Here we go again...

[reinventmyself]

Story:

My big brother and I fall on opposite sides of the political fence. This pandemic has turned my world upside down and has affected those close to me in many ways .. which for the sake of space I won't go into.

My brother is obsessed to the extreme with all the conspiracy theories spinning around. If I want to go there, I could find offense to this due to the impact this has on my life and others close to me.

 

We've been in regular contact lately and I patiently listen to his rhetoric. I respect that he is absolutely entitled to his opinion and because I love him and want a relationship with him, I choose to not debate it with him. I might cringe a little at his information, because in my opinion it doesn't quite ring right - to me. But I am on the other end of the phone and he can't see the expression on my face.

 

It's just an opinion. Everyone has them. He is aware of my stance on the subject but I don't feel the need to defend it.

 

I totally trust where his heart is at and I don't take it personally or think it's an attack on myself and others around me.

 

Much like you, there is a limit to my patience, so I gently redirect the conversation to something else more pleasant.

 

Why? Because I care about him and want to preserve our relationship.

[Whirling D]

Story:

My big brother and I fall on opposite sides of the political fence. This pandemic has turned my world upside down and has affected those close to me in many ways .. which for the sake of space I won't go into.

My brother is obsessed to the extreme with all the conspiracy theories spinning around. If I want to go there, I could find offense to this due to the impact this has on my life and others close to me.

 

We've been in regular contact lately and I patiently listen to his rhetoric. I respect that he is absolutely entitled to his opinion and because I love him and want a relationship with him, I choose to not debate it with him. I might cringe a little at his information, because in my opinion it doesn't quite ring right - to me. But I am on the other end of the phone and he can't see the expression on my face.

 

It's just an opinion. Everyone has them. He is aware of my stance on the subject but I don't feel the need to defend it.

 

I totally trust where his heart is at and I don't take it personally or think it's an attack on myself and others around me.

 

Much like you, there is a limit to my patience, so I gently redirect the conversation to something else more pleasant.

 

Why? Because I care about him and want to preserve our relationship.

 

That’s a very familiar story and sounds close to my story… Thank you for sharing. Thank you for continued dialogue, as well. It is helpful.

 

Prior to last night, things have been going fairly well between her and I when we talked about complicated things that involved different perspectives. I have been getting better at leaving things alone and moving to different topics. It has been working fairly well.

 

Even so, I think this problem comes from both of our sensitivities to the topic of politics. I’m not sure why, but when she gets into her rhetoric, it gets under my skin. To me, it doesn’t sound well informed. When I challenged her rhetoric, it gets under her skin.

 

I did feel I needed to be honest last night when it all began and she started spewing stuff that to me was distracting. That’s pretty much all I told her, is that I felt that her perspective on what she was saying was bothering me. She then seemed to take it as a character assassination and responded in kind.

 

I don’t know… With the things that are really good about this girl, this up and down with her coming and going because she gets mad at me when I disagree with her is getting old. The more I think about it the less Determination I feel to reach out.

 

That being said, I have several friends that tell me I should in no way reach out. Their perspective is that it is her bad behavior last night by getting all upset about stuff and storming out of my house, and that it should be her that reaches back out to me, and if I reach out to her it will enable bad behavior to continue in the future. I guess there could be some truth to that perspective. My mom thinks it would be a kind thing for me to reach out to her and just tell her that I’m thinking about her and that if she wants to talk to try to work things out that I would be open to it.

 

Not sure which way to go with it.

[bluecastle]

I think you would find a relationship a lot easier with someone you respected.

 

Now, I suspect that sounds like an attack, and your urge is to defend, because no one wants to be labeled as "disrespectful." Thing is, that's not what I'm saying.

 

Analogy time. I'm a big reader, but some writers? Well, I simply respect them more than others. It's a taste thing, in ways, that can't quite be explained. Writer X I respect, and take seriously, while Writer Y I think is a little trashy, a little rote. Others have different opinions, and that's beautiful. Kumbaya, and all that.

 

Now, to stretch this a bit, if I tried to date Writer Y? It would be a mess. She could be so great, in so many ways, but the fact that deep down I thought she was kind of trashy on the page, that her deepest expression of herself was a bit rote—well, it would come up. She'd sense this and she wouldn't like it. Cue combat. We'd find things to argue about—maybe highfalutin discussions of language, one day, or how to cook asparagus the next—but those would be proxy arguments fueled by a lack of respect that both of us were too stubborn to admit.

 

That, more or less, is what I see here, and in your other posts. Gun to head, I think you think the tools in your toolbox are sharper, more valid, more precise, better for surgery. You just....do. Doesn't make you a monster, just like I'm not a monster for thinking Writer Y is meh while Writer X, who writes plenty of things I don't care for, is pretty amazing. Again, a taste thing. Or, in relationships, a compatibility thing. It's in political discussions where this lack of organic respect raises its head between you two, but it's there throughout: that's just the tinder box that sparks the wrong kind of fire.

 

Your workaround to all this? Well, it's to work, to lean on the value of work, to see the relationship less as two people than as some kind of personal project that's 90 percent about you and 10 percent about this "good girl." You want a blue ribbon for that work. Badly. And you want the girl to pin it to your lapel. But relationships? They're not work, not like that. There is no ribbon. There is just two people sharing space, day after day, and seeing what happens when they do. It should feel pretty good, pretty easy, not like math or therapy or academia. When it comes to take on those shapes? The reasons are numerous, and unique, always. But 90 percent of the time, at minimum, a big part of it is that respect just ain't there.

 

Think of respect like grease in an engine: keeps the gears running smoothly, even when things get a little clunky. Now think of your dynamic here, which is one where the engine explodes whenever things get clunky, and then you become a mechanic, trying to fix it, analyze it, improve it, and excavate the mechanic in her. Gets going again, kind of purring, but soon enough it's stalling out. Again. Because there's no grease, no respect. Not a you thing, not a her thing, but more of a fact of you plus her.

 

My take, at least, to spend how you see fit.

[Whirling D]

I think you would find a relationship a lot easier with someone you respected.

 

Now, I suspect that sounds like an attack, and your urge is to defend, because no one wants to be labeled as "disrespectful." Thing is, that's not what I'm saying.

 

Analogy time. I'm a big reader, but some writers? Well, I simply respect them more than others. It's a taste thing, in ways, that can't quite be explained. Writer X I respect, and take seriously, while Writer Y I think is a little trashy, a little rote. Others have different opinions, and that's beautiful. Kumbaya, and all that.

 

Now, to stretch this a bit, if I tried to date Writer Y? It would be a mess. She could be so great, in so many ways, but the fact that deep down I thought she was kind of trashy on the page, that her deepest expression of herself was a bit rote—well, it would come up. She'd sense this and she wouldn't like it. Cue combat.

 

My take, at least, to spend how you see fit.

 

 

 

Thank you, BC.

 

Your post is very thoughtful and resonates deeply.

 

Can any one person meet every need, and is respect ever 100% present with any partner? I don’t think I’ve ever been with someone where I felt I respected every aspect of their to personality, and likely visa versa. I would think that it’s just natural human condition. Nobody’s perfect.

 

This girl and I come from very different backgrounds. She grew up in a rugged working class city, I grew up out in the country. We grew up with very different environments. Her view of the world is different than mine. So far, all good. I value the fact that she respects my way of life and wants to be a part of it.

 

I’m not so sure that what we are necessarily talking about here is respect. I think it’s value, which may be fundamentally different than respect. In several areas, I don’t value what she represents. I suppose respect is entangled in that, but it’s a byproduct of it, not the originator of it. Politics is one area that respect definitely enters the equation, at least as it’s equal. I can’t help that. I value a political stance that respects certain values. On the surface, her political Philosophies don’t always match up to that. That is somewhat troubling to me. Respect equilibrium goes down. Sometimes, she can be downright mean in her representation of those beliefs. That rubs me entirely the wrong way, whether you call it value or respect.

 

I can’t value or respect some of what she says related to politics... not all of it. Just some. She knows that. I just can’t. I can value highly some of the other characteristics that she brings to the table. Some of her characteristics are among those that I value most in life. I don’t know how to reconcile that. There’s a dichotomy going on there. She is the wonderful author you described, but has a side of the trashy one, as well. Do I completely discount this relationship because I don’t relate to her trashy side? Well, I may not have a choice if I have destroyed the relationship.

 

I do believe she senses my disrespect, which is true. I think I made it pretty clear that night. I suspect she has the Notion that she wants a perfect relationship, where there are no holes. Does that really exist? Are there really two people that are not going to have holes in some capacity? I think what we brought to each other has a ton to offer. Do I really let that go because of her political convictions and determinations? That’s a hard one, when I feel the power of all of the other areas that work really well. I feel frustrated by that political maelstrom. I have yet to find a partner with which I have no holes. Maybe it’s me that has the fantasy of perfection, who knows. I think I have grown enough in the last many years to be able to try to coexist with that which contains holes. It just isn’t perfect. I don’t feel capable of being that evolved.

 

I don’t have a lot of time to waste, at my age. I have likely been single in my adult life much more than I have been partnered, And I feel like I don’t just want to throw this relationship away because there is some grease missing. So, I think your analogy about the engine would work if we Said that there was grease in there, but not with no grease, if that makes any sense.

 

I don’t know. I know this lady is likely at home right now hurting badly because she feels the relationship has failed. I think she also wants/needs 100% respect. I think to her, that may be more necessary than it is for me. If I knew that my partner disrespected a certain part of my personality, I could probably live with that, I guess depending on what it was. It kind of seems like she has the attitude that she should be able to do and say whatever she wants and have it be fully 100% accepted AND respected. I think that is a bit much. I don’t think I would expect that from myself.

 

Can anybody on here describe their relationship as 100% fully respectful in all areas? I wonder if that’s possible.

 

I don’t know, blue. I’m confused. May be confusion and uncertainty is just a constant fact of my life. I have tried to change my perspectives on her political beliefs. I really have. I thought I was making progress letting it be what it was. In my gut, I know it’s not worth the aggravation to argue about it. At times, it just can’t help but rub me the wrong way, and it gets under my skin. It’s not the end of the world for me. Apparently, it’s a much bigger deal to her, as evidenced by her storming out of my house the other night and not hearing from her since.

 

And so, I wake up alone in an empty house, because I don’t respect her political rhetoric? It just doesn’t seem worth it to destroy a relationship because of that.

[MissCanuck]

I wish it was that simple, MissCanuck. She and I have other things that are keenly similar, which makes us a good fit in several other significant areas. That’s what complicates this scenario, at least for me.

 

Obviously it's not that simple. But I also think you two over-complicate things by continuously trying to shove square pegs into round holes. The political arguments are manifestations of bigger incompatibilities and areas of conflict.

 

And really, when the political landscape influences your relationship to this degree, your relationship has a very flimsy foundation already. The problem isn't politics, at the end of the day. Far from it.

[Whirling D]

Obviously it's not that simple. But I also think you two over-complicate things by continuously trying to shove square pegs into round holes. The political arguments are manifestations of bigger incompatibilities and areas of conflict.

 

And really, when the political landscape influences your relationship to this degree, your relationship has a very flimsy foundation already. The problem isn't politics, at the end of the day. Far from it.

 

Thank you for your perspective. I really appreciate it.

 

It is likely me that is trying to shove square pegs into round holes. I don’t know. We come from very different backgrounds. That can be good and bad all wrapped into one. There are incompatibilities, but not at every corner. They do influence how we feel, but I don’t think they have to be deal breakers. I have never felt that they were deal breakers. It does bring up stress.

 

One of the things that I have been trying to do quite a bit in my life, in almost every area, is to value what I have right in front of me and let go of the things that are not as important. Political leanings have to be one of those things for me, if I want this situation to survive. This girl has some beautiful attributes, and that’s what I’m trying to focus on. Perhaps I slipped the other night when I showed aggravation regarding her political view points. Her response seemed incommensurate with what I was saying, but clearly, I wasn’t good at hearing what she was trying to say to me, which was she felt like my opinions were invalidating hers. I don’t know how to get past that. I don’t know what I can give her. In almost every other aspect of our relationship, we talk about stuff in a very positive and proactive way. She talks, I listen. I talk, she listens. it works fairly convincingly. I just don’t get how this falls apart so quickly when we start to talk about politics.

 

Both her and I would quickly say that it is likely her fear of relationships, due to her Trumatic past, that starts the process rolling into the gutter. I do believe that my demons also play a role, which is why I react so badly when politics comes into the equation. I tried very hard to work on that, and sometimes successfully. I wish I could just let that stuff go, and I’m working on it.

 

My biggest head scratcher right now is to whether to reach out to her. I do want her to feel that I am thinking about her and feel badly about how she feels that I devalue her opinion. I don’t try to do that, and I Have always tried really hard to be sensitive to her needs. I wasn’t as good at it that night, but I certainly wasn’t terrible at it. I said nothing blatantly mean or disrespectful. At all. She tells me her opinion on something. I tell her mine. She feels that her opinion is invalidated by what I say. How do I manage that? Clearly, when one person has an opinion, it by nature means that the person believes their opinion more than they do that of the other. I believe that she “hears“ what I am saying in a different way than what I am intending. I believe that she thinks that I do the exact same thing. So, I’m not sure the answer is that we are just incompatible. I think we just have to get better at interpreting what each other is saying without letting it get under our skin.

 

But first, we have to get through the anger that she clearly feels toward me right now. How do I do that? Should I do that? Other people are saying that I should just let her figure it out on her own and

 

But first, we have to get through the anger that she clearly feels toward me right now. How do I do that? Should I do that? Other people are saying that I should just let her figure it out on her own and come to me and let her come to me.

[reinventmyself]

I went back and reread your first posts regarding this relationship. You two have done this dance pretty much throughout the short time you've been dating.

Outside of politics she's challenged your parenting, she aggressively dismissed your concerns about social distancing, despite you having a child at home and the ever present and ongoing heated disagreements about politics.

 

You mention that you feel that time is passing you by and the waking up alone. If I were you I'd spend some more time seriously reconsidering whether this is worth saving. Don't let the fear of being alone stop you from making a well thought out decision.

 

You aren't waking up alone simply due to a differing view of politic rhetoric as you state. That's minimizing this experience. You woke up alone this morning because you've been dating someone who is not a match for you.

 

It shouldn't be this difficult.

[Lambert]

Yes, the politics. Think of Archie Bunker. If you ever watched the show all in the family, he would spew out all kinds of stuff and have no interest in hearing anyone challenge anything that he said. That’s how it feels in the situation. I felt that I was calmly reflecting my own feelings about what I heard her saying, and she was getting angry that I wasn’t responding understandingly to her explanations to it.

 

She Doesn’t really say anything that is hugely racist or misogynist, or anything like that. Her rhetoric is often very divisive. She will say nasty things about political leaders that I actually think are pretty good, and then she will say things like “all the people on this side of the political landscape are always…“ I will respond to her by telling her that absolutely no one that I know on that side of the political landscape does the things that she saying. No one. She was saying, “everybody in the world knows that this is true” I responded by saying, “absolutely no one that I know believes that”. It’s her truth and it’s my truth. I would be rattled by her saying those things, but she seems to be more offended when I do it. She says that what I say to her devalues her opinion, yet the way that she responds to me when I simply tell her what I observe with my own political allies, she gets bent out of shape. She devalues my opinion in exactly the same way, but it seems worse when I do it to her, even though she does the exact same thing to me. I said that to her multiple times last night.

 

I have been telling her I love her and I want to work things out all along. That’s nothing new. SHe has been telling me that, as well. It’s just odd that this all went down last night after a good stretch of very positive interactions and some good times. She seems to go up and down with the wind, gauging how she feels by how well we are doing. I do that, as well, but I think she banks her whole mood on it. I guess I do too.

 

I have people that I know that have suggested she may be bipolar. That is a very difficult consideration, but one I have thought about. I have my own struggles with mental health, as well, so I don’t say that judgingly… Just as an observer.

 

Just to clarify… She didn’t speak to me for three weeks back in early February because she was angry at me for almost the exact same reason. I then went completely radio silent in every way, and finally after three weeks, she texted me to say her final goodbye, at which point I called her up instantly and encouraged her to rethink her decision, which she did. It went really well for about a month after that.

Archie bunker? Not only is an unbearable type of person, its from 30-40 years ago. (meaning that mentality)

 

Are you just afraid to be alone?

[Whirling D]

I went back and reread your first posts regarding this relationship. You two have done this dance pretty much throughout the short time you've been dating.

 

You aren't waking up alone simply due to a differing view of politic rhetoric as you state. That's minimizing this experience. You woke up alone this morning because you've been dating someone who is not a match for you.

 

It shouldn't be this difficult.

 

Well, if we didn’t have other things that we connected on in a deep and powerful way, I guess it would be much easier to see that we aren’t a good fit. We connect so deeply in other significant areas. It is almost hard to see that this is the same person. On one hand, she can be insanely giving, nurturing and supportive… She is affectionate in a way that is so powerful, and that works so well for my needs.

 

On the other hand, when she goes on these tirades, almost solely about politics, or for that matter, anything that I have a different opinion on, you see an ugly side come out of her that bothers me. That’s pretty much what it came down to on Sunday nights argument. I told her what was Bothering me, and It’s spiraled out of control. I wish I had a video of the entire interaction, so I could go back and look at it and see just what it was that I might’ve said, or what I might’ve been able to do differently, that would have made it turn out differently. I think I know. I think she needed validation, and I was afraid to give it to her, given her very aggressive posture. She does posture a lot… “I know what I’m talking about… Why aren’t you listening to me?“. I read recently, and an article of psychology today, that people that have been verbally or physically abused in the past Tend to feel that they need to overcompensate By controlling conversations and expecting to be right a lot of the time. I might fall in that category as well.

 

We have had other conversations in the last while that have not turned out this way. Even political ones. That’s why I’m having such a hard time with this, and I suspect that’s why she’s having such a hard time. I have always been a firm believer that we shouldn’t sweat the small things, and we should learn to work proactively to overcome issues like this. I think this is a mental health issue, and I think it is a communication style issue. I care about who she is in almost all other ways except for these issues. I don’t even mind her having dark conversations with me to help her get through some of her worries about relationships. At least it has been showing that she is trying hard to understand her own behavior. If she fails to try to do that this time around, by controlling conversations and expecting to be right a lot of the time. I might fall in that category as well.I guess the rating will be on the wall.

 

So… I’m still going back in my head as to whether or not to reach out to her, or let it be and wait for her to reach out to me, if she ever does. I guess there are pros and cons with each.

[Whirling D]

Archie bunker? Not only is an unbearable type of person, its from 30-40 years ago. (meaning that mentality)

 

Are you just afraid to be alone?

 

Yes, I am very afraid to be alone. Interestingly, I was single for five years after the failure of my marriage. It started off really tough, but I got used to it, and I actually enjoy my downtime. However, I get very panicked with the thought of her leaving and me being alone again. I think it’s the feeling of isolation and the terror of failure and loneliness. I don’t have a good track record attracting women, likely because of my physical appearance and also what most would say is my very soft-spoken nature. I can be very shy. You would probably never pick up on those things by what I am writing here… :-). My fear of missing out on all of the things that make being with someone so valuable… Intimacy… Conversation… Caring. By myself, there was no one here to do those things with. That pretty much sucks.

[reinventmyself]

No one is all bad. We can all look bad fondly at past partners good qualities. But despite the good qualities there are undeniable deal breakers. Only you will know what those are

But the continual highly charged arguments and the profound differences in values ultimately may not overcome her good points.

 

And I do want to point out, while you suss this out you are defending her and at the same time lambasting her shortcomings. It's hard to tell where you stand.

I suppose that's the purpose of this thread.

 

Just know it feels a little taxing on this end trying to figure out what to say to you anymore while you sort this out.

 

Don't let your fear run the show here and ultimately lower your standards. I suspect you already know what to do but are afraid to do it. It's ok, we've all been there

Don't forget. You are a parent, bytheway. You aren't just choosing for yourself.

[Lambert]

Yes, I am very afraid to be alone. Interestingly, I was single for five years after the failure of my marriage. It started off really tough, but I got used to it, and I actually enjoy my downtime. However, I get very panicked with the thought of her leaving and me being alone again. I think it’s the feeling of isolation and the terror of failure and loneliness. I don’t have a good track record attracting women, likely because of my physical appearance and also what most would say is my very soft-spoken nature. I can be very shy. You would probably never pick up on those things by what I am writing here… :-). My fear of missing out on all of the things that make being with someone so valuable… Intimacy… Conversation… Caring. By myself, there was no one here to do those things with. That pretty much sucks.

The best way to deal with fears is to face them head on.

 

If you are willing to tolerate what you don't want, just so you won't be alone, where's the potential for happiness?

 

Where do you see your life going?

 

It seems like you're not being very realistic about the future. meaning you can't bank your happiness on another person changing.

 

Spend some time thinking about what you really want.

 

This settle and deal with whatever obviously isn't working.

 

Maybe you will need to accept some time alone until you meet someone else.

[reinventmyself]

After having been through a painful divorce, I'd have those 'ah ha!' moments when I found myself wasting my time with undesirable men or men I chose out of fear of being alone.

 

I realized I hadn't come this far to make another poor decision. That and if anything, my kids deserved better from me. Because my choice now effected them. Whether directly or indirectly. They deserved a happy, content mother.

 

That's why I would (work at) choosing wisely or (work at) being happily single.

 

With everything going against you two and having already been married and divorced, you should know better what it takes to make a relationship successful. And you should know better the early signs that things will likely go sideways. And if you don't, you should spend some time considering it wisely

[Whirling D]

No one is all bad. We can all look bad fondly at past partners good qualities. But despite the good qualities there are undeniable deal breakers. Only you will know what those are

But the continual highly charged arguments and the profound differences in values ultimately may not overcome her good points.

 

And I do want to point out, while you suss this out you are defending her and at the same time lambasting her shortcomings. It's hard to tell where you stand.

I suppose that's the purpose of this thread.

 

Just know it feels a little taxing on this end trying to figure out what to say to you anymore while you sort this out.

 

Don't let your fear run the show here and ultimately lower your standards. I suspect you already know what to do but are afraid to do it. It's ok, we've all been there

Don't forget. You are a parent, bytheway. You aren't just choosing for yourself.

 

Thank you, RM. Excellent post.

 

I understand your frustration with my indecision. I am frustrated, myself. I don’t know which way to go. Yes, I go back-and-forth between her mental health issues and her wonderful qualities. She is really good to my daughter… Thoughtful, giving, playful. She’s a very nurturing person. We usually have a good time when we hang out, and we both play a lot of music together since we are both musical.

 

I don’t know what the future would hold with her. I worry that she is going to get more angry as she gets older. Who knows, it could go the other way. Do we ever really know what we will be like as we start to fail healthwise?

 

Yes. I am fearful. I don’t really want to be alone for the rest of my life, and there is no guarantee that I will find someone to partner with that doesn’t have something that is going to be similar. At least with my current lady, we have some other things that are acutely common. This has been the only lady in my adult life that I have dated that I have these other things in common with. I feel very lucky for that.

 

And I must say, the frequency of our political debates that become really heated like this aren’t “regular” if that’s the impression I was giving. We had one back in February which led to her not speaking to me for three weeks. I thought we were done. I did radio silence for the entire time until she wrote me to say her final goodbye, at which point I called her and we began working it out. We have had little debates, and many of them did not end badly at all… So, this is the first really heated debate that we have had in a while.

 

As far as you knowing what to say… There is no easy or correct answer, or no easy or correct thing to say on here. I don’t think I’m looking for absolutes… I just appreciate that people are offering perspective regarding the things that I am conveying on here. I know it’s neurotic, but I am home with little to do, as are many people. I value hearing from people on here like you who express their opinions based on what I write. I think it helps me for my own thoughts and my own plans moving forward, if that makes any sense… :-). So, for that, I thank you!

[DancingFool]

One way to ensure that you feel alone and lonely for the rest of your life is to cling to wrong partners and try to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

 

You say that you are afraid to be alone, but it sounds to me like you are afraid to have a healthy and fulfilling relationship. This on/off mess, for whatever reason suits because at its heart, it's an arm's length relationship rather than full on genuine intimacy. The strife and emotional incompatibility ultimately keeps the deeper, more meaningful connection at bay...or rather makes it impossible.

 

Maybe it's time for you to be a little more honest with yourself - are you even really ready for a proper relationship or are you just content with a messy illusion of one.

[Whirling D]

One way to ensure that you feel alone and lonely for the rest of your life is to cling to wrong partners and try to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

 

You say that you are afraid to be alone, but it sounds to me like you are afraid to have a healthy and fulfilling relationship. This on/off mess, for whatever reason suits because at its heart, it's an arm's length relationship rather than full on genuine intimacy. The strife and emotional incompatibility ultimately keeps the deeper, more meaningful connection at bay...or rather makes it impossible.

 

Maybe it's time for you to be a little more honest with yourself - are you even really ready for a proper relationship or are you just content with a messy illusion of one.

 

You make very good points, dancing fool.…

 

Well, I had put myself out there in every way that I could to fine just that, a healthy relationship. That just wasn’t happening. As mentioned earlier, I don’t seem to attract that kind of woman. I live a little outside of the box, so to speak, and I think it only attracts a certain kind of lady. Ive tried.

 

There has been no shortage of either emotional or physical intimacy with my current lady, at all. We have been pretty tight and pretty functional over the last few months, and even the last year, minus the three week hiatus. And we have been very close. We have talked about almost everything about ourselves under the sun… She may be discovering a lot more about herself with me than vice versa, but I’m happy to go there. We have been really good friends. It’s been very nice a lot of the times. Has it been perfect… Clearly not. But I wonder if I can ever expect that. I think my fickle brain will also get in the way there.

[Wiseman2]

Some people need a tempestuous situation to keep the passion alive. You two also have that in common. Have sex, fight, make up, have sex...and so on.

There has been no shortage of either emotional or physical intimacy with my current lady, at all.

[Whirling D]

Some people need a tempestuous situation to keep the passion alive. You two also have that in common. Have sex, fight, make up, have sex...and so on.

 

No… At least for me, it’s not like that at all. I can’t speak for her. Maybe she’s used to drama and this is her way of backpedaling a bit to give herself some of her own space.

 

After all, I did challenge her political posturing and didn’t let down. This may be her way of punishing me. I don’t think she does this necessarily consciously. But how do you really do anything like that without thought? It’s possible she feels hurt and let down that her significant other would challenge her important political beliefs? I don’t get it, but I guess it’s not for me to get. So they say.

[Wiseman2]

Use Aikido on her. Let her fall on her own weight. Shock her by agreeing. It's like a tug of war, when you simply let the rope go... the other person falls. You two are too used to playing fox news and it's a cycle only you can break.

 

You can agree without agreeing. For example, "I see what you are saying", "I understand how you feel about this", etc etc etc. This way you are not backing down from your own thoughts but simply moving her intense energy about things to a third space in stead of in your face.

I did challenge her political posturing and didn’t let down.

[Whirling D]

Use Aikido on her. Let her fall on her own weight. Shock her by agreeing. It's like a tug of war, when you simply let the rope go... the other person falls. You two are too used to playing fox news and it's a cycle only you can break.

 

You can agree without agreeing. For example, "I see what you are saying", "I understand how you feel about this", etc etc etc. This way you are not backing down from your own thoughts but simply moving her intense energy about things to a third space in stead of in your face.

 

Ironically, I use this kind of strategy in almost every other scenario… Except her political posturing. It’s hard to stay silent when she says stuff that doesn’t add up. Although, they are her beliefs, and I have to respect them, so I hear.

 

Plus, she also has to be open to hearing me out, if that ever happens…

[reinventmyself]

 

 

After all, I did challenge her political posturing and didn’t let down. This may be her way of punishing me. .

 

It's interesting that you say that now, because yesterday you were certain you were being very fair and painted a picture of you gently, but merely nudging her while she was . .in your own words `shooting off her mouth'.

 

It's this what I have an issue with. You are part of the problem. To what degree, I am not sure. But you won't take responsibility for your part. For you this all circles back to her past trauma. So unfair.

 

You told a story in a previous post where you wouldn't let go of a subject in the middle of the night when the two of you would otherwise be sleeping and the responders were giving you grief for it then.

 

snippets from previous threads:

 

So, in order not to make it a debate, I simply forwarded her some professional articles that underscored what I was trying to say.

 

Yes, I was putting a lot of pressure on her that night, in the wee hours, because her demeanor came out of nowhere, and her disconnect seems uncharacteristic of her. I wasn’t yelling at her, I wasn’t accusing her of anything, I was merely trying to get her to open up the dialogue.

 

I could add more, but I wont. .

[bluecastle]

Reinvent is expressing a lot of my own impressions here.

 

Were I to let go of a few filters, I'd say something like: I think you'd be better matched with someone you either (a) believed is genuinely as smart as you or (b) someone who truly doesn't care if you think you're smarter. In either of the above, I think, you'd find the need to be right, or have the last word, won't be so potent—either because you'd be able to stand down more often (choice a) or because you'd never have to (choice b).

 

Or you come to terms with the fact that part of what makes for a "deep connection" in you is pushing the buttons of someone who, by their very being, pushes yours in return. Because that's a lot of what I see here, in terms of how you two bond: a mutual lack of humility intertwining, coming to a head, leaving you each exhausted, and then resuming the dance when your strength is back. Whatever story about relationships you're trying to write with this one, that is the story of what it actually is, you know?

[Whirling D]

It's interesting that you say that now, because yesterday you were certain you were being very fair and painted a picture of you gently, but merely nudging her while she was . .in your own words `shooting off her mouth'.

 

It's this what I have an issue with. You are part of the problem. To what degree, I am not sure. But you won't take responsibility for your part. For you this all circles back to her past trauma. So unfair.

 

You told a story in a previous post where you wouldn't let go of a subject in the middle of the night when the two of you would otherwise be sleeping and the responders were giving you grief for it then.

 

snippets from previous threads:

 

So, in order not to make it a debate, I simply forwarded her some professional articles that underscored what I was trying to say.

 

Yes, I was putting a lot of pressure on her that night, in the wee hours, because her demeanor came out of nowhere, and her disconnect seems uncharacteristic of her. I wasn’t yelling at her, I wasn’t accusing her of anything, I was merely trying to get her to open up the dialogue.

 

I could add more, but I wont. .

 

Well I’m trying to do the best I can with a bad situation. I’m not perfect. I’ve been trying to think all day of what I said to her and how it could have come across to her.

 

Her and I think differently, I believe. In my opinion, sometimes she starts talking smack... meaning... she starts spewing stuff that seems not fully informed, and a bit annoying. I’ve been pretty good at deflecting it, but it still bothers me.

 

That night, when she began saying stuff that I highly expected to get irritated by, I lost composure a bit... not much, but just enough to make it clear that I wasn’t keen on hearing her bash news shows that I thought were credible. She tried to backtrack a bit, and I challenged her on it, telling her I didn’t believe that the news organization is biased. She said that that’s not what she was going to do, and made up all kinds of reasons to support that she wasn’t going to do that, which contradicted her usual mantra that all mainstream media is left-wing biased, except for Fox. We moved on quickly from that, Although it was clear to her that I was being antagonistic toward her rationale.

 

Next, she started to question the validity of the show again, saying that what the doctors and administrators of a southern hospital were saying about the virus affect didn’t make sense... She kept insisting that she’s in the healthcare field, and said, “I know what I’m talking about”. I Responded by saying, “How can you possibly doubt what these people are saying? You can’t possibly know what the conditions are like down there, when we live in the northeast.” She persisted that she knew what she was talking about, and I repeated my assertion a bit later that she couldn’t possibly know what it was like down there, so you cannot know with certainty.

 

Nothing I said was sad angry, but relatively calmly but assertively. Later in the argument, I said to her “sometimes you will say things and you will insist that you know what you are talking about, but sometimes I think you try too hard to impress either me or yourself that you know what you’re talking about, but sometimes I don’t think you do, and this is one of those cases.” That’s what she does… She postures and insists that she knows what she’s talking about, but I don’t believe she always does know. I find that irritating and frustrating. How do I handle that… If I suspect she’s posturing?

 

My interest here is in to defend myself, but to give you an idea of what kind of conversations were happening.

 

A little while later, she was insisting that The news anchors that are on one of the well-known new stations are constantly not only trashing the president, but all of his followers. And I responded to her by saying that I watch that station fairly regularly and I don’t see that happening “always”. I see them talking about things that they don’t like about the president, and there are certain shows that I will avoid because I know there’s a lot of trash talk on them, but for the most part I don’t see that media outlet constantly trashing the voters. I just don’t. She was horrified that I would say that and she said she thought she must be stupid then. Then she was saying that all of one party people believed in a certain ideology… And I said to her, not one person that I know in that party believes in that ideology. She got worse.

 

It was just stuff like that. I felt like I was standing up for what I was believing in, in response to her trash talk. I try to make it neutral by agreeing that both sides of the political parties are guilty of doing almost the exact same things, but she insisted that her party was not as guilty as the party that I follow. I disagreed.

 

Then she was saying that all of the people of one party Believe in this crazy ideology… To which I replied that nobody that I know that follows that party believes in that ideology. Then she said something like, well I must just be stupid then..

 

Anyway… I tend to think that she probably sees me as a verbal bully in this case. I didn’t harass her, or yell at her, even though she was pretty much using very loud forceful talk with me, and often speaking to me as if I was a child, Which I don’t care for…

 

I suppose see how she would think that it was an unfavorable conversation, since I wasn’t agreeing with nearly anything she was saying. But I had to be honest with myself and with her. I spoke truthfully, and I was calm and assertive..

 

I suspect she kind of sees me now as a know it all who is willing to push her around, even though she is not really acknowledging her part in it, as well, when she starts talking a bit of smack, as if she knows everything she’s talking about, when a bunch of the time, it’s not very clear whether she knows what she’s talking about or not.

 

So... I was thinking deeply a while ago, and thinking that the reason that it bothers me so much when she starts talking smack, is that I worry that eventually she will start talking smack about me, and to me, since the people that she is talking smack about are people that represent the thinking patterns of people I care about. Almost all of my family and friends, for that matter. I am anxious about those things, and it does bother me and worry me that she will start disliking me because of my political beliefs, therefore breaking up and abandoning me anyway. I do have a fear of abandonment… which is a whole other matter.

 

These are just little snippets of the conversation. There was tons more, but nothing any worse than that, at least from my end. Her end got a lot more hostile than any of these stories.

 

Truthfully, she sees me as a decent and levelheaded guy in almost every other situation, and has offered respect for the way I speak to people and children and even her. She has a lot of appreciation for that. So, if I did overstep my boundaries, it is only with political discussions and things that are heated that this happens. It’s not like I do it with every conversation.

 

Honest thoughts? Do you think I was being a jerk? I don’t really see it that way, but I’m trying to see it clearly.

[Whirling D]

Reinvent is expressing a lot of my own impressions here.

 

Were I to let go of a few filters, I'd say something like: I think you'd be better matched with someone you either (a) believed is genuinely as smart as you or (b) someone who truly doesn't care if you think you're smarter. In either of the above, I think, you'd find the need to be right, or have the last word, won't be so potent—either because you'd be able to stand down more often (choice a) or because you'd never have to (choice b).

 

Or you come to terms with the fact that part of what makes for a "deep connection" in you is pushing the buttons of someone who, by their very being, pushes yours in return. Because that's a lot of what I see here, in terms of how you two bond: a mutual lack of humility intertwining, coming to a head, leaving you each exhausted, and then resuming the dance when your strength is back. Whatever story about relationships you're trying to write with this one, that is the story of what it actually is, you know?

 

I think this is all very true. I don’t WANT to make her feel badly and push her buttons. Sometimes she just gets under my skin in these political debates. Sometimes. Obviously, I got under her skin. Maybe more than was commensurate with the situation.

 

I’d rather learn to understand my behavior than just to concede that we are not a good match. I’m still figuring it out.

[reinventmyself]

I didn't read the long response to defend your point. I got the gist of it, though

 

This ^^^is the perfect example of the problem you are having.

You fight to be right.

For that matter, you both do.

 

She seems to have a limit though, the mere fact she walks away and goes dark.

It's just a matter of time before she doesn't come back.

 

You on the other hand are still trying to prove your point and she's already left the room.