Do I call?

[bsim627]

So my girlfriend of about 1.5 years (37yo and I'm 35) was supposed to move in at the end of the month, but she started acting a bit distant around conversations about it.  I asked her if she wasn't planning to move in anymore and she said "I'm thinking about it." When I asked why she said "I don't know really" and was really dismissive like it wasn't a big deal (this is only two weeks before I was expecting her).  So I let it rest for 24 hours and brought it up the next day letting her know how I felt about it and she didn't understand why I would be upset and I said "because it kind of feels like you're tying up loose ends."

She went off about "I feel like we're just friends, and that I'm just a person that's around, and you can't tell me why you love me and it's just because I make it so you're not alone, and we've never had an actual conversation about what our relationship is."  Which led to a conversation about where my head was at regarding our relationship.  It wasn't really an argument, she cried a lot, hugged and kissed me throughout, kept telling me that she really does love me, etc... but ultimately it ended with her saying "I'm going to go, I need to think about things."  She was stopped and turned around at the door several times like she wanted to tell me something or wanted me to stop her, but I agree she should think about it.  I would rather have a horrible breakup now than a divorce/etc. a couple years from now especially if kids might be in the mix at that point.

This happened once before for similar reasons and we actually broke up for a bit.  During that time she never went a day without talking to me (actually I was trying to not speak with her and she wouldn't allow it).  This time around we didn't actually break up, but it has been dead silence since July 17th (which actually included my birthday as an extra kick when I'm down).  To be fair I haven't reached out to her either.  I didn't make it clear that I would be waiting to hear from her, but that didn't seem necessary since she was the one that wanted time.

On one hand 10 days of thinking doesn't seem unreasonable when considering major life changes, on the other 10 days of silence in a relationship seems excessive.  I felt like I was just respecting her need for thinking space, but that feeling is fading.  She handled our temporary breakup around the one year mark with a text message, so she's not the greatest with difficult conversations and that's probably part of it.  Unfortunately I realize that would mean the decision is likely not in my favor.  So not sure... do I keep waiting?  If so, how long is long enough?

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

She went off about "I feel like we're just friends, and that I'm just a person that's around, and you can't tell me why you love me and it's just because I make it so you're not alone, and we've never had an actual conversation about what our relationship is." 

Sorry to hear this. Are you planning on being roommates? It seems she thinks you're not in a romantic relationship. 

[bsim627]

25 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear this. Are you planning on being roommates? It seems she thinks you're not in a romantic relationship. 

Yeah that’s definitely what is going on. The first time she said the same thing. Then after a 5 or 6 week split she said everything was different and she saw that I was invested and then over the 3 months or so since then she is having second thoughts again… sounds like she thinks I don’t want a romantic relationship, not necessarily that she doesn’t want one, but she’s concerned about it.

To be clear I never said that I only love her because I’m not lonely anymore… that’s just  how she is perceiving it.

Edit: oh and no I’m not going to be roommates with her. When we broke up before she said nothing else is going to change and we would still hang out all the time and I told her no, but she broke down crying (like ugly crying). So I said I would try for her. This time around though I think it’s all or nothing. I don’t want to go through that whirlwind again. 

[MissCanuck]

Where are all her doubts about your feelings coming from? 

Is she correct that you're kind of distant, or? It's not clear from your post what you said to her when discussing where your head is at with this relationship. 

[DarkCh0c0]

@bsim627 I'm sorry about this. How do you usually show her love?

Unfortunately, it seems like she's checking out. She's not feeling it. Better let her go and find someone who wouldn't have constant doubts about your love/relationship.

[Kwothe28]

Sounds like she has doubts. Which makes me really wonder why she agreed to move in. "We never had conversation about relationship" sounds that her, not you, doesnt really think you guys are ready for next step. Meaning that she is the one that maybe thinks you guys are casual. Did she had serious commitment before? She has good age but her actions dont match that. Usually you dont act like that at 37. Which makes me think she has some commitment issues

I would reach out. Ask how she is and get her to talk in person. You dont do yourself any favor by postponing it until she informs you about the decision. 

[bsim627]

4 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Where are all her doubts about your feelings coming from? 

Is she correct that you're kind of distant, or? It's not clear from your post what you said to her when discussing where your head is at with this relationship. 

The first time I wasn’t super surprised by this. We were both getting a little stale and routine. That one had the honeymoon phase ended kind of feeling.

This time her mom was just here and I guess her mom made a comment about the fact that when we were all together I never touched her… I was raised to keep my hands off of women in front of their parents (although my dads relationship skills might not be the best to go by)… so she said “well how do you think your family would feel if I didn’t show affection in front of them?” So that SEEMS to be where it came from this time around.

She wants kids and at 37 I think she wants to fast track that. Which is fine. She also doesn’t want to live in this state forever which is also fine, but I own a home that needs to be fixed up and sold and it’s going to take a few years. So I laid out everything that I wanted with her. Marriage, family, etc… but also explained the house situation and told her that she would have to be ok with starting a family here and relocating later… maybe she’s worried that I am going to get her stuck here with a family and never plan to leave.

That is also one of the moments where she said “but why do you want a family and a life with ME?”

But I also feel like I put it in a place where she either agrees and accepts the future I laid out and we can work on the other thing (this would only be the beginning of the conversation cuz it can’t happen a third time)… or she disagrees and we can both move on. I would like to think she would do the right thing in that case and let me know. She actually is in a position where she could quite literally disappear from my life since her lease is up in 10 days and her job is in a different state, which she was talking about moving to before deciding that she wanted to stay here and be with me. 

1 minute ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

@bsim627 I'm sorry about this. How do you usually show her love?

Unfortunately, it seems like she's checking out. She's not feeling it. Better let her go and find someone who wouldn't have constant doubts about your love/relationship.

I do little things. Cute notes. Little thoughtful/sentimental gifts. Cook for her or with her. We have little “us” things like waking up in the morning and drawing pictures on the bathroom mirror for the other to find.

I agree with you on the checking out. I feel like I caught it in time to nip it this time, but that relies on her being willing to finish this conversation and then moving on to the next step. 

[Wiseman2]

Whose idea is it to move in? She seems adverse to the idea.

It sounds like she doesn't want to be a live-in housekeeper/roommate. She's pretty clear that you are lukewarm and cold to her.

[bsim627]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Whose idea is it to move in? She seems adverse to the idea.

It sounds like she doesn't want to be a live-in housekeeper/roommate. She's pretty clear that you are lukewarm and cold to her.

I actually think she was the first to bring it up… she was the one that told my family about it. 

[bsim627]

15 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Sounds like she has doubts. Which makes me really wonder why she agreed to move in. "We never had conversation about relationship" sounds that her, not you, doesnt really think you guys are ready for next step. Meaning that she is the one that maybe thinks you guys are casual. Did she had serious commitment before? She has good age but her actions dont match that. Usually you dont act like that at 37. Which makes me think she has some commitment issues

I would reach out. Ask how she is and get her to talk in person. You dont do yourself any favor by postponing it until she informs you about the decision. 

She is divorced and has had some other bad relationships in the past. I’m sure that it plays into the cold feet. I know she doesn’t think I’m anything like the past guys… but maybe thinks I have some warning signs that I could end up that way. Or leave her feeling the same.

[MissCanuck]

13 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

The first time I wasn’t super surprised by this. We were both getting a little stale and routine.

And did this improve after the first break-up?

14 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

so she said “well how do you think your family would feel if I didn’t show affection in front of them?” So that SEEMS to be where it came from this time around.

Yes, but it was likely something had weighed on her before Mom made any comments. When you're on your own together, what is your quality time like? Do you have date nights? Cuddle? Show affection in other ways?

16 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

she said “but why do you want a family and a life with ME?”

How did you respond to this?

What I'm hearing is that she did not feel special to you. Whether or not that was accurate, only you can say. But it sounds like she felt that you two were more friends than lovers at this point. At just 1.5 years, it's not a good sign, especially with one break-up already behind you. 

[Lambert]

Do you really want to be with someone that can go ten days without talking to you? 

you're both kind of leaving it up to the other person to take charge.  

Maybe she wants you to chase her or follow her. But you're OK giving her space and think that is the way to handle it. basically a stalemate. right? 

You've got to have better communication than this. Are you holding back? is it her?

in your shoes I would be very confused by this and end it.  You're taking marriage, family, kids, relocating and she's concerned you didn't seen affectionate in front of her family?  what? 

Petty stuff like valuing perceptions over real things like how connected you are, how much you're on the same page etc is very immature and makes me wonder- are you dodging a bullet? because this isn't love and commitment. this is hoop jumping bs 

[DancingFool]

3 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

She is divorced and has had some other bad relationships in the past. I’m sure that it plays into the cold feet. I know she doesn’t think I’m anything like the past guys… but maybe thinks I have some warning signs that I could end up that way. Or leave her feeling the same.

Sometimes it's not the other guys who were bad, it's her who is the common denominator and I think you are experiencing that. Her behavior is exceedingly toxic and immature for a woman her age. Reading your post, I keep thinking she is barely 20 and in her first relationship and not 37. This is who she is.

I would take a bit step back and ask yourself why do you want to be with someone who seems so unstable. Also, on/off relationships are a good indication that the two people are incompatible. Btw, no, it is not normal to break up, make up or do a silent treatment for days while in a relationship or any kind of silent treatment at all. You should not tolerate that kind of behavior, let alone rationalize this as normal or OK somehow. It is not.

Rather than waiting on her, I think you need to start thinking more for yourself and if this is really acceptable to you and maybe make your own decision that this isn't working and let this go. Expect better than this and walk away from people who are emotionally unstable. Her accusations of you are rather offensive, don't you think?

[bsim627]

30 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

I actually think she was the first to bring it up… she was the one that told my family about it. 

Actually to linger on that for a minute… she is a vegetarian and actually built a raised bed garden and planted a food supply for herself in June. So it’s definitely where her head was at a month ago. 

[Batya33]

What is the purpose of sharing living space? Do you have the same purposes? Is it to progress emotionally in the relationship or for convenience or what?

[bsim627]

23 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

And did this improve after the first break-up?

Yes, but it was likely something had weighed on her before Mom made any comments. When you're on your own together, what is your quality time like? Do you have date nights? Cuddle? Show affection in other ways?

How did you respond to this?

What I'm hearing is that she did not feel special to you. Whether or not that was accurate, only you can say. But it sounds like she felt that you two were more friends than lovers at this point. At just 1.5 years, it's not a good sign, especially with one break-up already behind you. 

It did improve after the first breakup and she has made many comments to that effect as well.

It actually seems like every time she has gone to visit her mom she comes back with a different mindset about our relationship. Her mom has meddled issues into past relationships regarding her own opinions of how committed the guys are… I do agree that she probably just twists a knife that is already there though.

we do cuddle (I have two dogs which get in the way here a bit and it has been an issue, but I have been working to keep them off the couch). And we have date nights although I think our standing date nights have become routine and it’s something I was looking at changing up.

I responded by telling her because I’m in love with her and we want the same things in life and we compliment each other well land we go on all these adventures together.

You’re right though. She hasn’t felt special to me. I’m not trying to dismiss my own contributions to this… Being put on the spot with claims that I don’t really love her is really difficult for me… it feels like an innocent person on trial trying to rationalize why they are innocent.

 

[DancingFool]

Does it occur to that she may be projecting to you how she actually feels? Meaning that she is accusing you of what she is actually doing to you, like only dating you for lack of better options or because she is lonely at the moment......

[boltnrun]

My husband and I went through a couple of episodes like this. He had been acting "meh" toward me. So I sat him down and told him I felt he wasn't in love with me anymore and it was making me question our marriage. He responded by hugging me and saying he didn't want to lose me and he would do whatever it took to improve our marriage.

That was good enough for me. We both made efforts for a year. Then the same old thing started happening again only worse. So I sat him down again. His response that time was that he wasn't going to do anything to try to fix things and if I wanted out he wasn't going to try to stop me. Big difference this time. He just seemed checked out and completely disinterested in improving our marriage. So I too checked out and we eventually divorced.

His first response was spot on. The second time, not so much.

I see two things as possibilities; she doesn't "feel" loved by you and possibly her mother is pressuring her about having kids. 

I would call if I were you. If it's true, tell her you love her, you don't want to lose her, and you want to talk about what the both of you can do to fix the relationship. If you're "meh" about her, however, then don't bother.

[MissCanuck]

8 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

… Being put on the spot with claims that I don’t really love her is really difficult for me… it feels like an innocent person on trial trying to rationalize why they are innocent.

Well, it could also be her looking for excuses to break up with you and blame you instead of being honest that she no longer felt the same way. 

[bsim627]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

What is the purpose of sharing living space? Do you have the same purposes? Is it to progress emotionally in the relationship or for convenience or what?

Probably mostly for the progression of the relationship. To feel an indication that we are headed into a serious life commitment.

She told me when it first came up that if she moved back in she wanted to know that it was for the long haul and while we were discussing it last weekend she asked “if I move in what does it mean for you?” And that’s when I said “that we are preparing to start a life and a family together.” And also said “but I don’t want you to move in just because of this conversation. I’m not trying to convince you to do something you don’t want to.”

Moving in or not isn’t the problem though. She could have told me she was having second thoughts about it and that she just wasn’t ready… that’s just the circumstance that exposed the bigger problem

our relationship could continue after this… maybe she moves in, maybe she doesn’t… but the why will still be there and would need to be addressed. 

[itsallgrand]

2 major issues:

1) She's unsure about the relationship. 

2) She has poor communication skills at a ground level. 

Even if #1 were to change, #2 would take years of serious devoted work in her end to change. If she even wants to change it or if she even sees it as a problem. 

Both are very good reasons to not proceed with a move in, marriage, or kids. So you are looking at building from scratch with someone who isn't even sure and who lacks the skills to navigate with a partner. 

At 1.5 years, trust and compatibility is either building to a strong foundation or it starts falling apart. You are lacking the foundation here, sadly. 

 

[bsim627]

8 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Does it occur to that she may be projecting to you how she actually feels? Meaning that she is accusing you of what she is actually doing to you, like only dating you for lack of better options or because she is lonely at the moment......

Yes it did actually feel like projection in the moment. Specifically the “because I make it so you’re not lonely” claim. I’m not trying to completely suppress that though, but I’m trying to suppress it enough that I don’t blurt it out as an accusation in the middle of a serious conversation. 

[bsim627]

10 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Well, it could also be her looking for excuses to break up with you and blame you instead of being honest that she no longer felt the same way. 

You’re correct… I’ve been in that position before. This one feels different… but it could definitely be the case and I would like to think she would do the right thing and address it.

[bsim627]

8 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

2 major issues:

1) She's unsure about the relationship. 

2) She has poor communication skills at a ground level. 

Even if #1 were to change, #2 would take years of serious devoted work in her end to change. If she even wants to change it or if she even sees it as a problem. 

Both are very good reasons to not proceed with a move in, marriage, or kids. So you are looking at building from scratch with someone who isn't even sure and who lacks the skills to navigate with a partner. 

At 1.5 years, trust and compatibility is either building to a strong foundation or it starts falling apart. You are lacking the foundation here, sadly. 

 

Yes. I actually mentioned this while we were talking. That we keep heading in a certain direction and talking about things on the same page but then she’ll start talking about plans that don’t explicitly exclude me, but can’t possibly include me and this time around what i noticed was  that she started saying “mine” and “yours” again instead of “ours.”

And I said that it feels like I’ve been written out of our plans and every time that happens I feel like I’m back at square one… and honestly square one isn’t a great place for either of us to be if we want kids. 

[Wiseman2]

18 minutes ago, bsim627 said:

if she moved back in

Has she moved in/out before?