About to end my 90 day fiancee adventure

[maritalbliss86]

20 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

I know how it looks, desperate and I guess I sort of am.  Looking at me you'd never think it.  I have a lot going for me, but I'm up against a wall now.  That said, I am willing to walk away because it would be worse to be in a bad marriage. 

You don't look desperate to me.  You're thoughtfully planning this out... I'm sure you know more about the situation than we do, AND you sound ready to nuke it if the red flags get too much.

Good luck, I sincerely hope it works out for you!

[Atlguy]

33 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

OP, maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread, but have you had the opportunity to visit her at her home in Ukraine?

Yes, I did the first time we met in person back in March 2020.  Seems like forever with this pandemic.  we were together again in Mexico in September.  Managed to get around COVID to see each other through much hard work on my part.

[LotusBlack]

1 hour ago, Atlguy said:

Yes, I did the first time we met in person back in March 2020.  Seems like forever with this pandemic.  we were together again in Mexico in September.  Managed to get around COVID to see each other through much hard work on my part.

I agree, you don’t sound desperate. You know you want to be married and have a family. You’re clear and decisive about it. Perhaps you didn’t run into her in some serendipitous way, rather searching her out, but that doesn’t make you desperate, just goal oriented. The only thing I do think you may be doing prematurely is getting married. I still think having her come for a year to see if your relationship can withstand a bit of time and growth is the wisest choice and then discuss marriage once you know how your relationship changes and, hopefully, deepens. 

[Atlguy]

8 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

I agree, you don’t sound desperate. You know you want to be married and have a family. You’re clear and decisive about it. Perhaps you didn’t run into her in some serendipitous way, rather searching her out, but that doesn’t make you desperate, just goal oriented. The only thing I do think you may be doing prematurely is getting married. I still think having her come for a year to see if your relationship can withstand a bit of time and growth is the wisest choice and then discuss marriage once you know how your relationship changes and, hopefully, deepens. 

Obviously, that would be my preference but the immigration process makes it impossible to give it a year.  Still, I know her well enough to take this risk. Heck 70 years ago people got married after knowing each other only 3 months.  Granted, it might have been because people were more religious then and it was the only way to have sex, so they perhaps rushed things.  I was born in the wrong generation.  I wish things were simpler like back then.  But your point is not lost on me, trust me.  I'm very concerned we don't have enough time.  For whatever reason, she's not concerned and has decided I'm who she wants.  Now whether she really knows in her heart I'm her "soulmate" or whatever word you want to use is another story.  She could just be saying to herself "he has enough positive qualities that its worth the risk", I don't know.  But I do hope our love grows stronger and deepens.  It can take years for this to happen even for couples who follow a more traditional method than we are.

[Wiseman2]

38 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

Heck 70 years ago people got married after knowing each other only 3 months. 

The Food and Drug Administration approved the first oral contraceptive in 1960.

[Atlguy]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The Food and Drug Administration approved the first oral contraceptive in 1960.

Your point being?

[MissCanuck]

4 hours ago, Atlguy said:

Heck 70 years ago people got married after knowing each other only 3 months.  Granted, it might have been because people were more religious then and it was the only way to have sex, so they perhaps rushed things.  I was born in the wrong generation.  I wish things were simpler like back then.

Well, societal expectations were also quite different then. 

Marrying quickly was not necessarily a result of being sure the other was right. I don't doubt there were many true love stories, but the idea of dating several different people before settling down was not really the norm, and being unwed past a certain age carried stigma. 

Another thing we need to remember is that in past generations, when people married and were unhappy, social pressures often meant that they did not seek divorce. For as many decades-long happy marriages that resulted from these generations, there are likely just as many that were not. Adultery, abuse, neglect...all the same issues were present in those days as well. It was just much harder to leave and go your separate ways. And it was generally not discussed if there were serious problems. 

Maybe times were simpler on some levels, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were happier.  I think many of us tend to romanticize the past when we're unhappy with the present, in some ways. We can be grateful for the options we do have now, which were unavailable to those who may have desperately needed them 60 or 70 years ago. 

[Jibralta]

5 hours ago, Atlguy said:

Your point being?

Less unwanted pregnancies lead to less unwanted marriages.

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

For as many decades-long happy marriages that resulted from these generations, there are likely just as many that were not. Adultery, abuse, neglect...all the same issues were present in those days as well. It was just much harder to leave and go your separate ways. And it was generally not discussed if there were serious problems.

Agreed. For example, spousal rape was completely legal in the US until the mid 70s. Then one state made it illegal. It didn't become fully illegal until the mid 90s. It wasn't considered rape.

Domestic abuse wasn't considered grounds for divorce until the mid 60s, and that was only in New York--and only if the plaintiff could prove that the plaintiff must establish that a sufficient number of beatings had taken place. Stalking wasn't even considered a crime until the 90s. Actually, before 1990, judges weren't required to consider any history of spousal abuse before determining child custody or visitation rights... so why leave lol?

It's easy to whitewash the 'olden days' with nostalgic ideals. But people had a lot less rights back then. Longevity of a marriage wasn't just a sign of commitment. Many were hopelessly stuck in painful, unwanted situations, and just dealt with it.

[LaHermes]

Atlguy.

 

I see many thoughtful and very well presented posts on here in reply to your initial post. People here are sincere, many with much life experience, and they give the best advice they can with the information they are given.

In brief, I go with what Wiseman said:

"It's a relationship of convenience. She expects US citizenship and you expect a wife."

You remarked at one point and this jumped out at me.

"My problem is that I don't trust my own judgment anymore, and that certainly is playing into my back and forth on my relationship."

I feel, and I could be wrong, that your instinct is trying to tell you something, There is much truth to the saying: "If in doubt, don't". 

My advice is to tread carefully, very. 

 

 

 

[Atlguy]

18 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Atlguy.

 

I see many thoughtful and very well presented posts on here in reply to your initial post. People here are sincere, many with much life experience, and they give the best advice they can with the information they are given.

In brief, I go with what Wiseman said:

"It's a relationship of convenience. She expects US citizenship and you expect a wife."

You remarked at one point and this jumped out at me.

"My problem is that I don't trust my own judgment anymore, and that certainly is playing into my back and forth on my relationship."

I feel, and I could be wrong, that your instinct is trying to tell you something, There is much truth to the saying: "If in doubt, don't". 

My advice is to tread carefully, very. 

 

Thank you.  I am treading carefully, and haven't ruled out sending her back if we can't get along and grow our relationship.  What sucks is illegal immigrants can stay here forever (evidently), but legal immigrants on a K-1 only have 90 days.  Thats insane.  I dislike Joe Biden, but he should get that law changed to a year.  You'd think he would since he wants to import votes.

 

 

[LaHermes]

Atlguy:

Getting back here to your own thread and your own concerns. what do you think you will do?  June is only around the corner. 

I just noticed something you said in an earlier reply, that you had met her in her home country, and subsequently in México,  Was there some reason (and yes I am aware of Covid restrictions) she could not have paid you a visit in the U.S.?

Harking back to days gone by, maybe some people then married after only knowing each other 3 months, and I am going by the much older generation in my family (including my late parents). They generally knew each other for around two years before marrying, although I suppose there were some shotgun wedding then too. L.

Meantime, here we are in 2021, and I assume you are not in a rush?  Make haste slowly, and if you have any doubts at all, then think long and hard.

I just re-read your initial post (15th April) and it is very evident you are concerned, but also fearful of being "alone" forever.  52 is young! Of course you won't be alone.

And you remarked:

"Thank you guys for the advice.  My friends are giving me similar advice.  This message board seems less judgmental than others I've been on, and I really appreciate that!"

No one here, or on the other thread (Elm's) was in any way judgmental. 

Best of luck.

 

[Atlguy]

26 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Atlguy:

Getting back here to your own thread and your own concerns. what do you think you will do?  June is only around the corner. 

I just noticed something you said in an earlier reply, that you had met her in her home country, and subsequently in México,  Was there some reason (and yes I am aware of Covid restrictions) she could not have paid you a visit in the U.S.?

Harking back to days gone by, maybe some people then married after only knowing each other 3 months, and I am going by the much older generation in my family (including my late parents). They generally knew each other for around two years before marrying, although I suppose there were some shotgun wedding then too. L.

Meantime, here we are in 2021, and I assume you are not in a rush?  Make haste slowly, and if you have any doubts at all, then think long and hard.

I just re-read your initial post (15th April) and it is very evident you are concerned, but also fearful of being "alone" forever.  52 is young! Of course you won't be alone.

And you remarked:

"Thank you guys for the advice.  My friends are giving me similar advice.  This message board seems less judgmental than others I've been on, and I really appreciate that!"

No one here, or on the other thread (Elm's) was in any way judgmental. 

Best of luck.

 

She isn't permitted to even change planes in the U.S., so even meeting her in Mexico was a challenge.  

I've known her a year and a half, but yes, I'm still concerned.  There's time to call the whole thing off, but not much time, just a couple of weeks at this point.

As for me being in a rush, no, I'm not since now at my advanced age I won't have kids.  10 years ago I would have been in a rush so that I could have kids.  Now I have to let that dream go. 

Its a disaster of a life basically for the last 18 years.  Why not add one more disaster to it? I'm being sarcastic, but it wouldn't surprise me if this blew up in my face.  I can't win, basically.  Either my personal life or my professional life (or both) have sucked since around 2003, so what the hell? How can I even be optimistic anymore? Its hard to be, but I try.  I've tried to have faith in this relationship, but it has faded with distance and time (hence me starting this thread) and just my own history of bad decisions (only in hindsight that is), so if it all blows up I wouldn't be shocked.  Basically I have zero confidence in my decisions despite giving them careful consideration.  Something always goes wrong.  So I go back and forth with this decision almost daily.

A buddy of mine suggested an exercise.  Take one day and act as if its over and see how I feel about it.  Then the next day be completely committed and see how that makes me feel.  Sounds a little simplistic I guess, but I need clarity.

[Jibralta]

28 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

I have to have faith that my fiancee can make it on her own (if I take worst case scenario that we aren't together this time next year) after some period of time.  She's a brilliant woman.  But basically what everyone is saying is it isn't worth the risk for me, and maybe they're right. 

I think that people are saying that even brilliant people can find themselves in dire straights. I think they are cautioning you against dismissing that risk too quickly, and they speak from their own personal experiences.

And yes, your lawyer could be misinformed or incompetent-- I mean, what do you call the guy that got the lowest passing score on the Bar Exam? Lawyer.

Malpractice is a very real thing. 

By the way, it's very odd for a lawyer to give you advise that downplays the legal authority of the government.  My experience with lawyers is that they are overly cautious in this respect.

28 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

I wouldn't just "send her back" with nothing after having her move halfway across the world to be with me.  So thats hogwash.

 Well, those were your words, just to be clear:  

On 4/26/2021 at 1:29 PM, Atlguy said:

Good news/bad news is I can send her back, but I wouldn't have invested this much if I thought that would happen.

Honestly, you sound pretty stressed out. Maybe you're going against your gut feelings. I think that's what people are cuing in on.

[Atlguy]

Jibralta, I think what you said has merit.  I think I made a mistake hiring the lawyer I did.  Shame its so late in the process now.  This lawyer was recommended to me by someone I previously trusted.  Well, I still trust her, but think she got this wrong.  His father was a competent attorney, but this guy....

Yes, extremely stressed out.

[LaHermes]

Now, now, Atlguy.  Stop talking yourself down! 

But I can understand your frustrations, and I am not going to ask why your life took the turn it took back in 2003, or why you think it did. Believe me, everyone makes bad decisions in life (personally and professionally), and it is only human to make mistakes.  You can of course analyse why you made your decisions (good and not so good) in the past. But then, the past is history, and the future isn't here yet. 

Maybe what I am trying, tentatively, to ask is whether you think this possible relationship (companion) will somehow remedy and wipe out all the (in your view) disappointing stuff that has happened since 2003.  I fear it wouldn't Atl.  

I am sorry you feel so down.   It is important that you ditch this thinking: " Something always goes wrong."

Certainly, some situations (personal and professional) have more potential for disaster than others. This is what you have to ponder on. 

 

 

[arjumand]

Excuse me, where are you getting 70 years from? Since the 1920s dating has been a very expected and accepted part of US society. People dated many and for years. My parents were married in 1954 and had several other boyfriends/girlfriends before they found each other and they dated two years before getting engaged. This notion that people regularly got married months after meeting comes from where? Dating was also part of Edwardian and Victorian society, but with more strictures. And again, do some reading, plenty of people dated for ages before World War I. Deciding what history is and knowing it are two entirely different things. If you are talking about women sent to frontier towns as brides, that is an entirely different animal. 

And for others, throwing the word "simpler" around is reductive and actually, illogical. Things were just as messy, if not messier, when it came to marriages, property, children and legalities. It's a very smug way of acting like we have a greater understanding of personal relationships in their time than they did and that is absolutely incorrect. 

 

[Atlguy]

50 minutes ago, arjumand said:

Excuse me, where are you getting 70 years from? Since the 1920s dating has been a very expected and accepted part of US society. People dated many and for years. My parents were married in 1954 and had several other boyfriends/girlfriends before they found each other and they dated two years before getting engaged. This notion that people regularly got married months after meeting comes from where? Dating was also part of Edwardian and Victorian society, but with more strictures. And again, do some reading, plenty of people dated for ages before World War I. Deciding what history is and knowing it are two entirely different things. If you are talking about women sent to frontier towns as brides, that is an entirely different animal. 

And for others, throwing the word "simpler" around is reductive and actually, illogical. Things were just as messy, if not messier, when it came to marriages, property, children and legalities. It's a very smug way of acting like we have a greater understanding of personal relationships in their time than they did and that is absolutely incorrect. 

 

Well ok then.  Guess you told me.

[Atlguy]

23 hours ago, arjumand said:

Excuse me, where are you getting 70 years from? Since the 1920s dating has been a very expected and accepted part of US society. People dated many and for years. My parents were married in 1954 and had several other boyfriends/girlfriends before they found each other and they dated two years before getting engaged. This notion that people regularly got married months after meeting comes from where? Dating was also part of Edwardian and Victorian society, but with more strictures. And again, do some reading, plenty of people dated for ages before World War I. Deciding what history is and knowing it are two entirely different things. If you are talking about women sent to frontier towns as brides, that is an entirely different animal. 

And for others, throwing the word "simpler" around is reductive and actually, illogical. Things were just as messy, if not messier, when it came to marriages, property, children and legalities. It's a very smug way of acting like we have a greater understanding of personal relationships in their time than they did and that is absolutely incorrect. 

 

Actually, in the case of MY OWN parents it was 52 years.  They got married too fast because my mom was pregnant. Yep, that happened.  They NEVER discussed it and it wasn't until I was much older I put the pieces together.  I stand by my comments that courtship was shorter then.  My parents were very wrong for each other and that has shaped my life in horrible ways based on the bad habits I learned from them growing up.  Anyway, it doesn't matter now, but I just happened to think of that as your post did make me ask myself where I got that from.  That's where, but thats only my story.  I'm not well versed on the history of dating in the early-mid 20th century.

[LaHermes]

It's OK Atlguy.  Look, down through the decades some couples dated for ages before marrying, some dated for a shorter time.   Same as now, some courtships were shorter, some longer. My late parents dated for close on two years before marrying, and that was quite a while ago I can assure you. Gosh, from what my parents used to comment there were these very lengthy engagements sometimes, as in 4 or 5 years!  And moving into the present time, we dated for close on two years before marrying, and going through the couples we know far and wide that would have been more or less the norm.  

As you say what you describe is indeed YOUR story, and it is sad that their marriage was so wrong.  Equally sadly you say that dysfunction in the home shaped your life in horrible ways, but, you see, how you feel your life turned out has nothing to do with whether this or that couple dated for a longer or shorter period back in the day. In your parents' case your mother was pregnant, and back in those times marriage was the only option in such cases.

I can understand you are trying to "see" all the angles of this possible future with this woman from another country. It is probably nerve-wracking. 

If you are certain that life with this woman from Ukraine can bring you peace and contentment, then who are we to say "nay". All we ask is that you think matters through very carefully. 

 

[Atlguy]

36 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

It's OK Atlguy.  Look, down through the decades some couples dated for ages before marrying, some dated for a shorter time.   Same as now, some courtships were shorter, some longer. My late parents dated for close on two years before marrying, and that was quite a while ago I can assure you. Gosh, from what my parents used to comment there were these very lengthy engagements sometimes, as in 4 or 5 years!  And moving into the present time, we dated for close on two years before marrying, and going through the couples we know far and wide that would have been more or less the norm.  

As you say what you describe is indeed YOUR story, and it is sad that their marriage was so wrong.  Equally sadly you say that dysfunction in the home shaped your life in horrible ways, but, you see, how you feel your life turned out has nothing to do with whether this or that couple dated for a longer or shorter period back in the day. In your parents' case your mother was pregnant, and back in those times marriage was the only option in such cases.

I can understand you are trying to "see" all the angles of this possible future with this woman from another country. It is probably nerve-wracking. 

If you are certain that life with this woman from Ukraine can bring you peace and contentment, then who are we to say "nay". All we ask is that you think matters through very carefully. 

 

Thanks for this.  Thats exactly what I'm doing and its extremely nerve wracking and also sad that I question myself so much.   

 

[Tinydance]

Well my parents also got engaged after only dating for four months. But they actually married after dating for one year. My Mum was 20 and Dad 22. I'm not sure if my Mum was pregnant because I do know she had a still born baby before me. She had me at 23. In her wedding photo she doesn't look pregnant at all or has a flabby belly or anything though.

Sorry if I'm out of line but I think if you want kids of your own then you should have them. I understand you're 52 and the risks are higher but the good thing about being a man is you can still father children. If you want to have kids with a 36-year-old woman who is also of Eastern European background then you could come and meet Tinydance 😜

[Unsure2021]

Lol you should put up a pic Tiny, you may have a shot 😉 

[mylolita]

Atlguy,

Been lurking on this thread and can see you have been given very friendly, understanding but sincere advice.

 

My instant gut reaction to this would be - this is not how many marriages made in heaven start. It should really not be this complicated. Love is very simple, when you are both madly and deeply in love. You want the same things, especially the same core things. 
 

To me, this doesn’t sound like your ying to your yang, but it’s your life and you make the decisions, but you also have to deal with the consequences.

 

The fact you are questioning this so much should maybe give you the answer you are looking for. Your gut instinct, if you can trust it, is usually right.

 

Lo x

 

[maritalbliss86]

Just curious if there was ever an update on your situation?