Is my GF under the spell of a Co-Dependendant mother?

[abitbroken]

2 hours ago, JimStewart said:

Hello and thank you for your comments. I think you may have misunderstood a couple of points. I did not insert myself into their plans. It was the opposite.  My GF wanted to take her mother on a hike that was about an hour from my home (45 minutes from my GF's home) and so my GF asked me to come, to be part of the experience, but also because I have a car and she does not and the mother did not rent one upon her arrival.  I did not insert myself, my GF inserted me into the plans.

As for the Vaseline, that was my suggestion when my GF said her foot hurt from the bee sting irrigation.  The suggestion was based years of running and hiking where hikers/runners use vaseline to avoid skin irritation and supported by Podiatrist website advise.  The goal was to help my GF who was about to embark on a 4.5-5.0 mile hike with a bad foot and this was after my GF asked for my help regarding her foot earlier that same morning.

 

If she had a bad foot -- you could have suggested that they go to a cafe, an outdoor theater performance or something that didn't involve hiking, too.

Do you see a difference between making a suggestion an "correcting" her mother?  Does that put it into perspective? If mom already took care of it and GF was satisfied with that and put vaseline on it, I would have just let it go or would have not "showed up" mom by quoting podiatrist websites.  It might have worked fine or GF could have had a sore foot - either way, she is an adult who made a choice. 

You are way too involved with groceries, being GF's and the handler of their travel itinerary.  It was nice to pick mom up from the airport, but staying out of it and letting GF invite you for dinner if mom wanted to meet you - would have been more standard for the length of time you are dating.

 

Anyway = maybe the responses have given you items to consider.

btw, 'trying to help with her career" is also codependent.

Doing things for someone because you don't think they are capable of doing it and making yourself "needed"  is also

[JimStewart]

27 minutes ago, abitbroken said:

 

If she had a bad foot -- you could have suggested that they go to a cafe, an outdoor theater performance or something that didn't involve hiking, too.

Do you see a difference between making a suggestion an "correcting" her mother?  Does that put it into perspective? If mom already took care of it and GF was satisfied with that and put vaseline on it, I would have just let it go or would have not "showed up" mom by quoting podiatrist websites.  It might have worked fine or GF could have had a sore foot - either way, she is an adult who made a choice. 

You are way too involved with groceries, being GF's and the handler of their travel itinerary.  It was nice to pick mom up from the airport, but staying out of it and letting GF invite you for dinner if mom wanted to meet you - would have been more standard for the length of time you are dating.

 

Anyway = maybe the responses have given you items to consider.

btw, 'trying to help with her career" is also codependent.

Doing things for someone because you don't think they are capable of doing it and making yourself "needed"  is also

Hello. I still think you have a mistaken impression of what transpired so please let me explain further so perhaps you have a better understanding of the situation.

First, this plan to go on the hike was not my idea.  It was my GF’s idea and she was adamant that she wanted to go. She had made her mind up.  She stated repeatedly she wanted her mother to see the waterfall and that “this trip is for my Mom.”  I had nothing to do with creating this “travel itinerary” as you say.

Second, the mother had not taken care of it.  It was I who suggested putting the Vaseline on per my running/hiking experience and per the Podiatrist website.  The mother had taken no corrective / remedial measures for my GF’s foot before we were about to leave for the 5 mile hike.

Significantly, an hour before I arrived at my GF’s apartment, my GF had called me stating her foot hurt and she wanted to go to the ER.  I said we should not go on the hike if her foot hurt that badly but she said she wanted to do the hike and would go to the ER or Urgent care after the hike.

So clearly whatever the mother was or was not doing, had my GF calling me that morning saying she wanted me to take her to a doctor. It was with this understanding, that my GF wanted me to take her to the doctor following the hike, that I arrived at her place and wanted to see her foot and put Vaseline on if that would make the hike less painful for her.

[DancingFool]

Dude....you have multiple strangers, that have no pony in this race, telling you that you are over enmeshed and again....you keep right arguing and just telling people that if they don't agree with you, they must not understand.

No, we do actually understand. Again, you are over enmeshed. Your own behavior was not stellar to put it politely. Looking up things online to prove your point and shoving it in her mother's face was absurd behavior on your end and completely out of line. So was all the driving your gf around and jumping at her beck and call. You do realize that your gf survived without you and without a car just fine before she met you, right? So much so, that she didn't feel the need to learn how to drive or get a car.

Her mother may be toxic, but so are you. You and the mother got into it like two dogs fighting over one bone. If you refuse to see where you went wrong....you will continue to repeat your mistakes again and again.

[JimStewart]

3 hours ago, DancingFool said:

Dude....you have multiple strangers, that have no pony in this race, telling you that you are over enmeshed and again....you keep right arguing and just telling people that if they don't agree with you, they must not understand.

No, we do actually understand. Again, you are over enmeshed. Your own behavior was not stellar to put it politely. Looking up things online to prove your point and shoving it in her mother's face was absurd behavior on your end and completely out of line. So was all the driving your gf around and jumping at her beck and call. You do realize that your gf survived without you and without a car just fine before she met you, right? So much so, that she didn't feel the need to learn how to drive or get a car.

Her mother may be toxic, but so are you. You and the mother got into it like two dogs fighting over one bone. If you refuse to see where you went wrong....you will continue to repeat your mistakes again and again.

Actually, I am not "arguing" and telling people they "dont' understand" when they take a perspective.  What I  have noted is when a follow-up poster was mistaken as to the underlying facts that set forth in the opening post.  That's all and you can compare what I wrote in the OP to the points I endeavored to correct.

[Tinydance]

Well I'm from Russia also but I came to Australia as a 12-year-old girl and have lived here for 25 years. So I understand different cultures and I think you had a culture clash. My Mum doesn't behave like this and she's very friendly and polite. In Russia however people often have a tone which may seem rude but it's not intended to be. Russian people don't speak extremely politely like in the US or Australia. Like "Sorry sir, thank you sir", that kind of stuff. They can be very blunt but that doesn't mean they're deliberately being a jerk to you.

Another thing is in Russia you are supposed to really respect and value your elders. It sounds like your girlfriend is also very close to her Mum because her father was abusive and she had no relationship with him. I think it was really nice of you to do all those things for your girlfriend and her Mum but you were really full on about trying to prove her mother wrong in everything. I think that was very unnecessary and you argued with her and Googled things to prove her wrong. The mother was only visiting and she was going to go home eventually. So really who cares what she thought but you were trying too hard to fight with her. In a sense you should have just bitten your tongue and nodded and smiled. 

Maybe she really was a doctor and she also just wanted to take care of her daughter because it's her daughter. I understand she's 30 but in Russia there's this big closeness with your parents even if you're older. 

You offended her mother because it wasn't necessary to go to such lengths as to Google things and say it's illegal for her to do medical things and so on. Obviously your girlfriend is going to take her mother's side because it's her MUM. You're a guy she's only been dating for six months. Her mother didn't approve of you and maybe she wasn't as into you as you thought she was either.

[Tinydance]

On 8/31/2021 at 3:02 AM, abitbroken said:

Why did you insert herself in all of their plans? Its nice to meet her and mom for lunch, but you were way too involved with the visit.

Also, who cares if someone has a different way of dealing with a very minor injury than you?  vaseline wouldn't kill her.  I would have just stayed out of it.

I explain how under the law it is illegal for people, even those who may have medical degrees from foreign countries, to even diagnose or treat people and claim they are a physician if they are not licensed.  And that the reason for this is to be a physician in the a foreign country is no guarantee they meet the standards required to practice medicine in the U.S.

If you were dating my niece, I would say you came off as a know it all or bit of a jerk "correcting" me - thinking i intend to practice as a doctor in the US.  Every mother in the world puts bandaids on their kids and aren't doctors.  She could worry how you talk to her daughter in private and could be getting a bit protective of her and snappy.  And who cares if she doesn't understand chickens? its a pick your battles thing.   People have different home remedies in different countries and your girlfriend's foot would not have fallen off if Vaseline was on it.  In fact, i had a scar revision and guest what part of the after care was?  Applying vaseline and a bandaid to keep it moist and covered.

So it goes both ways.  Mom has equal worry that she will end up with a guy like her father equally to you being preoccupied with mom being codependent or not. Also keep in mind women in other countries don't have the same ability to just leave a husband or protect their kids like you would imagine. And mom might not have known everything

Actually on that point. Russia has now introduced a law that if a man  beats a woman, but it's within a relationship, all they get is a little fine. So a lot of women that are victims of family violence actually just run away and hide from the man so that he can't find them and hurt them and the children.

[abitbroken]

5 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Actually on that point. Russia has now introduced a law that if a man  beats a woman, but it's within a relationship, all they get is a little fine. So a lot of women that are victims of family violence actually just run away and hide from the man so that he can't find them and hurt them and the children.

YES

you can't expect someone who lives in a different country with different laws and culture to do what someone would do if they lived in the US all their life.  Its easy looking on the outside to say "well mom should have just left or went to the authorities".  Mom was born during the USSR era, and i do know at least still in the 70s and 80s, you got on the list for an apartment when you were born, once you got one (it could take until you were an adult because you had to wait for enough people to die, give up their apartments due to marriage), you had no say on where it was, and if you married, and moved in with the new spouse, you lost your apartment and had nowhere to go if things went south.  At least that is what we learned and that is what people who fled from the USSR told us. 

 

[abitbroken]

On 8/30/2021 at 8:34 PM, JimStewart said:

Actually, I am not "arguing" and telling people they "dont' understand" when they take a perspective.  What I  have noted is when a follow-up poster was mistaken as to the underlying facts that set forth in the opening post.  That's all and you can compare what I wrote in the OP to the points I endeavored to correct.

You keep clarifying because you do not agree with the answers, and are looking for another detail you have forgotten to change our minds.  

I really think you should look up White Knight syndrome -- or maybe not syndrome that's a bad word because its not a disease or anything. You saw a woman who revealed her childhood wasn't awesome and she wasn't where she needed to be in her career and you went into rescue mode. 

Please take what people are telling you to heart -- it is always possible to change for the better. 

[LaHermes]

6 hours ago, Tinydance said:

So a lot of women that are victims of family violence actually just run away and hide from the man so that he can't find them and hurt them and the children.

Well, guess what. Newsflash. Not just in Russia, but in any other country you care to name.  Family violence is, sadly, quite endemic everywhere. All too often the perpetrator is never even reported, let alone fined!

 

[JimStewart]

6 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Actually on that point. Russia has now introduced a law that if a man  beats a woman, but it's within a relationship, all they get is a little fine. So a lot of women that are victims of family violence actually just run away and hide from the man so that he can't find them and hurt them and the children.

 

 

Hello.  Tinydance and thank you for your thoughts and insight.  I do know what you mean as I had previously worked in Moscow and Novgorod where I met many Russians.  I managed a recording artist there and spent time with her and her Mother and sister at their summer house. 

In addition, I dated a girl from Russia for a number of years.  Her parents would come to LA and stay with her for months at a time and we all got along great!  We did road trips to San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Diego, etc.  We spent holidays together and had countless meals together. I even got the father a job while they were here in LA!  So I have probably more experience then most when it comes to the cultural differences.  But this was so off the reservation.   Your Mom sounds charming as were my prior girlfriend’s parents.  I wasn’t trying to prove her mom wrong about everything. With the eggs, her mother asserted her point. I did not try and prove her wrong. I stated I believed chickens lay eggs fertilized or not, but then I stated, “I’m not certain so I’ll look it up.”  So I did what any fact-checker does, I Googled it.  At the time, it was simply (I thought) a good natured discussion.

She has told me how her mother failed to intervene to protect her as a child when her father was physically violent or sexually inappropriate/abusive.  I do believe you are correct that she is close to her mother because her relationship with her father is still lukewarm at best as they still seem to have unresolved issues.  From what I’ve read, their relationship seems co-dependent and with my GF seeking her Mother’s approval.  Her family was apparently very critical of her as she was a child growing up and now in adult life what I’ve seen is her wanting to “become a popstar” and to become “Famous” to prove her worthiness. 

What you say about people in Russia are to “really respect and value your elders” may factor in as well.  Call me crazy though, if a person, regardless of who they are, is rude and disrespectful, the person who they are being rude and disrespectful to has a right to stand up for themselves and not be disrespected and treated rudely.  Perhaps it is a cultural thing but being okay with being treated rudely or being okay with being disrespected is not a good thing and not okay in my book nor was that how I was raised by my parents. I was raised to stand up for my rights (and for the rights of others).

I do agree with your point and if only I had a time machine, when you say:  “The mother was only visiting and she was going to go home eventually. So really who cares what she thought but you were trying too hard to fight with her. In a sense you should have just bitten your tongue and nodded and smiled.”

You are so right!  That is exactly what I should have done.  (On the other hand, what if three years into my relationship a similar situation arose and my GF was my wife who acted the same way all over again? Was it good to see this now?......... I don’t know.  Life would have been simpler had I done what you suggest…that’s for sure!)

As for how things are in Russia, there is a very old expression and it goes like this:  “When in Rome do as the Romans do.”  This expression goes back over 1600 years!  I know when I travel to Russia, China or other places where the culture is very different, I do not act as though I am in the US or Europe. 

I would have hoped people living in the USA for years (like my GF) would be able to understand this and she could have intervened and explained this to either her Mother or me or both of us.  At the end of the day, the Mother was here on American soil. 

Also, I offended the Mother BEFORE I even Googled the point of putting Vaseline on one’s foot before a long hike to avoid irritation (particularly where my GF wants to go to the ER because her foot is irritated from the Bee sting).

I first offended the Mother when I stated to my GF that I would look at her foot… and then over the Mother’s objection I still looked at her foot.

Literally, that was what offended her!

After looking at her foot and then stating we should put Vaseline on her foot, well that was just the straw that pushed the mother into overdrive at that point. 

She did not want me to look at the foot, told me not to look at it, and I did look at it.  That mean I did not respect her in her mind. 

Then, after she looked at it…and apparently said it was fine, here I was stating (correctly) we should apply Vaseline to the irritated area.  This remedial measure that I proposed is what caused her to say, “He doesn’t respect me. I am not getting in a car with him and I am not going anywhere with him.”

I googled the application of the Vaseline only after the mother said this to show this was in fact in my GF’s best interest and supported by a Podiatrist’s website. 

I have lived enough to know when someone is behaving outside the realm of normalcy and that is exactly what I witnessed first-hand.

As to your other point:  “Her mother didn't approve of you and maybe she wasn't as into you as you thought she was either”, again, you may very well be correct.

Either way, at the end of the day, a man-woman relationship requires a couple where each has each other’s back. Where each is supportive of the other.  What I saw from the Mother was extremely unhealthy and inappropriate behavior from an adult, and the dynamic I witnessed between the mother and daughter was entirely consistent with the stories my GF told me about her troubled childhood (where she went so far as cutting herself) and adult issues prior to her Mother’s arrival.

[JimStewart]

19 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Well, guess what. Newsflash. Not just in Russia, but in any other country you care to name.  Family violence is, sadly, quite endemic everywhere. All too often the perpetrator is never even reported, let alone fined!

 

That's actually an interesting point.  During my relationship my GF was rather physical.  For example, she would hit me at times on multiple occasions and I'm not talking little love taps.  Each time she did I would politely ask her not to do that.  I am the opposite.  When my parents hit me as a child I swore I would never hit my children and certainly never hit a girl and I had two sisters.  She did it so reflexively it seemed to me like this was a behavior learned from childhood.  I even told her I thought this, but she kept on doing it as thought it really was reflexive for her.  I asked her if she would do this to our children if we had kids.

 

[LaHermes]

2 minutes ago, JimStewart said:

if a person, regardless of who they are, is rude and disrespectful, the person who they are being rude and disrespectful to has a right to stand up for themselves and not be disrespected and treated rudely.  Perhaps it is a cultural thing but being okay with being treated rudely or being okay with being disrespected is not a good thing and not okay in my book nor was that how I was raised by my parents.

I totally and wholly agree with you on that point OP.  Basic good manners are universal, and a sign of civilization.  It doesn't take much effort to just grunt out the words "thank you". But then you know the saying about the sow's ear.

Sure, as I said in my first post, you did go OTT with the "welcoming spree" lol. And she does need to stand on her own two feet. 

But that aside, and I have travelled extensively and lived abroad, when you are in another country and someone does you a kindness (I don't care if you are from Mars or Narnia!) you at the very least say thank you, that was kind of you.  And you certainly follow the "when in Rome" advice. 

As I said earlier, OP, you are well rid of them. 

[boltnrun]

There's a lot of cultural influence as well. I had a roommate from Turkey and she told me she thought it was horrible and cruel how Americans just abandon their parents and leave them to fend for themselves. She lived with her mother and grandmother and would never dream of leaving them. Apparently in Turkey when you marry you either stay with your parents or your spouse's parents. And my son's spouse is from an Asian country and has invited me to live with them several times. You should see the look of horror on my son's face lol.

In the US you are generally considered a loser or undatable or a "momma's boy" if you live with your parents beyond age 20 or so.

Anyway, bottom line this woman is not the right one for you. Good that you discovered this now before you became more involved.

[abitbroken]

6 hours ago, JimStewart said:

With the eggs, her mother asserted her point. I did not try and prove her wrong. I stated I believed chickens lay eggs fertilized or not, but then I stated, “I’m not certain so I’ll look it up.”  So I did what any fact-checker does, I Googled it.  At the time, it was simply (I thought) a good natured discussion.

That is really something trivial that you didn't need to "factcheck". She wasn't about to put up a hutch and buy chickens, so it was just small talk.  

 

7 hours ago, JimStewart said:

Hello.  Tinydance and thank you for your thoughts and insight.  I do know what you mean as I had previously worked in Moscow and Novgorod where I met many Russians.  I managed a recording artist there and spent time with her and her Mother and sister at their summer house. 

In addition, I dated a girl from Russia for a number of years.  Her parents would come to LA and stay with her for months at a time and we all got along great!  We did road trips to San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Diego, etc.  We spent holidays together and had countless meals together. I even got the father a job while they were here in LA!  So I have probably more experience then most when it comes to the cultural differences.  But this was so off the reservation.   Your Mom sounds charming as were my prior girlfriend’s parents.  I wasn’t trying to prove her mom wrong about everything. With the eggs, her mother asserted her point. I did not try and prove her wrong. I stated I believed chickens lay eggs fertilized or not, but then I stated, “I’m not certain so I’ll look it up.”  So I did what any fact-checker does, I Googled it.  At the time, it was simply (I thought) a good natured discussion.

Tinydance is FROM Russia (even if she hasn't been their in awhile, her parents and relatives are also of that cultures) and you, who have merely visited Russia, are trying to explain your way out of a corner -- that you are really culturally knowledgeable, etc. , so therefore its appropriate to expect to school mom when she is "rude".  having your second Russian girlfriend does not make you understand daughter-mother Russian relationships.  You also could have been a different person back then as well.

My ex always "read up" on self help and would "diagnose" people's relationships - that my mom or dad was this or that. I had a healthy upbringing -- he met me in my early 20s when i was still kind of like in the "my parents are oppressive phase" which were just the growing pains of living with your parents as a young adult.

 

7 hours ago, JimStewart said:

Call me crazy though, if a person, regardless of who they are, is rude and disrespectful, the person who they are being rude and disrespectful to has a right to stand up for themselves and not be disrespected and treated rudely

The mother did nothing that was rude and disrespectful to you (other than a perceived tone or terseness that may come with English being a second or third language ) to warrant "standing up for yourself" Are you sure you weren't ready to pounce so to speak, or ready to respond to mom in a certain manner because your mind was already tainted by your GF's story and so you automatically painted mom in your mind as a disrespectful person?

Self esteem issues are universal. Some people didn't have the best golden childhood, say screw it and are successful anyways.  Your girlfriend is struggling to try to be famous for her self worth.  Two kids could grow up in the same household and one could have no self worth and the other could be confident as heck. 

[JimStewart]

On 9/1/2021 at 2:22 AM, Tinydance said:

The mother was only visiting and she was going to go home eventually. So really who cares what she thought but you were trying too hard to fight with her. In a sense you should have just bitten your tongue and nodded and smiled. 

I agree and note further to your "eventually" the mother would go home. 

The mother was supposed to be hear in LA for one week.  After all, she has a 14 year old son and a husband and a job waiting for her in Moscow. 

Nevertheless, she is now here three weeks with she and my now Ex-girlfriend living in a studio apartment and sleeping in a twin bed together. The argument, which should have just been an argument if that at all, was the necessary fodder for the Mother to use to poison whatever relationship my now ex and I did have. 

What's interesting to me is that even before we dated I commented how she behaved like a candle in the wind and their codependency has only become that much more apparent to me these past 2-3 weeks.  What a rude awakening this experience was.  C'est la vie.

 

 

[Tinydance]

18 minutes ago, JimStewart said:

I agree and note further to your "eventually" the mother would go home. 

The mother was supposed to be hear in LA for one week.  After all, she has a 14 year old son and a husband and a job waiting for her in Moscow. 

Nevertheless, she is now here three weeks with she and my now Ex-girlfriend living in a studio apartment and sleeping in a twin bed together. The argument, which should have just been an argument if that at all, was the necessary fodder for the Mother to use to poison whatever relationship my now ex and I did have. 

What's interesting to me is that even before we dated I commented how she behaved like a candle in the wind and their codependency has only become that much more apparent to me these past 2-3 weeks.  What a rude awakening this experience was.  C'est la vie.

 

 

So you haven't heard from your ex ever since? Look I'm sorry to say but I just think that maybe your ex-girlfriend wasn't really that into you or in love with you. She seems to have dropped you way too fast after you'd already been dating for six months. If she really wanted to work it out then surely she'd try?

Just in regards to Russian people though and Russian culture. You are supposed to respect people that are older. In Russia we use a different form of the word "you", depending on whether you're speaking to someone older or more superior like your manager, or just a friend or relative. When it's someone older and especially if you don't know them much you address them by the formal "you". Older Russian people also feel like they can "instruct" younger people. For example, even here in Australia this old lady was talking to me but she didn't realise I was also Russian. It was a cold winter day and I was at the tram stop and sat on the metal seat. And the lady said to me in English: "Don't sit there, it's cold and not good for a woman". I think meaning not good for "down there". This was just a random woman I'd never met in my life but she was older so in a sense felt like she's wiser and was looking out for me.

Also Russian people can be blunt just in the sense that they are very honest and they don't use polite phrases like: "Sorry sorry" "If you don't mind", "OK sir". But that doesn't necessarily mean they are actually a jerk on purpose and they hate you or anything like that. This is just part of the culture.

On the other hand of course some people just don't get along and don't click, and some do. And that doesn't always depend on nationality or culture. I think where you went wrong is if that you didn't realise that it was a case of "picking your battles". So basically if something isn't that important then why bother? You were dating your girlfriend, not her mother. The mother was going to leave and would be gone and not a problem for you anymore. Your main focus should have been on your girlfriend and just trying to get by with the mother. I think you really didn't understand how to just get along and handle the situation.

I think it's not even necessarily cultural but if you have any girlfriend and her mother is saying stuff but it's not about you, just be like; "Yeah OK, sure". That doesn't mean that you agree and in your own mind you can be thinking anything you like. But this is just to make sure that your relationship goes smoothly. You have to understand too that when faced with choosing their parent or someone they dated only for six months, who do you think the person would choose? The parent is their family and the closest person to them and boyfriends come and go.

[greendots]

I am not familiar with Russian culture at all, but I honestly think this situation you're in happened because you went against her mother.

Let's say that you are 100% right and have heaps of evidence. If your girlfriend's mom or dad say ABC is the way to go; then, ABC is the way to go. It's about trying to get along with them. Privately, you address your concerns with your girlfriend.

I think, that's what happened.

[Tinydance]

6 minutes ago, greendots said:

I am not familiar with Russian culture at all, but I honestly think this situation you're in happened because you went against her mother.

Let's say that you are 100% right and have heaps of evidence. If your girlfriend's mom or dad say ABC is the way to go; then, ABC is the way to go. It's about trying to get along with them. Privately, you address your concerns with your girlfriend.

I think, that's what happened.

Yes. I think also it's not necessary to go on Google and be like: "I'm right, look here is the evidence". That is patronising. And especially about things which actually don't matter, like the eggs and chicken thing. What does that really have to do with your relationship, the mother visiting L.A., your plans? Basically nothing. And to be perfect honest, if you are older and you have a much younger person trying to "school" you, it is irrirating. I'm 36 and let's say if I had a 15-year-old going on Google about trivial things and being like: "Ha ha, I proved you wrong." I would be like: "Buzz off" lol 

[JimStewart]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

Yes. I think also it's not necessary to go on Google and be like: "I'm right, look here is the evidence". That is patronising. And especially about things which actually don't matter, like the eggs and chicken thing. What does that really have to do with your relationship, the mother visiting L.A., your plans? Basically nothing. And to be perfect honest, if you are older and you have a much younger person trying to "school" you, it is irrirating. I'm 36 and let's say if I had a 15-year-old going on Google about trivial things and being like: "Ha ha, I proved you wrong." I would be like: "Buzz off" lol 

I hear what you're saying, but this went beyond that. I have worked in Russia. I managed famous talent in Russia where we were on numerous TV shows, performed at major events, etc.  So I am probably more familiar with Russians than most non-Russians.  Moreover, my prior GF, who I dated on and off for years, and who I spent many hours with her parents, was also Russian.  We spent countless hours together, for example, going on roadtrips to Las Vegas, San Fransisco, as well as holiday, etc., and I got along great with her parents!  In fact, I have gotten along with all of my Ex's parents.

The mother had my GF very young so she is that much older than me and I have a doctorate degree, so not like a teenager trying to school an elder here.

The key point at this point is my GF showed so little fortitude or loyalty to me or to our relationship. 

I get what people say about a person's Mom, but on the other hand, I know MANY people who have gone against their parents wishes regarding who they date, who they marry, etc.  Life (and the movies) would be pretty boring if every adult child did exactly what their parents wanted them to do.

Being an adult means learning to have a mind of one's own.  A 30 year old woman, who says she wants to get married and have kids in the next few years, should not act like a child.  I believe a person who is mature, independent and psychologically healthy knows when and where to assert her independence, and if you are serious about building a life and a new family with a man, then you should have the ability to stand up to your Mom.

I have noticed the mother plays the victim like my GF would frequently do so I see the pattern.

My father made a good point:  Rather than be manipulated by the Mother (who after I stated we should put petroleum jelly on my GF's foot to avoid irritation during a 5 mile hike that she would not get in the car with me), he asked why me and my GF did not leave and go on the hike.  Would we let a spoiled child ruin the day and manipulate people?  No, of course not. So why let a grown woman act like a child having a temper tantrum and manipulate the circumstances. 

Here is where by GF was acting like a little girl.  She should have taken control of the situation and said we are going on the hike. She was in a position to moderate and be an adult.  I was her BF and the other person was her Mother.  She had the position and power to sway both sides.

But rather than do that, she cowered and supported her Mother, despite her mother being wrong.

The other reality is the Mother is still here in LA now on three weeks.  Growing up as a child my mother never left me for 3 weeks.  Here, the Mother is not on some work assignment.  She is choosing to extend her stay and not see her 14 year old son or her husband.

I saw this person first hand and I saw how my GF acted around her and both were unhealthy. 

I also think back to the basic premise of "dysfunctional', i.e., whether a person can maintain significant relationships and whether they are productive in their work or school.  Now as my former GF is in her 30s and has yet to establish her career, or for that matter, actually really decide upon one, and she has told me of her prior turbulent relationships, while I am hurt I cannot say logically I should be surprised by these events.  To the contrary, they are consistent with a person who has the characteristics I observed in my former GF, including a distinct lack of empathy.

Like many romantic relationships, losing something you had is painful, regardless of what the head thinks and knows and regardless of whether the person had the capacity to forge a long-term healthy relationship.  The head and the heart are not the same and having one's heart hurt is painful, notwithstanding the brain's understandings.

 

[MissCanuck]

Be careful about right-fighter tendencies, OP. 

 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, JimStewart said:

 my GF showed so little fortitude or loyalty to me or to our relationship. 

Agree. You and your recent ex GF were not meant to be together. It doesn't matter that you got in arguments with the mother.

You're simply incompatible. The mother's visit brought that out.

You can demonize the mother all you want. However on some level you know your lack of respect for your recent ex GF is the real reason for the demise of this relationship.

[LaHermes]

I am still with you on this issue, OP.  

7 hours ago, JimStewart said:

Would we let a spoiled child ruin the day and manipulate people?  No, of course not. So why let a grown woman act like a child having a temper tantrum and manipulate the circumstances. 

Rudeness is rudeness, regardless of "culture".  Nothing wrong with being blunt and forthright, which is NOT the same as being rude and ill-mannered.   We have rude wagons here too, and they are not from Russia either!

Definitely, OP, you went OTT with the welcoming spree, so OK, that was a mistake. 

But you know what, OP, you are well rid of them all.  In a way Mommy dearest was, so to speak, "the hand of destiny" L.  Now you won't be marrying into that kind of dysfunction.  Next time do look long and hard at the background of the person. And always remember this: "You can't get pears off an elm tree". 

7 hours ago, JimStewart said:

Being an adult means learning to have a mind of one's own.

Quite so. But you have seen, however painfully,that your ex is not adult in that sense, if she is scared witless by her mother.

Best of luck going forward.

[greendots]

18 hours ago, JimStewart said:

But rather than do that, she cowered and supported her Mother, despite her mother being wrong.

The other reality is the Mother is still here in LA now on three weeks.  Growing up as a child my mother never left me for 3 weeks.  Here, the Mother is not on some work assignment.  She is choosing to extend her stay and not see her 14 year old son or her husband.

I saw this person first hand and I saw how my GF acted around her and both were unhealthy. 

Most of us aren't questioning that your girlfriend could've handled this situation differently, or how her mother might have been overbearing. They have a certain family dynamic, you either learn to deal with it (trying to get along) or find someone who's more compatible with you.

So, yeah as Wiseman stated

13 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're simply incompatible. The mother's visit brought that out.

 

[Tinydance]

20 hours ago, JimStewart said:

I hear what you're saying, but this went beyond that. I have worked in Russia. I managed famous talent in Russia where we were on numerous TV shows, performed at major events, etc.  So I am probably more familiar with Russians than most non-Russians.  Moreover, my prior GF, who I dated on and off for years, and who I spent many hours with her parents, was also Russian.  We spent countless hours together, for example, going on roadtrips to Las Vegas, San Fransisco, as well as holiday, etc., and I got along great with her parents!  In fact, I have gotten along with all of my Ex's parents.

The mother had my GF very young so she is that much older than me and I have a doctorate degree, so not like a teenager trying to school an elder here.

The key point at this point is my GF showed so little fortitude or loyalty to me or to our relationship. 

I get what people say about a person's Mom, but on the other hand, I know MANY people who have gone against their parents wishes regarding who they date, who they marry, etc.  Life (and the movies) would be pretty boring if every adult child did exactly what their parents wanted them to do.

Being an adult means learning to have a mind of one's own.  A 30 year old woman, who says she wants to get married and have kids in the next few years, should not act like a child.  I believe a person who is mature, independent and psychologically healthy knows when and where to assert her independence, and if you are serious about building a life and a new family with a man, then you should have the ability to stand up to your Mom.

I have noticed the mother plays the victim like my GF would frequently do so I see the pattern.

My father made a good point:  Rather than be manipulated by the Mother (who after I stated we should put petroleum jelly on my GF's foot to avoid irritation during a 5 mile hike that she would not get in the car with me), he asked why me and my GF did not leave and go on the hike.  Would we let a spoiled child ruin the day and manipulate people?  No, of course not. So why let a grown woman act like a child having a temper tantrum and manipulate the circumstances. 

Here is where by GF was acting like a little girl.  She should have taken control of the situation and said we are going on the hike. She was in a position to moderate and be an adult.  I was her BF and the other person was her Mother.  She had the position and power to sway both sides.

But rather than do that, she cowered and supported her Mother, despite her mother being wrong.

The other reality is the Mother is still here in LA now on three weeks.  Growing up as a child my mother never left me for 3 weeks.  Here, the Mother is not on some work assignment.  She is choosing to extend her stay and not see her 14 year old son or her husband.

I saw this person first hand and I saw how my GF acted around her and both were unhealthy. 

I also think back to the basic premise of "dysfunctional', i.e., whether a person can maintain significant relationships and whether they are productive in their work or school.  Now as my former GF is in her 30s and has yet to establish her career, or for that matter, actually really decide upon one, and she has told me of her prior turbulent relationships, while I am hurt I cannot say logically I should be surprised by these events.  To the contrary, they are consistent with a person who has the characteristics I observed in my former GF, including a distinct lack of empathy.

Like many romantic relationships, losing something you had is painful, regardless of what the head thinks and knows and regardless of whether the person had the capacity to forge a long-term healthy relationship.  The head and the heart are not the same and having one's heart hurt is painful, notwithstanding the brain's understandings.

 

Yes, it is definitely painful that your girlfriend didn't seem very loyal to you in the end and was happy to just erase six months of your whole relationship just because of this one tiff with her mother. Especially as the mother was just going to go back to Moscow and wasn't going to actually be there anymore and wasn't going to be able to meddle in your relationship.

I think at the end of the day it just looks like maybe you and the mother just didn't "gel" or "click". To be really honest it sounds to me like both you and the mother are headstrong and want to prove that you're right, and this is where you clashed. Now I'm actually not saying that the mother WAS right, but she wanted to prove that she was right. And really it sounds like so did you.

I understand everything you're saying and obviously I don't know you but just from what you're writing it sounds to me a bit like you sometimes don't really see where something isn't really your business or where it's best to just keep your opinion to yourself.

I want to just let you know that I'm really not defending your girlfriend and her Mum because they're Russian and my background is Russian. Even if you told me they were any other nationality, I still think that you could have handled it better. I think it's OK to try to prove that you're right when it really matters, and sometimes it just doesn't really matter. And it's not even necessarily a case that the mother is older or from another culture, but it's the fact that you are dating someone and it's their family.

You saw that your girlfriend and her mother were very close, maybe even too close. Just as well it may have been a sister that she was really close with and the sister came to visit. Most people value their family (I do for example) and especially if they are close with their family, regardless of the culture. So going against that family member, and about something kind of petty I might add, isn't in your best interests if you want to continue the relationship with your girlfriend. I'm not saying that family member is a good person or right, but it's in YOUR best interests to just play nice and get along with them because you want your relationship to go smoothly.

Also, no offence but you said a few times now how the mother was only meant to stay for a week but now she's staying for three weeks and to you that seems clingy and co-dependent. First of all I don't think that just the staying for three weeks in and of itself makes them co-dependent. The mother lives on the other side of the world and obviously never gets to see her daughter. It's very clear they're really close, so she probably really misses her. It's a very long and expensive flight from Moscow to LA, so it makes sense to stay longer just based on the fact how much money and effort it takes to travel there. I don't think it automatically makes her a bad person just because she's not straight away going back to her son and husband in Moscow. Obviously her son is with his father, so it's not like he's actually alone. How long the mother is staying isn't really any of your business and I'm not sure why you keep mentioning it.

Your girlfriend probably is co-dependent but if you think about it, so was your relationship with her. I can't remember if you said you're actually older than her, but you were acting like you're this established older man and helping her with her career, driving her everywhere, buying things for her, doing everything for her. As you say, she's a 30-year-old woman but yet you were doing all this for her. So you were also participating in this co-dependent relationship. And if you're some kind of music producer, well educated and well off then could it be possible that your girlfriend was actually using you? Maybe she didn't really have true strong feelings for you but she wanted your help with her pop star career and as well as all the lifts in the car, etc. You seemed a bit too willing to be at her beck and call and of course that made it easy for her to be with you.

I would suggest not doing too many of these things for a woman, not helping with her career or going too much out of your way for her. Then if she's dating you, you would have more proof that she's actually into you as a person and not just all the things you can do for her.

[JimStewart]

On 9/8/2021 at 4:05 PM, Tinydance said:

I understand everything you're saying and obviously I don't know you but just from what you're writing it sounds to me a bit like you sometimes don't really see where something isn't really your business or where it's best to just keep your opinion to yourself.

Thank you for your comments.  I'd note this was my business. My then GF had her foot stung by a bee before her Mother arrived and we (GF and I) were dealing with it together.  The morning of the incident my GF and I were texting and on the phone, and the TM show her reaching out to me, notwithstanding her mother being in her apartment, complaining about the pain in her foot and how she wanted to go to the ER and my stating I would take a look at her foot when I arrived at her apartment.  I shared the TM with a friend who also happens to be Russian and she stated the messages showed the story exactly as I had told her.  So this was my business.

I am a realist and I have traveled more than most non-Russians to and in Russia and I have spent more time than most with Russians in Russia and in the U.S.  This is not a cultural thing.  This is a dysfunctional family thing.

By the way, flights between Moscow and LA can be had for under $800 round trip so expense is not an issue, particularly where the mother is not renting a car nor paying for a hotel.  The mother who claims to be a doctor.

I can tell you growing up as a child my Mother never left me or my siblings for three weeks to go hang out in LA.  I can't imagine my siblings and my father being without my Mother so she can have fun in some far away city.  My GF is 30 something while her brother back home in Moscow is just 14 and soon it will be a month that his Mom has been away from home.  Sorry, in my book, that's not normal.

I have observed both, the now ex GF and the mother, and there is a definite dysfunctional co-dependency.  Another friend familiar with them remarked there was definitely a dysfunctional co-dependency. She noted the complexity as the Mother was the enabler of the physically/sexually abusive alcoholic father.  She states the mother saw me as a threat to her control over her daughter and she  manipulated my GF to push me out of the picture.