Becoming left on the shelf

[dias]

9 hours ago, Fudgie said:

I wouldn't want her life for myself. She has placed so much stock and value in her appearance and what other people think of her that the idea of aging gives her so much anxiety, it makes her feel sick.

That is because she chose to live her life based on her gift. It was her decision. If she has anxiety it is probably because she never cultivated other sides of her personality and never chose to do difficult things (consistently) which had nothing to do with looks. I don't know your friend obviously but usually this is the case. 

[Fudgie]

58 minutes ago, dias said:

That is because she chose to live her life based on her gift. It was her decision. If she has anxiety it is probably because she never cultivated other sides of her personality and never chose to do difficult things (consistently) which had nothing to do with looks. I don't know your friend obviously but usually this is the case. 

It's somewhat true, yes. She's not vapid, or else I wouldn't associate with her. She does have other good traits but yeah, I don't think she cultivated them as much as she could have. And her sense of self worth is very tied up in the positive attention she receives from others ( namely men) so she's already worrying about losing that, or some of that, when she's older. Which will happen. 

We are very opposite in that way but it facilitates friendship somehow. It's like we are in different dimensions but find the other one interesting! 

[boltnrun]

I'm getting older so I certainly cannot rely on my appearance.  My hair is mostly gray, my butt sags a bit, my legs are not firm and I have lines between my eyebrows.  But I still think I'm a hot tamale because I'm smart and sassy and I like to laugh. I read and keep up on current events and I like to be outside. So even though I'm no beauty I can still hold my own.

The secret is getting to where you realize you're a pretty cool person and you like who you are. If you don't like who you are, how is anyone else supposed to?

[Carnatic]

18 hours ago, Fudgie said:

I think you have gotten a lot of good advice so far and don't have much to add on that front. While undergoing positive change in your lifestyle is good, I would definitely caution you against pursuing or dating until you feel back to your baseline, given that you have undergone a med change. 

I'm not really sure I am going to be pursing or dating anyway... I've never quite done that before in my life and I don't really feel like suddenly now women are going to start finding me attractive. We ended up talking about self-improvement a lot, and physical attraction but really I just felt like getting off my chest how i was feeling. I quite genuinely don't see it as in any way realistic that any changes I could make to my life, my physical appearance or anything else I could possibly offer in a relationship would actually make a difference.

It's just the way it's always been as far as I can tell. People here don't know me so I do understand the desire to help me see the good in myself, and I do have things to offer as a friend to people, I do alright for friends... but also I feel like if people here knew me in real life then they would probably know why I'm not considered attractive, romantically.

[boltnrun]

If you're not interested in making any changes or improvements and you think any and all efforts are a waste of time...then maybe you don't really want to date. Maybe your life at home with your parents and your computer is fulfilling enough.

You don't have to have a girlfriend, you know. If you don't really want to, don't. 

[Andrina]

When I go out to eat or to the store, it's not like all the couples look like Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. In fact, the majority don't. Romance isn't only reserved for people who look one particular way.

[Carnatic]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

If you're not interested in making any changes or improvements and you think any and all efforts are a waste of time...then maybe you don't really want to date. Maybe your life at home with your parents and your computer is fulfilling enough.

You don't have to have a girlfriend, you know. If you don't really want to, don't. 

I don't live with my parents

[Carnatic]

2 hours ago, Andrina said:

When I go out to eat or to the store, it's not like all the couples look like Faith Hill and Tim McGraw. In fact, the majority don't. Romance isn't only reserved for people who look one particular way.

I'm not saying that. I'm perfectly aware of the vastness of the population that fall between magazine cover beautiful and attractive enough that someone will be into you. I'm just saying I don't think I fall within that population, and not at the good end.

I don't like to get all statistical about love, but maybe at this point in my life it's time to, for my own good. I must have encountered thousands of women in the past, let's say 20 years. Not a single one of those has shown any sign of attraction. Maybe there's some woman out there who is 'the one' but also maybe it's time to recognise as a distinct possibility that there will never be. Far more attractive and interesting people than me have gone through life without ever finding someone.

I've always tried to look on the bright side, tried to interpret a subtle smile or a flirty if inebriated conversation as a sign of possible attraction but right now the realisation I just described feels massive and unavoidable like a billboard.

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Carnatic said:

I don't live with my parents

Ok, good, but what about everything else I wrote?

[Carnatic]

6 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Ok, good, but what about everything else I wrote?

I wouldn't have created this thread if I was just totally happy to be single all the time but I go back and forth between being accepting of the  situation and wishing I could change it.

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Carnatic said:

I wouldn't have created this thread if I was just totally happy to be single all the time but I go back and forth between being accepting of the  situation and wishing I could change it.

I get the back and forth -it's normal.  But you have to decide at what point the work and effort and time are worth it - 

[mical]

A famous Henry Ford quote, “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't – you're right,”

• With a majority of women, it just comes down to confidence.
• If you don't think you are good enough to attract women - you're right
• If you think you are good enough - you're also right

Try focusing more on creating a life you would love to live. Get back in shape, start going to a gym. Start socializing more with friends. Take that vacation you always wanted. If you are bored with your job, consider a new one..etc

Once you are in a place where you are happy with your life the right woman will come along and want to be a part of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bellaje]

how's it going Carnatic?

[bellaje]

hope things are better!

[Tinydance]

On 8/28/2021 at 3:19 AM, Carnatic said:

on that topic has anyone ever used 7cups?

I have. Mostly I just have advice and didn't really ask for advice. I got good reviews on there lol

[Tinydance]

Sorry I haven't read all the comments so sorry if I repeat things people already said. If you refer to yourself as "plain" then I would suggest you don't use Tinder. People don't even look at people's profiles on Tinder but only swipe on the photos. Maybe you could try using paid websites where people are looking for something serious and care more about who someone actually is rather than their looks.

I think most people are actually average looking. You see very overweight, disabled or unattractive people with someone so it's possible. So you don't want to date women with kids? I mean, I understand if you don't but some women with kids could actually be the right person for you.

[Fudgie]

Carnatic, 

I liked mical's statement about "whether or not you think you can or can't, you're right". I know that dating is a lot easier these days (speaking generally!) for women than it is for men but I have found this to be true for myself. 

I didn't see the part that Tiny dance referred to, about you not wanting to date women with kids. I totally get it. I would not date a man with children, regardless of his personality, wealth, etc. As I age, I find that more and more men have procreated and I'd rather be alone than risk being a step mom / babysitter. There's nothing wrong with that view but I do agree, some people do end up alone, whether it is due to their own issues and/or statistically, things just didn't work out. It can and does happen. 

The way I see it, you have two choices and you don't have to decide now: change yourself in the ways that you can and work hard to attract a mate OR remain as you are and embrace singledom. I don't believe that either choice is "better" or a moral slant to it. In some ways, I have chosen the second option and I feel a lot better for it. 

Think about it. I don't believe that romantic love/relationships are "worth it" for everyone. Maybe for many, but not for all. And that's OK but you need to be honest with yourself and go through the associated grieving process once you make that choice. 

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Fudgie said:

Carnatic, 

I liked mical's statement about "whether or not you think you can or can't, you're right". I know that dating is a lot easier these days (speaking generally!) for women than it is for men but I have found this to be true for myself. 

I didn't see the part that Tiny dance referred to, about you not wanting to date women with kids. I totally get it. I would not date a man with children, regardless of his personality, wealth, etc. As I age, I find that more and more men have procreated and I'd rather be alone than risk being a step mom / babysitter. There's nothing wrong with that view but I do agree, some people do end up alone, whether it is due to their own issues and/or statistically, things just didn't work out. It can and does happen. 

The way I see it, you have two choices and you don't have to decide now: change yourself in the ways that you can and work hard to attract a mate OR remain as you are and embrace singledom. I don't believe that either choice is "better" or a moral slant to it. In some ways, I have chosen the second option and I feel a lot better for it. 

Think about it. I don't believe that romantic love/relationships are "worth it" for everyone. Maybe for many, but not for all. And that's OK but you need to be honest with yourself and go through the associated grieving process once you make that choice. 

At the same time though I think that if you really want something and you really try, you will get it. Most people are not drop dead gorgeous. Most people are just average. Yes of course it's easier for attractive people with everything in life in general. Even with getting a job. But most people are not stunning, they are just your average Joe. I suppose people on online dating may be more shallow but just from the perspective that they'd never actually met you and all they can see are your photos. I think you should focus on meeting people in real life through Meetup groups, hobby classes, anything in real life really. I think when people get to know someone face to face, they may be more interested if they click with that person. If online dating isn't giving much results then maybe just don't bother with it anymore.

[Carnatic]

2 hours ago, Fudgie said:

Carnatic, 

I liked mical's statement about "whether or not you think you can or can't, you're right". I know that dating is a lot easier these days (speaking generally!) for women than it is for men but I have found this to be true for myself. 

I didn't see the part that Tiny dance referred to, about you not wanting to date women with kids. I totally get it. I would not date a man with children, regardless of his personality, wealth, etc. As I age, I find that more and more men have procreated and I'd rather be alone than risk being a step mom / babysitter. There's nothing wrong with that view but I do agree, some people do end up alone, whether it is due to their own issues and/or statistically, things just didn't work out. It can and does happen. 

The way I see it, you have two choices and you don't have to decide now: change yourself in the ways that you can and work hard to attract a mate OR remain as you are and embrace singledom. I don't believe that either choice is "better" or a moral slant to it. In some ways, I have chosen the second option and I feel a lot better for it. 

Think about it. I don't believe that romantic love/relationships are "worth it" for everyone. Maybe for many, but not for all. And that's OK but you need to be honest with yourself and go through the associated grieving process once you make that choice. 

I wouldn't say never, when it comes to dating women with children but my main dating outlet for the past few years (well especially the past couple given everything that's gone on in the world) has been dating websites (not just Tinder, I use Bumble too), and you get quite a lot of profiles there which are three or four photos of a woman, most of them with kids in and then a profile which says 'my kids are my world' or 'full time mum to...' and that's all. I also don't think people should be putting pictures of their kids on tinder.

I swipe right on those because kids aren't my cup of tea (my Mum's a childminder so it wasn't till I was 18 that I got to find out what it was like to live in a house without kids running around) and what other information do I have to go on, I probably assume that a woman who given the opportunity to tell you anything about herself she wants and chooses to make 'I have kids' the only thing is way more into being a mum than I could deal with.

If I met a woman 'in the wild' and had much more of a connection with her before learning about her kids it may well be different, but that has never come up.

I guess another thing that might play on my mind if it did come up is that when dating someone with kids, there's often another person,the other parent and I've seen a few times with friends who have dated parents have either had the other parent be a destructive force in the relationship, or had the relationship end abruptly because their boyfriend/girlfriend wanted to give it another go with the other parent. Not always of course, one of my best friends is a single parent and I know neither of those things are a factor for her, but then again her kids are grown up and moved out, and their dad is considerably older and now lives a few hundred miles away. I've probably seen relationships where one person is a single-parent end for a reason related to the other parent more often than not.

[Carnatic]

13 hours ago, bellaje said:

hope things are better!

Thanks... well I'm back off holiday and back to normal life. I felt I needed to get away but it probably didn't come at a good time emotionally for me because as nice as it is to be in new surroundings and eating in restaurants for a week, it also means going a week without socialising and meeting new people. When I was younger, holidays were great ways to meet new people, but now holidays (or at least family holidays) mean long walks with parents and early nights while watching other people socialising. I'm not complaining about the former, it's just the constant reminders of the latter weren't really helpful.

Busy work week this week though, networking event this morning, music gig this evening, so I'll see how I feel.

[Carnatic]

18 hours ago, mical said:

A famous Henry Ford quote, “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't – you're right,”

• With a majority of women, it just comes down to confidence.
• If you don't think you are good enough to attract women - you're right
• If you think you are good enough - you're also right

Try focusing more on creating a life you would love to live. Get back in shape, start going to a gym. Start socializing more with friends. Take that vacation you always wanted. If you are bored with your job, consider a new one..etc

Once you are in a place where you are happy with your life the right woman will come along and want to be a part of it.

It's a funny thing really, confidence.

I'll admit I've never been very confident but then that comes with knowing my limitations, unless I can somehow forget them then I'm not sure how to become more confident, and my fear is that acting confident will just cast light onto my limitations.

Those of my friends who are especially confident, I don't really see it as their best trait because of this they have lots of really positive traits but confidence seems to exaggerate their flaws and they're never as confident as they should be about the things that they can be genuinely confident about... sometimes to levels that seem a bit absurd; for example two of my friends who were bragging with each other the other week about which one of them had the smallest ego... that's just ironic.

Then there's those who aren't confident but pretend to be, and you see them dying inside, I feel that pain and I don't think I could do that. A lot of my friends are musicians and there's this expectation that musicians are really confident, but it also means that people who are good musicians but not super confident have to pretend to be confident.

I know some people who have the quiet confidence which I presume is the most attractive kind, but not many... and to be honest they aren't necessarily the most successful romantically either. I'm more just, I don't know... too aware of my flaws to be confident. I've had them spelled out to me too many times in life.

[Batya33]

Arrogance and bragging is not confidence.  I think humility in a quietly confident person is an awesome trait.  Very attractive.  There's no connection between flaws and confidence.  A confident person recognizes all his flaws, owns them, does what he or she can to work on improvement and treats herself with compassion and kindness without making excuses.  Swagger is not confidence. The person might be confident but being larger than life doesn't mean you have inner confidence.  

To me success romantically means -if you want a long term relationship - that you are good at knowing yourself, what you want in a partner, and sticking to your standards.  Success is finding the person you click with flaws and all. Success in casual dating and sexual encounters is a different sort of romantic "success".

I was 39 when my now husband and I started dating again.  He was 38.  No kids.  I chose not to date men with kids.  He never dated a woman with kids seriously either.  I went on a few dates with men with kids including a man whose ex girlfriend was in her third trimester.  Once she gave birth I realized it wasn't for me.

[mical]

3 hours ago, Carnatic said:

.

I know some people who have the quiet confidence which I presume is the most attractive kind,

Well it’s more about believing in yourself and knowing your worth vs arrogance.

It’s really about perspective really. Assuming you live in the USA you already are one of the most successful people on the planet. 
 

Pretty much you already have the intelligence and capability to achieve a majority of things you want. 
 

i think women are just attracted to a guy that has something he’s passionate about and confident he can be good at it.

 

Thats really it and it’s pretty simple.
 

Doesn’t matter if you want to be the best firefighter or accountant, as long as have some compelling goal to aim towards I think that’s what women find attractive.

We also tend to change but that’s ok! There are 2 great books I recommend - Awaken the Giant Within and also How to be 3% man. Actually I probably shouldnt share and give my secrets away  

also another thing, I’m also around your age and an idea that helps me from time to time is - “you are only 1 decision from a different life” which seems true and just one little change can have a very positive impact - like getting that new job etc 

 

 

All will work out! Best of luck!

 

[Fudgie]

9 hours ago, Carnatic said:

for example two of my friends who were bragging with each other the other week about which one of them had the smallest ego... that's just ironic.

Hahaha, this made me laugh!

I definitely put myself into the "quiet confidence" camp, although I used to have less confidence, I have more so now. I'm at the point where, honestly, I really like myself and it feels great. However, I agree with you, confidence alone is not enough. The truth is that we all have one or more things that can hinder our ability to connect with others in the way that we want to or some of us decide, because of these things and other factors, that it's best not to attempt and that's okay too.

There is a lot of freedom and power in being able to look at relationships and coming to the conclusion not to pursue. Of course, there's the risk of loneliness, decreased financial security, etc. but there is risk with partnering up too. You just have to weigh what is important to you and realize that no matter what "path" you choose, you will always have the odd moment where you wonder "what if" you took the other path. 

And don't let anyone tell you that if you have the odd "what if" moment, it means you're unhappy. Absolutely not. As long as it doesn't bother you and you're not ruminating on it, it's fine. It's a very human thing to do. I have sometimes thought about the possible outcomes, had I made different choices in life, taken different opportunities, or followed different trajectories. Could I have done better in some areas? Sure, and we all do.

I do wish you happiness, whatever that looks like for you. 

[abitbroken]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:07 PM, Carnatic said:

Thanks... and this is your first post, sounds like you'll fit in well here (well I'm only just back after a loooong hiatus from this site).

It's a nice positive story, I enjoyed reading it.

With clothes, I have this weird attitude that buying clothes that fit me now is like giving up that I will always be this weight... I have some lovely clothes from a few years back that I would like to wear again... also a couple of times where something bought for me didn't fit me but I couldn't get it exchanged for something in my size, so I kept it instead.

It's difficult to find nice clothes when you're big, charity shops never stock clothes in your size, it's too expensive for independent stores to stock much above XL and most big clothing stores only have my size in the 'generic slogan t-shirt and plain button shirt' sizes. Back when I was younger, I mentioned earlier, even when I was doing an intense level of exercise and eating healthy home-cooked meals I was still 'fat' but at least I was just at the upper end of the range where I could buy nice clothes. That's when I got all these clothes, I loved exploring places for things I felt went along with my image of myself. I long to be able to wear those again.

You can do something about being over an XL.  I mean, if you are 7' tall maybe not and you can be in proportion, but if you are of average height, a friend of mine had good luck with an app called Noom -- its not a diet app per say but it reprograms you to start making better choices. I would get a physical, check your thyroid out, make sure you are not allergic to any foods as well. Believe it or not, some food allergies can cause you to keep weight on because you are basically poisoning yourself.

Some women like big guys - but you have to have an engaging personality and a healthy sense of self worth to attract them. 

You say you are "plain" - congratulations - a very small percentage of men are astonishingly attractive and a small percentage of men look like quasimodo (the latter can overcome that by having a great sense of humor, being a good listener, or very intellectually interesting especially if they are not looking to marry a supermodel) . A larger group of men are average looking -- and by the numbers, women must be marrying more of the group in the middle

Work on what's inside mentally and a lot of other things will follow