About to end my 90 day fiancee adventure

[Atlguy]

This is my first post here.  I've been with my now fiancee for a year and a half.  During that time we've spent a grand total of 20 days together, but talk daily and skype weekly. 

She has a 14 year old son who could use a father, as his dad has been gone for 10 years (not involved, another family).  I've met him, he's a good kid and I would like to step in and help with parenting. 

The issues are many: Culturally,  we seem to not understand each other's life/expectations and have conflicting ideas about what marriage looks like.  For example, she initially expected me to fully support them while she keeps what she makes for herself and her son.  My Russian friend who lives here and immigrated 15 years ago set her straight on that idea.   I think the biggest thing is her viewing us as separate vs a real family.  She has reluctantly agreed to help with bills once she can work. 

Additionally, I keep coming back to her being rigid and always having to be right and never apologizing.  Well, that was my mother.  I don't want that.  The challenge is its so great in person 95% of the time.  So I don't know if the distance is taking a toll or if I should just call the whole thing off.  I don't ant to make this a long post, but please ask questions if you want more clarification.  Bottom line is I've made all concessions and compromises, invested my money (she's contributed nothing financially), and am not getting my needs met.   

The latest kicker is we've lost time (due to an incompetent attorney here and me having to hire one there as well), with the final step (her interviewing with the U.S. Embassy) which has really thrown plans off by about 2 months.  She's insisting that if her and her son can't get here until the end of June (our estimated timeline based on delays), she wants me to make a decision and marry by the first of August.  Otherwise, she would leave because her son has to take an entrance exam mid-August to get into high school in Ukraine.  I'm feeling like 30 days (when we should have 90) won't be enough to see if this will work.  She says she has no doubts, which is surprising given our disagreements.  We've done pre-marital counseling with mixed results, but feeling good about it generally.  I'm starting to feel there are too many red flags with her and she expects me to do all the work for this relationship based on what she's shown me so far.  Then again, we haven't lived together yet to really explore this.  I'm confused about what to do next.

[DancingFool]

Nothing confusing at all. What you see is what you get and it's not working out for you.

You can't even get along online, typically when people get along the best. It's only going to get worse in person, not better. She is actually being very clear and honest with you about who she is, what she expects and I don't think that will change one bit no matter what friend talks to her about what. She expects you to pay the bills. If she pitches in, it will only be begrudgingly and it will be contentious and you can count on that. 

I'm not against long distance relationships or even international ones and know plenty that have worked out very well. However, under no circumstances can you rush into marriage when you've ONLY spent 20 days in person regardless of distance. It seems almost like the majority of this "relationship" has circled around the pressure to hurry up and get married. You can't do that and it doesn't work like that. On top of that, you can't even seem to get along or see eye to eye on how to live together or even your personalities at large.

In your shoes, I'd call it all off and exit. If you are not ready to call things off, then be honest with her and put things on pause. Let her kid do the exams and pursue his education. Keep in mind that if you and her pursue this marriage and then don't work out - this child will pay the worst price for it. Step back and take the time to actually travel and get to know each other much more in person. Marriage is not a transaction you can do online.

[Lambert]

Many red flags here, OP. And it sounds like she's all in because it's basically no risk, all reward on her end. 

Marriage is hard. if you are already feeling the strain, it's only going to get worse, not better. 

That's true of all relationships not just long distance ones. People think.. oh if we take the next step, it will get better. If we have a baby, it will get better. This is wrong.

The truth is, these problems are telling you, you are not completely compatible. And if you're with someone, who doesn't budge, doesn't compromise, gives ultimatums and deadlines, you're not going to be happy in the long run. Takers just take. They don't give.

So remember that, when you're giving and thinking they will give at another opportunity. They won't. 

Marriage is a big step and commitment for a relationship that has not existed in your everyday life. Virtual is easy.  That's why so many people like it. You get the warm fuzzy feelings, but you have your space, too. That's not Marriage or real life.

I think if you search your gut, you'll realize, ending things is the most realistic thing.

Find a local woman, date, build a relationship in real life.

[Wiseman2]

Way too complicated. End it and date locally.

[Jibralta]

Another vote here for end it. Or at the very least, insist that the decision be postponed for another 2 months and don't budge on that. Let her leave if it comes to it.

[Atlguy]

So here's some history of why I did this.  I gave up on dating where I live 2 years ago and went on this journey to find a foreign woman.  I haven't been treated well since living where I do and the pool is small here.  I couldn't meet quality here.  At 52 and still wanting a family, I'm out of options, basically.  I do regret not pursuing someone in Latin America or Mexico, as I relate to Latin culture so much better.  If I start over again (I can't imagine after the frustrating year and a half of waiting), I will look for a Latin woman.  Dating where I live isn't an option.  I'm trying to move back to Atlanta, but thats not working.  I fear I will be alone indefinitely.

[Atlguy]

12 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

Another vote here for end it. Or at the very least, insist that the decision be postponed for another 2 months and don't budge on that. Let her leave if it comes to it.

I think this is the minimum I will do.  At worst, end it.  At best keep it going and also keep other options open, which is so unlike me as I've always been so loyal.  I just can't anymore with this distance and my uncertainty.

[Rose Mosse]

Be honest and end it first if you're going to "keep other options open". 

You don't have to lower your standards so low that they are rock bottom and you start to feel ill or bad about yourself and what you're going on about. 

Shrug off that fear of loneliness because I think your dates will sense that desperation and need regardless of culture or background. I'm sorry this isn't working out with your current relationship. 

 

[Atlguy]

Thank you guys for the advice.  My friends are giving me similar advice.  This message board seems less judgmental than others I've been on, and I really appreciate that!

I had a long discussion last night with the pastor who performed the pre-marital counseling.  He stopped short of telling me to end it, but I think that was the message.  At a minimum suggested I get my questions answered and confront her on some things.  Not confront, just share my concerns.  I plan to do that for sure and I expect defensiveness on her part, which will help me make my decision, actually.  

[DancingFool]

40 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

So here's some history of why I did this.  I gave up on dating where I live 2 years ago and went on this journey to find a foreign woman.  I haven't been treated well since living where I do and the pool is small here.  I couldn't meet quality here.  At 52 and still wanting a family, I'm out of options, basically.  I do regret not pursuing someone in Latin America or Mexico, as I relate to Latin culture so much better.  If I start over again (I can't imagine after the frustrating year and a half of waiting), I will look for a Latin woman.  Dating where I live isn't an option.  I'm trying to move back to Atlanta, but thats not working.  I fear I will be alone indefinitely.

I think you need to work on yourself to step away from this kind of fear. Making decisions based on fear will lead you away from what you so crave and into a lot of big problems. It also taints how you see the world and will definitely leave you acting so desperate that it will scare away women who are healthy.

Your time is not that limited. There are many many woman who are divorced with children or even an ex who is not around who are looking for a good quality relationship and can offer the same to you.

I get if you live in a small town with few options, but if you can move, then work on that and do it and step away from "it will never happen for me". Trust that it will, but do make your choices wisely and never out of fear.

[Rose Mosse]

 

9 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

Thank you guys for the advice.  My friends are giving me similar advice.  This message board seems less judgmental than others I've been on, and I really appreciate that!

I had a long discussion last night with the pastor who performed the pre-marital counseling.  He stopped short of telling me to end it, but I think that was the message.  At a minimum suggested I get my questions answered and confront her on some things.  Not confront, just share my concerns.  I plan to do that for sure and I expect defensiveness on her part, which will help me make my decision, actually.  

Let us know how it goes. 

Expecting the worst of each other by the way is a sign that things are not at what they should be.

If you expect defensiveness why even bother with discussing anything at length? You're setting her or both of you up for arguing some more, and then blaming her for being the reason of the demise of the relationship. In reality you've already checked out. 

I'd encourage you to be more honest about the way you feel about her and don't use her reactions to you as a reason to leave. That gets tiring and annoying after awhile. If she hasn't caught on already, she probably will. 

 

 

[SooSad33]

4 hours ago, Atlguy said:

She's insisting that if her and her son can't get here until the end of June (our estimated timeline based on delays), she wants me to make a decision and marry by the first of August.  Otherwise, she would leave because her son has to take an entrance exam mid-August to get into high school in Ukraine.  I'm feeling like 30 days (when we should have 90) won't be enough to see if this will work.  She says she has no doubts, which is surprising given our disagreements.  We've done pre-marital counseling with mixed results, but feeling good about it generally.  I'm starting to feel there are too many red flags with her and she expects me to do all the work for this relationship based on what she's shown me so far.

Ahh yeah.. do NOT do this!

Too many red flags.. this relationships is far from 'stable'.. and why would you want to 'marry' anyone you do not feel proper with?

YES, she is using you and wanting to basically rush into it all, so SHE can be in stable spot! Dont risk this.

Leave her there and end it all.  You cannot be her 'support system', just so she can come to your country.

2 hours ago, Atlguy said:

At 52 and still wanting a family, I'm out of options, basically.  I do regret not pursuing someone in Latin America or Mexico, as I relate to Latin culture so much better.  If I start over again (I can't imagine after the frustrating year and a half of waiting)

- Yah, that's all it has been.. frustrating.  None of this is good for you.

One can always start again - but do get yourself back together and feeling okay again, before you do.

Is always best to be able to be around someone as much as possible to see IF you can handle each other- not 300 thous miles away.

Take your time.. even if you come across someone more to your liking in 2 yrs from now, is still okay. Don't rush things!

 

[Atlguy]

Thanks Rose.  You're right, expecting the worst (a recent development) is not the way to be in a relationship.  A big part of me has checked out because I don't see any effort on her part.  Of course, being 6,000 miles away, I'm not sure what the effort "should" be.  But when she's mad, she ignores me, and that won't fly.  Thats the last 2 days now, so thats another red flag.

[MissCanuck]

4 hours ago, Atlguy said:

She says she has no doubts, which is surprising given our disagreements.

It's not surpising if her ultimate goal isn't to enjoy a healthy marriage but rather to find a way out of Ukraine (which I guess is her home country, based on your comment about her son's school exam)

She is looking for ways to convince you to go along with her plan. Of course she's sure she wants to get married, because that is the means to an end for her. It's her ticket to a better life. 

[Atlguy]

9 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

It's not surpising if her ultimate goal isn't to enjoy a healthy marriage but rather to find a way out of Ukraine (which I guess is her home country, based on your comment about her son's school exam)

She is looking for ways to convince you to go along with her plan. Of course she's sure she wants to get married, because that is the means to an end for her. It's her ticket to a better life. 

Thats not obvious, actually.  She has a good job and is independent there.  She wants to be married to the right man.  I just don't think I'm it anymore.  I feel used in other ways, but not the one you mention.

[melancholy123]

End it and move on.  She's way too difficult and rigid, it's not going to work for you.

[Rose Mosse]

1 hour ago, Atlguy said:

Thanks Rose.  You're right, expecting the worst (a recent development) is not the way to be in a relationship.  A big part of me has checked out because I don't see any effort on her part.  Of course, being 6,000 miles away, I'm not sure what the effort "should" be.  But when she's mad, she ignores me, and that won't fly.  Thats the last 2 days now, so thats another red flag.

It might be hard to see her efforts if both of you communicate differently and there's long distance thrown in the mix. I still think dating locally is a better than trying to date long term out of country. DF makes good points about relocation.

Take more time to rethink and revamp what you know about yourself. Work out, make new friends, date within your city/town, get to know different people. Reconsider the wife with kids. At 52 I'd rather be stern with myself and a little more realistic about those things not happening, upping my quality of life not worrying or putting that kind of pressure on myself.

Maybe you need to make peace with a few things and why you want to have a family so badly if it's causing you to lose money, sleep, time or causing you to question yourself and be so miserable. I'm not saying to let go of your dreams totally but hold them loosely in the palm of your hand and just let things be. Logic would follow that it's much more reasonable and realistic to relocate and date locally if you want to mingle with other ladies with similar mindset as you. Open up the dating pool, in-person. It's your happiness first and foremost so don't let anyone walk all over that. 

[boltnrun]

57 minutes ago, Atlguy said:

Thats not obvious, actually.  She has a good job and is independent there.  She wants to be married to the right man.  I just don't think I'm it anymore.  I feel used in other ways, but not the one you mention.

Yeah, but when she moves to the US and marries you she won't have to work anymore. Big benefit for her.

BTW, my brother married his first wife with the understanding she would work and contribute financially to the household. 20 years on, she never did get that job.

[Atlguy]

1 minute ago, Rose Mosse said:

It might be hard to see her efforts if both of you communicate differently and there's long distance thrown in the mix. I still think dating locally is a better than trying to date long term out of country. DF makes good points about relocation.

Take more time to rethink and revamp what you know about yourself. Work out, make new friends, date within your city/town, get to know different people. Reconsider the wife with kids. At 52 I'd rather be stern with myself and a little more realistic about those things not happening, upping my quality of life not worrying or putting that kind of pressure on myself.

Maybe you need to make peace with a few things and why you want to have a family so badly if it's causing you to lose money, sleep, time or causing you to question yourself and be so miserable. I'm not saying to let go of your dreams totally but hold them loosely in the palm of your hand and just let things be. Logic would follow that it's much more reasonable and realistic to date relocate and date locally if you want to mingle with other ladies with similar mindset as you. Open up the dating pool, in-person. It's your happiness first and foremost so don't let anyone walk all over that. 

Good points.  I just feel like I blew my shot at a family when I got divorced (not my decision) 12 years ago.  Then was forced to move to a part of the country where nobody likes transplants and its very cliquish.  Making friends here is impossible and I've finally accepted its not me.  I'm social, smart, funny, a normal guy.  I have a career but live in isolation because of the mentality here.  So as I said earlier, dating locally sure as heck isn't an option and moving has been slow going since I've diligently worked on that since 2016.  I just want to give up on life most days, not so much because of depression (although thats part) but because I have so many regrets and life just didn't work out for me.  Its works out for other people, not me.  Thats not entirely true, but thats how it feels.  The isolation after 8+ years here is slowly killing me.

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Atlguy said:

was forced to move to a part of the country where nobody likes transplants and its very cliquish.  I have a career but live in isolation because of the mentality here. The isolation after 8+ years here is slowly killing me.

Sounds like you're homesick. Can you work on that aspect?

Did you relocate for work? What do you mean  "forced to move"? 

Start putting a resume together and seeking out employment where you don't feel homesick.

That's a better option than those foreign bride scams. 

[Atlguy]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sounds like you're homesick. Can you work on that aspect?

Did you relocate for work? What do you mean  "forced to move"? 

Start putting a resume together and seeking out employment where you don't feel homesick.

That's a better option than those foreign bride scams. 

Yes, for work.  Post recession and living in the house I was married in, I had no choice.  I needed to get out and couldn't find a job in Atlanta.  My industry at that time was demolished in Atlanta.  I have a resume, I have recruiter, and I apply for jobs.  I've had tons of zoom interviews.  Either bad timing, not a fit, or made it to final 2 and not selected.  Its always something.  I have a good job and its sought after with tons of competition, particularly in a big city.  Living where I do its not like that because nobody in their right mind wants to live here unless they grew up here.  Its a bubble.  Anyway, I look great on paper (and in reality a really good catch), but still had to look elsewhere for a wife and of course the job search never ends.

Also, not all foreign dating is a scam.  I didn't hire a service for this.  I also did a lot of research to not be suckered.  I wasn't suckered at all, just chose wrong evidently.

[Rose Mosse]

One day at a time. Not sure if you are employed right now or interested in applying elsewhere. In any case if this relationship ends, take a time out and give yourself time to decompress/re-evaluate where you want to go from here.

[Hollyj]

This has disaster written all over it.  So many red flags!  What is the age difference? 

[maritalbliss86]

I haven't seen East4 around recently, but she's our resident Eastern European woman who chimes in with great advice about dating from time to time.  I think she could help you avoid certain pitfalls and personality types you'd clash with from that area. 

Latin women have pros and cons, but you sound like you'd prefer their culture, which if you know more about it, that would probably be easier than Eastern European culture.  Those two are very different, and even then, each country has its own subculture that is pretty different.

I've always read that the best way to marry a foreign woman is to literally move there, make an effort to get involved with their culture and family, but I realize that may not be possible for you.

 

[Andrina]

The main reason I as an American would never marry a non citizen? You have to sign an affidavit that you will support the person for a solid 10 years, even if the marriage ends in divorce, and even if a divorce happens within one year. If that person seeks social services support, you could be sent the bill for reimbursement. Too big of a risk when you haven't seen the reality of a person as you would a local person who you regularly date for several years.

I'd continue applying for jobs in other places you could enjoy living. Just because you haven't been successful doing so yet, doesn't mean it will never happen. I remember when my husband got laid off in the big unemployment recession. He would get upset when he didn't get certain jobs, but it ended up that he got something even better eventually, so the universe was in his favor. 

Perhaps explore interesting cities you've never even visited or considered, and maybe your position would be coveted in those areas. If promising, plan a trip and check out the local vibe. 

You likely still have 30 or 40 years left on the planet, so that's plenty of time to find success in romance. Keep us updated. I wish you luck.