New Relationship (kinda)

[thelogride]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

What do you do when you have these thoughts? Do you just sit and wallow in them or do you actively do something to redirect your thoughts?

Look into CBT. It works to basically replace rumination and circular thoughts. But you have to actively choose to do it. It's not going to just go away.

I do probably the most unhealthy thing possible and sit and wallow in them and let it consume me. It’s just a cycle on a loop and it’s annoying, and I know it’s not healthy or good for me in any way shape or form but it’s so hard to break. Maybe finding a therapist would be a start. I went to therapy before and it helped but as soon as I felt better I stopped going. Probably wasn’t smart. 

[boltnrun]

18 minutes ago, thelogride said:

I went to therapy before and it helped but as soon as I felt better I stopped going.

Were you given tools or suggestions on how to deal with your rumination and obsessive looping thoughts? If so, it's time to use them. You can also revisit therapy since it worked for you before.

But remember, it's like eating when you're hungry. You don't eat one time and then never need to eat again. You have to find ways to deal with your issues that work and make sure to keep using those tools.

And finally, remember anything worth doing is hard. Whether you're an athlete training for a competition or you have a big exam coming up or there's a job you really want. You do the hard work because the results are worth it.

[wealthydior]

22 hours ago, Batya33 said:

It doesn't sound like she misses him now or would miss him - she told him exactly where she stands, again.  She wants to make sure things are not awkward since they have mutual friends.  She's looking out for her own interests which is a smart thing to do when someone is pursuing you this much and you do not want to lead the person on.

She could easily find another group or another activity yet she is still down for their so called “double date” activity which is going to a lake. Then it means that she is using him or she wants to do some activities with him. I don’t want to think that she is using him so I assumed it’s the second one.

Things can change by the way, I don’t understand how can you say “she wouldn’t miss him.” I didn’t say that she would miss him romantically but again missing doesn’t always have to be romantic.

Her behaviour is confusing anyways I think you should just wait for your activities. Chasing after someone is very tiring, things like this are tiring.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, wealthydior said:

She could easily find another group or another activity yet she is still down for their so called “double date” activity which is going to a lake. Then it means that she is using him or she wants to do some activities with him. I don’t want to think that she is using him so I assumed it’s the second one.

Things can change by the way, I don’t understand how can you say “she wouldn’t miss him.” I didn’t say that she would miss him romantically but again missing doesn’t always have to be romantic.

Her behaviour is confusing anyways I think you should just wait for your activities. Chasing after someone is very tiring, things like this are tiring.

I don't agree that there is any confusion as to whether she wants to date him. She doesn't. She may like the male attention for her ego or enjoy flirting with him, she may like the other people who are going and doesn't want to miss out, etc.  I would advise he go only if he honestly can answer this question -will he be comfortable if she brings a guy she is dating, if she flirts with other men or chats about guys she is interested in dating.  If not he should not subject himself to this get together.

[boltnrun]

My friend who wanted to date me is an attractive guy. He's a great guy, lots of fun, great personality, people love him, he's loyal and is protective of me and of all his friends and I feel any woman would be lucky to date him. But even with all that I don't want to date him. I can objectively see he's an attractive guy, he has pretty blue eyes, he's tall, his hair is a nice kind of burnished copper color. But I am not attracted to him. I'm just not. I never will be no matter what he does to try to "show" me.

I can't even say why. I'm just not interested in dating him.

Oh, and yes, I'd told him he's a great guy, an attractive guy and that any woman would be lucky to date him. It didn't mean that I wanted to date him and I'm sorry if he took it that way.

Just an example of how this sometimes happens.

[thelogride]

2 hours ago, wealthydior said:

She could easily find another group or another activity yet she is still down for their so called “double date” activity which is going to a lake. Then it means that she is using him or she wants to do some activities with him. I don’t want to think that she is using him so I assumed it’s the second one.

Things can change by the way, I don’t understand how can you say “she wouldn’t miss him.” I didn’t say that she would miss him romantically but again missing doesn’t always have to be romantic.

Her behaviour is confusing anyways I think you should just wait for your activities. Chasing after someone is very tiring, things like this are tiring.

This is probably the post that relates the most, and not because it’s “what I would want to hear.” Yes, her behavior is confusing. Being fresh off a serious relationship she said right away she wasn’t ready for a serious relationship and I guess that’s my fault for “pushing” for one. She wasn’t ready, and she said that. She said she liked me but just isn’t in the mental state to try anything, which I understand because I have been in that same spot. She still wants to go to the lake this summer knowing I’m there. Our mutual friends are hopeful that maybe thing will change by then, and her best friend (one of the mutual friends) says that she raved about me and love talking to me and thinks I’m so fun to be around. All this hype yet still says she can’t continue to pursue something serious and romantic because she’s just not ready yet. So maybe something will change? Maybe so but maybe not. Wouldn’t that fit the narrative of good things never come easy lol 

[LootieTootie]

14 minutes ago, thelogride said:

Wouldn’t that fit the narrative of good things never come easy lol 

The searching sucks... But when two people meet, chemistry is there, goals are mutual, & no second guessing -  it shouldn't be hard. 

This girl is making it hard and that's your sign to date other people who are interested.

 

[thelogride]

1 hour ago, LootieTootie said:

The searching sucks... But when two people meet, chemistry is there, goals are mutual, & no second guessing -  it shouldn't be hard. 

This girl is making it hard and that's your sign to date other people who are interested.

 

Searching is definitely the worst hardest part. It’s weird though, this girl and I had great chemistry and she thought so too. Our goals were crazy in line, both have great faith which is hard to find these days, and a good moral compass. I guess the second guessing is there. I don’t know, but I can tell you what I do know. I’m not contacting her again. If she really meant the things she said then she will make an effort. Maybe time will tell but either way I distance myself and carry on. 

[MissCanuck]

This girl also sounds like the type who has trouble saying "no" without couching it in all sorts of other praise meant to soften the blow. It's common among women who are learning how to be direct, as we're quite conditioned to always be "nice." So we say things that we think sound good because we have difficulty saying the other things that could hurt or disappoint someone. 

I therefore wouldn't hang on to the summer plans as a sign of much interest, honestly, if she follows through at all. 

In any event, OP, I would concentrate more on learning to not put the cart before the horse. That will benefit you no matter which woman comes into your life. 

 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, thelogride said:

 Yes, her behavior is confusing. 

It's rather simple. Many times people confuse intensity with intimacy.

In this case you're confusing overly complicated with interesting.

Just because something appears as a puzzle or enigma, it doesn't mean it's worthwhile figuring it out.

Walking through a corn maze may be fun, but when it comes to relationships all the detours and dead ends just erodes things.

[Batya33]

12 hours ago, wealthydior said:

She could easily find another group or another activity yet she is still down for their so called “double date” activity which is going to a lake. Then it means that she is using him or she wants to do some activities with him. I don’t want to think that she is using him so I assumed it’s the second one.

Things can change by the way, I don’t understand how can you say “she wouldn’t miss him.” I didn’t say that she would miss him romantically but again missing doesn’t always have to be romantic.

Her behaviour is confusing anyways I think you should just wait for your activities. Chasing after someone is very tiring, things like this are tiring.

Yes, we disagree.  Things can change of course -as I wrote above the sky can fall in.  If things change since he's chased her and talked about her to her friends she knows where to find him to open the door to dating in the future.  Until then he should leave it firmly shut.  I see no confusion at all about interest in dating -except for the confusion he's created for himself.

Watch the scene in the Breakfast Club (I'm 55) after the whole day of detention the Ally Sheedy character is asked why she got detention to be in the high school library all day on a Saturday.  Everyone else was there for a disciplinary reason.  She said "because I had nothing better to do."

This activity is not a double date -she doesn't want to date him.  Obviously this is what the OP wants to hear to further the fairy tales he is telling himself about how a woman who has now told him more than once she does not want to date him, wants to date him (?!) - but I think he should go to the lake if he's ready to joke around with her about all the suitors she has, wants, who she thinks is so hot, who she is dating and ready to be flirted with but for flirting's sake -for the attention -not for interest in dating.  Cause she doesn't want to date him.

Maybe she's like Ally Sheedy and has nothing better to do and also will bring a Froot Loops sandwich on white (yes, watch the movie -more than once is what I recommend).  

[thelogride]

i truly don’t believe that she was being nice and talking to me 24/7 staying up all night just to let me down easy. What I do believe is she meant the things she said, including the one where she doesn’t want to date because it’s way too soon for her. She wants to be alone. With saying that, she was upset when we stopped talking too so it wasn’t just me. She’s just in a tough spot and I feel like if this happened two months from now then the outcome would be different because she’s not just a couple weeks removed from her only serious relationship. A relationship that ended because her ex didn’t want to propose and settle down. So she clearly had her heart set on something long term with this guy and I’m sure that crushed her to have to make that decision. While the door is open for her to message me at any time, I truly believe she’s not out talking to a handful of different guys and she’s keeping to herself. That’s just the type of person she is anyways. I’ve known her family my entire life. She’s not someone who sleeps around, she’s had one boyfriend. The door will always remain open, and hopefully with my absence of talking to her she will miss that and realize what she was looking for with her ex, she can find with me. 

[boltnrun]

Are you still ruminating and wallowing? If so, do you find it uplifting and enjoyable? If not, what can you do to stop?

I hope you're not spending hours alone checking your phone for messages or looking at her social media profiles.

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, thelogride said:

I’ve known her family my entire life.

I thought she was someone your friend's girlfriend worked with. Now it turns out you've known her your entire life? I'm confused.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, thelogride said:

That’s just the type of person she is anyways.

Here's the key thing you know about what "type" of person she is - she is a person who told you she doesn't want to date you.  That's all you need to know in order to protect yourself from now on from being even more invested and potentially even more needlessly hurt by telling yourself stories about signs she wants to date you, signs she may want to in the future, how she is going to react to male attention five minutes or five days from now. 

[thelogride]

23 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I thought she was someone your friend's girlfriend worked with. Now it turns out you've known her your entire life? I'm confused.

She and her family were next door neighbors to my grandparents growing up. Plus she graduated with my sister. I’ve never personally known her but yes, I got to know her through my friend who works with her. Like I said, there’s a lot left unsaid for the sake of not spamming this post. 

[thelogride]

26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Here's the key thing you know about what "type" of person she is - she is a person who told you she doesn't want to date you.  That's all you need to know in order to protect yourself from now on from being even more invested and potentially even more needlessly hurt by telling yourself stories about signs she wants to date you, signs she may want to in the future, how she is going to react to male attention five minutes or five days from now. 

I know.. there’s no way of knowing. It’s not like she would come back to me when she feels she’s ready. I know that’s not how relationships work, yet I’m still clinging to hope that she truly wants to be left alone before she’s ready to date again. I’m nuts. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, thelogride said:

I’m nuts. 

So, do you want to keep doing what you've been doing?

BTW, you're not "nuts". You're stuck in a behavior pattern. But those can be changed.

Since you haven't responded to my questions regarding what you're willing to do to change your mindset I can only conclude it works for you. It surely can prevent you from getting into a relationship that could potentially "hurt" you but it also, well, prevents you from having a relationship.

[thelogride]

53 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So, do you want to keep doing what you've been doing?

BTW, you're not "nuts". You're stuck in a behavior pattern. But those can be changed.

Since you haven't responded to my questions regarding what you're willing to do to change your mindset I can only conclude it works for you. It surely can prevent you from getting into a relationship that could potentially "hurt" you but it also, well, prevents you from having a relationship.

I haven’t responded to your question because frankly I don’t know how to respond. If I knew what to do to break this cycle I would do it in a heartbeat. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, thelogride said:

I haven’t responded to your question because frankly I don’t know how to respond. If I knew what to do to break this cycle I would do it in a heartbeat. 

You've ignored the many suggestions given.

[spinstermanquee]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You've ignored the many suggestions given.

^^^ this.  I've been cruising these forums for ~15 years and can tell you, there is some expert FREE advice here from experienced relationship advisors.  ignore at your own peril!  keep on keepin on...

[thelogride]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You've ignored the many suggestions given.

With all due respect, the suggestions given are to move on. No crap I need to move on. Easy to type behind a keyboard not understanding what I’m actually going through or understanding the exact situation. It’s easy to tell someone to move on and carry on and go “talk to local girls in your area who want to actually meet you..” Sadly that’s not a switch you can just flip to want to do that, because I have no interest in that at this point in time. I’m ignoring the comments, I read them all and analyze them all. But if the comments are going to be so vague and cliche then it’s not worth responding to. This isn’t the 1990’s anymore, my generation and relationships operate on a completely different spectrum. Which I’m not proud of, I’d rather have grown up back in the day before social media. 

[boltnrun]

You mentioned quitting therapy. I suggested it might be a good idea to revisit.

Also, of course your compulsions won't instantly vanish. My anxiety didn't. But I had to actively do things that countered the things my anxiety was trying to tell me. So, when my anxiety tells me to stay indoors because I will most definitely get exposed to Covid and die if I go out, do I listen to it and lock myself inside? No, I force myself to go out in a reasonably safe manner in order to overcome my fears.

So your tendency to ruminate and obsess tells you to wallow in your repetitive thoughts. And you could, OR you could actively do something that counters your obsessive thoughts such as make plans with a friend, see your family, cook for yourself, go for a walk or hike, talk to a pretty young lady at school or work or while waiting in line for your coffee...lots of things.

I can tell you that refusing to allow my anxiety to steer my ship and choosing to do things to counteract it was key to overcoming my fears. I'm doing things that were impossible for me a year ago and even a few weeks ago.

This isn't "vague or cliche". People tell you these things because they've proven to be effective.

One thing I can guarantee won't work? Choosing to give up and wallow. 

[MissCanuck]

OP, a couple concrete things you can and should do here:

1) stop talking to your friends about this woman. They might have good intentions but they're actually not helping. 
2) don't make any future plans with her. Forget the summer plans. That is just not a good idea and it will keep you stuck in this " but what if...?" mindset. Cancel those plans. 
3) if you haven't already, cut all contact with her on social media (if you were connected there)

When someone says no, any other flowery praise they heap on after is meaningless. So, you need to do a better job filtering through all that and remembering the bottom line. At this point in time, operate under the assumption that it's not going to happen with her. Not that she will miss talking to you, not that you could continue to get to know each other. None of that. Just that she is a woman you tried connecting with, and it didn't work out. Full stop. 

 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, thelogride said:

With all due respect, the suggestions given are to move on. No crap I need to move on. Easy to type behind a keyboard not understanding what I’m actually going through or understanding the exact situation. It’s easy to tell someone to move on and carry on and go “talk to local girls in your area who want to actually meet you..” Sadly that’s not a switch you can just flip to want to do that, because I have no interest in that at this point in time. I’m ignoring the comments, I read them all and analyze them all. But if the comments are going to be so vague and cliche then it’s not worth responding to. This isn’t the 1990’s anymore, my generation and relationships operate on a completely different spectrum. Which I’m not proud of, I’d rather have grown up back in the day before social media. 

I never said it was easy ever.  It's not. I didn't tell you to talk to local girls -I wouldn't -to me "talking" is not the same as meeting people with potential to date or perhaps introduce you to appropriate women (not girls -why would you date a girl?) - it's not vague at all.  I lived this.  For 24 years and I stopped dating in 2005.  Nothing to do with social media -back then it was meeting men in bars, clubs, singles events, singles resorts, through written personal ads, religious activities, volunteer work, work (how I originally met my husband and yes he had an online profile years later as did I when we broke up for almost 8 years).

It's not different -human nature is not - if a woman is interested in dating you she will ask you out or respond with enthusiasm when you ask her.  Whether it's typed, spoken, sent in a telegram (yes a telegram -how my sister's ex asked for their second date -they met through a personal ad in the 1980s), over a landline phone. 

Social media adds wrinkles.  But back then -we waited by the phone especially before answering machines, a man had to call a woman by Wednesday for a weekend date (especially since you might not get her on the first try so you started calling more like Monday) - and if you wrote someone's number on a napkin at a bar you might lose it or not be able to read it later because it got wet.  No googling either to find the name.  No instant gratification of texts/instant messages/emails - you'd have an awesome date on Saturday and if no other date was planned sometimes we waited 5 days to find out if there would be another date -with total silence.  Or maybe he called but got a busy signal and didn't try again for a few days.  

Back then you had to go out of your home if you wanted to meet anyone at all and you went on blind dates- no photos ever - no photos with personal ads except rarely if you snail mailed them.  You couldn't hide behind a screen and flirt. 

So please stop with your whining about how it's sooooo much harder now.  Yes for sure the pandemic made it harder to socialize (as did AIDs make it so much harder in the mid to late 80s when I was in college to navigate what to do if the relationship looked like it was progressing towards intercourse -so so scary to think you could die from a one night stand which a number of my friends were into).