basics (area, age, profession, etc.) and highlighting some of your interests. People are offering sound advice but debating and sarcasm comes across as being embittered, so hopefully that's not what women are picking up on. Is there an objection to getting a license? Not having a car in a metro area is common/fine but no license at 30 sort of stands out and it will be an issue.

You seem really annoyed that I use sarcasm and humour in my replies, that is because that while the majority of people seem to be suggesting things they think may be helpful, others come out with things such as "Have you tried asking them out?", like I'm sitting here wondering why I didn't think of that. I really made every effort to describe my situation to highlight that I'm engaged in many social activities that revolve around meeting new people, yet I still get messages such as "Have you tried meeting new people?"

Your most recent suggestion is that I... upload a few decent pics and a bio describing my hobbies, that's literally what I did in 2014. THAT'S why I'm coming across as sarcastic to you. My problem is not that I don't understand how online dating works.

You have asserted that everyone will assume I can drive because I'm 30, but also that me not driving is the reason I can't get a date: which makes no sense because according to you, they will naturally assume I can. Your two statements contradict each other. Like I said, if I was finding that it was becoming an issue as people got to know me, I'd have to concede the point, but seeing as I can't get past "hello", my transportation requirements are at the back of the line.

The next time I'm in a club and a woman points to me and mouths to her friend "Eww, no!", I must realise that she's really saying "I ain't ridin' his stick until I know he can drive stick, Becky!" because apparently that's my issue.

5 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I chuckled lol

Just saying it would maybe be advantageus even in dating. Again, dont go to Tinder, its clearly detrimental for you.

Also, in fairness, I saw some bios that say "No car or gym pics". Because apparently lots of guys use those and some see it as "bragging". 

 

This may be a generational thing, I don't know your age, but if you're 22 and looking to date people of a similar age, Tinder really is the most popular app, and that was me. Even though the years have passed and my dating age has skewed older, it is still the 'default' for my generation looking to date. That's not to say it's the only site I've ever used, I've been through them all: eharmony, OKcupid, Bumble, Match, you name it, it is the same result.

And it's true, I do see car pics as fairly douchey, same with gym pics. I have a couple pics of me playing sport, as I think it shows that I have outdoor hobbies and general fitness, but I would never throw up a gym mirror selfie. So, from my profile, there would be no indication as to weather I drive or not, unless I make the un-subtle move of putting "enjoys driving to the coast" in my list of hobbies, just to shout to the world "Hello ladies, I am mobile!"

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

OP - do that.  Find a way to show up with reasonable confidence and tell the woman you are interested in you'd like to take her out on a date - tell her with confidence.  Tell her assuming that she will say yes or that if she says no it's no reflection on you, your looks, your whatever. 

Because if  you show up with approachable body language, positive energy AND with a quiet confidence you will know and she will know that even if you're not a match you respect yourself.  And then she might want to introduce you to a friend you might click with.  That's how it works IMO.

I mean, you can only take my word for this, but honestly I do just that. Weather it's dancing, or the gym, or social activities, it's always something that I'm good at, therefore have no issues with confidence etc. My body language is fine, I have absolutely no problems striking conversation with strangers, and do so on an almost daily basis. That may have been how it worked for you, and I'm happy to take your word on that, but I need you to take my word on this as my lived experience.

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I'm sure you're getting frustrated. People aren't "getting it". They keep saying, tell women this or that. Use that approach! You need to have a license and have a car! But what I see you saying is, you're not even getting to the point where jobs or cars or finances are being discussed. You aren't getting past a swipe or a "hello".

And to me that is key. Why you're not getting too much past "hello".

Thank you, you seem to be the only one getting this at the moment.

At this point, it does seem that all points lead to the hypothesis that I'm ugly. Really, if I can't get a date, get turned down before I've even opened my mouth, or just from photos, and get called ugly, at what point do we stop pointing to the magic power of self belief and accept something as a fact, or at least a consensus majority?

[boltnrun]

8 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

At this point, it does seem that all points lead to the hypothesis that I'm ugly. Really, if I can't get a date, get turned down before I've even opened my mouth, or just from photos, and get called ugly, at what point do we stop pointing to the magic power of self belief and accept something as a fact, or at least a consensus majority?

But now we come back to, if being "ugly" prevents anyone from getting a date or a relationship how do you explain the tens of thousands of "ugly" people who are in successful love relationships? Some women had to have decided "ugly" wasn't a turnoff, right?

I told you the story of my BIL. I would never be so cruel as to describe him as "ugly" because to me ugly defines character, not appearance. I will say he's physically unattractive to the general female population. And yet...well, I won't write his story again.

That's why I propose ditching Tinder which is completely looks oriented. Other sites are as well, but Tinder is designed to be looks focused. I can't imagine how I'd feel being on that site and never getting any swipes (which, because I'm a middle aged woman, is highly likely).

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

upload a few decent pics and a bio describing my hobbies, that's literally what I did in 2014. THAT'S why I'm coming across as sarcastic to you.

Now one knows what you were doing 8 years ago. Just that you use tinder now and feel that you're not having any luck.

[DarkCh0c0]

Okay. You need professional help (yes, I hint again at a relationships/dating coach). I don't know what else you expected from an online forum. This has gone beyond our paycheck and we don't know you personally enough to help out.

[mylolita]

I agree with most people that the right woman will come along if you keep attending events, putting yourself out there and the main thing - asking women out! It’s a numbers game, sure thing. You are more likely to get a yes if you ask 10 women out in a week than if you ask 1 woman out in a month. You just never know as well - never rule a woman out because you think she might not be interested or “out of your league” because you really never know!

 

Of course, having a license, a car, owning a home, having a decently paid profession - this all adds to your chances of finding someone easier. It would be unrealistic to say it wouldn’t. It will definitely help if you want to attract a long term partner, or future wife. 
 

Of course we hear you when you say you are not getting past hi - but I find that hard to believe every single time? They won’t entertain any kind of flirting or conversation? Just turn you straight away? 
 

I can only think maybe you hardly ask women out much, therefore rejection is much more likely, or that you maybe misinterpret women’s reactions as no interest but really they might be but they want more conversation, are maybe shy themselves or want to hear more from you? 
 

People find love all the time later in life - people can get married at 70! We all know this. I guess, we can only go off what we read and make suggestions we think might help.

 

The likelihood is, you will find someone OP, and you will look back and wonder why you ever spent time thinking about the whys and how’s! 
 

I mentioned this thread to my husband. If you want another man’s perspective who has never had trouble in this department, I thought it was curious what he said. He told me, “Tell him to get used to rejection. That’s what being a guy is about. And just ask ask ask away. The more women you ask, the more likely you are to get a date. He also said go for who you like - even if you think they might be “too good” for you. He said you might be surprised.”

 

x
 

 

[mylolita]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

But now we come back to, if being "ugly" prevents anyone from getting a date or a relationship how do you explain the tens of thousands of "ugly" people who are in successful love relationships? Some women had to have decided "ugly" wasn't a turnoff, right?

I told you the story of my BIL. I would never be so cruel as to describe him as "ugly" because to me ugly defines character, not appearance. I will say he's physically unattractive to the general female population. And yet...well, I won't write his story again.

That's why I propose ditching Tinder which is completely looks oriented. Other sites are as well, but Tinder is designed to be looks focused. I can't imagine how I'd feel being on that site and never getting any swipes (which, because I'm a middle aged woman, is highly likely).

I totally agree with Bolt regarding throwing Tinder in the bin.

 

Seems like a cruel way to break down peoples self esteem.
 

x