Anyone have an ex who runs away from conversation and is very indecisive?

[bluecastle]

Honestly I felt for the most part that we complimented each other - I was the take charge level headed person during problems which worked for him as he gets very flustered and freezes up during unexpected life issues. I would be the one he would call “I have this problem and I don’t know what to do”. He was the calm go with the flow vibe that helped me stop and smell the roses. Many friends of ours said we worked as a great team.

 

I find our communication styles to be what drove us off the edge. I’m not afraid of any confrontation while he loathes it and shuts down so when you pin us as opponents I always looked like the aggressor. He would always say “how come I never have an issue with anything you do” to which I would say I’m not sure that’s entirely a good thing! honestly in 4 years he got mad at me ONCE, I honestly don’t even see how that’s possible! So in that sense It’s very interesting you say he was afraid of me bc I don’t even think he allowed himself to be bothered for fear of conflict.

 

at one point during the breakup he started saying how he just didn’t think we got along and that ruffled my feathers quite a bit because I feel like when you drill down you can identify who has what issue they need to work on in order to make it work IF you really love each other. For example- he needs to work on speaking up and I need to work on not steamrolling somebody assuming they are ok with the decisions I’m making. Saying we just don’t get along when you’ve already discussed marriage and children is a very “easy” way out in my opinion so nobody has to work on their flaws. Nobody cheated, abused, or did anything past the point of no return here, maybe he just doesn’t love me enough to work this out and finds it easier to move on.

 

I hear you, I do.

 

I also want to say: it really, really doesn't have to be this hard. The way you're writing about it? Well, if you were writing about a car—i.e. a thing you want to be fun and reliable for a long trip, which is sort of what we want from partnership—you'd be writing about one that needed constant tuning up, at more and more frequent intervals, to the point where a jaunt for groceries becomes a dice roll. Which is to say: a car that does not do the thing it is meant to do, because the engine keeps falling apart with daily use. Tinkering with a motor, while a fun hobby for some, is a very different thing than traveling. And people? They generally do not like being seen as projects by other people.

 

For what it's worth: I don't think of love as a currency, as something that can, or should, be measured through gulag-like labor. All this talk about how "IF" you love someone, then you will drill down and work? That maybe he doesn't love you "enough" to make it work? That's all transactional, a cycle of punishment and reward that can grind the strongest of gears down to dust. Can't love just be love, a powerful, mysterious thing that is all the more powerful because it's not predicated on anything but acceptance? What about the idea that IF you love someone then they don't need to do a single thing but be themselves, alongside you going about the business of being yourself?

 

Something to think about, or not, as you see fit.

 

I get your frustrations, don't get me wrong. I also, I think, get his as well. Yes, I'm here in the bleacher seats, without a dog in the fight, but I do think it's worth reflecting on the degree to which you are validating certain feelings—pain, frustration, disconnect—as being reflective of something that is worth holding onto, rather than something to let go of, trusting that something that authentically works does not require this level of, well, work.

[NightFairy12]

I have a friend who calls me "Lucy" because of Lucy's "doctor is in" sign in the Peanuts Cartoons. its fine to have a girlfriend who vents with you, who hashes things out /thinks aloud with you, but overhelping a boyfriend only makes him feel smothered. (and i don't "help" her, i am only a sounding board)

 

I would absolutely leave him alone. He tried to reach out and have a lighter conversation with you, and you jumped down his throat for not calling to dissect the relationships. I mean, he can't win. Who calls someone and says "i am ready to talk about the relationship". No, they usually talk about something else to break the ice. He started talking about what happened between the breakup and now. It could have lead to him saying "and that's when i realized that i missed you..." or it could have been something else and he realized why he made the right decision, but he had no chance. its called breaking the ice or testing the waters. He tried to test the waters to see if you were receptive and you bit his head off.

 

So in that way, i don't think you can make it up to him. He can't even initiate a conversation without you deciding he is not doing it right.

 

I think its best a time for reflection.

 

Maybe you will find a guy living in mom's basement who needs a woman to think he is a diamond in the rough and needs someone to completely manage his life. Maybe you will find a guy who your respect because of his motivation in life, but you will knock heads. But either way, if you go down the path to change, while still acknowledging what won't change about you, you will be better off and might be able to have a more balanced relationship -- to have the wisdom to know how to let people do things for themselves and in their time. Don't expect them to be any less than themselves and you have to be okay with that.

 

I completely agree when he replied to me I should NOT have brought up the breakup bc it made me look like I was shoving down his throat what *I* wanted to talk about. I regret that completely but it’s been a long time coming where I’ve been waiting to talk with him about what happened so I completely got ahead of myself. If he should ever reach out again I already plan to let him steer the conversation and we’ll see what happens. I’m the kind of person who beats themselves up when they make a mistake so trust me I do not take this lightly. I appreciate your feedback on what I may have done to contribute to this situation. But trust me he is not without his own flaws, he flat out told me he has not been dealing with his emotions on the breakup and that he knows its unhealthy to just drown himself in work. This is where I get frustrated and impatient and start to demand bc lord knows if he ever will deal with it by his own accord. But I understand just because I cope differently doesn’t make me “right”. Part of love is accepting others for whom they are. I need to work on that.

[NightFairy12]

At some point, you need to trust that people are capable of handling their problems. Sometimes when someone freezes, they don't need someone to play mommy to come fix it -- they need to step back amount and take a breath. "I am confident you will decide what's best" if its not something having to do with the relationship. Sometimes people need to switch things up to think. "that sounds really frustrating. want to go take a walk with me to find seashells/hop on our bikes?" or simply just listening. DOn't mistake "quiet" for being frozen. And don't throw someone on someone's lap out of the blue and expect them to have an answer

 

You’re right, I think I might have “mommied” to the point where he felt emasculated by me.

[abitbroken]

I completely agree when he replied to me I should NOT have brought up the breakup bc it made me look like I was shoving down his throat what *I* wanted to talk about. I regret that completely but it’s been a long time coming where I’ve been waiting to talk with him about what happened so I completely got ahead of myself. If he should ever reach out again I already plan to let him steer the conversation and we’ll see what happens. I’m the kind of person who beats themselves up when they make a mistake so trust me I do not take this lightly. I appreciate your feedback on what I may have done to contribute to this situation. But trust me he is not without his own flaws, he flat out told me he has not been dealing with his emotions on the breakup and that he knows its unhealthy to just drown himself in work. This is where I get frustrated and impatient and start to demand bc lord knows if he ever will deal with it by his own accord. But I understand just because I cope differently doesn’t make me “right”. Part of love is accepting others for whom they are. I need to work on that.

 

he was dealing with them. Some people deal with them by beating up a pillow, burying themselves in their routine for a little bit - anything aside from dissecting their emotions with tweezers. If i sat and ruminated on a my feelings, that's a fast track to wallowing, isolating myself, etc. If i keep one foot in front of the other, i am definitely "feeling" my feelings but i am not allowing myself to curl up in a fetal position.

 

That is NOT a flaw. its just different than you. A flaw could be someone's addictive nature, their compulsive lying, etc, but dealing with their emotions in a different manner than you do is not a flaw.

 

I had an ex who treated my differences as "defects".

[NightFairy12]

he was dealing with them. Some people deal with them by beating up a pillow, burying themselves in their routine for a little bit - anything aside from dissecting their emotions with tweezers. If i sat and ruminated on a my feelings, that's a fast track to wallowing, isolating myself, etc. If i keep one foot in front of the other, i am definitely "feeling" my feelings but i am not allowing myself to curl up in a fetal position.

 

That is NOT a flaw. its just different than you. A flaw could be someone's addictive nature, their compulsive lying, etc, but dealing with their emotions in a different manner than you do is not a flaw.

 

I had an ex who treated my differences as "defects".

 

Respectfully disagree, he flat out told me it wasn’t healthy the way he was coping and I agree with him. That was the first time he ever admitted anything like that to me. It’s not good to surpress your emotions to the point where you have not dealt with your feelings about the situation MONTHS later? (Again going by what he said). Either way I’m not going to say anything about anything bc it’s not my place and part of love is acceptance. I’m only sorry I won’t get a chance to show him. Thank you for all the feedback it’s been helpful

[Hollyj]

I agree with you, I have a habit of over “helping”. Before the favor is asked of me I will offer the solution. Many of my friends know me as the “go-to” when they need advice or help. That’s not to say I get taken advantage of bc I have no problem speaking up for myself when I feel something isn’t right. I do love him very much so, is there any way to make this right with him?

 

It sounds like the relationship was very co dependent.

[Wiseman2]

Read the book : "Passive Men, Wild Women" by Pierre Mornell, MD https://insight.org/resources/article-library/individual/passive-men-wild-women-1

 

It may give you some insight in the confrontational-retreat dynamic.

[NightFairy12]

Read the book : "Passive Men, Wild Women" by Pierre Mornell, MD https://insight.org/resources/article-library/individual/passive-men-wild-women-1

 

It may give you some insight in the confrontational-retreat dynamic.

 

Thank you, this sounds interesting although the title makes me think of myself as a wild stallion in the pen [emoji23]

[NightFairy12]

It sounds like the relationship was very co dependent.

 

It might have been in some ways but then again some of the things I did were just being a good partner (i.e your having surgery? Of course I can drive you and pick you up). I also think my insecurity over where I stood in his life (the backpedaling) and how he REALLY felt (bc as others noted he seemed afraid to TALK to me) made me act clingy and controlling at times bc I didn’t know what was really going on beneath the surface until the rug got ripped out from under me. I just wish he would have communicated a bit more assertively but maybe I needed to pay attention to HIS style of communicating 🤷🏻♀️

[Hollyj]

I think his communication style would have been difficult for most, this is what made him a poor partner for you.

 

I do think you should address your ci dependence, or you will do the same in the next relationship.

[bluecastle]

I just wish he would have communicated a bit more assertively but maybe I needed to pay attention to HIS style of communicating

 

Sure, that's part of it. But I'd take some time to reflect on the degree to how and why his style, at some point, was part of the appeal.

 

For someone who is type-A, goal-oriented, and direct, there can be a certain comfort, if not quite a conscious one, in someone who is more passive, vague in their intentionality. The appeal of wet clay, say, as opposed to dried concrete. Numerous frustrations aside, the active person gets the "reward" of being in the driver's seat, calling the shots, steering the ship. Or, in a word, a sense of control, and the comfort of being in control, which all of us humans crave.

 

I can't help but see some of that here, notably in the way you reached out to him, asking how he's doing during lockdown but telling him he can only respond in a certain way. Also in how you talked about his personal trajectory—how he would not have reached certain goals without your support. That is parental stuff, if you zoom out, in that it's finding personal value, identity, and worth in shaping the trajectory and personality of another person—an offshoot of codependence—and it's the stuff that kids find ways to reject and subvert even when it comes from their parents. Adults will do the same, not always gracefully, because people, even passive ones, are fiercely protective of their free will.

 

Guess the question is: Would you not find greater harmony and contentment with someone who, naturally, is more on your page? Or who has firmly established his own page, so you can more clearly assess whether or not that compliments your own? It's a more vulnerable proposition—you don't get to steer the same way—but if you find someone with a navigational prowess that aligns with yours that doesn't really matter. Interdependence replaces codependence, the power struggle snuffed out by mutual equality.

[NightFairy12]

Sure, that's part of it. But I'd take some time to reflect on the degree to how and why his style, at some point, was part of the appeal.

 

For someone who is type-A, goal-oriented, and direct, there can be a certain comfort, if not quite a conscious one, in someone who is more passive, vague in their intentionality. The appeal of wet clay, say, as opposed to dried concrete. Numerous frustrations aside, the active person gets the "reward" of being in the driver's seat, calling the shots, steering the ship. Or, in a word, a sense of control, and the comfort of being in control, which all of us humans crave.

 

I can't help but see some of that here, notably in the way you reached out to him, asking how he's doing during lockdown but telling him he can only respond in a certain way. Also in how you talked about his personal trajectory—how he would not have reached certain goals without your support. That is parental stuff, if you zoom out, in that it's finding personal value, identity, and worth in shaping the trajectory and personality of another person—an offshoot of codependence—and it's the stuff that kids find ways to reject and subvert even when it comes from their parents. Adults will do the same, not always gracefully, because people, even passive ones, are fiercely protective of their free will.

 

Guess the question is: Would you not find greater harmony and contentment with someone who, naturally, is more on your page? Or who has firmly established his own page, so you can more clearly assess whether or not that compliments your own? It's a more vulnerable proposition—you don't get to steer the same way—but if you find someone with a navigational prowess that aligns with yours that doesn't really matter. Interdependence replaces codependence, the power struggle snuffed out by mutual equality.

 

Honestly I get defensive over criticisms about helping him achieve his goals, for example he needed to pass a certification test to level up at work. Took the test 3x and failed. Was getting ready to give up completely. Then during a conversation with his mother it turns out when he was younger he always had testing mods in school which he is entitled to on this certification exam with proper documentation as well. He tried calling around but the type of evaluation was limited between the drs who offered it and insurance coverage. He ended up saying screw it and was ready to throw the towel in. I offered to call a few more doctors and did not stop until I found one who offered the evaluation AND accepted his insurance (this took many many phone calls which he would have never done). He got his testing mods and aced the certification on the 4th try. WHY is that so bad that my patience to make extra phone calls helped him achieve a goal that he would have otherwise given up on? Yes it’s me taking charge again in a sense I guess but he put in the studying work and passed that exam by his own accord all I did was facilitate some paperwork to help my partner SUCCEED. I should let him feel like a failure bc he didn’t have the patience to call 100 doctors offices? Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?

[Hollyj]

Honestly I get defensive over criticisms about helping him achieve his goals, for example he needed to pass a certification test to level up at work. Took the test 3x and failed. Was getting ready to give up completely. Then during a conversation with his mother it turns out when he was younger he always had testing mods in school which he is entitled to on this certification exam with proper documentation as well. He tried calling around but the type of evaluation was limited between the drs who offered it and insurance coverage. He ended up saying screw it and was ready to throw the towel in. I offered to call a few more doctors and did not stop until I found one who offered the evaluation AND accepted his insurance (this took many many phone calls which he would have never done). He got his testing mods and aced the certification on the 4th try. WHY is that so bad that my patience to make extra phone calls helped him achieve a goal that he would have otherwise given up on? Yes it’s me taking charge again in a sense I guess but he put in the studying work and passed that exam by his own accord all I did was facilitate some paperwork to help my partner SUCCEED. I should let him feel like a failure bc he didn’t have the patience to call 100 doctors offices? Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?

 

He is an adult and should be responsible for making calls that will help him complete his goals. Most men I know do what is necessary to help themselves, unless they know that there is someone who will take over the duties that they are responsible for.

 

OP, do you usually choose men who you have to "help?" This kid not a healthy dynamic (co dependance) for either party.

 

"Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?" This is untrue/offensive and part of your problem.

[DancingFool]

Honestly I get defensive over criticisms about helping him achieve his goals, for example he needed to pass a certification test to level up at work. Took the test 3x and failed. Was getting ready to give up completely. Then during a conversation with his mother it turns out when he was younger he always had testing mods in school which he is entitled to on this certification exam with proper documentation as well. He tried calling around but the type of evaluation was limited between the drs who offered it and insurance coverage. He ended up saying screw it and was ready to throw the towel in. I offered to call a few more doctors and did not stop until I found one who offered the evaluation AND accepted his insurance (this took many many phone calls which he would have never done). He got his testing mods and aced the certification on the 4th try. WHY is that so bad that my patience to make extra phone calls helped him achieve a goal that he would have otherwise given up on? Yes it’s me taking charge again in a sense I guess but he put in the studying work and passed that exam by his own accord all I did was facilitate some paperwork to help my partner SUCCEED. I should let him feel like a failure bc he didn’t have the patience to call 100 doctors offices? Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?

 

Short answer is yes, what you did was really really wrong.

 

Long answer is this that what you did is the definition of parenting. It's literally what a parent does for their kid. Junior doesn't want to do homework, mommy sits down and works through the homework with child, so Junior gets an A. You literally did exactly this.

 

Problem is that he is a grown man who is perfectly capable of doing whatever he wants, INCLUDING, opting to quit, fail, not pursue something because it's hard or not worth his effort. Your biggest problem is that you are projecting YOUR values, YOUR ambitions, YOUR drive, YOUR desire to succeed no matter what to someone who is completely different from you and is OK with being less than....except that people don't want to feel like they are less than. People want to be accepted for who they are, how they are, flaws and all. When you are pushing YOUR ambition on someone else, you are in effect sending a clear message to them over and over - you are not good enough as you are, let me fix you.

 

The right thing to do, the RESPECTFUL thing to do as a partner would have been to step back and leave him to it, as in you love him either way. Let HIM decide if he ultimately wants to pick it up and pursue it or quit because he is good with where he is at. Even if he is not good with where he is at, it's on him to take action to change the situation and do the work. I have no doubt that he said "thanks for helping me and without you I'd have not done it" and that made you feel great and what you are clinging to....BUT what you are failing to grasp is that you took away his agency, choice, and free will. Treated him like a little kid and even though he did get that A, deep down....it wasn't his precisely because he wouldn't have done it without a crutch pushing and pulling him along and that never feels like victory, feels more like cheating and ultimately like someone has usurped your life and who you are as a human being. Like you've given up your agency and got run over by a more forceful personality, aka you OP.

 

Overall, you keep saying that he is wishy washy and indecisive, buuuuut....he has been very clear that he is not interested in what you want - not settling down, not getting more serious, etc. How much more clear a man can be when he tells you straight up that he is not looking for those things. It's not that he is indecisive, it's that you are not listening to what the other person wants and more importantly you don't respect it at all. You are all driven about getting what YOU want and I can guarantee you that you if you don't wrap your head around this and fix it about yourself, your relationships will end in disaster every single time.

[NightFairy12]

He is an adult and should be responsible for making calls that will help him complete his goals. Most men I know do what is necessary to help themselves, unless they know that there is someone who will take over the duties that they are responsible for.

 

OP, do you usually choose men who you have to "help?" This kid not a healthy dynamic (co dependance) for either party.

 

"Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?" This is untrue/offensive and part of your problem.

 

Actually no previously I was with another type A that owned his own business and was very driven. This attracted me to him immensely. We butted heads bc he was my male counterpart and there were definitely moments where the fireworks came out during heated arguments. I was considered the more easy going one in that particular relationship. So I guess what this means is I’m screwed no matter if I’m with a type A or type B personality.

[NightFairy12]

Short answer is yes, what you did was really really wrong.

 

Long answer is this that what you did is the definition of parenting. It's literally what a parent does for their kid. Junior doesn't want to do homework, mommy sits down and works through the homework with child, so Junior gets an A. You literally did exactly this.

 

Problem is that he is a grown man who is perfectly capable of doing whatever he wants, INCLUDING, opting to quit, fail, not pursue something because it's hard or not worth his effort. Your biggest problem is that you are projecting YOUR values, YOUR ambitions, YOUR drive, YOUR desire to succeed no matter what to someone who is completely different from you and is OK with being less than....except that people don't want to feel like they are less than. People want to be accepted for who they are, how they are, flaws and all. When you are pushing YOUR ambition on someone else, you are in effect sending a clear message to them over and over - you are not good enough as you are, let me fix you.

 

The right thing to do, the RESPECTFUL thing to do as a partner would have been to step back and leave him to it, as in you love him either way. Let HIM decide if he ultimately wants to pick it up and pursue it or quit because he is good with where he is at. Even if he is not good with where he is at, it's on him to take action to change the situation and do the work. I have no doubt that he said "thanks for helping me and without you I'd have not done it" and that made you feel great and what you are clinging to....BUT what you are failing to grasp is that you took away his agency, choice, and free will. Treated him like a little kid and even though he did get that A, deep down....it wasn't his precisely because he wouldn't have done it without a crutch pushing and pulling him along and that never feels like victory, feels more like cheating and ultimately like someone has usurped your life and who you are as a human being. Like you've given up your agency and got run over by a more forceful personality, aka you OP.

 

Overall, you keep saying that he is wishy washy and indecisive, buuuuut....he has been very clear that he is not interested in what you want - not settling down, not getting more serious, etc. How much more clear a man can be when he tells you straight up that he is not looking for those things. It's not that he is indecisive, it's that you are not listening to what the other person wants and more importantly you don't respect it at all. You are all driven about getting what YOU want and I can guarantee you that you if you don't wrap your head around this and fix it about yourself, your relationships will end in disaster every single time.

 

I slightly see your analogy with the homework except what would you recommend there? Telling the kid you don’t want to do homework? Ok then don’t. I did not take the test for him, all I did was make a few phone calls. So your telling me I should have just been like ok give up on this if that’s what you want. Miss out on a great opportunity and throw it in the trash. I disagree. He told me he couldn’t find the resource I said really? do you want me to try? He said yes. Could have told me no don’t bother and then I wouldn’t have.

 

Except he’s not ok with being less than. Had a complete breakdown one night because he felt like a failure and your telling me no one else would sit with their partner and ask if there was any way they could help? And if the person says “yeah actually if you do x,y, or z it would would help me out a lot” everyone is going to say no do it yourself! I certainly wouldn’t want type of relationship. So when a friend says “I cant find affordable childcare!” Nobody ever says “let me ask around for you”. I don’t think what I did in that situation was so SO extreme. I made a few phone calls

[Wiseman2]

Also read : "Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man", by Scott Wetzler, PhD. Until you discover why you find yourself with men like this or their polar opposites you'll never know yourself or what makes you happy.

 

Read Tom Sawyer if you are painting fences for men too much with this "take charge" attitude. Learn more about yourself.

[NightFairy12]

Honestly I had no idea people felt so strongly about allowing others to fail by choice of free will. I mean I get it on some level but it’s just not in my nature maybe bc of the way I was raised and my family dynamics. But if his thinking is in line with you guys it’s no wonder he’s afraid of my ‘forceful personality’ I actually feel really bad now and don’t know how to rectify this

[Wiseman2]

Read and learn more about yourself so you don't date this type of man again and find yourself in the nagging, domineering, fixing, changing, mothering and smothering role. It breeds contempt and resistance in a partner as well as self-loathing in yourself. Reflect on why you need to run the show under the heading of "helpful".

don’t know how to rectify this

[abitbroken]

Overall, you keep saying that he is wishy washy and indecisive, buuuuut....he has been very clear that he is not interested in what you want - not settling down, not getting more serious, etc. How much more clear a man can be when he tells you straight up that he is not looking for those things. It's not that he is indecisive, it's that you are not listening to what the other person wants and more importantly you don't respect it at all.

 

I think he is a guy who very well could have settled down -- but men do it when it feels right. Like he said -- two people should get along easily without that much strife. my ex and i were strife -- my guy and i genuinely enjoy eachother and feel at ease together. A lot of guys do it when it feels right. You want to do it like a project manager. He were off to the races the minute he showed signs of wanting to get closer...and he would have made a move, or not, when he was ready. But he won't settle down with you. One day he will meet a woman where the connection is easy.

 

 

Honestly I get defensive over criticisms about helping him achieve his goals, for example he needed to pass a certification test to level up at work. Took the test 3x and failed. Was getting ready to give up completely. Then during a conversation with his mother it turns out when he was younger he always had testing mods in school which he is entitled to on this certification exam with proper documentation as well. He tried calling around but the type of evaluation was limited between the drs who offered it and insurance coverage. He ended up saying screw it and was ready to throw the towel in. I offered to call a few more doctors and did not stop until I found one who offered the evaluation AND accepted his insurance (this took many many phone calls which he would have never done). He got his testing mods and aced the certification on the 4th try. WHY is that so bad that my patience to make extra phone calls helped him achieve a goal that he would have otherwise given up on? Yes it’s me taking charge again in a sense I guess but he put in the studying work and passed that exam by his own accord all I did was facilitate some paperwork to help my partner SUCCEED. I should let him feel like a failure bc he didn’t have the patience to call 100 doctors offices? Let’s be real there are many men out there who won’t even ask for directions to help themselves should we just crucify the whole gender?

 

By doing this, you are saying loud and clear WHO YOU ARE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

if people criticize you over the same thing over and over, its time to look at it. WHY on earth are you calling his mother about this?? Do not have convos with mothers like this. He doesn't need a second mommy. You should have left him alone. If he didn't pass again, he would have stayed at his level at work, and maybe found some entirely different work that he was more suited to.

 

My guy might seem passive in some ways to some people = he takes a long time to make an important decision - but when he makes it -- that's it.

He is not passive - he just is not impulsive and carefully considers each option - he does not jump. But when he makes the decision he is 100% conidant about it - does not second guess himself and does not change his mind.

[abitbroken]

I slightly see your analogy with the homework except what would you recommend there? Telling the kid you don’t want to do homework? Ok then don’t. I did not take the test for him, all I did was make a few phone calls. So your telling me I should have just been like ok give up on this if that’s what you want. Miss out on a great opportunity and throw it in the trash. I disagree. He told me he couldn’t find the resource I said really? do you want me to try? He said yes. Could have told me no don’t bother and then I wouldn’t have.

 

Except he’s not ok with being less than. Had a complete breakdown one night because he felt like a failure and your telling me no one else would sit with their partner and ask if there was any way they could help? And if the person says “yeah actually if you do x,y, or z it would would help me out a lot” everyone is going to say no do it yourself! I certainly wouldn’t want type of relationship. So when a friend says “I cant find affordable childcare!” Nobody ever says “let me ask around for you”. I don’t think what I did in that situation was so SO extreme. I made a few phone calls

 

If the friend says "i can't find affordable childcare" you say "i am sorry to hear that. that must be frustrating." Unless your best friend happens to own a day care and was just saying yesterday "i can't find enough children!"

 

its not your circus/nor your monkeys. If he decided to not take the test again, he would still be an employed, healthy, functioning human being with a level of happiness.

 

Its not this one instance - its a combination of every time you have overstepped. He may have accepted your help this time, but he also later could have stepped back and said "wait a minute, i don't like who i am in this dynamic" Its a lot of little things that keep repeating and add up over time.

 

And i have missed GREAT opportunities in my life, but if i would have taken that opportunity, i would have missed out on something else that i had no idea about at the time. I have also taken what looked like great opportunities and they actually turned out not to be.

[NightFairy12]

I honestly feel really bad and if he aligns with all your guys’ thinking he must think I’m some crazy controlling person that he cannot talk to. Maybe it’s the way I grew up I never thought I was doing anything wrong by going out of my way to help. I don’t even begin to know how to remedy this as once someone establishes a firm opinion of you that’s really hard to change when they won’t even give you a chance

[abitbroken]

Honestly I had no idea people felt so strongly about allowing others to fail by choice of free will. I mean I get it on some level but it’s just not in my nature maybe bc of the way I was raised and my family dynamics. But if his thinking is in line with you guys it’s no wonder he’s afraid of my ‘forceful personality’ I actually feel really bad now and don’t know how to rectify this

 

He's not "AFRAID" of your personality. Its just not for him. Big difference. There isn't a way to rectify it with him. You rectify by moving forward.

 

Failing =

That's how you learn!!! If parents allow their child to fail, that's the only way a child learns and learns to deal with disappointment. My niece falls apart if she loses a game of checkers because school teaches that everyone wins/everyone gets a trophy. They can't handle it. When you fail, you lose gracefully, you figure out how to do better next time or you find something else you are better at. I tried to play the flute and i stunk. I really did poorly, but when i stayed in band but chose a different instrument, I excelled. I was first chair. I was last with flute.

[bluecastle]

I slightly see your analogy with the homework except what would you recommend there?

 

Not answering for DF, but what I'd recommend? Well, it would be partnering up, and emotionally investing, in someone who you believe, the marrow of your bones, can go about the business of living with gusto without you but in a way you respect, so that meaning and value is derived by sharing space rather than altering it.

 

Doesn't mean they won't stumble, or make choices that are different than yours and that, on occasion, you find deeply frustrating. But when you fundamentally trust that someone can live their life on a level you admire—and, most critically, when you don't need your own power affirmed by empowering another, particularly someone whose personal power you find suspect? You're simply less inclined to step in and do the heavy lifting, especially during moments when no one asked you to.

 

When my girlfriend voices frustration at something—be it about something serious (parenting, finances) or innocuous (the ongoing coolant issue in her car) I don't offer a solution, much as I do value myself as a nimble solver of problems. Why? It's not because I'm the coolest, wokest, most laidback dude. It's because I know she'll figure it out, in her own way, on her own time. I don't need to take a crowbar to my intellect—or a whip to my spirit—to find the knowledge; it's there in the cells. If it wasn't? I wouldn't be with her. Bad match. Wrong sort of friction. Mutually exhausting as opposed to mutually edifying.

 

If she explicitly asks me for advice, I will offer it, which is different than doing the thing I think she should do for her. Whether she takes my advice or not? Doesn't matter to me, as I'm not invested in that kind of ego-based reward system. I can get those rocks off elsewhere—on, say, my motorcycle or in indulging in the craft that allows me to keep the lights on. No different, really, than if you think what I'm writing her is compete drivel or profound wisdom. It's legit cool either way! I respect you to metabolize this post in whatever way you determine is best for you.

 

Rather than think of people as "types," be it A or B, I'd challenge yourself to think of them—and yourself—as people. You will not respect all of them, or value the way all of them live their life. You will clash with some more than others. That is...okay. But those you experiment with in the business of partnership? It is simply much, much easier when you respect them a million times more than you clash with them, because in that you allow them the space to be themselves, as you have space to be yourself. Nothing to prove, nothing to win, no pressure to perform, but simply coexistence rather than head butting.

 

How to "remedy" all this? Not to sound super Buddhist, but I think it starts with accepting that there is nothing to remedy, only a set of jagged facts and feelings to accept, and process. Friction is friction is friction. The fuel of you inside a different engine—meaning a different person, after a touch of refining on your own, though some reflection—will be less combustive.

[abitbroken]

I honestly feel really bad and if he aligns with all your guys’ thinking he must think I’m some crazy controlling person that he cannot talk to. Maybe it’s the way I grew up I never thought I was doing anything wrong by going out of my way to help. I don’t even begin to know how to remedy this as once someone establishes a firm opinion of you that’s really hard to change when they won’t even give you a chance

 

There are many people who teach their children to be helpers -- but to help humbly. Not to micromanage someone else's life.

 

If you have a need to always help, find out when a group at your church or your rotary or business chamber you are a part of needs volunteers to go to the soup kitchen. There are TONS of ways you can help, but you have to take your ego out of it and he the hands and feet people need . Foster care agencies are looking for people to be volunteer friends of the court/advocates for kids. Foster a dog or cat. When there is a sign up to clean up the river bank or the park - do it. Do they need someone to help fundraise to save a historic building you care about. do it. Let the person who is in charge, be in charge. There are zillions of things you can do.