Overly Emotional Men - Courageous or Weak?

[Wise Wally]

I got somewhat flamed on another thread that went sideways so I'm bringing it to the masses to get everyone's input.  My point was that men who are overly emotional tend to be mentally weak and thus don't make supportive or loving partners.  I'm not talking about getting teary-eyed at a funeral or your kids college graduation.  I'm talking about men that easily succumb to their emotions instead of invoking simple logic and reason.  Do women really find strength and value in a dude that can easily get saddened, angry, verklmept, defensive, submissive, etc?  I can see that leading to so many other things, many of which seem to present themselves daily on these boards.  My view is that men need to be an emotional rock for their wife/girlfriend.  For the women that oppose this view, do you see such guys as projects, someone you can control, nurture, or maybe someone to cry with?

Thanks and flame away.

[Wiseman2]

Academic usage:

"In the social sciences, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity does not condemn men or male attributes, but rather emphasizes the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.

Toxic masculinity is thus defined by adherence to traditional male gender roles that consequently stigmatize and limit the emotions boys and men may comfortably express while elevating other emotions such as anger. It is marked by economic, political, and social expectations that men seek and achieve dominance (the "alpha male")."

[Wise Wally]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Academic usage:

"In the social sciences, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity does not condemn men or male attributes, but rather emphasizes the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.

Toxic masculinity is thus defined by adherence to traditional male gender roles that consequently stigmatize and limit the emotions boys and men may comfortably express while elevating other emotions such as anger. It is marked by economic, political, and social expectations that men seek and achieve dominance (the "alpha male")."

Wiseman, are you suggesting that women only have 2 choices in this day and age; overly-emotional, or toxic?  

[Seraphim]

All humans have every right to emotions. 

[Lambert]

I think the term 'overly emotional' indicates a problem in any gender. Emotions are one thing, overly emotional, to me indicates a problem.

But for what it's worth, I have experienced men who only have the ability to express one emotion, anger. Whether they're feeling sad, mad, threatened, insecure, vulnerable, foolish, embarrassed just generally upset, it comes out in anger.

I don't think it's on the man to be the emotional rock for women, without allowing for the women to be a rock in return.

I think its unreasonable to expect men to just be void of emotions. Women, in my view are not damsels in distress that need rocks. 

Both men and women face challenges and it is nice to have a partner that can be strong for you/ with you, when times get tough. 

As an adult, it is unreasonable to expect another person to always be there for you. You have to show up for yourself, too.

I would imagine just being a rock for another human being (that is not your child) would be exhausting.

 

 

[Rose Mosse]

If I wanted a rock I would go climbing, frankly speaking. I would much rather have someone who is well-balanced, intuitive, kind and doesn't make mountains of molehills in the meantime. Discretion in the midst of this is key.

Emotions are part and parcel of living, very useful tools in gauging situations too and building bonds.

[Wise Wally]

Some good points made so far.  I certainly never suggested that anyone be void of emotions.  I also consider someone easily angered just as overly-emotional as some dude who cries himself to sleep every night.  

Generally speaking, I believe women are naturally more nurturing and emotional than men and men tend to be more simple-minded and logical.  These two qualities tend to mesh very well in successful relationships.  Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but it's quite common to see men turned off by strong, assertive women and women turned off by emotional guys. 

I think this is the point where I get flamed by the feminists 🙂

[Seraphim]

Emotions responses are taught not inborn. My husband was told as a child that his emotions didn’t matter and shut up. His father was a very old fashioned stiff upper lip Brit. My husband doesn’t really respond to anyone’s emotional distress, he needs to be told what the correct response is = emotionally stunted in a way. 
 

My son totally different. We raised him to believe emotions are fine in all humans and he gives a correct emotional response to someone’s distress although most of the time he does not like displaying emotions himself, he knows it is ok to do so. 
 

For the record I am not considered what is feminist by today’s standards. I believe in the equality of all humans. 

 

[Wiseman2]

52 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

women only have 2 choices in this day and age; overly-emotional, or toxic?  

Google "manosphere", considered a hate-group by the DOJ, it's an alt-right/far-right line of thinking.  Black and white thinking such as this, as well as alpha v beta thinking are part of  its tenants.

[Wise Wally]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Google "manosphere", considered a hate-group by the DOJ, it's an alt-right/far-right line of thinking.  Black and white thinking such as this, as well as alpha v beta thinking are part of  its tenants.

Really dude?  This is what you're bringing to the conversation?  The feminists are going to love me compared to your inane responses.  

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Wise Wally said:

The feminists are going to love me 

Many reddit frequenters are sucked into these lines of thinking.

[Kwothe28]

I think its OK to express your emotions at least in some way. For what you are talking you would either had to be emotionally detached or like a sponge. Both would create problems in the long run because you would either be a very cold person or in a case of a "sponge" after too much water you would start to leak or in a case of emotions you would snap. You need to be in control of your emotions. Both deflecting and soaking them would lead to bad consequences.

Now, as relationship goes, in a general sense, maybe. But you are still talking about extremes. "Emotional" as "he would cry for every little thing" is probably not a turn on for any female. You seem to think that it would be a lot easier if males would apply logic and that instead of crying about breaking up/rejection they just soak it up, say "Whatever" and move on. Would it be easier? Sure. But they are still human beings with problems. That is why they come here, to get help because they cant just "soak it up". It doesnt even have anything to do with attracting females. I know a guy that is very successful in that part. But is still "a baby" as far as emotions goes. Easily startled, gets into self loathing sometimes, cries. But has his way with ladies. There are way too many factors involved there then just "emotions".

[lostandhurt]

Everyone is different and handles stress and emotional situations differently and at varying levels. 

To suggest a man or a woman for that matter that is more emotionaly fragile is somehow not dateable or relationship material is very judgmental. Partners find each other and couple because they see in each person attributes they like.  For you being more fragile emotionally is a dealbreaker but for others it may not be even a consideration. 

Are there people in this world that have a harder time dealing with things that come at them?  Yes but that doesn't mean that they cannot be a good husband and father. 

  Just because a man has a penis doesn't mean he isn't allowed to be other than what society has deemed masculine.  Many men hide their emotions because they are afraid of looking weak.

Who is braver, the man that easily expresses his feelings or the one that hides his?

  Generalizing is always dangerous.

Lost

[Wise Wally]

6 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But has his way with ladies. 

Is this why it's "ladies" and not "lady" or is keeping it plural his goal? 

[Lambert]

1 hour ago, Wise Wally said:

 it's quite common to see men turned off by strong, assertive women and women turned off by emotional guys. 

I think this is the point where I get flamed by the feminists 🙂

I find the complete opposite for the formet. The major of couples I know,  the man defers to the woman's choices (in general)

As for the latter, I haven't come across many emotional guys.

The term feminist, has many meanings. But based on how you used it, I think you mean it in a negative sense. So I'm keeping my opinion to myself on that last line.

[lostandhurt]

15 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

Really dude?  This is what you're bringing to the conversation?  The feminists are going to love me compared to your inane responses.  

Perhaps your combative nature on this forum is what is bringing out your perceived idea that you are being flamed.

Lost

[Wise Wally]

2 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Who is braver, the man that easily expresses his feelings or the one that hides his?

 

Assuming that expressing your emotions is a way to garner attention and make it all about yourself, than I would say the one hiding the emotions is braver.  

[SooSad33]

1 hour ago, Wise Wally said:

My view is that men need to be an emotional rock for their wife/girlfriend.  For the women that oppose this view, do you see such guys as projects, someone you can control, nurture, or maybe someone to cry with?

I have a son similar to this.. Yeah, he is more 'sensitive' and that is okay.  It doesn't rule his world but it is acceptable.

I can easily see his 'hurt' and he just needs less stress or pressure's put upon him.  IMO, doesn't make him any less of a man.  Does he have a gf, yup 🙂 .  They seem to be doing okay.

As mentioned, we're all human.  We feel and everyone is different.

But, there is a point where it may cross the line, to where it may be too much for a partner to handle, if they seem 'overly' emotional.  At that point, is maybe an idea to seek some prof help - as to why they are so 'low'?

And someone like this may just need more time to process & accept things... No, we cannot 'control' them or change them.. Fact is, on whether their partner can 'accept' this.

Not sure why you word any of this as a 'project'. 😕  Or someone you can 'control'.

There are just several different avenues I feel we can go with this...

 

[SooSad33]

2 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

I would say the one hiding the emotions is braver.  

I don't see anything like this as 'brave'.  a partner doesn't like to deal with a rock.

And, if you 'hide' everything , this can cause more problems, as tensions 'build', then boom!  Is never a good idea to bottle everything up.

 

[Coily]

Throwing my $0.03 in here.

My thinking here is that there are three categories we need to discuss; Traditional Masculinity, Toxic Masculinity, and Overly Emotional Masculinity.

Traditional masculinity, for me, has always been about mastering your emotions so that one can be a productive, caring, and positive member of society. It is wrongfully portrayed in the post modern realm as men being cold emotionless beings, rather than the measured thoughtful response to an emotional situation. Being the master of yourself and not flying into fits of rage or weeping is the quality being exemplified here.

Toxic Masculinity is a catch all phrase to shame, and at times rightfully,  outbursts or indifference. It is about being so defensive (by nature or nurture) that rather than  responding, one shuts down completely. It's over used and quite frankly harmful.

Overly Emotional Masculinity is the kind of guy who flies off the handle, in anger or fits of self pity. This is the kind of guy who does not take responsibility for his actions and foists it onto others. They can be as extreme as the "toxic masculinity" and fit to just as bad if not worse behaviors. Both are manipulative, but in very different ways, tM more prone to gaslighting and OEM prone to guilt trips etc.

Conclusions, I think it's a great thing to have emotions and share them. However that needs to be done in such a way that you can look at yourself in the mirror the next day.

[Wise Wally]

3 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

Perhaps your combative nature on this forum is what is bringing out your perceived idea that you are being flamed.

Lost

I have actually not tried to be combative.  I'm simply trying to learn other viewpoints while opining my own and encouraging healthy debate.  If I've been remotely combative to anyone, I sincerely apologize (with the exception of those that think I'm part of some dark web hate group).  

[bluecastle]

1 hour ago, Wise Wally said:

My view is that men need to be

50 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

Generally speaking, I believe women are

Personally, I think the moment we start thinking in such sweeping generalizations—that men are/need/should be x, that women are/need/should be y—we are stripping away so much vital connective tissue as to sabotage a relationship before it even exists. 

Humans are wonderfully multi-dimensional, nuanced, surprising, gloriously contradictory, always evolving in ways big and small. Why squeeze another, or yourself, into a box so small that it risks suffocating those many wonderful dimensions? Sounds like a recipe for exhaustion, stagnancy over growth, among other things.

People, at least from what I've seen, much prefer to be people than to play roles, hence the common refrains of those coming out of relationships: "I feel I lost myself somewhere along the way..." 

My few cents. 

 

[boltnrun]

I got spanked by my mother when I was a child if I even looked like I MIGHT cry. Accompanied with "stop being a crybaby!!" And I'm female.

No,I don't want, need or expect my romantic partner to "be a rock". What's he gonna do, throw himself at my emotions? I also don't want a "Mr. Fix It" when I vent about someone at work or on the freeway, for example. I would like a listening ear, not for him to whip out the tool kit or start listing what HE thinks I "should" do. Annoying.

I used to date a guy who thought similarly. Here's an example: when we were dating there was a well publicized case of a missing 4 year old girl. One day her body was found by a man who was out riding his bike. The media played the recording of his 911 call, during which he sobbed while telling the operator he had found the body of a "baby". The man was obviously distraught and traumatized. Well, the moron I was dating scoffed at the man, saying "come on, crying??? Be a MAN!!" Shockingly, I wasn't immediately turned on, thinking "wow, this guy is a ROCK! What an alpha male! So sexy!" No, my  immediate thought was "what an idiot". He too believed women are overly emotional and lacked logic. Well, guess who was sending the whining, pleading emails and texts when I told him I didn't want to date him anymore? Where was the "rock", the "alpha male" then? He then proceeded to electronically stalk me for years until I finally told him to buzz off and blocked him. So much for who's the emotional one.

I understand some women really love the strong, silent, unemotional type. And that's great. But most women I know prefer a man who is not fearful of showing a vulnerable side. And who doesn't subscribe to the "women are emotional, men are logical" school of thought.

[Wise Wally]

4 minutes ago, Coily said:

Throwing my $0.03 in here.

My thinking here is that there are three categories we need to discuss; Traditional Masculinity, Toxic Masculinity, and Overly Emotional Masculinity.

Traditional masculinity, for me, has always been about mastering your emotions so that one can be a productive, caring, and positive member of society. It is wrongfully portrayed in the post modern realm as men being cold emotionless beings, rather than the measured thoughtful response to an emotional situation. Being the master of yourself and not flying into fits of rage or weeping is the quality being exemplified here.

Toxic Masculinity is a catch all phrase to shame, and at times rightfully,  outbursts or indifference. It is about being so defensive (by nature or nurture) that rather than  responding, one shuts down completely. It's over used and quite frankly harmful.

Overly Emotional Masculinity is the kind of guy who flies off the handle, in anger or fits of self pity. This is the kind of guy who does not take responsibility for his actions and foists it onto others. They can be as extreme as the "toxic masculinity" and fit to just as bad if not worse behaviors. Both are manipulative, but in very different ways, tM more prone to gaslighting and OEM prone to guilt trips etc.

Conclusions, I think it's a great thing to have emotions and share them. However that needs to be done in such a way that you can look at yourself in the mirror the next day.

Thank you Coily.  You laid it out much better than I did.  Traditional masculinity, as you described, is clearly what I'm attempting to defend and hopefully the Dept of Justice doesn't see that one as much of a threat.  

[boltnrun]

11 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

Assuming that expressing your emotions is a way to garner attention and make it all about yourself, than I would say the one hiding the emotions is braver.  

Why do you assume men express emotions as a means to garner attention?

Maybe the man felt sad because he was sad.