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DJ.

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I'm a 45 year old man I've been married for 15 years to my wife, We attended an engagement together, towards the end of the night we got into a row over getting home, My wife and her friend where yelling at me to do as they suggested, It ended with me pushing my wife away from me, not hard but enough to knock her of balance and fall, bear in mind we had both been drinking, but I have never layer a finger on her in all 15 years of marriage or 20 years of the relationship, we have had only a handful of arguments or disagreements in that time also . I tried to apologise to my wife as soon as I realized what i had done, but was escorted away. Upon leaving I also called her friend a not nice name as they both were still yelling at me. A few weeks have passed and still my wife will not talk or accept my apologises and has suggested we separate as feels can not forgive me anytime soon for the push or the name calling . I have tried written apologies and explanations, have suggested counselling, but it all seems to go nowhere. Should I just separate or keep trying to salvage our relationship and marriage, there are children involved so I know its going to be hard on them, if separation is the only answer.

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I'm sorry this happened.

OK so I understand you pushed her "away" and my sense is that you didn't know your own strength -so you chose to get drunk and chose the consequences of not being aware enough of what you were doing - I can see where if someone is in your face yelling at you and you cannot get away you might try to get that person away from you -on impulse -but my guess is she experienced it as not just a "get away" gentle push but much harder. 

I understand you never laid a finger on her but how often do things escalate to this kind of public yelling and fighting?  Because that might be part of it here -the cumulative affect of all the verbal fighting and now this.  How often do the two of you drink to excess? Also were either of you going to drive a car at that point??

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39 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm sorry this happened.

OK so I understand you pushed her "away" and my sense is that you didn't know your own strength -so you chose to get drunk and chose the consequences of not being aware enough of what you were doing - I can see where if someone is in your face yelling at you and you cannot get away you might try to get that person away from you -on impulse -but my guess is she experienced it as not just a "get away" gentle push but much harder. 

I understand you never laid a finger on her but how often do things escalate to this kind of public yelling and fighting?  Because that might be part of it here -the cumulative affect of all the verbal fighting and now this.  How often do the two of you drink to excess? Also were either of you going to drive a car at that point??

es agreed I assume my wife feels it was an act of aggression rather than a defensive mechanism, we had both been drinking. Yes I'm a big guy and maybe don't know my own strength, yet doubt would have fallen if she'd not been drinking also. There was certainly no malice in my action or intent to harm.

Things have never escalated to that level before, as I said we have only ever had a handful of arguments prior, which would always end in me, taking the dog out or just going for a walk to clear the air. In regards to arguing in public it has never happened as I have always been the house husband, so have only ever gone out as a couple on a few occasions, I might add that my wife does and always has been able to go out most weekends. Neither of us was driving, that's partly what the disagreement was about as she wanted me to get a taxi and take some stuff home while she stayed or came home later. Or at least that's how I saw it, also its should of been fair to assume id of walked home as that is what I usually do and said I wanted to do. I even walk with some of our children when we have visited parents, while she chooses to get a lift.

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You are conveniently glossing over the fact that before you shoved your wife, the situation has already escalated to the point where two women had to raise their voice at you. Yes, when you shoved your wife it was an act of aggression as you physically lashed out at her for not getting your way with whatever you wanted to do.

Until you actually acknowledge that and stop pretending you didn't mean to and making excuses that you were drunk and it wasn't that hard, etc, you cannot fix what happened and your wife has no reason to believe that this won't happen again. You need to stop lying to her and to yourself first.

As for counseling, it's not her who needs it. It's you. You need to learn how to manage your emotions better, including anger. It's not on her to go to counseling to repair what you've done, it's your problem and your responsibility, so don't offer counseling, go and do counseling for yourself. Show with your actions that you actually mean it and are taking real measures to make sure you don't explode in another physical attack next time you lose control of yourself or your temper.

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15 minutes ago, DJ. said:

In regards to arguing in public it has never happened as I have always been the house husband, so have only ever gone out as a couple on a few occasions, I might add that my wife does and always has been able to go out most weekends. 

Over 15 years of marriage and you've only gone out with your wife a few times while she's out every weekend????  Sounds like she's been looking for the right opportunity to strike and you provided it.  Also, I assume her friend is one of the gang that she hangs out with on weekends?  If so, then I'd bet my life savings your wife talks bad about you constantly, which explains why her friend was comfortable yelling at you along with her.  I don't know many people that would feel the need to team up in someone else's domestic dispute.  

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6 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

You are conveniently glossing over the fact that before you shoved your wife, the situation has already escalated to the point where two women had to raise their voice at you. Yes, when you shoved your wife it was an act of aggression as you physically lashed out at her for not getting your way with whatever you wanted to do.

Until you actually acknowledge that and stop pretending you didn't mean to and making excuses that you were drunk and it wasn't that hard, etc, you cannot fix what happened and your wife has no reason to believe that this won't happen again. You need to stop lying to her and to yourself first.

As for counseling, it's not her who needs it. It's you. You need to learn how to manage your emotions better, including anger. It's not on her to go to counseling to repair what you've done, it's your problem and your responsibility, so don't offer counseling, go and do counseling for yourself. Show with your actions that you actually mean it and are taking real measures to make sure you don't explode in another physical attack next time you lose control of yourself or your temper.

I am not

 

7 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

You are conveniently glossing over the fact that before you shoved your wife, the situation has already escalated to the point where two women had to raise their voice at you. Yes, when you shoved your wife it was an act of aggression as you physically lashed out at her for not getting your way with whatever you wanted to do.

Until you actually acknowledge that and stop pretending you didn't mean to and making excuses that you were drunk and it wasn't that hard, etc, you cannot fix what happened and your wife has no reason to believe that this won't happen again. You need to stop lying to her and to yourself first.

As for counseling, it's not her who needs it. It's you. You need to learn how to manage your emotions better, including anger. It's not on her to go to counseling to repair what you've done, it's your problem and your responsibility, so don't offer counseling, go and do counseling for yourself. Show with your actions that you actually mean it and are taking real measures to make sure you don't explode in another physical attack next time you lose control of yourself or your temper.

I am not glossing over anything, i have accepted what i did was the wrong thing am not blaming the drink in any way and its wasn't two women yelling it was my wife and a male friend (admittedly gay but has sweet fa to do with it) I suggested counselling for me as a means for my wife to understand i own my actions and willing tgo try what needs to be done to salvage our marriage.

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3 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

All it needs it once to instil fear. It doesn’t matter now what happened for 20 years. Once you install fear in someone it is almost always over. 

From what the OP describes, I disagree on this one.  I don't think she fears you at all but is using this instance as an excuse to act out how she already felt about you.

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3 minutes ago, DJ. said:

I am not glossing over anything, i have accepted what i did was the wrong thing am not blaming the drink in any way and its wasn't two women yelling it was my wife and a male friend (admittedly gay but has sweet fa to do with it) I suggested counselling for me as a means for my wife to understand i own my actions and willing tgo try what needs to be done to salvage our marriage.

Good. Then follow through with that and give her space to cool off as well.

While you are doing that, you might want to think about the overall state of your marriage. You both seem completely disconnected from each other. It's odd to be married for so many years with children and yet not socialize as a couple.

Have you been suppressing years of resentments?

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19 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

All it needs it once to instil fear. It doesn’t matter now what happened for 20 years. Once you install fear in someone it is almost always over. 

Agreed, I cannot excuse my actions and never will. I except our marriage is over but just wanted a few opinions as to whether I should at least try to salvage it

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2 hours ago, DJ. said:

It ended with me pushing my wife away from me, not hard but enough to knock her of balance and fall. I realized what i had done, but was escorted away. 

Were you arrested?

Being a belligerent abusive drunk is a good reason for her to have you arrested, get a restraining order and file for divorce.

Hopefully her friends and family will assist and support her in this.

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10 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Good. Then follow through with that and give her space to cool off as well.

While you are doing that, you might want to think about the overall state of your marriage. You both seem completely disconnected from each other. It's odd to be married for so many years with children and yet not socialize as a couple.

Have you been suppressing years of resentments?

I intend too, I have already requested information from relate, and do give her the space to cool off, however that space is difficult to maintain whist still living together, Admittedly my wife is the bread winner so is at work all day, Maybe there is some resentments, I have never been one to socialise though.

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I would give her what she wants and separate.

As hard as it may be to understand, violence against women is a line many women, myself included, will not tolerate being crossed even once. 

It's a hard line. But the only way to ensure it doesn't happen again.

As a full grown adult & father, you should be in better control of yourself. Drinking is only an excuse. 

I'm not sure if violent men, realize how utterly terrifying it is to face this. Not knowing how or where it will end. To be the smaller, usually physically weaker person. And if faced with someone we are supposed to trust to love and care for us, it changes things. completely. 

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39 minutes ago, Wise Wally said:

Over 15 years of marriage and you've only gone out with your wife a few times while she's out every weekend????  Sounds like she's been looking for the right opportunity to strike and you provided it.  Also, I assume her friend is one of the gang that she hangs out with on weekends?  If so, then I'd bet my life savings your wife talks bad about you constantly, which explains why her friend was comfortable yelling at you along with her.  I don't know many people that would feel the need to team up in someone else's domestic dispute.  

 I do not like socialising to be honest, never really have, that has always been fine, after all its my wife hard earned money, I'm the house husband with no income that has been my role since we got together. You are correct in your assumptions though that it was one of her besties. In fact it was mainly her friends left at the event.

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Maybe separation is best, if it's been weeks and she hasn't wanted to deal with you... that's a long while.

Yeah, there's usually always kids involved, when a marriage falls apart, nothing new.

You move out and focus on the kids,  You respect her by not begging or harassing her. and arrange visiitation, child support etc. ( Or, vice versa- not sure your position in this, saying she is the bread winner?). Do you work?

Okay, I see you don't.. is there a reason for this? ( should you move back home.. is this possible?).

 

 

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1 minute ago, SooSad33 said:

Maybe separation is best, if it's been weeks and she hasn't wanted to deal with you... that's a long while.

Yeah, there's usually always kids involved, when a marriage falls apart, nothing new.

You move out and focus on the kids,  You respect her by not begging or harassing her. and arrange visiitation, child support etc. ( Or, vice versa- not sure your position in this, saying she is the bread winner?). Do you work?

 

 

No unfortunately i don't I am a house husband, with no income whatso ever, thank you I feel you may be right unfortunately.

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11 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I would give her what she wants and separate.

As hard as it may be to understand, violence against women is a line many women, myself included, will not tolerate being crossed even once. 

It's a hard line. But the only way to ensure it doesn't happen again.

As a full grown adult & father, you should be in better control of yourself. Drinking is only an excuse. 

I'm not sure if violent men, realize how utterly terrifying it is to face this. Not knowing how or where it will end. To be the smaller, usually physically weaker person. And if faced with someone we are supposed to trust to love and care for us, it changes things. completely. 

I know drinking is an excuse, don't usually drink even at home, special occasions usually I did not intend to imply it as the reason for my actions, just a mitigating factor, and my wife had been drinking too. 'As a full grown adult & father, you should be in better control of yourself' That is why i suggested counselling for me at least to my wife, as a sign of my commitment to gain that self control

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What I'm driving at is that when someone lashes out like that, either it's because they felt in danger (you didn't) or because of years of pent up resentments blowing up like a volcano even if the trigger for it seems minor. I think you need to dig a bit deeper into why you reacted the way that you did.

The other thing that stands out is that despite saying that you want to save the marriage, you seem very quick to agree that maybe parting ways is for the best. This again makes me think that your relationship has been on the rocks longer than you are willing to face up to.

So if you are deep down ready to call it a day, then do it. However, don't move out and do speak to an attorney. Moving out can be used against you as abandonment of your marriage and children and can cost you dearly in terms of custody. So beware and do get good legal advice. Don't act on emotions here.

If you are not ready to call it a day and really want to fix things, then you have no choice but to sit tight and if your wife keeps stonewalling you, then you will have to actually sit her down and have a serious conversation about the state of your marriage and where to from here. There comes a point where she has to make a decision to forgive and move forward or to part ways because she can't. She cannot hold this over your head forever and keep the tensions going hoping that will force you out of the house. If she is playing that game, then see above - get legal advice and act per that advice only.

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3 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

What I'm driving at is that when someone lashes out like that, either it's because they felt in danger (you didn't) or because of years of pent up resentments blowing up like a volcano even if the trigger for it seems minor. I think you need to dig a bit deeper into why you reacted the way that you did.

The other thing that stands out is that despite saying that you want to save the marriage, you seem very quick to agree that maybe parting ways is for the best. This again makes me think that your relationship has been on the rocks longer than you are willing to face up to.

So if you are deep down ready to call it a day, then do it. However, don't move out and do speak to an attorney. Moving out can be used against you as abandonment of your marriage and children and can cost you dearly in terms of custody. So beware and do get good legal advice. Don't act on emotions here.

If you are not ready to call it a day and really want to fix things, then you have no choice but to sit tight and if your wife keeps stonewalling you, then you will have to actually sit her down and have a serious conversation about the state of your marriage and where to from here. There comes a point where she has to make a decision to forgive and move forward or to part ways because she can't. She cannot hold this over your head forever and keep the tensions going hoping that will force you out of the house. If she is playing that game, then see above - get legal advice and act per that advice only.

Thank you I'm not entirely sure I didn't feel in danger as it was two against one, so would seem to suggest a deeper routed issue, Issues that have been plaguing our relationship for at least a year, not willing to discuses them on an open forum, but haven't been intimate with each other for a year come October, (married life with children though)I will take advise onboard, and when she is open to a discussion, will try to and have that conversation. I do want to save our marriage but feel this was an excuse maybe she was looking for. I don't know, thank you.

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I presume you are the primary caregiver to the children, if so do not leave the house for their sake. They need the routine and stability more than ever right now. Use a separate room and minimize contact with your wife in any form, if things are trending to separation then document everything you can.

It sounds like your wife has been looking for an excuse for a long time and this was her golden opportunity. As such I would consider consulting an attorney, since your actions will undoubtedly get you buried in the courts. 

All that negativity aside, do as many positive things with your kids as you can. Find ways to improve yourself mentally and physically.

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1 minute ago, Coily said:

I presume you are the primary caregiver to the children, if so do not leave the house for their sake. They need the routine and stability more than ever right now. Use a separate room and minimize contact with your wife in any form, if things are trending to separation then document everything you can.

It sounds like your wife has been looking for an excuse for a long time and this was her golden opportunity. As such I would consider consulting an attorney, since your actions will undoubtedly get you buried in the courts. 

All that negativity aside, do as many positive things with your kids as you can. Find ways to improve yourself mentally and physically.

Thank you, for advice on documenting everything  never thought about that. We already sleep apart have done for quite sometime even before the incident, a mutual understanding I might add. 

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